Noob building DAW

[smilesdavis]

Adat has sync signal

[GaryN]

NO. S/PDIF carries digital audio only. No data - sync or otherwise.

digital audio is a form of "sync", too, as soon as it supports certain types of drivers.

Adat has sync signal

Seriously you guys? OK… Is this acceptable?

NO. The S/PDIF port on the VS-1680 carries digital audio only. No data - sync or otherwise.

[daddyjeff]

Hey guys help me out, my roomy has a bunch of music equipment and I want to help him setup an OS 9 DAW, but I know nothing of this stuff.

The main equipment he has is a Roland VS-1680 and a Yamaha YPG-535 and some other mixing boards we haven't unpacked yet along with 10's of high end guitars.

Looking to set him up with OS 9 on a dual 867Mhz MDD just to get his feet wet in some of the simpler software before we move hm to the latter stuff that has way too many options to learn for a noob if that makes sense to you guys?

It really is not difficult to get the idea when you use a computer that thousands of musicians used in the world back in the 2000s, the G4 was very top and great productions were made, from os9 and panther, prince had a G4 for his musical ideas in the 2000s.

I discovered that to have a multitrack recorder with great features I did not need to spend 5000 dollars on studio equipment, no really no, never do that, these expensive things are only for those who know how to handle everything, you don't need an analog 1176 to sound warm and professional.

the music creator, he doesn't need a lot of money to do what he wants, and if he has a lot of equipment for the studio he just has to use that equipment on a mac with os9 or whatever he likes best.

I use mac os9 because the operating system enjoyed a lot of emerging software from the 2000s, the first versions of everything we know today, everything is really very useful and very easy, there are things that today are complicated and after paying a fortune you you find that it is not what you were looking for, and this happened to me before and I decided to do things with metasynth, artmatic, pro tools, and standalone synthesizers with a recorder like ABsynth that I love this thing, because I get very unique sounds, too I really like FM7, I'm a big fan of this synthesizer.

my G4 has the stock sound card and I can route the audio output to the input of my DIGI001, when I want to use FM7 or anything that doesn't work with asio or problems of some kind and the sound is not bad at all, really It does it without noise, everything is very clean.

So I would just recommend that your friend join os9, install a solo DAW and start working on things with his guitars. 

[ssp3]

Late Walter Sear had something to say about it. 

High Tech, Low Quality: Studio Gadgets Cannot Replace Professional Production(Billboard Editorial - June 19, 2004)
http://searsound.com/pdf/hightech_lowquality.pdf

http://searsound.com/pdf/surgery.pdf

http://searsound.com/clients.html

[rvense]

NO. S/PDIF carries digital audio only. No data - sync or otherwise.

digital audio is a form of "sync", too, as soon as it supports certain types of drivers.

Adat has sync signal

Seriously you guys? OK… Is this acceptable?

NO. The S/PDIF port on the VS-1680 carries digital audio only. No data - sync or otherwise.

It depends what you mean by sync. There is no such thing as a digital audio connection without converter clock sync. In ADAT and S/PDIF, this clock is part of the audio stream and can be recovered from it. If you connect the digital output of the 1680 to a digital input on your soundcard, you will need to set the soundcard to external clock sync to get a good recording, otherwise the converter clocks will be unsychronized and it'll glitch.

But it's of course true that there's no transport sync etc. in S/PDIF. For that you'd use MIDI, and I'd be surprised if 1680 isn't perfectly capable of it, since it's from an era when slaving an ADAT or similar was a common thing.

[IIO]

Adat has sync signal

even better, from most digital audio formats you can use the audio stream to derive a word clock signal from.

adat is one of them but it works the same way with spdif or aes/ebu.

and here is the fun part: under OSX you need to connect word clock between two linked firewire interfaces, but under MacOS9 it works via the firewire cable.

[daddyjeff]

Adat has sync signal

even better, from most digital audio formats you can use the audio stream to derive a word clock signal from.

adat is one of them but it works the same way with spdif or aes/ebu.

and here is the fun part: under OSX you need to connect word clock between two linked firewire interfaces, but under MacOS9 it works via the firewire cable.

yes, os9 really has these interesting things, many details more suitable for the hardware of its time. 

[daddyjeff]

Late Walter Sear had something to say about it. 

High Tech, Low Quality: Studio Gadgets Cannot Replace Professional Production(Billboard Editorial - June 19, 2004)
http://searsound.com/pdf/hightech_lowquality.pdf

http://searsound.com/pdf/surgery.pdf

http://searsound.com/clients.html

If I am also in that idea, where music technology will not make you a better musician. No AI will make you more humanly better, and within the limits of humanity, the capable music of a person will be valued, not what a person is capable of programming an AI

I remember that in the 90s with the DATs from alesis, tascam, fostex... great things could be done, to record on 8 tracks.

