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[supernova777]

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g5/faq/powermac-g5-superdrive-cdrw-dvd-dvdr-dual-layer-dvd-support.html


here we can see the first official "DL" capable superdrives launched with the powermac g5
2.0 DP (PCI)
2.3 DP (PCI-X)
2.7 DP (PCI-X)

so we see 4x was the first dual layer supported speed
later increased to 6x in second half of year 2005

4X Superdrive
Apple reports that this 4X DVD-R/CD-RW SuperDrive "
DVD : writes DVD-R discs at up to 4x speed, reads DVDs at up to 8x speed,
CD : writes CD-R discs at up to16x speed, writes CD-RW discs at up to 10x speed, [and] reads CDs at up to 32x speed."
It uses an Ultra ATA/100 bus.

8X "SuperDrive"
Apple reports that this 8X DVD-R/CD-RW SuperDrive "
DVD : writes DVD-R discs at up to 8x speed, reads DVDs at up to 10x speed,
CD : writes CD-R discs at up to 24x speed, writes CD-RW discs at up to 10x speed, [and] reads CDs at up to 32x speed."
It uses an Ultra ATA/100 bus.

4X DL "SuperDrive"
Apple reports that this "16X" DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW SuperDrive "
DVD: writes DVD-R discs at 16x speed, writes DVD+R DL discs at up to 4x speed, reads DVDs at up to 16x speed,
CD: writes CD-R and CD-RW discs at up to 24x speed and reads CDs at up to 32x speed."
It uses an Ultra ATA/100 bus.

6X DL "SuperDrive"
Apple reports that this "16X" DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW SuperDrive "
DVD: writes DVD-R discs at 16x speed, writes DVD+R DL discs at up to 6x speed, reads DVDs at up to 16x speed,
CD: writes CD-R and CD-RW discs at up to 24x speed, [and] reads CDs at up to 32x speed."
It uses an Ultra ATA/100 bus.

[supernova777]

the highest level of any powermac g4
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_1.42_dp_mdd.html
the 1.42 DP MDD

if we take into account that it shipped with:

4X "SuperDrive" - Apple reported that the 4X DVD-R/CD-RW SuperDrive "writes DVDs at 4X, reads DVDs at 8X, writes CD-R at 16X, writes CD-RW at 8X, and reads CDs at 32X". By custom order, it also could be configured with a second optical drive. Both optical drives use a EIDE (ATA-3) bus.

able to write DVD-R at 4x - this is perhaps the best we can do?
but is the software responsible for the speed? or the drive? putting a more modern burner into a g4..
whats the highest write speed any of us has got using normal DVD-R or DVD+R? (non dual layer)

[MacTron]

able to write DVD-R at 4x - this is perhaps the best we can do?
but is the software responsible for the speed? or the drive? putting a more modern burner into a g4..
whats the highest write speed any of us has got using normal DVD-R or DVD+R? (non dual layer)

I have wrote DVD-R at 16X speed in Mac Os 9 with Toast 5.2.3.

The DVD Driver (LG GH24NSB0) support up to 24X DVD write speed.

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=958.msg8456#msg8456

May be If I find a 24X DVD disk... LOL

[supernova777]

I've tested the M-DISCs today. Toast 5.2.x wrote them without any problem.
I had to use "Toast CD Reader" instead of "Apple CD/DVD driver" to read them.

in the same way that you used this extension to surpass the old dvd write speed
i wonder if there exists an extension that can enable dvd-r DL burning?

[IIO]

but toast 5 indeed has sometimes weird speeds displayed, even in OSX.

[MacTron]

At six seconds to the success:



...so it seems possible, but not really reliable...

[supernova777]

from the toast history http://www.roxio.com/enu/support/toast/version_history6.html

Buffer Underrun Prevention option available for combination DVD+R/RW and -R/RW recorders

so suppoort for this was added in v6.03
i think this means that this is a problem specifically with "combination DVD±R/RW recorders" that do both +R & -R
i read some things related to this when i was researching all of the above information to do with this being some sort of
failsafe protection for burning the - type or + type i can tremember which, and that its a function built into the drive itself
so its the software not supporting the mechanism of the drive itself...  Im pretty sure i read that this is to do with the +R type
of the DRIVE itself.... not the media... or that its triggered by the drive itself when using one type of media..
i will have to look again.. but i think that if u were to use a drive that only supports -R burning on -R media
that this might be able to be avoided

[supernova777]

from the toast history for v5.x
http://www.roxio.com/enu/support/toast/software_updatesv5.html

It looks like they fixed this problem for 5.x!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Toast 5.2.3 Titanium enables the Buffer Underrun Prevention option for combination DVD+R/RW and DVD-R/RW recorders when using -R/RW media. Buffer Underrun Prevention is not an option when using +R/RW media, since the recorder uses the built-in error prevention that is part of the +R/RW specification.

