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« Last post by blaylok on September 13, 2023, 02:03:51 AM »
Hi everyone, thank you all for your advice, sharing of experience and suggestions thus far, it is much appreciated. Ok, so first I tried as Diehard suggested and knocked the CPU Accelerator back to the stock speed (867GHz) that my Quicksilver came with before I added the OWC Mercury Extreme G4 1.4ghz upgrade card. Unfortunately I had the same result - activity in the Delta panel vu meter while audio is being played (loaded groove agent vst in Cubase - hit play on default patch) but no sound at the Delta 44 breakout box outputs 1 + 2, switch to outputs 3 + 4 same result - No sound. To note, before booting Cubase I removed all ASIO drivers in the Cubase ASIO folder and made sure that the Delta 44 ASIO driver was the only one in there. After a little bit of fiddling around with settings in the Delta panel to try and obtain sound at the breakout box outputs the quicksilver goes into a freeze response (unable to move mouse/cursor and the only way out is a hard reset  Ok, so after that I decided to try as Gary suggested and revert the CPU back to the stock 867GHz unit. Did that, fired the quicksilver back up..(Cubase loaded same as above - groove agent vst)...but unfortunately the same result - initially no sound at either of the outputs whichever I select in the Delta panel - then after some 'fiddling' with settings both in Cubase and the Delta panel - the quicksilver goes into a freeze response that can only be resolved by a hard reset. Not really sure where to go next Thanks again everyone Kind regards, blaylok
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« Last post by rvense on September 12, 2023, 10:09:36 PM »
Nobody here cares - this forum is about Macs that are 20 years old or more. Good luck though.
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« Last post by mcjagger on September 12, 2023, 03:23:22 PM »
Hello,
I appreciate the post!
Forgive my naivety, but how could this work with an M1 Mac? I tried the above but to no avail.
Thank you in advance.
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« Last post by GaryN on September 11, 2023, 10:25:14 PM »
I sense some frustration here, so I'll just respond to a few small comments rather than write another chapter.
you guys do not understand that the installation of multiple drivers at once, so that you can change the IO device during work, is one of the three core features of ASIO.
I think we understand it quite well, thank you. I even understand that you may have a number of different interfaces connected simultaneously either thru USB or with a belly full of PCI cards, personally, I don't. I have 12 channels of Delta I/O and that's 2 PCI cards right there which is clearly enough for me. I very seldom need or use more than the 8 in the Delta 1010. I have gone to 11 or 12 IN recording a group but mama don't like that in da house, that's just me and I digress. this is why it cant be that it does not work at all, even if that is your personal experience.
I was going to compose a witty response to this non-sequitur , on the order of "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" but I changed my mind. Really. I did. Even if you're seeing and reading this, I didn't write it. It simply can't be. and gary´s prophecy that a computer will immediately crash when soundmanager ASIO is installed is pure nonsense, which is not getting better when you try to "explain" it to me.  (though the explanation has yet to come)
I am pretty sure I didn't say that. I did say that there can be situations where the Sound Manager ASIO will bump heads with a 3rd party one under some circumstances and that can, as with so many other Old-Mac OS conflicts, cause a hang that cannot be cured with less than a forced restart, the Command-Period move being ineffective. soundmanger itself is also completely unreleated to the OPs problem with the delta.
That's actually almost certainly true. and have you never had the need to run, say, cubase and sonicworx or maxmsp and peak at the same time and listen to it over the same speakers?
that is what ASIO is for: that you can use different interfaces at once.
Now I'm totally confused. I load and have open multiple apps like SVP and Sonicworx and Peak regularly. I can't remember needing to run them at the same time (simultaneously?) thru the same speakers, although I'm sure that if my Mac would actually enable me to do that, the result would be quite unusual for sure. I do switch back and forth at times from DAW to editor where SVP has the Delta 1010 and Peak has the Delta 44 OR Sound Manager. BUT, I don't do that often. I have a large console with lots of inputs and only the Deltas inside my Mac… no stack of external interfaces. But hey, everybody's workflow is different. It may be convenient for you that you "can use different interfaces at once" but that's not "what ASIO is for". ASIO exists to make high-quality audio handling possible by shortening the data path it has to unnecessarily travel and free up those clock cycles to do other things which vastly improves the overall timing - especially on PC's but it really benefits old Macs as well. I'm pretty sure you already know that and we're just having minor misunderstandings here. I should tell you that ever since getting the modified-for-Sonnet Delta ASIO driver, they have happily lived in the ASIO folders snuggled up to the Sound Manager drivers without issue, just as they should. I must also insist however, that was NOT the case with the original M-Audio ones. ssp3 also testifies to the ASIO oddities that are possible:My 2 cents..