Dj Shadow (josh davis) used an Alesis DAT to record his most famous album Entroducing and everything was recorded as a one hour DJ session for 8 separate tracks, this was then taken to a more professional studio and prepared to make his best version of all that he recorded, that's right, he did everything like that, with a DJ equipment with Akai MPC-60, a Technics 1200+mixer, and an Alesis ADAT.

(DJ Shadow could never get over him, perhaps because he stopped using that limited equipment that made him bring out the best creative inner musician in him.)

Music technology with limitations makes the person use different uses with their imagination and when that is missing, it is no longer as good or interesting, there is less interpretative quality in everything musical and the same results no longer come out... SP1200 is music technology, casio cz101 too, but it's not the same as being played by vangelis or dj muggs, bob marley or RZA (it's just sarcasm) 

That sampler is more limited than the garage band on your iphone but SP1200 lets you be more of a musician.

Sometimes if you change your tools and your ways of composing you can fail 100%.

No, no operating system makes you a better musician, but if it gives you options to be a little more hard-working and not expect everything to be done by the computer, the sampler or the synthesizer, well, perhaps the merit and effort that you put in is even more valuable. It means creating that music and immortalizing it.

the famous cycling74 ¨M¨ software was another revolution, which was never something very famous, but MAX offered many esoteric things that you could do in the 2000´s, giving different uses to an MS20.

so os9 can do as much as you want to do, it's really nothing new, any noiser with a modular can do the same with Reaktor, reason or Max.

Everything will depend on the attitude you have towards music and technology. 

[GaryN]

Maybe you guys should just get a room.

The QUESTION was:

The VS-1680 can sync via SPIDF Optical to Logic Pro 8 for the Mac and that will allow some added functionality?
Maybe file transfer? or even just 2 track digital import into Logic Pro?

The ANSWER was:
NO. S/PDIF carries digital audio only. No data - sync or otherwise.
As in: No, you can't get sync and/or control signals such as MTC into and/or out of the S/PDIF connections on the VS-1680 and/or transfer files and/or import audio to Logic and/or other DAW on a Mac.

** Note to rvense: You're correct in that the VS will happily spit MTC over MIDI for whatever to sync to. However, the question and answer was regarding the S/PDIF port.

[IIO]

if anyone wants to know how to do make use of the clock signal contained in the spdif signal to record from or to the roland please refer to the manual. because it is all described there how to select the correct clock source to sync the decive to other devices.

on the internet there is just too much misinformation about it.

[DieHard]

OK, since we all have opinions, I can't help but make this absolutely "muddy" thread even worse...

Late Walter Sear had something to say about it

It 2004, I would have agreed, but in 2023... Nope.  He definitely sounded bitter about "shooting himself in the foot" with his music industry adopting newer technologies and he also sounded a little "pissed off" about project musicians owning a "project studio"  His "Do brain surgery at home" yada yada yada was obviously a reference to "do recordings at home."  He obviously thought of himself as a brain surgeon (the profession) and now mere mortals were recording at home, god forbid they were doing what he was trained to do, and not paying studio time for it.

I say fuck Walter Sear, I really don't care what or who he recorded.  This new "virtual" audio recording world that he so "despised" was very exciting to me. Walter couldn't stop it and he focused on the negative.  Did it mean that a lot of untalented people, now made "virtual music" that was pale in comparison to his "glory day" era ?  Yeah, sure, whatever, but this put semi-pro recording studios in reach of many talented people also, not everyone was a hack... and what about "not so great" musicians having some inexpensive fun

In 2002, I had 2 fairly close friends in NYC that owned real studios that recorded Blondie, Joan Jett, and many more and at that time I could not afford recording in their studios, although I did get a few "free" or barter sessions for swapping PC consulting time.  I remember a few dinner and lunch discussions were they they were "spooked" about where things were going... and that the days of making albums as they were accustomed to... were over... and yes, they were right.  I helped run the Steinberg booth at the Mac Expo in 2000 in NYC so they would often ask me my opinion if they had anything to worry about and I would say, "There will always be a market that for a Pro studio that has masted the use of Telefunken Mics, a huge piano room, and a nice live Drum setup; but the clientele will be shrinking about 80 to 90 percent in the next 10 years"  Don't know the real figures, but whatever.

I had a client, who was also a friend, Johnny Maestro, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brooklyn_Bridge_(band), and he was very excited about recording at home and using PCs with MIDI (Voyetra) and handing his label a finished song.  Did Walter think Johnny was un-talented for using the new technology ?  I mean this guy sang "16 Candles" for god sakes [youtube]NlXlZb18F20[/youtube]

Johnny was a monster on vocals and he was very excited about all the new technology.  The point being, advances in technology did not kill the music, just the industry.  Maybe it needed some changes anyway.  I bet Walter made more money recording the sessions than many of the musicians he recorded. 