*Optional: This updater is intended to address buffer underrun prevention problems with certain DVD recorders and is not cumulative with the Toast 5.2.1 updater. Roxio recommends that Toast 5.2.1 be applied prior to this update. Please scroll down for information regarding Toast 5.2.1.

again it makes direct reference to this only affecting "combination" recorders... so my thinking is that if using a DVD-R/RW that does not support DVD+R/RW then this might be able to be avoided.\
"certain dvd recorders"

it also mentions that the updates have to be applied in sequence.. and that the latest update does not contain the previous updates!!!!!!!!! so perhaps this could be the key to unlock the solution? maybe this is an oversight by whoever packaged the toast version that we have.. and only included the 5.23 or 5.22 update.. as noted: ***Roxio recommends that Toast 5.2.1 be applied prior to this update***
but of course the download links for the updates of 5.x do not work.. i think i saw them working on the japanese version of the site !!!!! i will search.

what is needed is to install the basic toast 5.0 + install each update one after the other.. to ensure 100% that the right patches have been applied
we must gather all the updates in an attempt to solve this problem


drive compatibility info: says v5.1+ should support *ALL IDE cd/dvd* in this image
http://web.archive.org/web/20040404091202/http://www.roxio.com/en/support/roxio_support/toast/toast_rec.html
so maybe proper install of toast 5 updates require 9.1 or 9.2 or 9.2.2

supported cd recorders:
http://web.archive.org/web/20021201111637/http://www.roxio.com/en/jhtml/extranet/driveid/html/A.html

different updates:
5.0 -> 5.02
New Toast 5.2.1 Updater available! (http://web.archive.org/web/20031108030251/http://www.roxio.com/en/support/toast/)

^^^^ this 5.2.1 updater is whats needed to fix buffer underrun... this ****update must be applied before 5.2.3 update****

[supernova777]

ok i think its a total of 3 seperate updates

Update Toast 5.2.1 Titanium or later to 5.2.3
(compatible with Mac OS 9.1 and higher, including Mac OS X v10.3 )
Toast 5.2.3 Titanium enables the Buffer Underrun Prevention option for combination DVD+R/RW and DVD-R/RW recorders when using -R/RW media. Buffer Underrun Prevention is not an option when using +R/RW media, since the recorder uses the built-in error prevention that is part of the +R/RW specification.
*Optional: This updater is intended to address buffer underrun prevention problems with certain DVD recorders and is not cumulative with the Toast 5.2.1 updater. Roxio recommends that Toast 5.2.1 be applied prior to this update. Please scroll down for information regarding Toast 5.2.1.
Download: http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/5745/toast-5-titanium-updater

Update Toast 5.0 Titanium or later to 5.2.1
(compatible with Mac OS 9.1 and higher, including Mac OS 10.3 )
The improvements to Toast 5.2.1 Titanium include, but are not limited to: added CDDB2 submit feature, fixed Toast online help formatting issues with Jaguar help system, improved compatibility of VideoCD export with iMovie 3, improved 4x recording performance with Pioneer DVD-R, fixed AppleScript error during transfers from iView, Panic, CD SpinDoctor to Toast.
Download: LINK NEEDED

Update Toast 5.0 Titanium and later to version 5.0.2
(Software was purchased separately from a recorder.)
Adds Buffer Underrun Prevention for DVD-R drives, support for DVD-R media speed detection, better responsiveness when burning to built-in ATAPI/IDE recorders, improved compatibility with Apple's iTunes and Disc Burner, Apple Packet Media Access compatibility, support for new CD and DVD recorders, improved support for the Apple SuperDrive, the Pioneer DVR-A03, and the Yamaha 2100E, and Disc-to-Disc copy improvements.

so updates need to be run sequentially i think.. from lowest to highest, otherwise files will not be patched

[supernova777]

ok i found a bunch of them.. but still 5.x->5.2.1 update missing **not to be mistaken with the 5.2.1-5.2.3 update



http://www.ephotozine.com/article/roxio-announces-downloadable-versions-of-toast-titanium-and-jam-1337

Roxio the Digital Media Company, provider of the best selling digital media software in the world, announced today that Toast Titanium and Jam are now available for purchase as downloadable versions from the Roxio online store at www.roxio.de The company also announces that an update for existing Toast 5.x Titanium customers is available here.

