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[visibleprism]

Hey all, spent many hours diving into this last night and like many of you found that the method above is not working! However, fortunately I was able to get the interface functioning again in OS 9 and will go through the steps I took. Still figuring out the “method” to this, but I think the important parts of the process are different than what I thought initially, as @aBc suggested.

Here goes:

First, I started by installing the most recent version of the driver supported on OS X 10.4.11 on the Pismo, which is 1.9.3, available here: https://m-audio.com/support/download/drivers/firewire-osx-1.9.3. After installing this update, doing the usual power down/connect 410/reboot cycle, the firmware now listed the 2007 version that I'd seen before.

I continued with the steps outlined in the first post by then moving over to the Windows XP machine, where I uninstalled the driver completely and reinstalled from disc. This time around, I found that after the shutdown/connect/reboot sequence on the XP machine, the firmware was still showing the 2007 date! And of course this meant that I wasn't able to get it functioning in OS 9 when I tried there afterward.

At this point I thought that I might no longer be able to downgrade it again, but continued experimenting. Initially I focused on the XP machine, trying the earliest version of the driver I could find (found on the Internet Archive:  http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/drivers/fw410_1007_web.exe). Upgrading, downgrading, making sure all temporary install files were deleted, checking system folders, etc. did nothing and I was still seeing a consistent 2007 firmware.

Then I noticed something. On the initial reboot after install of the drivers with the 410 connected (having last been connected to the Pismo in 10.4 for the firmware upgrade) after a 5min+ wait for all the startup programs to load driver install prompts appeared for the M-Audio FW Bootloader and M-Audio FW 410 interface (see images 1 and 2 attached).  After completely uninstalling the drivers, deleting temporary files, double checking system folders etc. for any trace of the previously installed drivers, reinstalling from disc (with 410 disconnected), shutdown/connect 410/reboot, I only got the driver install prompt for the M-Audio FW 410 interface driver and no prompt for the Bootloader.

I spent a while trying to see if I’d missed any residual files related to the bootloader, but couldn’t find any, and then had a thought: maybe the firmware is triggered to load specifically when switching from a Mac machine to a Windows machine (or vice-versa)? I tried connecting the 410 back to the Pismo, which still had the 1.9.3 software installed, and then reconnecting it to the XP machine, and to my surprise after booting up the prompt for the Bootloader driver appeared!

This still didn’t solve the problem, though, so I started retracing my steps. As mentioned above (I think by @aBc again) I’d tried installing older drivers on the OS X side of the Pismo to no avail (or so I thought). So I booted it back up, uninstalled 1.9.3 and installed version 1.2 build 1078 from 2004 (available at the Internet Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20040629172859/http://www.m-audio.com:80/images/global/drivers/FW_OSX_build_1078.dmg), which is the version I’d tried previously. Did the usual shutdown/connect/reboot, and when I opened the FW 410 software, I was met with the message “Please connect an M-Audio FireWire device to this Mac” (see image 3). Which was odd, as it was connected and powered on.

However, I noticed that though it was powered on, the power light was blinking rapidly, which if I remember correctly from the manual indicates that the firmware is not loaded. I figured this meant that if I rebooted into OS 9 now, the interface might be able to load the correct firmware using the Firewire 410 v1.0.1 build3 software that was still installed. And, after a quick reboot, it did! It's now fully functional in OS 9 again with the same firmware version seen in the first post.

So re: what I was thinking above about reloading the firmware on switching OS, I’m wondering if the switch to XP and then to the old 1.2 driver on OS X 10.4 is what enables this non-loaded firmware state, or if it’s possible to achieve the same by just uninstalling the newer 1.9.3 driver in OS X and then installing 1.2. And/or if the inability for it to load the firmware has to do with some components of the M-Audio software being incompatible with OS X 10.4.11 since it was released prior to 10.4. Definitely some continued exploration to do here.

Anyway, will keep testing this to see if it can be boiled down to a simple set of steps. Hope this is helpful and actually works for you all this time around!

