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[mrhappy]

Was trying to do a fresh 9.2.2 install and can't get a G4 500DP to boot from a CD. The DVD drive seems to function otherwise. Tried holding 'C', 'Opt', 'Shft/Cmd/Opt/Delete' and probably a few others but nothing I did would make it happen. Any ideas??

Thanks...MH

[Protools5LEGuy]

I had a trouble with a keyboard with broken "C" key...

[supernova777]

does it seem like the cd is being accessed by the drive?
can you see/hear anything to indicate that it is?

you are definately the first to test this cd on such a machine
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_500_dp.html
this system belongs to the Gigabit Ethernet/Mystic Family

i know that it shipped with a specialized version of mac os 9.0.4 that was very much incompatible with the prior g4 350/400/450/500 sawtooth motherboard design that features the firewire port on the actual motherboard near the connectors. installing the 9.0.4 mystic version of mac os 9.0.4 onto a sawtooth would create a highly unstable crash prone system. perhaps theres some type of  complication preventing it from booting from install cd that diehard made.

but before jumping to that conclusion,
how did u go about burning the disc?

[DieHard]

The CD I created should be bootable even with a G3 System. 

You can also download the "Drag Install" put it on a FW drive and boot to that, or perhaps the the "Tech Tools" diagnostic and burn to a CD
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?board=33.0

Or any other OS Factory CD
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?board=62.0

And try to boot via CD

[mrhappy]

I was just looking through your 'quick note' post on the CD burning thing,etc. and I'm sure that I need to start from scratch as far as that whole process goes! I wound up trying to boot the CD that came with the G4 400 system that I have, not knowing of the incapability that you mentioned... That makes sense now!! I could hear the DVD drive spin up then spin down after it was ignored by my 'fancy pants' motherboard!

I DID actually try 2 different keyboards as I had considered the 'broken C' possibility but it made no difference.

Also I was installing a fresh internal drive (250gb) that I planned on partitioning, having read that os9 has issues with internal drives above 120-ish?... made a mess out of that for awhile but finally got that sorted out so it shows up as 3 80-ish gb partitions.

SOOOO.... as it stands now, I need to review your 'burning/extracting' post and get that whole trip together first!! ... then I'll try to get the G4 500p to boot from the DVD drive.

In the mean time  I did a 'drag/drop' from a portable FW to get things up and running but REALLY DO like the idea of a fresh install of 9.2.2/PT 5.1.3!!! 

[mrhappy]

As you can see DieHard, I think I messed up the whole download/burn/extract thing, as apparently I'm a 'SRCU' (Semi-Retarded-Computer-User) ... so need to start from scratch in that regard... I'll have a look at those other options that you linked...THANKS!

[mrhappy]

Following that first link I saw the 'Which OS' post with 128gb limit thing... I didn't realize at the time that i could partition a drive before installing the OS... so I was using a G4 400 running 9.1 to format before I put the 250gb into the G4 500dp... turned into a 'cluster' but finally got it to goin'

[mrhappy]

Change that 'SRCU' to 'CRCU'... (Completely-RCU)!!

[DieHard]

NP Mr Happy, just stay Happy 

[IIO]

i see no reason why a DP 500 would not start from any OS 9.1 or higher.

if the OS would be somehow wrong, the computer would at least attempt too boot and then stuck somewhere.

does the boot volume at least come up when you hold alt at start?

[mrhappy]

Can't remember if I tred 'alt' by itself... Will retry

[mrhappy]

Finally got around to Reinstalling a fresh 9.2.2 and still couldn't get my G4 500dp to boot from a CD... Had downloaded DieHard's Bootable CD so I wound up copying that to a portable firewire drive and using it from there to install. Anyway I've got a fresh 9.2.2 on there now! Still has me wondering about CD boot thing though... 