What's New in Toast 5.2.1
The latest Toast Titanium 5.2.1* update has many improvements and fixes including:

    a new CDDB2 submit feature
    improved VideoCD export compatibility with iMovie 3
    improved 4x recording performance with Pioneer DVD-R drives
    fixed AppleScript error during transfers from iView, Panic, and CD SpinDoctor to Toast
    fixed Toast online help formatting issues with Jaguar help system

Toast Titanium 5.2.1 includes all the new features introduced with version 5.2, including:

    Mac OS 10.2 Support: Compatibility with Jaguar!
    Support for 52x recorders, enabling users to get the most out of their hardware with Toast.
    CD-Text Support: Toast 5.2 writes CD-Text information for album name and track information to recorded audio discs, if the recorder supports burning CD-Text. This information is viewable in CD audio players that display CD-Text.
    Enhanced VideoCD QuickTime Codec: The Toast VideoCD codec has been enhanced to support multiple G4 processors, speeding the encoding process. It also offers more accurate preservation of color and contrast.
    Enhanced Quartz text rendering for improved interface usability.

System requirements are Mac OS 9.1 or later, or Mac OS X version 10.1.2 or later. Please note that the updates will NOT install on a machine where Toast 5 Titanium is not present.

[supernova777]

reviewing the notes on the macintoshgarden page http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/toast-5-titanium
at the very bottom, bertyboy claims that:

-up to v5.0.2 works with "apple disc burning extension" enabled, versions after that need this extension turned off to work properly
-v5.1.3 -> v5.2.3 was for osx support on jaguar 10.2.x ONLY! (not sure if this is true i think roxio would have made this point very clear if so)
-mac os 9 only support up to v5.1.2 officially
i dont think that is true because of the documentation for the updaters claim compatibility with 9.1+
maybe hes getting confused between 9.0 compatibility & 9.1+ compatibility

[MacTron]

This is going really weird...
Finally Toast 5.2.3 wrote a DL DVD on Mac Os 9, But I couldn't read it by no means, but in Mac Os X



While I could read DL DVD on Mac Os 9 written in Mac os X or Linux ...
May be I need a rest...

[supernova777]

maybe what bertyboy said is true.. that version 5.12 is the version for mac os 9
and that these versions past 5.12 write the filesystem in a way that is for mac os x?

[supernova777]

i think ive found the 5.2.1 updater on this page.. around 20mb
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.roxio.jp%2Fsupport%2Fdownload%2Ftoast%2Fmac_osx.html&edit-text=&act=url
http://softwareupdates.roxio.com/gm/Products/en/Toast/Titanium/v5/RToast_Ti_Updater_521.hqx


examining this update, (and its url "toast/mac_osx.html") it appears to be packaged in a way that looks like it is indeed for X! but maybe not "X only"
i think bertyboy may be correct.. that versions above 5.1.2 are for 9/X dual booting systems
in the way that the quicksilver originally shipped with both os... 
it may require having both 9+X present to get a proper installation!!!!!!!!!
i reccommend doing a full restore of a quicksilver or mdd and trying..

this must be similar to how this "ASR for MacOSX v1.1" was for 9 aswell as X..
*the 5.2.1 updater requires carbonlib

maybe the 5.1.2 update contains updates for os9 with the same corrections + fixes that the 5.2.1 upsate contains for x

[supernova777]

ive combined all the files i could find from all the sources i could find and its 177mb and im uploading it now

[supernova777]

re: "roxio toast 5.01 installer"
the toast 5.01 installer file size is very small.
i think we need to find an original 5.0 disc image or installer in order to patch up from 5.0
this 5.01 installer in the package ive created seems to only be an updater for the extensions + patch

ok nevermind maybe it is the real installer.. it is only 2.7mb which is what made me say this
if anyone has the 5.0 original disc image please post!!

