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[supernova777]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Power-Mac-G4-1-0-GHz-SINGLE-CPU-MDD-17-Apple-Display-160-GIG-Hard-Drive-/151262411429?pt=Apple_Desktops&hash=item2337f13aa5

heres one of them i found one bay just now
can see the single fw800 port under the 2 fw400 ports..

[supernova777]

if we are able to do the fw800 g4.. wouldnt we then be able to do the same thing on like.. the g4 mac mini's?  or the later powerbook g4s?
maybe not

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_9
good list here
ive never actually checked this page before

[Jakl]

Well peoples no go - no system folder with the ROMs that I have booted into macos9 on the FW800 - I installed four system macos9 versions with the HD wiped clean each time with Norton utilities Wipe Info.

No go guys with 9.5.1, 9.7.1, 10.2.1, install CD of macos9 with version 8.9.1. none worked.

Anymore suggestions?

[supernova777]

Well peoples no go - no system folder with the ROMs that I have booted into macos9 on the FW800 - I installed four system macos9 versions with the HD wiped clean each time with Norton utilities Wipe Info.

No go guys with 9.5.1, 9.7.1, 10.2.1, install CD of macos9 with version 8.9.1. none worked.

Anymore suggestions?

wasnt the whole point to initiaize the drive in os9 on a working g4 everytime
to put the os9 drivers on the disk.. they said that the fw800 is incapable of putting the os9 driver on the drive if u wipe the drive on the fw800...
wait are u saying u used norton in target disk mode to the other g4?
and u arent using the rom  that they said worked..

[Jakl]

this what I did:
target disk mode from macos9 from a mdd g4 fw400 - wiped HD of FW800 computer using Norton Utilities 6.0.3. Booted into Tiger from mdd g4 fw400 computer and Target Disk Mode reformatted drive with OS9 drivers and installed MDD400 OS9General(then booted) - MDD800 OS9General(then booted) - System folders with different ROMS(then booted).

- The computer only booted up to the question mark on the boot screen - thats it.

Repeated process everytime totally erased HD to make sure nothing was on it then installed macos9 drivers.

The last try I used a Digital Audio G4 and target disk mode to install macos9.2.1 from the CD installer only because the MDD FW400 would not install it from that particular CD. Still no luck.

I still haven't tried MacOS ROMs 9.6.1 and 9.8.1 which have been known to work. If you have them I'll try.

This supports what I was thinking ages ago that there must be a ROM on the motherboard for OS9 to use to boot into. It is not on the CPU because you can use a FW800 CPU on a FW400 board and boot macos9.

[supernova777]

This supports what I was thinking ages ago that there must be a ROM on the motherboard for OS9 to use to boot into. It is not on the CPU because you can use a FW800 CPU on a FW400 board and boot macos9.

right, i get this mode of thinking..
but is there some type of bios area on the g4 motherboard?
that isnt wiped with a PRAM reset...

perhaps its actually the openfirmware version itself that is disabling the boot?
there might be little point to make it work if it took replacing some chips on the fw800 board with chips from a fw400
but what if the openfirmware programming can be copied from a fw400 to fw800..?

where else could this code be disabling the boot.. clearly like u said. the problem is on the motherboard itself..
some type of programming exists to disable this (purposefully by apple)



but is there a way to revert the openfirmware to the same that is on the fw400 machine?
perhaps many have tried this and failed in the years between then  + now
but perhaps some have succeeded (which would be the reason for this post from "Peter" above, or it could be he is just a troll? LOL)

[supernova777]

this what I did:
target disk mode from macos9 from a mdd g4 fw400 - wiped HD of FW800 computer using Norton Utilities 6.0.3. Booted into Tiger from mdd g4 fw400 computer and Target Disk Mode reformatted drive with OS9 drivers and installed MDD400 OS9General(then booted) - MDD800 OS9General(then booted) - System folders with different ROMS(then booted).

- The computer only booted up to the question mark on the boot screen - that

from what i gathered from the original post, i would be moving the harddrive physically from a fw400 rather then using targetdisk mode
becasue targetdisk mode is governed by the openfirmware right?

my brain would put the process like this:
-new hard drive installed into existing mac os 9.2.2 install on a 9 booting mdd
-intialize with drive setup
-copy all system folders etc
-reboot to the new drive (startup disk change) to ensure that it works
-reboot back to the original boot drive on the 9 mac.. (startup disk change back)
-shutdown + remove the hard drive that has been confirmed 'bootable'
-install hard drive on its own as the only drive in the fw800 mac
-boot up fw800 machine with option key to see if it sees the partition/drive

whatever it is that stops it.. its probably the exact same on the powermac g5!

