Author Topic: Mac Os 9 booting on: G4 Tower MDD FW800 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 248123 times)

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Mac Os 9 booting on: G4 Tower MDD FW800 (Detailed Posts)
« on: March 13, 2014, 03:56:02 PM »
Is there out a method to "change" the "firmware" of a MDD FW800 to a OS9 bootable (First MDD) "bios"?
I did not find anyone that had made, but maybe one user has the 2 models and can say us: "the fw800 has a XXX chip for the bios and the Fw400 has YYY chip"  Maybe noone was brave enought to "desolder" the "OSX" controller and put a "OS9" compatible one.
There "should" be a method to "force flash" the bios  from the FW800 models to OS9, but in 6-7 years of research I did not find anything nor anyone.

But I just learned in the good way that this machines can still surprise us.

I readed somewhere that Lacie FW800 add-on cards work on OS9 as FW400.

Maybe the FW800 FW chipset is the only difference?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 10:07:54 AM by DieHard »
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2014, 04:14:32 PM »
In theory from open-firmware the user can say "dont use that resource".
This is the way for "unplug" onboard graphics cards on beige G3s for using pci ones.

There are too many FW800 machines out there and we want boot OS9 with them!
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2014, 04:42:32 PM »
-No Fw800, No USB 2... but I had read long time ago that this is posible.

-Format an HD with Mac Os 9 drivers.
-Use a Mac Os ROM version 10.2
-Force the startup with this HD.
... I never tested this, but may help ...
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2014, 04:49:33 PM »
-No Fw800, No USB 2... but I had read long time ago that this is posible.

-Format an HD with Mac Os 9 drivers.
-Use a Mac Os ROM version 10.2
-Force the startup with this HD.
... I never tested this, but may help ...
I had never read that. If it is true, it should not matter what model of MDD to buy for OS9.
Pci usb2 cards work in OS9 as usb1
Pci Fw800 cards work in Os9 as fw400
I asume you mean you cant use onboard usb2.0 ports and fw800.
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Offline Syntho

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2014, 08:10:54 PM »
Let's wait until DieHard chimes in. I think he's an expert when it comes to this  -afro-

supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2014, 09:12:37 PM »
I had never read that. If it is true, it should not matter what model of MDD to buy for OS9.
Pci usb2 cards work in OS9 as usb1
Pci Fw800 cards work in Os9 as fw400
I asume you mean you cant use onboard usb2.0 ports and fw800.

which g4 has usb 2.0  :o
u can have usb 2.0 in win98se ;)

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2014, 11:06:56 PM »
I have used the fw800 cpu (dual 1.42ghz) chips in the fw400
and it works alright - very quick for macos9 - only that it does run hotter
and the os9 doesn't have good manual software fan controllers -
the rate of the fans seem to be higher and noisier in os9 than in osx.
This is probably why the mdd 1.42ghz processors were on a model
that were macosx only the fan controllers were able to be controlled
better within the system - I don't know the reason.

So if I can use the cpu for fw800 on a motherboard for a fw400 mdd and macos9
works then the ROM for os9 must be on the fw400 motherboard and
not on the motherboard for the mdd fw800 g4's - my guess.

So the only downgrade would be a motherboard of the fw400 version
where the macos9 ROM chip resides. Must not be on the Fw800 model
motherboards.


Offline DieHard

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MDD FW800 Boot to OS 9
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2014, 08:58:38 AM »
This is like an old wound that never heals...

The reason so many of us got excited back in 2004 was that someone realized there was a special version on the Mac OS ROM File that resided on the Mac diagnostic CD that did in fact allow the G4 MDD FW800 units to boot to (what appeared to be) Mac OS 9.2.2.

Unfortunately, the excitement turn into frustration, since nobody was able to make a working copy that ran even a minimal set of extensions... the Apple diagnostic package with the modified MAC OS ROM file seemed to be a bare minimum alternative that booted to something that had an OS 9 facelift, but did not posses the full OS 9 Mojo... in other words, to my knowledge nobody ever made a full working copy of bootable Mac OS 9.2.2 that  worked on the FW800.... Many rumors have been around for a long time that this modified version of the ROM file (that was never released to the public) had a version that was fully operational under 9.2.2....

it was also rumored that there was a another ROM file version file that even allowed the first G5s to work under Mac OS 9 (although with such radially different hardware, I personally thought of this rumor as an urban legend).