There are several ASIO SoundManager drivers out there. I have two. One is from 1996, the other from 1997. On TiBook 667 SpectraFoo analyzer crashes with Error 10 with earlier one, but works fine with 1997 version, so it's worth re-checking what version you have in the ASIO folder.
That's why (if you read my last post, I'm leaning away from ASIO conflicts as the cause of all this and toward the "ASIO driver doesn't like the CPU upgrade" possibility. DieHard notes the 7455 doesn't "need" a firmware patch but theoretically, neither should my Sonnet 7450's. And yet……
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« Last post by DieHard on September 11, 2023, 07:22:32 PM »
the content of the folder is completely irrelevant. Not a correct statement with the Mini G4 why would that happen? and it did not happen here. here we only have a nonworking delta Yes, I am off topic, just giving sugestions, in case it's a wrong version of the needed ASIO for the Delta From Sargie... Sorry... my schedule has been crazy and I am traveling... So I haven't had too much time to try things.
However:
I followed DieHards advice and Cubase is now running!
I am not an expert with Cubase... but is there anything you'd like me to test to see how well this interface performs with the Mini from a DAW perspective?
I've got VST's playing via Midi and it seems to work just fine so far.
Best,
Sarge Dear IIO, I am simply trying to give the newbies with OS9 and ASIO some guidelines from real world experiences; in the scenario above (with the mini), the "moving the unused ASIO drivers" worked because the stock install of CuBase will attempt to load the soundmanager ASIO and crash without letting the user switch it to the correct one. You are a great programmer (I love black and white) and you are right that 90% of the time it's a non-issue since the Charlie crew only had to deal with units made for OS9 and the built-in mac audio will normally allow CuBase to load and then you can switch the ASIO to your audio interface. In addition, I have had Host apps crash that do not like a certain version of the ASIO driver (the M-Audio 2496 gives 3 different ASIO drivers... V1, V2, and Metro and you have to guess which one your Host likes). So I also use this trick to test each ASIO driver separately to find the best ASIO for each app. Again, I am not advocating deleting anything, so I don't get the adverse reaction to just have the tested good ones in the ASIO folder and save all the others elsewhere. Sarge might have given up, if I did not give him that troubleshooting approach... just saying if it is not required, dont install it, and you have one possible error source less. so far, so good! Again, just guidelines since the ASIO driver might have to be "manually" dragged anyway and may have more that 1 version. You are assuming the user knows which one is required... remember each app has it's own ASIO folder, that is NOT shared, you may have to copy the thing to 4 or 5 or more folders and use a different version depending on the host app. Just trying to give a little depth to those who don't have your background and may not know how it works in OS9. but it is not us who decide which output devices somebody else wants to use, he can use what he wants. I am the ASIO God, they will use only what I tell them.... only kidding
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« Last post by ssp3 on September 11, 2023, 07:10:25 PM »
My 2 cents..
There are several ASIO SoundManager drivers out there. I have two. One is from 1996, the other from 1997. On TiBook 667 SpectraFoo analyzer crashes with Error 10 with earlier one, but works fine with 1997 version, so it's worth re-checking what version you have in the ASIO folder.
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« Last post by IIO on September 11, 2023, 05:41:45 PM »
OK, so I gotta kind of have to disagree with you on this statement... yes the statement "they simply have nothing to do with each other" is 100% correct; However, like show on the mini, Mac OS 9 apps (like Cubase, Nuendo, etc) love to grab the "Soundmanager ASIO" if there is not a previously saved ASIO in the preference file.... meaning, if it the 1st time launching the App, it is a great idea to ONLY HAVE THE CORRECT ASIO driver, by itself, in the ASIO folder.