[supernova777]

here is my install procedure,

install 5.01 installer.. + reboot
tried to install 5.01 updater it says 'no eligible 5.0 installs found'  prob because its the same version that i installed
install 5.02 updater.. it works.. reboot
tried to install 5.1 update **requires mac os 9.1** (im on 9.02 on this mac) so there i have to update to 9.1 to continue..
and i have to ASR my disk before i continue..

since the 5.1 updates require os9.1
probably the 5.2.x updates will require os9.2
its a good explanation of the number scheme for the updates

[MacTron]

To Chris: this is not a Toast version problem. And even though only 5.2.1 and 5.2.3 can record DL media, none of both versions know what a DL DVD really is. They record to it as a unknown 8GB size CD. The main work is done in the DVD writer.
The best and the only result until now was achieved in a Pioneer 110D.
And Yes, after 5.02 Toast is a carbon application that can run in Mac Os 9 and in Mac Os X...

[supernova777]

regardless of DL vs normal dvd,
the updates explicitly mention this buffer underrun problem being fixed..
and the version history mentions that the 5.2.3 update does not contain the fixes from the updates which came before
and that they must be applied BEFORE 5.2.3

this mentality of "The last update" having "All updates combined" is a methodology implemented by apple with mac os updates
many other software companies do not create these "all encompassing" updates and require
EACH UPDATE BE APPLIED IN ORDER to properly patch the application with *all fixes*

[supernova777]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffer_underrun#CD_and_DVD_recording_issues

General causes and solutions

The term should not be confused with buffer overflow, a condition where a portion of memory being used as a buffer has a fixed size but is filled with more than that amount of data. Whereas buffer overflows are usually the result of programming errors, and thus preventable, buffer underruns are often the result of transitory issues involving the connection which is being buffered: either a connection between two processes, with others competing for CPU time, or a physical link, with devices competing for bandwidth.

The simplest guard against such problems is to increase the size of the buffer—if an incoming data stream needs to be read at 1 bit per second, a buffer of 10 bits would allow the connection to be blocked for up to 10 seconds before failing, whereas one of 60 bits would allow a blockage of up to a minute. However, this requires more memory to be available to the process or device, which can be expensive. It assumes that the buffer starts full—requiring a potentially significant pause before the reading process begins—and that it will always remain full unless the connection is currently blocked. If the data does not, on average, arrive faster than it is needed, any blockages on the connection will be cumulative; "dropping" one bit every minute on a hypothetical connection with a 60-bit buffer would lead to a buffer underrun if the connection remained active for an hour. In real-time applications, a large buffer size also increases the latency between input and output, which is undesirable in low-latency applications such as video conferencing.
CD and DVD recording issues

Buffer underruns can cause serious problems during CD/DVD burning, because once the writing is started, it cannot stop and resume flawlessly; thus the pause needed by the underrun can cause the data on the disc to become invalid. Since the buffer is generally being filled from a relatively slow source, such as a hard disk or another CD/DVD, a heavy CPU or memory load from other concurrent tasks can easily exhaust the capacity of a small buffer. Therefore, a technique called buffer underrun protection was implemented by various individual CD/DVD writer vendors, under various trademarks, such as Plextor BurnProof, Nero UltraBuffer, Yamaha SafeBurn, JustLink, and Seamless Link. With this technique, the laser is indeed able to stop writing for any amount of time and resume when the buffer is full again. The gap between successive writes is extremely small.

Another way to protect against the problem, when using rewritable media (CD-RW, DVD-RW, DVD-RAM), is to use the UDF file system, which organizes data in smaller "packets", referenced by a single, updated address table, which can therefore be written in shorter bursts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Disk_Format

History
The Optical Storage Technology Association standardized the UDF file system to form a common file system for all optical media: both for read-only media and for re-writable optical media. When first standardized, the UDF file system aimed to replace ISO 9660, allowing support for both read-only and writable media. After the release of the first version of UDF, the DVD Consortium adopted it as the official file system for DVD-Video and DVD-Audio.[6]

maybe it would be best to use a RW that can be erased + tried again to solve this problem:

Rewriteable media such as DVD-RW and CD-RW have fewer limitations than DVD-R and CD-R media. Sectors can be rewritten at random (though in packets at a time). These media can be erased entirely at any time, making the disc blank again, ready for writing a new UDF or other file system (e.g., ISO 9660 or CD Audio) to it. However, sectors of -RW media may "wear out" after a while, meaning that their data becomes unreliable, through having been rewritten too often (typically after a few hundred rewrites, with CD-RW).

http://forums.support.roxio.com/topic/50075-udf-format-versions-in-toast-and-its-history/

Toast has implemented the UDF standard since many years now (starting from perhaps the toast 4.11 versions when consumer affordable DVDs came into use)

can u check this disk you burned is in UDF format already?