So... in conclusion... any Mac gurus that have a MDD FW800 diagnostic CD, please extract everything needed and create a Bootable complete version of OS 9 for us... we look forward to posting a working copy by the end of the week... or month... or year :)

Offline MacTron

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2014, 11:15:07 AM »
There is "another" ROM that allow the "Spring 2003" iMac G4/800 "Flat Panel" X Only, to boot into Mac Os 9.
 I've taken a little time comparing that special ROM (convenient called "Custer") and Mac Os ROM 10.2.1 and I always thought that are almost the same thing. My therory is that the Custer ROM upgrades Mac Os ROM 9.8.1 to 10.2.1, but I may be wrong.
As I haven't any FW800 to test it.  I can share This ROM to any one that want to experiment. ...and who knows...
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: MDD FW800 Boot to OS 9
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2014, 12:47:29 PM »
This is like an old wound that never heals...

For a OS9 lover that had bought the wrong MDD, sure it never heals...  ;)
My MDD is an 867 dual FW400. I would not buy an MDD FW800, but just because I love OS9 and don't care about OSX only machines and I study my purchases before I do (make the homework).

I hope we can find a solution soon for all those who bought an FW800 and look OS9 saying "I can't".

So... in conclusion... any Mac gurus that have a MDD FW800 diagnostic CD, please extract everything needed and create a Bootable complete version of OS 9 for us... we look forward to posting a working copy by the end of the week... or month... or year :)
We are searching for it  :)
There is "another" ROM that allow the "Spring 2003" iMac G4/800 "Flat Panel" X Only, to boot into Mac Os 9.
 I've taken a little time comparing that special ROM (convenient called "Custer") and Mac Os ROM 10.2.1 and I always thought that are almost the same thing. My therory is that the Custer ROM upgrades Mac Os ROM 9.8.1 to 10.2.1, but I may be wrong.
As I haven't any FW800 to test it.  I can share This ROM to any one that want to experiment. ...and who knows...

That's great! An OSX only machine that can go OS9!
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: MDD FW800 Boot to OS 9
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2014, 12:55:56 PM »

So... in conclusion... any Mac gurus that have a MDD FW800 diagnostic CD, please extract everything needed and create a Bootable complete version of OS 9 for us... we look forward to posting a working copy by the end of the week... or month... or year :)
https://discussions.apple.com/message/13022080#13022080
Says that AHT 2.0.1 (FW800) is here http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Hardware_Test/693-4817-A.dmg
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2014, 01:01:39 PM »
 Grant Bennet-Alder in response to John Rock.
"When Apple declared the end of OS 9 bootablity, schools all over the country demanded extra time to finish their conversion to Mac OS X, especially the Server infrastructure. They needed new Macs, but could not yet support them on their older Servers, and could not convert to newer Servers without more time. There was ONE model issued later, only for the Education market, with a single 1.0GHz processor AND a FW800 port that could still boot OS 9.

There is thought to be a special version of the Mac OS ROM file (developed for that Mac) and few more additions that may be able to be coaxed to boot OS 9 directly on a FW800 G4. That Mac OS ROM file was also said to be found in an Apple-only diagnostic package that was never released to the outside world.

That is all the info I have. I have never tried to track down the files or verified their existence."
which g4 has usb 2.0  :o
u can have usb 2.0 in win98se ;)


Chris, finally the FW800 you saw could be the gate to MDD FW800 to boot OS9. If it is in your interest have spares...
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2014, 01:05:58 PM »
Booting OS9 on newer (unsupported) macs Part II
from 68k liberation
http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=18994
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supernova777

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2014, 03:43:42 PM »
guaranteed its possible.
theres a guy out there somewhere who wrote this open firmware shit and he knows its possible too.

