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[Knezzen]

Finally, after a lot of hard work it's finally here; Mac OS 9 Lives 2.0.
The new forum theme has been set to the default theme for everyone. If you want to revert to the old theme you can do so in your Profile --> Look and Feel settings.
All the links are now working and the rest of the downloads that used to be available through the forum are accessible over Hotline and Gopher. Don't know what does two are? Make sure to read about Hotline in our Hotlline section and about Gopher in the OS 9 and the internet article.

So what do you guys think of the new site? Missing something or want to contribute?Regardless, I hope you enjoy the new site

[ssp3]

First impression - TOO BLEACHED OUT!

Just like when Apple changed to that fugly UI beginning with Mavericks.

Not enough contrast!

Not enough color!

Not enough color contrast!

All I see is white-ish piece of paper with lots of small text.

Very un-OS9 like. More like Windows 10.


Its all there, from the UI guru himself. Read it!

https://asktog.com/atc/principles-of-interaction-design/

* Principle: Aesthetic design should be left to those schooled and skilled in its application: Graphic/visual designers
* Principle: Fashion should never trump usability
* Principle: Do not strip away or overwhelm color cues in the interface because of a passing graphic-design fad.
* Principle: Text that must be read should have high contrast
* Principle: Use font sizes that are large enough to be readable on standard displays

[Knezzen]

Alright. Constructive criticism is good. What about the content, ssp3?

[ssp3]

Content? I can hardly navigate to see content. Not enough visual cues.

I'll let you know in a moment when I have recovered from the shock.

[Knezzen]

I'll let you know in a moment when I have recovered from the shock.

Sending prayers for a speedy recovery.

[IIO]

I'll let you know in a moment when I have recovered from the shock.

leave color contrast to paintings - black on white is perfect for text information, just as on the site you linked to.

just go back to the old theme

[ssp3]

Sending prayers for a speedy recovery.

It's not funny, Knezzen.

It's your site, you can do with it whatever you want, but this one is not for me at the moment. Sorry.

Here's another guru on visual design (in German, CC is available for those who don't speak that language):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw0syzCeH4Q

A little background, so that you all don't think that I'm some internet troll..
I've been around artists and musicians, some of them quite prominent, all my life. Some were close to my parents, I myself too have made many friends from those circles during my life. That's my "scene". My better half has a degree in arts. She worked for ten years for glossy fashion mag as photo editor, before leaving that rat's race and switching to teaching painting and composition in arts school. I met her at the opening of an exhibition of my friend, who is industrial designer and has his works in the collection of our national arts museum.
While she was at the mag, we did quite a lot of product photography for that mag. Mostly spreads. (That's where my background in display calibration comes from).
I/we also do some product/packaging photo stuff for one large kitchen appliances brand from time to time. I see the results of our work on the shelves in the shops.. Got those jobs thru another friend who is full time graphic designer and does all the packaging for that brand, aside from regular "mags, booklets, calendars, posters and websites".

So, I have a pretty good idea how visual stuff works.

[IIO]

the video you linked to is also black on white.^^

[ssp3]

Yes, but not grey on white, grey on light grey, grey on light blue or light blue on light grey.
And you've missed the point. It's about mistakes of those designers that "don't read the text, only look at it". (Die lesen ja nix, die sehen ja nur, die kucken).


That flashing bright yellow "New" on bright red looks like something from the 90s to me. "Sale" sticker/banner are first that came to my mind.


Seriously, guys, are you reading the new site on 1920x1200 displays set to 800x600 or smartphones? I get an eye strain reading it on my 13" MacBook Pro.

[ssp3]

Also, a lot of wasted space. The actual text occupies maybe only 50% of the width of the page.