[supernova777]

Finally got around to Reinstalling a fresh 9.2.2 and still couldn't get my G4 500dp to boot from a CD... Had downloaded DieHard's Bootable CD so I wound up copying that to a portable firewire drive and using it from there to install. Anyway I've got a fresh 9.2.2 on there now! Still has me wondering about CD boot thing though...

i think the only logical conclusion is that the mac os rom 10.2.1 is incompatible with the Dual processor 7400 powerpc chip systems
see my timeline i constructed here: http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php?topic=389.0

July 19, 2000 *** these models have 4 ram slots / 3 pci slots + gigabit ethernet
    Mac Server G4 450 DP (Gigabit) *MYSTIC 9.0.4 (untill January 9, 2001)
    Mac Server G4 500 DP (Gigabit) *MYSTIC 9.0.4 (untill January 9, 2001) *high end model*
    Power Macintosh G4 400 (Gigabit) *MYSTIC 9.0.4 (untill January 9, 2001)
    Power Macintosh G4 450 DP (Gigabit) *MYSTIC 9.0.4  (untill January 9, 2001)
    Power Macintosh G4 500 DP (Gigabit) *MYSTIC 9.0.4  (untill January 9, 2001) *high end model*
    Power Macintosh G4 450 Cube 9.0.4  (untill July 3, 2001)
    Power Macintosh G4 500 Cube 9.0.4  (untill July 3, 2001)

these systems belong to the "gigabit/mystic" family which has documented incompatibilities with other mac os installations
like i said earlier using an install from these systems on an earler sawtooth motherboard would result in system instability/crashes...
there was some sort of difference with the motherboards from these systems.. my findings were that the oem version of mac os 9.0.4 shipped with these systems was tuned specifically for these motherboards.

theres a document here http://support.apple.com/kb/TA22055
that details which mac os rom was intended by apple to be used with which machines with which version of mac os
which claims :

Your computer must have the appropriate Mac OS ROM file for the version of Mac OS that is installed. Using the wrong Mac OS ROM file can cause the computer to behave unpredictably and may even prevent it from starting up.

it also lists the mac os rom shipped with these "MP" multiprocessor g4 machines from summer 2000 as mac os rom v4.9.1:

Mac OS 9.0.4 installed on Power Mac G4 MP (Summer 2000)
(CPU software 2.3)    4.9.1

notice that the 9.2.2 update is listed as

Mac OS 9.2.2 Update    Mac OS ROM v8.7

it sucks that this chart doesnt list the sawtooth, or the older systems specifically /w 9.2.2 but i think that the logic is that
these systems were supposed to be upgraded with the updates, from their original install of 9.0.4 which would leave them with the 8.7 updated mac os rom.

notice also that the official mac os rom document from apple lists A LARGE NUMBER of different version mac os rom files for mac os 9.0.4
specifically, a different mac os rom version for the "multiprocessor" machines... which leads me to believe.. if the mac os rom files were meant to be
"All encompassing" + "Catchall" then why the FUCK did they have to make so many different versions? this doesnt make sense... if they could have
had one file work for all of the different hardware.. then why didnt they make this a whole lot simpler? the reason is they couldnt... there are hardware differences to account for, perhaps they could have coded 1 file with all the code for all the machines but this was a feat that they didnt accomplish.. or perhaps theres size limitations of the file.. who knows why but the evidence is clear that they could not accomplish a universal mac os rom.... so this leasds me to the question to those that believe that the 10.2.1 rom is "good for all"... what logic are u basing this on??? for me the evidence is clear...  this is not the case..

Mac OS 9.0.4 Retail/Software Update    3.7
Mac OS 9.0.4 installed on iMac (Summer 2000)    4.6.1
Mac OS 9.0.4 installed on Power Mac G4 (Summer 2000)    4.6.1
Mac OS 9.0.4 installed on Power Mac G4 MP (Summer 2000) (CPU software 2.3)    4.9.1
Mac OS 9.0.4 installed on Power Mac G4 (Gigabit Ethernet)    4.9.1
Mac OS 9.0.4 installed on Power Mac G4 Cube (CPU software 2.4)    5.2.1
Mac OS 9.0.4 installed on iBook (Summer 2000) (CPU software 2.5)    5.3.1
Mac OS 9.0.4 installed on Power Mac G4 (with Radeon) (CPU software 2.6)    5.5.1