WHERE ARE U OPEN FIRMWARE GUY

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2014, 04:42:20 PM »
I have uploaded the OS9General FW800 file to the file section but heres the differences between
the system files in the system folder for the OS9General Image for the FW400 computers
and the FW800 computers;

In the System Folder of the MDD FW800 Model here are the files.

Classic           v9.1.6 Mac OS 9.2.2 Extras 1.4         (Created 21/03/03 - Size 3.2mb)
Classic Support            v2.1.1 Mac OS 9.2.2 Extras 1.4         (Created 22/11/02 - Size 213KB)
Classic Support UI    v2.1.1 Mac OS 9.2.2 Extras 1.4         (Created 22/11/02 - Size 279KB)

Finder           vZ1-9.2 Mac OS Z-9.2.2            (Created 30/05/01 - Modified 15/06/01 - Size 2.4mb)

Login                 v1.4.1 Mac OS Z-9.2.2            (Created 04/04/01 - Size 700KB)

Mac OS ROM       v9.7.1 Mac OS CPU Software Z-5.6      (Created 12/10/02 - Size 3.4mb)

Panels           v1.4.1 Mac OS Z-9.2.2            (Created 04/04/01 - Size 1.3mb)

System         (18.4mb file) Date Created: 02/08/98      (Date Created 02/08/98 5:00am - Size 18.5mb)
System Resources   vZ1-9.2.2 Mac OS Z-9.2.2 (1mb file)      (Date Created 16/11/01 - Modified 22/11/01 7:00am - Size 1mb)


In the System Folder of the MDD FW400 Model here are the files.

Classic          v9.1.7    Mac OS 9.2.2 Extras 1.5       (Created 21/03/03 - Size 3.2mb)
Classic Support            v2.1.1    Mac OS 9.2.2 Extras 1.5       (Created 22/11/02 - Size 213KB)
Classic Support UI   v2.1.1    Mac OS 9.2.2 Extras 1.5       (Created 22/11/02 - Size 279KB)

Finder          vZ1-9.2    Mac OS Z-9.2.2                 (Created 30/05/01 - Modified 15/06/01 5:00am - Size 2.4mb)

Login                 v1.4.1    Mac OS Z-9.2.2                  (Created 04/04/01 - Size 700KB)

Mac OS ROM      v10.2.1    Mac OS CPU Software Z-5.8    (Created 04/04/03 - Size 3.4mb)
      
Panels         v1.4.1    Mac OS Z-9.2.2            (Created 04/04/01 - Size 1.3mb)

System                                 (Date Created 02/08/98 - Size 18.5mb)
System Resources   vZ1-9.2.2 Mac OS Z-9.2.2 (1mb file)      (Date Created 16/11/01 - Modified 22/11/01 - Size 1mb)

Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2014, 04:53:34 PM »
from the previous post - so the MDD FW800 operates as classic only and MDD FW400 system is bootable.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2014, 05:07:06 PM »
I have uploaded the OS9General FW800 file to the file section but heres the differences between
the system files in the system folder for the OS9General Image for the FW400 computers
and the FW800 computers;
Is that "OS9General FW800" the AHT 2.0.1 ? Is the MacOS9 for MDD'03 EDU?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 05:14:13 PM by Protools5LEGuy »
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Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2014, 05:31:19 PM »
This is from the Install DVD for the powermac MDD G4 FW800. I just showed up the invisible files
and extracted the OS9General.dmg

Although I also have the install DVD for the PMG4 FW400 that has AHT2.0.2 for those introduced in
2003.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2014, 06:06:02 PM »
Although I also have the install DVD for the PMG4 FW400 that has AHT2.0.2 for those introduced in
2003.
Can you show us these
2003 models EDU MacOS9
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Offline Jakl

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Re: Downgrade firmware of FW800 for OS9 comp.
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2014, 06:18:06 PM »
Do you mean upload?

My uploads on the site are very slow. I have been trying to
put a few 6-700 mb cd images up and still haven't been
successful. So a DVD image would not work.