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Installing, Maintaining, and Extending the functionality of Mac OS 9
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News, Information & Feedback / Re: We're hiring (and have some ideas)!
« Last post by IIO on Yesterday at 11:56:33 PM »
Know of a thread from the forum that should be posted as a tutorial on the new website? Please post it below!
- disassembling PPC hardware
- optical upgrade options
- mass storage upgrade options
- silent fan upgrades
- GPU upgrade options
- CPU upgrade options
- MacOS9 system components upgrades (ATI, QT...)
- overview over programming languages
- filesharing and desktop remote options between OS9 and OS9, OSX PPC, intel, ARM, windows, linux
- the netboot project
- installing a complete protools system
- audio plug-in developement
- how to use a disassembler
- general OS9 / general hardware operations tutorial for beginners
- repairing PSUs
- bluebox, classic, emulators,
- attaching HFS+ in windows, linux, 10.15 - sonoma
- using OS9 on unsupported hardware (older as well as newer)
- everything about our mini OS
- mini specific upgrade options
- file handling for beginners (sit, zip, iso, toast, what is a resource fork, t/c, bndl/desktopdb)
- virtual PC & co, nostalgia
- a guide to open firmware
- display calibration
- multi monitor setup options
- everything about PCI breakout boxes
- apps that use dual processing and the dual processing extension
- OS9 cluster computing
- SSH, telnet options
- http, ftp and youtube options
- preserving software authoriations with the ASR method
- formatting options in OS9, 10.4 and 10.5, differences between O9 disk formatter versions
- backup and archival strategies, automatic backup and sychronisation software
- mini hardware - breeding and care (there´s already guides about thermal paste and others)
- scanner, printer, plotter, cutter, touch display, wacom etc options
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Development & Programming / Re: Debugging ATI drivers for Mac Mini
« Last post by joevt on Yesterday at 11:52:42 PM »What mode is the graphics card trying to use when the display goes black?
Some things to try:
- A modern display that isn't limited to 1920x1080 60Hz. I have a Acer XV273K 4K display which can accept anything up to 5K60 or 8K30 via DisplayPort. Not sure about HDMI/DVI though.
- Connect two displays - one display that is known to work so that you can see what timing is being attempted on the display that doesn't work.
- If you can't get two displays, then maybe a screen sharing app, so you can use another Mac to see what's happening when the display goes black on the first Mac.
- A custom EDID adapter like Dr HDMI 8K.
- A scan converter that can take an input and convert it to a different timing that is acceptable by the display.
- A HDMI capture device (USB or PCIe) - maybe it can accept what ever is being output.
- SwitchRes - I don't remember if the OS 9 version has custom timing options? Maybe it can at least disable modes that don't work with your display.
Regarding DVI to HDMI adapters : they are all single link even if they say dual link.
Noname VGA to HDMI USB-Powered Active Converter are terrible. They only work with some modes, produce blurry results, and loose some lines of pixels.
Nvidia 7800 or Nvidia Quadro FX4500 should be able to do 1440p60 or 4K30 using Dual Link DVI to DisplayPort adapter.
In the post by ELN that you linked, he mentions his PEF viewer and assembler python scripts. He said:
"To achieve this, I got sidetracked and wrote a single-file PowerPC assembler script (ppcasm.py) and PEF dump/rebuild script (cfmtool.py):"
https://github.com/elliotnunn/tbxi-patches/
I haven't tried them to verify that the disassemble -> assemble steps are deterministic/reversible, such that you can disassemble the assembled product to get an assembly that matches the first assembly (for example, my DumpPCIRom -> toke utilities can recreate the Open Firmware PCI option ROM from the Forth code generated by the original Open Firmware PCI option ROM). If they work, then that might be the simplest way to go. The labels generated by cfmtool could be altered to be order based instead of position based if they are not already.
A python script to rename all the labels in IDA is another option. Hopper can also do PEF but it's buggy.
Some things to try:
- A modern display that isn't limited to 1920x1080 60Hz. I have a Acer XV273K 4K display which can accept anything up to 5K60 or 8K30 via DisplayPort. Not sure about HDMI/DVI though.