[aBc]

Thanks vp!
I think I got it.
Will take some time to filter it
all down into something understandable.

BUT...
when Windoze Hardware Weezerd
axes if you wanna install software automatically
I just canceled that and shut it all down.

Then to the Mac for more F-U-N!

More to follow.

[DieHard]

Thanks vp!
I think I got it.
Will take some time to filter it

Glad you got it... my FW410 just made the trip to eBay, either that or target practice...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/134859644306

[aBc]

Ahh DieHard, keep it!

Using Windows XP Pro, I used the fw410_10013_cd.exe installer found on our M-Audio hybrid disc. And followed the procedures as visibleprism described above except for canceling that installation of some additional software that the Hardware Wizard wanted to install from “a specific location”. In effect I suppose that I did not complete the installation (like the C:\Windows\System32\fw410cpl file mentioned by DieHard). I just stopped it and shut it down, removed the FW410 and went downstairs to the Mac realm.

Then on a Quicksilver running OS 10.4.6 and OS 9.2.2 (a dual partitioned single HD) I used the Firewire 410 v1.0.1 build3 driver (also on our hybrid disc download) on the the OS 9.2 partition. And achieved DieHard’s previously noted no-go result.

       

Of course I moved on quickly from there…
Right to attempted installation on the Tiger partition.

Unlike visibleprism, I first used the FW410_OSX_build_1054.dmg (also on our hybrid disc) and then… updated that with the FireWire_OSX_1_5_3.zip downloaded from the M-Audio website. (I’ll try to attach that below.) *Visibleprism used 1.9.3 - but he’s running OS 10.4.11 instead of 10.4.6 like me.


              

And then ended up with this:



From there, I booted back into OS 9.2 and then a big surprise! (No firmware or bootloader present before!)



I’ve not tested anything in or out, or through it yet… but all seems in order and functional at this “early stage”. (sic)
Somehow, I think that the OS X installation is / was the key in all of this. Either before Windows as per visibleprism
or afterwards, as I somehow stumbled upon.

And yes, I have spent a "few" hours on this.

Hey @Mardeec, you want this M-Audio FW410 back?
Hope that DieHard’s asking an absolute fortune for his.

Someone contact Andre Solomoko!

***I also removed a SIIG FW400/800 + USB card from the Quicksilver before success.

GREAT BIG Thanks to visibleprism! 

[DieHard]

I will give it one more go when I have time.

I'll ignore XP and go straight to the OS X 10.4 install, then try 9

[aBc]

I'll ignore XP and go straight to the OS X 10.4 install, then try 9

IF yours is still in that no-go 9 state, it might just work. Hope so.

[AtariMan]

Hi all. I found a solution with this map. For the card to work in Mac OS 9.2.2, you need to return the firmware. This can be done in Mac OS X 10.3 by installing the FireWire OSX 1.2.4 driver. Only this driver allows you to return the firmware to 2003. Once you do this, you can install the FWUni OS9 1.0.4 b42 driver. Next, turn off the computer, connect the interface and that’s it, Mac OS 9 works. Good luck to all.

[AtariMan]

I forgot to say that a computer with Windows XP is not needed.

[Protools5LEGuy]

Thanks vp!
I think I got it.
Will take some time to filter it

Glad you got it... my FW410 just made the trip to eBay, either that or target practice...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/134859644306

Your unit came with M Powered protools so it is modern. Maybe on the more modern ones it cant be made... I dunno. Lets find out

I want to extrapolate this method for my Firewire Audiophile that came without PT and cant be seen in Mac OS 9 and was last used on El Capitan

[smilesdavis]

This was my first soundcard when i started out bck then on winxp

Id luuurve this to work on os9

[turbo.d]

Hi there,

I found this topic and it has been very helpful to me, as I also had this issue with my M-audio firewire Audiophile unit.