[Mat]

Hmm, …

I don´t know … In general I never was a friend of websites that are imitating parts of operating systems. Especially I do not like the "retro-factor" that is implicite in such kind of websites through the design. And as you know Mac OS 9 is a daily driver for me, not any fun or retro stuff.
Also ssp3s critique has some true points (especially the blinking "new"-gifs are ugly). But for me it appears not that hard. In general I see the "problem" like at many projects, that the "tool", and the "look" is forcing the content and the usability into paths, instead of thinking about the aim, and selecting the tools and an useful design for the aims.
I will test it the upcoming days with my 9 machines extensively. ATM I have the impression that it will work better and with a better general overview at Classilla.

As always I am missing a graphics/layout/DTP section, which is in my opinion also still a huge use case for Mac OS 9. Be it at the website itselve or the forum.

But aside all the critique, I have to say, i could have contributed before (and Knez as Bolkonskij tried hard), and I did not. So accepting and especially esteeming the work of others is needed. I know how frustrating it is if you put massive work into something and just critique is coming back. So please take my huge THANK YOU for all the efforts you put into the new page!

Let's see how it developes and what improvements are really "needed" after a periode of habituation. And finally I am extremely glad that things are getting "simpler" and more compatible with older machines, and not newer and forced to mobilephone-design or other modern crap!

[Knezzen]

Also ssp3s critique has some true points (especially the blinking "new"-gifs are ugly).

True, they are a bit over the top. I will change the gif file for the one from the old theme.

As always I am missing a graphics/layout/DTP section, which is in my opinion also still a huge use case for Mac OS 9. Be it at the website itselve or the forum.

There's a need for a DTP section indeed. If you'd like to contribute one I'll of course ad it to the website! It's hard to write about a topic that I have never touched upon (well, a bit at school but not much).

But aside all the critique, I have to say, i could have contributed before (and Knez as Bolkonskij tried hard), and I did not. So accepting and especially esteeming the work of others is needed. I know how frustrating it is if you put massive work into something and just critique is coming back. So please take my huge THANK YOU for all the efforts you put into the new page!

No, thank YOU, Mat! We have worked hard on this and feel like it's a move in the right direction to differentiate Mac OS 9 Lives from other "retro Mac" type of websites. There's insane amounts of collective competence here about Mac OS 9 and I really want to spread to the world that it's still a viable platform for creative work.

[fjugue]

So what do you guys think of the new site? Missing something or want to contribute?Regardless, I hope you enjoy the new site

It's great! I think it's a move in the right direction. I like how it's toned down and serious. After all, we put our classic Macs to work.

I agree with ssp3's critiques though. New theme looks great on the forum actually, but the homepage is terrible, especially with OS X's font smoothing. Then we have to remember, this website will be accessed by devices that have screens with poor contrast and viewing angles.

I'm not very experienced but I would love to work on the redesign.

[Windoze]

What I really don't like is the fixed width and the menu on the left.
That leaves too little space for the actual content.
I'm back on the old design for now...

[IIO]

And you've missed the point.

that´s obvious.

what could have been the point? that you could have done it better because you know many artists?

on one hand you say it is "not OS9 like" and on the other hand you also do not like that looks like "something from the 90ies."

then you say it would be to small, where in fact it is about as broad as the old theme. and uses the same font.

then you said it would not be colorful enough. the text has been b/w before, too, and there is nothing better for readability.

hard to take any of those comment serious, i first thought you were joking!

Seriously, guys, are you reading the new site on 1920x1200 displays set to 800x600 or smartphones?

the new theme looks like most other forums, some discourse based forums are even smaller.

modern browers let you zoom websites and remember that for next time. i look at both themes at 133% - which i do for most websites -  and they both have about the same size.

and in macos9 times nobody made his brower windows fullscreen, you regulary only used a smaller window. the majority of our users do not run 3*1920*1200 like you and me, go look what the first imac had as monitor resolution.

sure, the space at the side could be a bit smaller, it seems wasted. however that is actually more a problem for those with small monitors.
 