- Connect two displays - one display that is known to work so that you can see what timing is being attempted on the display that doesn't work.
- If you can't get two displays, then maybe a screen sharing app, so you can use another Mac to see what's happening when the display goes black on the first Mac.
- A custom EDID adapter like Dr HDMI 8K.
- A scan converter that can take an input and convert it to a different timing that is acceptable by the display.
- A HDMI capture device (USB or PCIe) - maybe it can accept what ever is being output.
- SwitchRes - I don't remember if the OS 9 version has custom timing options? Maybe it can at least disable modes that don't work with your display.
Regarding DVI to HDMI adapters : they are all single link even if they say dual link.
Noname VGA to HDMI USB-Powered Active Converter are terrible. They only work with some modes, produce blurry results, and loose some lines of pixels.
Nvidia 7800 or Nvidia Quadro FX4500 should be able to do 1440p60 or 4K30 using Dual Link DVI to DisplayPort adapter.
In the post by ELN that you linked, he mentions his PEF viewer and assembler python scripts. He said:
"To achieve this, I got sidetracked and wrote a single-file PowerPC assembler script (ppcasm.py) and PEF dump/rebuild script (cfmtool.py):"
https://github.com/elliotnunn/tbxi-patches/
I haven't tried them to verify that the disassemble -> assemble steps are deterministic/reversible, such that you can disassemble the assembled product to get an assembly that matches the first assembly (for example, my DumpPCIRom -> toke utilities can recreate the Open Firmware PCI option ROM from the Forth code generated by the original Open Firmware PCI option ROM). If they work, then that might be the simplest way to go. The labels generated by cfmtool could be altered to be order based instead of position based if they are not already.
A python script to rename all the labels in IDA is another option. Hopper can also do PEF but it's buggy.
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New Member Welcome / Re: New as in finally registering
« Last post by Bolkonskij on Yesterday at 07:20:44 AM »Welcome! The dual 867 MDD is a nice machine - have fun with it and let us know what you intend to do with it! (Mac OS computers want to be used; not dust on shelves ;-) )
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Development & Programming / Re: Debugging ATI drivers for Mac Mini
« Last post by ssp3 on Yesterday at 03:10:02 AM »Re. disassembler - check PM.
Whether it can compare binaries, I don't think so, i.e. I don't see such option in the menus. It can produce dif file, but that one is probably based on changes one makes to the disassembled binary. I also have to admit that I only scratched the surface of this monster.
There is a VisualDiffer for OSX, but I don't think that the way it compares binaries is useful here. See attachment with both asms compared.
Then there's Araxis Merge, but that's not much better either.
I don't see that option.
MPW - never ever used it, don't have it installed. (I'm not a programmer).
The disassembler does support Python 2.7 ..
Whether it can compare binaries, I don't think so, i.e. I don't see such option in the menus. It can produce dif file, but that one is probably based on changes one makes to the disassembled binary. I also have to admit that I only scratched the surface of this monster.
There is a VisualDiffer for OSX, but I don't think that the way it compares binaries is useful here. See attachment with both asms compared.
Then there's Araxis Merge, but that's not much better either.
Quote
Can you change the assembly format to use order based names instead of offset based names?
I don't see that option.
MPW - never ever used it, don't have it installed. (I'm not a programmer).
Quote
I suppose one could easily create a script to rename offset based labels as order based labels.
The disassembler does support Python 2.7 ..
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Development & Programming / Re: Debugging ATI drivers for Mac Mini
« Last post by ssp3 on Yesterday at 02:05:23 AM »Did you say why you wanted to use a version other than f63 with OS 9?
In the hope that it will correctly enable graphic acceleration on "silent upgrade" G4 Minis (1,33 and 1,5 GHz models) and permit using larger displays with them.
Since ELN and darthNvader haven't been seen here for about a year, someone has to pick up the torch
If you haven't followed this topic, which is scattered across several threads, here are a couple of links to get you up to date:
Starting from this post:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=7048.msg54332#msg54332
This thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4987.0
Quote
What does "v9 ROM file for Mini" mean?
