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[ssp3]

Running 9.2.1 with v.8 patched ROM is effectively running the same setup as on v.8 CD.

IMO, there are way too many variables to blame the 9.6.1 ROM. Could it be that ColorSync is interfering there?

To be 100% sure one has to start not with the "fresh install" of OS 9.x.x, but with absolute minimum set of extensions and control panels, something similar to what is present on install CDs and go from there, step by step, adding one extension at a time.

Yesterday I've patched the 8.7 ROM in a similar way the 9.6.1 ROM is patched - compatible models, fake processor, checksum, but only got floppy image with question mark or gray screen.
I also have to admit, that, although I've poked in the Mac OS ROMs in the past, I've never rebuilt any ROM from scratch, only changed this and that in the boot script or a few bytes in the code.
My understanding is that ELN patched/changed some parcels and then integrated them into ROM by rebuilding it.
(I don't think I'm ready to go that route with all the extra stuff that needs to be installed and learned to make it work).

Also, why 9.6.1 was chosen and not 10.2.1 or even something earlier, like 8.7 is still a mistery to me. I think I've asked the same question in the past but got no answers.

[Jubadub]

@ssp3 Thanks for trying. Mabe we will have to wait for one of the "ROM wizards" for this one.

The 9.6.1 ROM we use seems to be some ROM that is from or associated with the G4 Cube: back then we concluded that this should be the "closest" hardware to the Mac mini. Before that, we used a ROM somehow related to the Sawtooh, IIRC, which also worked, but had some issues (more audio problems? I don't remember anymore).

About something else being the culprit, Mac Garden user "meauxdal" reportedly was very thorough about it. I think your methodology is right, though, and I think he might just have done that, too, but who knows. Presumably, when nothing but the ROM is swapped to 8.7 in an existing system, all color glitches are fixed. That alone seems to be pretty conclusive, I would say. Unfortunately, I simply don't have access to Mac hardware besides my mini (and an OS-9-less PB DLSD) to check, and without any other ROM we can use, my only other option is to test the old Sawtooth hacked ROM, if I can find it again.

[zefrenchtoon]

Hi!

I was looking for some ROM files on the Garden and found an interesting topic where SkyCapt say:

8.4 and v8.7 can't operate the ATA-100 bus (they predate the invention of ATA-100), I haven't noticed anything else different.

https://macintoshgarden.org/forum/a-mac-mystery-mac-os-rom-files#comment-53095

[EDIT]
Also, in another topic (I don't remember which one), I've recorded a link to a shared doc from adespoton which is interesting too:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wB2HnysPp63fezUzfgpk0JX_b7bXvmAg6-Dk7QDyKPY

[ssp3]

Mabe we will have to wait for one of the "ROM wizards" for this one.

I'm afraid those "ROM wizards", just like Elvis, have left the building.

[nanopico]

I don't have an 8.7 rom handy at the moment so I can't confirm anything with that.
But I will say this for the versions I do have.

8.4 has a parcel package in for a basic display driver. That same driver does change with ROM 9.0.1
Not knowing what the bug causing the graphical display glitches is I can't say for 100% certianty, but that parcel could be the culprit and it would be possible to extract from the 8.4(or 8.7) that parcel and place it into any of the later ROM's if needed, though without knowing what changes were made it's possible it could break something else.

Related to the ata-100 thing.  It looks like that support was probably in the 9.1.1 ROM as that is where the kauiai-ata driver parcel was first added and that chip would have supported the ata-100.

Not sure how this all helps but it's a little info.

[CarcinogenSDA]

Hi there, surprised to see this thread is still going somewhat in 2024. I just registered, got no idea what forum etiquette is like in 2024, so I apologize for this bump.

I just acquired a model 7447a 1.42GHz G4 Mac Mini off of eBay, with the intent of playing old weird PowerPC Mac ports of DOS games.

Given the age and length of this thread, there's a lot to take in, and as I understand it from reading a few pages back, the version of the ISO I need to use to install OS9 seems to depend on which variant of the Mac Mini G4 I'm running, is that correct?

I found this thread through a video on YouTube by "The House of Moth", and there also seemed to be some issues with audio and the keyboard/mouse was very finnicky too if you were using the aluminum ones.