the content of the folder is completely irrelevant. you can also remove all drivers and cubase will still start properly. it will correctly tell you that the chosen driver can not be used or found and switch back to soundmanager - or turns off audio features. you guys do not understand that the installation of multiple drivers at once, so that you can change the IO device during work, is one of the three core features of ASIO. this is why it cant be that it does not work at all, even if that is your personal experience. If the host DAW crashes immediately why would that happen? and it did not happen here. here we only have a nonworking delta. then you cannot select and then save the correct ASIO driver, and hence no saved preference for the ASIO driver why would that happen? why would it be a problem? if the prefs file has nothing selected, you can select things next time. if the interface is missing, the driver will not be selectable. if a driver is missing, you can select the interface. that is basically what the ASIO folder is about. it is best NOT to leave unused ASIO drivers in your application's main ASIO folder if it is not required, dont install it, and you have one possible error source less. so far, so good! but it is not us who decide which output devices somebody else wants to use, he can use what he wants. and gary´s prophecy that a computer will immediately crash when soundmanager ASIO is installed is pure nonsense, which is not getting better when you try to "explain" it to me. (though the explanation has yet to come) Many interfaces will let you route the OS "system sound" to the interface soundmanger itself is also completely unreleated to the OPs problem with the delta. and have you never had the need to run, say, cubase and sonicworx or maxmsp and peak at the same time and listen to it over the same speakers? that is what ASIO is for: that you can use different interfaces at once. the stoopid system sounds should be turned off then, of course. they only make the finder GUI slower anway.
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« Last post by GaryN on September 11, 2023, 04:24:37 PM »
Thank you Gary, I managed to get it sorted in the end. I really appreciate the advice.
I plugged it in to another machine running OSX, wiped the drive, installed the OS9 drivers and then copied the install back on to it. Works perfect now.
Except my B&W G3 randomly decided to take 20 minutes to boot. And then it started booted fine. Because you know, B&W G3 
Happy to help. If you continue to have boot delay, try a PRAM reset: https://www.macworld.com/article/224955/how-to-reset-a-macs-nvram-pram-and-smc.html
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« Last post by rare on September 11, 2023, 01:20:44 PM »
Thank you Gary, I managed to get it sorted in the end. I really appreciate the advice. I plugged it in to another machine running OSX, wiped the drive, installed the OS9 drivers and then copied the install back on to it. Works perfect now. Except my B&W G3 randomly decided to take 20 minutes to boot. And then it started booted fine. Because you know, B&W G3
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« Last post by peeperpc on September 11, 2023, 04:21:40 AM »
In both of these cases, you guys are exhibiting the exact symptoms of a cable select (CS) issue. There is a small difference in the ATA parallel ribbon cable when used for CS. The symptoms you describe are exactly what you get when you set a drive to master or slave and use a ribbon made for CS. If you use the original cable, your drive must be able to recognize it. It must have a CS jumper setting.
This is why some SATA bridge adapters work on the QS and MDD and some don't. Most of them only have "master" and "slave" settings.
There are three solutions - which is two more than you usually get… You can:
1) Get SATA bridge(s) that have CS capability. Yes, they will cost maybe 10 bucks more than the little 3-buck green wonders.
2) Buy (a) plain old" IDE cable(s) to replace the Mac CS one(s).
3) Modify your Mac CS cable back into a "regular" IDE. Actually, Don't do this! If you must use a master/slave setup, buy a new plain IDE cable.
I remember getting some flak from people a while ago when I said something like "Geez! What's the big deal? I bought the red Startech bridge and I've had NO issues at all" Apparently, the ease with which I parted with $15 instead of $3 made me some kind of haughty elite looking down my nose at the poor masses! Rather than feed the beast by pointing out that they could evidently afford the much larger amounts to buy SATA SSD's and a $15 bridge was only a fraction of that, I just let it go. Then, I watched while people went 'round and 'round literally for weeks buying, testing, mostly discarding and endlessly discussing which ones worked (almost none of them) and even more recently, which ones are faster then others. (They're all pretty much the same)
Pass up Starbucks just once and you'll have the price of a great (probably the best) bridge still in your pocket.
Note: That was a while ago. I see that they're now up to $20-25. You may have to forgo Starbucks twice…
Basic CS info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_ATA#Cable_select
Identifying/modifying IDE cables: http://unixwiz.net/techtips/ide-cable-select.html
The Startech bridge: https://www.startech.com/en-us/hdd/ide2sat2
I just replaced the faulty adapter with another "Bribge" adapter and there is no problem since. I would buy the StarTech's adapters only when I want to connect two drives on the same cable and boot OS 9 from one of them. Because shipping from the US (or UK) to my place is even pricier than the product. UK's shipping used to be very friendly, BTW.
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