Is there an ndrv in Open Firmware? If so, what if you remove it before booting OS 9? Or replace it with a newer version before booting OS 9?
This post by ELN explains everything:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2408.msg37482#msg37482
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Development & Programming / Re: Debugging ATI drivers for Mac Mini
« Last post by joevt on May 01, 2024, 10:02:39 PM »Did you say why you wanted to use a version other than f63 with OS 9?
What does "v9 ROM file for Mini" mean?
Is there an ndrv in Open Firmware? If so, what if you remove it before booting OS 9? Or replace it with a newer version before booting OS 9?
What does "v9 ROM file for Mini" mean?
Is there an ndrv in Open Firmware? If so, what if you remove it before booting OS 9? Or replace it with a newer version before booting OS 9?
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Development & Programming / Re: Debugging ATI drivers for Mac Mini
« Last post by joevt on May 01, 2024, 09:57:34 PM »What disassembler did you use? IDA? Which version?
The assembly listings show the imported libraries and functions as expected:
VideoServicesLib, NameRegistryLib, PCILib, DriverServicesLib
No unsupported libraries appear to be included. version f100 adds AbsoluteDeltaToDuration but that's not a problem since CIncludes shows that API as going back to Mac OS 8.6.
I don't see a device description, just "TheDriverDescription" as expected. The only difference in TheDriverDescription is the version number changed from 63 to 100.
Comparing the assembly listings would require renaming all the unnamed labels since they have different offsets or positions between version f63 and f100. In MPW you could create scripted menu items with command key short cuts to do the renaming of each label for you. It would work like this: select the label on the left and the label on the right. Choose a new common name for the labels. Have it verify that the new name is unused in both files, then have it rename all occurrences in the old version and the new version and re-compare. I did that with Open Firmware drivers. Open Firmware is different since the labels are order based (1,2,3,4...), rather than offset based, so that when renaming a label in Open Firmware, you could have it automatically rename all labels after that by incrementing there order number that is included in the label name thus greatly reducing the number of renames required.
Is there a modern utility to do a similar compare/rename? Does IDA have a compare binaries option? Can you change the assembly format to use order based names instead of offset based names? I suppose one could easily create a script to rename offset based labels as order based labels.
The assembly listings show the imported libraries and functions as expected:
VideoServicesLib, NameRegistryLib, PCILib, DriverServicesLib
No unsupported libraries appear to be included. version f100 adds AbsoluteDeltaToDuration but that's not a problem since CIncludes shows that API as going back to Mac OS 8.6.
I don't see a device description, just "TheDriverDescription" as expected. The only difference in TheDriverDescription is the version number changed from 63 to 100.
Comparing the assembly listings would require renaming all the unnamed labels since they have different offsets or positions between version f63 and f100. In MPW you could create scripted menu items with command key short cuts to do the renaming of each label for you. It would work like this: select the label on the left and the label on the right. Choose a new common name for the labels. Have it verify that the new name is unused in both files, then have it rename all occurrences in the old version and the new version and re-compare. I did that with Open Firmware drivers. Open Firmware is different since the labels are order based (1,2,3,4...), rather than offset based, so that when renaming a label in Open Firmware, you could have it automatically rename all labels after that by incrementing there order number that is included in the label name thus greatly reducing the number of renames required.
Is there a modern utility to do a similar compare/rename? Does IDA have a compare binaries option? Can you change the assembly format to use order based names instead of offset based names? I suppose one could easily create a script to rename offset based labels as order based labels.
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New Member Welcome / Re: New as in finally registering
« Last post by Knezzen on May 01, 2024, 10:12:49 AM »Welcome to Mac OS 9 Lives! 
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New Member Welcome / Re: New as in finally registering
« Last post by Jubadub on May 01, 2024, 08:09:29 AM »Welcome! I agree, the MDD is definitely the Mac OS sweetspot... Definitely my favorite machine in general. Then again, all of those machines are just really great... there is no going wrong with them.
Hopefully you enjoy your stay here!
Hopefully you enjoy your stay here!