With these caveats in mind:
1) Is there a specific or updated disc image I should be using to load OS9?
2) Will there continue to be any issues with audio, keyboard, and mouse? If so, are there any workarounds?
3) Which version of OS9 should I be running, even? I'm pretty new to vintage mac stuff, but it seems 9.2 is the one if, say, I want to play games from the early-mid 1990's? Everything I understand so far says that OSX Tiger isn't going to run these old games, correct?

If I'm meant to read the whole thread and figure it out myself, I will understand, it's no problem, I just want to see if I can't save some time with some direct answers on the outset. Any help is appreciated!!

[gregbuchner]

With these caveats in mind:
1) Is there a specific or updated disc image I should be using to load OS9?
2) Will there continue to be any issues with audio, keyboard, and mouse? If so, are there any workarounds?
3) Which version of OS9 should I be running, even? I'm pretty new to vintage mac stuff, but it seems 9.2 is the one if, say, I want to play games from the early-mid 1990's? Everything I understand so far says that OSX Tiger isn't going to run these old games, correct?

1. The most current one available.
    https://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=4
2. There are some USB -> Audio adapters that work pretty good. I use the Behringer UCA202
3. You run the version that is on the install CD.

[gregbuchner]

2. There are some USB -> Audio adapters that work pretty good. I use the Behringer UCA202

FYI: This UGREEN model works just fine also and comes with extra USB ports. Had forgotten I had it and found it looking for something else and just tried it out.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HPMHOY0/

Unfortunately it doesn't look like they have anything comparable from a quick search. If anyone is interested in this device, it's a UGREEN model 30420, maybe something will come up on a search.

I haven't tested the USB ports on it yet, but I don't see why the would not work.

[bamdad]

2. There are some USB -> Audio adapters that work pretty good. I use the Behringer UCA202

FYI: This UGREEN model works just fine also and comes with extra USB ports. Had forgotten I had it and found it looking for something else and just tried it out.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HPMHOY0/

Unfortunately it doesn't look like they have anything comparable from a quick search. If anyone is interested in this device, it's a UGREEN model 30420, maybe something will come up on a search.

I haven't tested the USB ports on it yet, but I don't see why the would not work.

this works in OS9? wow.. want

[davecom]

With these caveats in mind:
1) Is there a specific or updated disc image I should be using to load OS9?
2) Will there continue to be any issues with audio, keyboard, and mouse? If so, are there any workarounds?
3) Which version of OS9 should I be running, even? I'm pretty new to vintage mac stuff, but it seems 9.2 is the one if, say, I want to play games from the early-mid 1990's? Everything I understand so far says that OSX Tiger isn't going to run these old games, correct?

1. If you have a true 1.42 (not a 1.5 silent upgrade, since most of these are labeled on the case as 1.42) then the latest v9 disc image will work unaltered for you at all resolutions. The silent upgrade machines (1.33, 1.5) are the ones that have issues with display resolutions. You can see the forum thread on display oddities to get some insight on that issue if you have a silent upgrade machine. But the starting point is still probably the v9 image.

2. Yes, there are a few issues you should be aware of. First, as mentioned by another poster you need to have some kind of USB Audio, be that USB speakers or a USB 3.5 mm adapter. Your mouse may occasionally freeze during startup. It seems moving it a bit during boot helps prevent this. Some more modern USB mice don't work well. Also, you didn't ask about it, but you should know that if your mini has Airport (WiFi) and Bluetooth they will not work under Mac OS 9.

3. You will be running the version in the v9 disc image (9.2.2). You'll be fine running most games written for the Classic Mac OS.

[thirdbanana]

Can I put the iso file (whose link was mentioned in a previous post in this thread) into a USB disk and boot off it? When I tried it, I got

Code: [Select]

0 > boot usb0/disk@1:,\\:tbxi ;pad-size-2aad16 adler32=6fa3f548

parsing <CHRP-BOOT>

Bootinfo is not available
  ok
0 >
Does that mean I have to burn a CD?

[ssp3]

IIRC, Mini can't boot off of USB, but bootable Firewire enclosure, if you have one, will do.

[gregbuchner]

IIRC, Mini can't boot off of USB, but bootable Firewire enclosure, if you have one, will do.