I got it done with the following software downloaded from the M-audio site:
FireWire Audiophile    1.6 Build 1174 (Mac)    11-14-2005

The OS used is 10.4.11

Here are my steps. I connected it to my machine and saw it had firmware 2007-05-04, bootloader 2003-10-06

I did a clean install from the OS and installed the M-audio package, turned the computer off and attached the M-audio device. Then booted the computer. It took a while and saw some different flashing patterns from the LED's

after this was done, the leds turned off, I confirmed in system profiler that the unit was detected on the firewire port.

I then opened the M-audio control panel and saw my unit had changed it's firmware.
It now reads: firmware 2003-10-24, which is almost the same as the bootloader.
The driver reads 1.6

I booted the machine in OS9, and installed the FWUni_OS9_1.0.4_b42_install software.
The system detected the unit perfectly .
panel: 1.0 , driver: 1.0 and bootloader and firmware reads the same as in OS 10.4.11


Then I tried it on a different machine with MacOS 10.5.8, but the software 1.6 doesn't detect the connected unit. I therefore tried a later software version. The 1.8 history overview stated a firmware update. I then choose for 1.7,  but as soon as I installed that the machine detected the unit and also forced a firmware update. As soon as this message popped I switched the M-audio unit off, hoping it didn't ruin the firmware. Unfortunately damage was allready done and the unit became useless again.

I then decided to complete the firmware action and confirm that the unit itself was still working. (and it did, but now on firmware 2006-04-09)

I then repeated my former steps. I used the software uninstaller from driver 1.8.4 as it stated that it would completely remove previous installs.

I then re-installed driver 1.6 and repeated the steps. And it worked again.
My unit is now back in working state in OS 10.4 and OS9.2.1 / OS9.2.2

The important bits:
MacOS 10.4.11 as the maximum
FireWire Audiophile    1.6 Build 1174 (Mac)    11-14-2005
FWUni_OS9_1.0.4_b42_install

Install the software on MacOS10.4 with the unit not connected. Turn the computer off, connect the 6pin firewire to the computer and the M-Audio unit and turn it on

Let the computer boot and when the lights on the M-audio unit stop flashing open the control panel and verify firmware version.

Thanks a lot.
regards
Marcel

[aBc]

Thanks @turbo.d for the above info on the M-Audio
Audiophile. I modified your post with Bold Blue text
in order to differentiate between the M-Audio Firewire
410 units (original subject of this thread) and the
Audiophile units. Further comments or questions
regarding the Audiophile may warrant creation of
another topic here?

Still, an important contribution, as both (related) units
represent a low-cost approach for OS 9 audio
interfaces. Perhaps, and especially in regards to the
G4 Mac Minis now running OS 9? (Even as no one
has yet reported successfully using either with the
G4 Mac Minis, yet.)

Maybe there’s a challenge for someone?
(New topic, new thread?)

[turbo.d]

No problem for modifying my post. I found the drivers for the firewire410 and for the firewire audiophile were the same and I found some cross references during my search.

I discovered the issue in MacOS9 a few years ago already, but couldn't figure-out what the solution would be. The lesson I learned is that the downgrade isn't possible with MacOS 10.5.8 which I mainly use on my G4 MDD.

For this specific issue I pulled my G4-AGP graphics from storage and partitioned the drive 3ways. MacOS 10.4.11 , MacOS10.2.8 and MacOS9.2.1  This setup gave me the flexibilty to test.

I use the M-Audio unit since 2012 to record Vinyl in my computer.
I now want to explore my creativity with making music and therefore I like to also have it working in MacOS 9.2

[9chang]

Using the method turob.d showed, I was also able to use FireWire Audiophile on OS9. I'm very grateful. 

The key point is FireWire_OSX_1_6_Build_1174. You found it well!

FireWire_OSX_1_6_Build_1174 is available on the M-AUDIO official website, but it can be a bit hard to find, so I'll provide a link.
https://m-audio.com/support/download/drivers/firewire-osx-1.6-build-1174

Mac mini 2005
OS 10.4.11
OS 9.2.2
Dual boot

I also have a UA-25 and FA-101, but since I only need audio output and MIDI on OS9 with my Mac mini, I plan to use the simple and compact FireWire Audiophile with FireWire connection. The fact that it has RCA terminals makes it easy to use.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank turbo.d, visibleprism, everyone who provided information about this issue, those who supported the OS9 boot on Mac mini, and the site administrator. 