 

As always I am missing a graphics/layout/DTP section, which is in my opinion also still a huge use case for Mac OS 9. Be it at the website itselve or the forum.

didn´t we once had one and nobody used it? can´t remember.
i would welcome one, as i am a PS user myself. and i already had a question once about wacom which resulted in helpful replies.

but honestly i think that user group will not grow over 3-5 people.

i am preparing the upload 500+ PS and AE plug-ins to the new file section, which will be like several full days of work, and that is crazy enough for the 3-5 people who might want them.

not to speak of the fact that during the last 9 years nobody was interested in that topic when i suggested it.

knez just cleaned out some of the forums because we thought there re too many categories... if you make one for design and print you can also make one for games and one for realbasic and then one day we have 100 forums, if you know what i mean.

we rather need editors to write articles which sum up the information from the forums - and an optimized search function... not more places to hide information.

[thecookfamily]

 Wow, this loads faster for me! Great job.

[Jubadub]

Personally, I like the theme, it works well for me. I agree with the "extra white space", but it'd be a looooot of work to get this to cooperate nicely with older browsers, while simultaneously addressing this. Not something I would ever want to code myself, honestly, unless if I was paid ultra well. But this all was done free, which I find really admirable... I know I couldn't have done it.

To me, it's not a big enough issue that it would make me switch back to the older theme. I find the current theme preferable, but I also feel reassured we have the older theme to switch back to at any point in time, in case we ever want to set it in our user profile.

About readability, font size etc., there are no problems whatsoever on my side. It's all the exact same as before. Maybe the text inside the "Forum Options" box could be a wee tad bit bigger? Though I find it fine as is.

I'm speaking from the point of view of a 1920x1200 user, so yeah, I'm not bothered by the white spaces much like that. If I was, I think I would just switch back to the old theme in my profile. Having the option = win-win for all of us? Admittedly, this theme looks best with a CRT or other 1024x768 monitor, as @Bolkonskij already explained to us when the screenshot of the theme was first shared in another topic, so I don't understand the sudden reaction of surprise only now, but not then.

Regardless... It's good to voice opinions, as long as they are constructive etc.. So although I didn't contribute to these commendable and thankless efforts, I thank everyone for sharing your opinions (like I did), and obviously a special thank you to @Bolkonskij and @Knez both for pouring sweat, blood and tears into this! Personally, I like it the way it is, no "real" qualms from me.

[ssp3]

@IIO, what you write is not fair. You're twisting facts and are getting personal.
I could go thru your message point by point, but I won't.

@Knezzen asked for opinions - I voiced mine. Somewhat harsh? Maybe. But that's how I and others in my circles operate in real life. "Perfect" is the target. No handling with soft gloves, no patting each other on the back. Helps to survive and bring food to the table. Sorry if I ofended someone..

What the owner of this site does with it is up to him. I'm only a guest here. I've switched to the old layout for the moment. If the owner decides to switch to new design permanently, I will probably read less and write less. But it's not a big deal, the world will not go under, there's life outside of MacOS9Lives! forum.

[Knezzen]

I've switched to the old layout for the moment. If the owner decides to switch to new design permanently, I will probably read less and write less. But it's not a big deal, the world will not go under, there's life outside of MacOS9Lives! forum.

Very true! This is only the internet so let's not argue, shall we? I won't remove the old forum theme. I can assure you that it will stick around as an alternative for as long as I run the site.

On the subjet of content btw, I don't see any reason not to have a specific topic represented here (like DTP, which was and is a big Mac centric nieche) but I can't be the one who writes about stuff out of scope for my competence. I will however write a lot about what I do know about Mac OS 9 and what I continue to use it for on a daily basis.

I have started working on "plugin of the month" and I hope to publish it in early June. If anyone have ideas of their own, please do step forward and write a piece or ten and I'll gladly publish them

[Architecture]

I'll be doing a show called "This Old DAW", which I will be covering focused on vintage DAWs based on Mac System 7 to OS9 DAWs (in some cases PPC and early Intel OSX). Would love to give macos9lives a shoutout if the group approves of it.