we last discussed the versions of mac os roms in the "Cd copy" thread here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1918.0
i think its possible that the system u have would perform better if u substitute the mac os rom v10.2.1 with the v8.7 file
you can either just substitute the file or start from scratch with the machine specific version of 9.0.4 originally shipped with your specific mac and then use the updates to get to 9.2.2
i have the updates hosted in a single 177mb file on my mediafire account: normal versions http://www.mediafire.com/download/mnr89qn6q580nuk/Mac_os_9_Updates.smi.bin
or the international versions http://www.mediafire.com/download/wuax8aohuk2i7gw/Mac_os_9_Z-Updates.smi.bin

i also think that the perspective that the "highest version is best" does not apply to the mac os rom .. and that the files have been specifically tuned for specific hardware/system differences... it is possible that the mac os rom 10.2.1 contains specific code for a multitude of machines/versions
but its also possible that they lost sight of 'best performance' of older systems  as they focused more on the quicksilvers + mdds
the 10.2.1 rom originates from an install from an MDD machine. this is a radically different system then the gigabit machines from July 19, 2000
when we remember these systems use an entirely different processor (with no on-chip 256k cache) + an entirely different motherboard (also designation as powermac3,3) it doesnt seem so far fetched does it?
see the powermac g4 chart: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=578.0

we can argue personal opinions back and forth but
theres one simple way to find out.. for someone to swap out the mac os rom 10.2.1 for the mac os 9.2.2 update rom version 8.7 on the "universal" cd installer and see if it boots mrhappys' DP 500 *from cd*
while the install may work once installed via a firewire drive or however mrhappy has installed to work around his cd problem.. it may be that the mac os rom is
responsible for the multiprocessor summer 2000 system not booting from the cd.

[supernova777]

or it could be that mrhappy doesnt know how to burn a fucking cd properly;)
in which case ill have to kill him + his family for making me write that last post LOL

[mrhappy]

That WAS quite a post...WOW!!! Now you've got me scared!! haha! While it IS totally possible that I'm clueless, The G4 500dp wouldn't boot with either the 'official' Apple software restore CD or the software install cd (SSW version 9.0.4) that came with a G4 400... and the optical drive wasn't even listed during the 'ALT' boot. I don't have the original discs from the G4 500dp though.

WHATEVER I did, I wound up with a fresh install from DieHard's CD via a firewire drive! So now I'm ready to join the Circus after all the 'hoop jumping' I've been doing!!! 

Was gonna revert to the DieHard drag and drop installation but I had already downloaded and burned the other install.

Anyway it seems to work at this point... just can't boot from cd. Your explanation sounds logical to me so no need to kill me just yet, HOWEVER, I'm sure I'll give you many more opportunities!!!!!! 

[supernova777]

perhaps u need to simply replace that optical drive..
have u tried doing a pram reset?

holding option-cmd-P-R ..  the computer will reset.. u do this 3 times to make sure (not sure why but i read that somewhere)

clears any settings in memory...

[mrhappy]

Did reset the PRAM once but didn't try the magic three times is the charm! The drive seems to work fine in normal operation.   I'll try multiple resets and see if that does anything.

[supernova777]

Did reset the PRAM once but didn't try the magic three times is the charm! The drive seems to work fine in normal operation.   I'll try multiple resets and see if that does anything.

dont ask me why but it cured the problem on my powermac g3 450mhz
actually, there was more to it then just that... which leads me to my next question./.
which graphics card do u have in the machine may i ask? do u have the original stock card? or an upgraded one?

[mrhappy]

dont ask me why but it cured the problem on my powermac g3 450mhz
actually, there was more to it then just that... which leads me to my next question./.
which graphics card do u have in the machine may i ask? do u have the original stock card? or an upgraded one?

I'll Have to check on that...

[supernova777]

easy to check just use apple system profiler!