[turbo.d]

Using the method turob.d showed, I was also able to use FireWire Audiophile on OS9. I'm very grateful. 

The key point is FireWire_OSX_1_6_Build_1174. You found it well!

FireWire_OSX_1_6_Build_1174 is available on the M-AUDIO official website, but it can be a bit hard to find, so I'll provide a link.
https://m-audio.com/support/download/drivers/firewire-osx-1.6-build-1174

Mac mini 2005
OS 10.4.11
OS 9.2.2
Dual boot

I also have a UA-25 and FA-101, but since I only need audio output and MIDI on OS9 with my Mac mini, I plan to use the simple and compact FireWire Audiophile with FireWire connection. The fact that it has RCA terminals makes it easy to use.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank turbo.d, visibleprism, everyone who provided information about this issue, those who supported the OS9 boot on Mac mini, and the site administrator. 

This is awesome. I'm glad I could help you with this.
I also have the UA-25 but the M-audio unit is more easy in use.

good luck
regards
Marcel

[smilesdavis]

This is a super convenient way to get a digital audio via spdif into a os9 environment

[Mardeec]

Dr. de Bongo

<<Hey @Mardeec, you want this M-Audio FW410 back?>>

Ha...If you managed to get it working in OS9, that baby is yours!

I picked up another FW410 sometime ago, and of course ran into the same OS9 problem. I've been sidetracked on other projects for awhile, but couldn't believe it when I came across this thread recently.  I recall my first post to this august forum was on this topic, and I was impressed and grateful that Gary N and others spent weeks walking me through possible solutions. 

I think I have all the necessary tools to do the downgrade, so I'll get to work.  Wow, thanks to visibleprism and all who helped refine the process.  I really can't believe this is happening!

[DieHard]

Well, we do have a bunch of super-tenacious members that NEVER give up on a problem and the "hive-mind" has the advantage of taking little bits of truth from each member that tries to tackle the task... so in the end, we have achieved success on so many of these topics regarding vintage hardware, vintage software, and the drivers.

Just a last FYI, I am hitting the big 60 next year and I have been at this PC/Mac/audio driver stuff since I was 19 years old and there is always a "trick" involved; as you get older it's good to keep a log or database (that's what makes this forum such a great resource tool) of all the accumulated "tricks" to get things working.  As you may well know, EVERY OS from Mac to PC, from vintage to modern; has it's share of bugs/issues that need a specific little set of facts/steps (that I call "tricks") to get things working... even though Apple, MicroSoft, or most manufacturers default into "protect mode" and claim that your doing something wrong... and everything should just work as advertised.

With literally thousands of combinations of software, computers, and peripherals; it's amazing we get anything to work, but it is so satisfying when we achieve our goal !  How many FW410 and external FW Audiphile units have been tossed into the garbage, sold on eBay, and also returned to sellers on eBay over this entire fiasco ?

Nine out of 10 times, if the manufacturer included a PDF addendum on their website, updated a manual, or put out a youtube video, we would not have to play detective.  I am very sure the staff at M-Audio could have easily made all of this info public knowledge; but as always, the $$ drive this news cycle, not the desperately needed tech info., besides, what company wants you to be happy with using a 20 year old interface, when you can buy a new one that records at 48bit/192k to go with your M3 Studio.

[ssp3]

... besides, what company wants you to be happy with using a 20 year old interface, when you can buy a new one that records at 48bit/192k to go with your M3 Studio.

Metric Halo

It might sound like an advertising, but it is a fact. And yes, I do own several of their boxes, and no, they can't be had for $25 on eBay 

[smilesdavis]

Lynx's Support is the best - you can get into lengthy discussions with their boss. love it.