[Jakl]

I have tried this ages ago and if I can recall same problem happens.
I recall I am revisiting this boot problem - never got it before maybe my
last hope that it may happen this time around...

[supernova777]

I have tried this ages ago and if I can recall same problem happens.
I recall I am revisiting this boot problem - never got it before maybe my
last hope that it may happen this time around...

probably yes:(
i bet this is programmed in the code of the openfirmware
u would have to be an "embedded systems" programmer
or learn openfirmware language to try to circumvent!

do powermac g5's run off the same openfirmware?
we probably wont be able to fix this
but it would be super cool to see it being hacked some day..
maybe 30 years from now someone will crack:D hahaha

[Jakl]

perhaps its actually the openfirmware version itself that is disabling the boot?
there might be little point to make it work if it took replacing some chips on the fw800 board with chips from a fw400
but what if the openfirmware programming can be copied from a fw400 to fw800..?
[/quote]

Maybe the cue in the open firmware is the FW800 port on the G4 and G5 models? As soon as that is detected the switch happens - question mark? Who knows?

[supernova777]

Maybe the cue in the open firmware is the FW800 port on the G4 and G5 models? As soon as that is detected the switch happens - question mark? Who knows?

my thoughts are that the fw800 port doesnt actually stop it. its jsut a coincidence i think.. i mean apple made the decision to disable this..
i highly doubt that the fw800 port is the thing actually stopping it due to a physical incompatibility.. because there are plenty of fw800 adapter cards that work in os9
albeit at fw400 speed due to no software driver/support libraries or whatever .. they disabled it becaue they wanted to.. plain + Simple.otehrwise all g5s would be able to boot os9.
i guess we will never know if there is truly a hardware reason why they did this. or if they just did it because they felt like it..
i guarantee u it was steve jobs order to make this happen so that "osx could flourish" .. well ok i cant guarantee it but i strongly believe that it was a tactical strategic move with no real hardware incompatibility! this decision must have come at the end of all the hard work they put into building osx from ground up.. they probably got to a point that they were happy with it + They literally forced everyone to adopt it as the new standard.

[Jakl]

Can anyone show me a FW400 only mac that is not macos9 bootable?
Or do we know of any G4's that do not boot Macos9 and that does not have a FW800 port?

I think the FW800 port must be built into the motherboard for this openfirmaware switch to happen
and/or maybe even USB2 as well because none were supported in macos9.

So if a mac had FW800 &/or USB2 then macos9 was not bootable.

There maybe an enabler floating around somewhere that overrides this - I hope.
Maybe it's sitting there on the mac desktop invisible and we just cannot see it...
Or is there a way in macos9 to show invisible files?

It would be great to be able to follow the code at boot. Anyway...

[MacTron]

You should try the "Mythical" Custer ROM (includes Mac Os ROM 9.8.1):
https://www.adrive.com/public/Fgb3Ge/MacOs922custer.img.sit

[Jakl]

Tried the MacOs922custer image - error in expansion
"The Mount Image operation did not complete. (130)
The checksum is invalid.

[MacTron]

Tried the MacOs922custer image - error in expansion
"The Mount Image operation did not complete. (130)
The checksum is invalid.

File fixed!
Sorry for the inconvenience...

[supernova777]

ahh that sucks!  i was all excited to see  new post to see if it worked or not 

[lokki]

i will try this as well since i now fixed my mddfw800 (power supply was missing 5v)

i think it is important to have a harddisk with osx in the mdd as well. just a feeling....

@mactron: i can't download the mythical thingy, file was removed :-(

[MacTron]

Sorry. I'd forgotten to enable the share option ...

https://www.adrive.com/public/syXMEV/MacOs922custer.img.sit

[lokki]

no problem. i am downloading now...

[Jakl]

Thank you very much for that Mactron - have installed it onto the HD of my FW800
still on boot screen - option pressed - it didn't show up as a bootable disk.
I have just installed 10.2.4 on a separate partition to see if will work in classic and then
see if it will boot up.

Still early in the testing - hopefully something may come up to do that may make it work.
We''ll have to wait and see.