That is what I remember also. I also recall reading that the reason behind this is that MacOS 9 resets the USB bus while booting up. Thus ending the connection.

I burned a CD (actually 3, just in case) and did successfully install off of that. I still have a few Firewire enclosures, but haven't tried installing off of any of them.

[thirdbanana]

I would consider burning a CD but I do not have had or seen a blank one in years.

IIRC, Mini can't boot off of USB, but bootable Firewire enclosure, if you have one, will do.

That is what I remember also. I also recall reading that the reason behind this is that MacOS 9 resets the USB bus while booting up. Thus ending the connection.

Is this resetting of the USB bus MacOS 9 or Mini G4 specific? Reason I ask is I also have a Pismo and am considering putting 9 on it too

[gregbuchner]

I would consider burning a CD but I do not have had or seen a blank one in years.

IIRC, Mini can't boot off of USB, but bootable Firewire enclosure, if you have one, will do.

That is what I remember also. I also recall reading that the reason behind this is that MacOS 9 resets the USB bus while booting up. Thus ending the connection.

Is this resetting of the USB bus MacOS 9 or Mini G4 specific? Reason I ask is I also have a Pismo and am considering putting 9 on it too

It's MacOS 9. I had a Pismo once upon a time and when I put a new HD in it, I remember trying to reinstall MacOS 9 on it to start fresh from USB "just because". Eventually ended up just putting the old HD in a Firewire case and just copying everything over. That became a MacOS 9 install HD then for a few years before I replaced the 12 GB drive with a larger drive.

Maybe someone could send you a CD? I still have about a 1/3 of a stack of them I think back from when stacks of CDs were often free, or near free, after rebate.

[ssp3]

Is this resetting of the USB bus MacOS 9 or Mini G4 specific? Reason I ask is I also have a Pismo and am considering putting 9 on it too

It's MacOS 9.

I wouldn't be that sure
I've managed to boot 17" Al PowerBook off of USB over a year ago - http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6742.0

[gregbuchner]

Is this resetting of the USB bus MacOS 9 or Mini G4 specific? Reason I ask is I also have a Pismo and am considering putting 9 on it too

It's MacOS 9.

I wouldn't be that sure
I've managed to boot 17" Al PowerBook off of USB over a year ago - http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6742.0

That is what I read many, many years ago when people were trying to boot off of USB, that MacOS 9 reset the USB bus.

Was the 17 Al PowerBook a USB 2 model? Maybe that made a difference in how MacOS 9 acted with it? But if that did, I'd wonder why it would be different for the Mac Mini.

[ssp3]

Was the 17 Al PowerBook a USB 2 model?

No. It has two USB 1.1 ports. It's the Mini that has USB 2. That could be it.

[thirdbanana]

It's MacOS 9. I had a Pismo once upon a time and when I put a new HD in it, I remember trying to reinstall MacOS 9 on it to start fresh from USB "just because". Eventually ended up just putting the old HD in a Firewire case and just copying everything over. That became a MacOS 9 install HD then for a few years before I replaced the 12 GB drive with a larger drive.

Maybe someone could send you a CD? I still have about a 1/3 of a stack of them I think back from when stacks of CDs were often free, or near free, after rebate.

Problem is the USB drive in the mini is kaput. I do not know its history before I got it but before I had it running OSX and then Linux before retiring (to an intel mini running linux, which I am using right now). Those I had no issues booting off USB, so I had hopes.

Was the 17 Al PowerBook a USB 2 model?

No. It has two USB 1.1 ports. It's the Mini that has USB 2. That could be it.

Bummer.

Brain wave: you know, I just remembered I have an external CDROM drive, and I believe it has FW400 ports on it. If I can find the bastard, what are the chances it will work as a bootable drive?

[gregbuchner]

Brain wave: you know, I just remembered I have an external CDROM drive, and I believe it has FW400 ports on it. If I can find the bastard, what are the chances it will work as a bootable drive?

It should work. I think I know where mine is, maybe I'll get a chance to test it this weekend out of curiosity. Used it for buying CDs from my Pismo before I upgraded the DVD/CD reader in it to a DVD reader/CD burner.