Now fast forward to today, Roland cloud (virtual) sounds pretty damn close to the "real" thing.  Walter's Tuba instrument has been sampled to the point that it probably sounds as good if not better than him playing it. If Walter was that mad in 2004, imagine when ChatGP writes the next #1 single in 2023, lol. 

Lastly, back to the original topic.  Think your buddy is still better off with a newer machine and newer OS than OS9 since he will not have to put as much more time in the learning aspect.  Don't get me wrong, I love OS 9 and music, hell I started this site, but you have to weigh out how much time and effort he wants to put in on the technician side vs the musician side.

[daddyjeff]

if anyone wants to know how to do make use of the clock signal contained in the spdif signal to record from or to the roland please refer to the manual. because it is all described there how to select the correct clock source to sync the decive to other devices.

on the internet there is just too much misinformation about it.

Yes, a lot of shit information, pure garbage and quite useless for mac os9 issues.
that's why we walk in anthropology os9. 🤪

[daddyjeff]

Chat GPT is going to be bought by Sony and will let it die of laughter, AI companies are going to have their days numbered.

Who wants a new vinyl of a new song from a dead man?

I don't, and I really don't care that it's the same, I never bought those unreleased songs because they already had commercial traps to scratch people's money.

fuck AI and Chat GPT 

[GaryN]

if anyone wants to know how to do make use of the clock signal contained in the spdif signal to record from or to the roland please refer to the manual. because it is all described there how to select the correct clock source to sync the decive to other devices.

on the internet there is just too much misinformation about it.

Yes, a lot of shit information, pure garbage and quite useless for mac os9 issues.
that's why we walk in anthropology os9. 🤪

The correct way to record from a S/PDIF output is to……………………  Plug it into a S/PDIF input.

There is not so much misinformation as there is is just incorrnfjinripwrjkpsnw  ARRRGH!

NO!  MUST…………LET…………THIS…………DAMN…………THING…………DIE !!

[daddyjeff]

if anyone wants to know how to do make use of the clock signal contained in the spdif signal to record from or to the roland please refer to the manual. because it is all described there how to select the correct clock source to sync the decive to other devices.

on the internet there is just too much misinformation about it.

Yes, a lot of shit information, pure garbage and quite useless for mac os9 issues.
that's why we walk in anthropology os9. 🤪

The correct way to record from a S/PDIF output is to……………………  Plug it into a S/PDIF input.

There is not so much misinformation as there is is just incorrnfjinripwrjkpsnw  ARRRGH!

NO!  MUST…………LET…………THIS…………DAMN…………THING…………DIE !!

[ssp3]

The correct way to record from a S/PDIF output is to……………………  Plug it into a S/PDIF input.

And then, if your device's (on receiving side) clock source has been set to analog input, some different sample rate or Word Clock, you get either glitches or nothing at all.

Plugging in alone might not always work, unless the receiving device has been made so idiot proof, that it always auto-configures itself.

As IIO said - consult the manual.

[smilesdavis]

if anyone wants to know how to do make use of the clock signal contained in the spdif signal to record from or to the roland please refer to the manual. because it is all described there how to select the correct clock source to sync the decive to other devices.

on the internet there is just too much misinformation about it.

Yes, a lot of shit information, pure garbage and quite useless for mac os9 issues.
that's why we walk in anthropology os9. 🤪

The correct way to record from a S/PDIF output is to……………………  Plug it into a S/PDIF input.

There is not so much misinformation as there is is just incorrnfjinripwrjkpsnw  ARRRGH!

NO!  MUST…………LET…………THIS…………DAMN…………THING…………DIE !!

sound tools, audiomedia  and pro tools I would never be possible without S/PDIF. i cant live without it.

[darthnVader]

Ok, I'm trying to keep up.

So is anyone using a AppleSoC MacBook Pro and Logic with some USB equipment for some nice "home" studio?

Would the M2 13" MBP be ok?

Could anyone recommend a setup for this to interface with Logic and the Yamaha YPG-53 as well as all the needed analog stuff for the Mics and analog instruments?

Hoping to come in around a $1000 for the interfaces and preamps if they are needed, is that anywhere near realistic?

Logic is $199 on the App Store, should I look at something else software wise for the Mac? or what other software might we need to go with Logic.

My M2 MacBook came in around $1600, so right now I'm hoping to come in around $2800 to make the old man happy with a new setup and I'll just see what I can do with his VS system and the equipment I have just for me to learn how some of this old stuff worked back in the day.

You guys know I love PPC, so I already found an external SCSI CDR with a woking drive and all the needed cables for the VS and my SCSI Mac's. Had to pull the trigger as these things with the cable are so rare now.

I'll get you a list of his other equipment soon, hoping you can tell me what we can use and what we just want to store.

[darthnVader]

Maybe you guys should just get a room.

The QUESTION was:

The VS-1680 can sync via SPIDF Optical to Logic Pro 8 for the Mac and that will allow some added functionality?
Maybe file transfer? or even just 2 track digital import into Logic Pro?

The ANSWER was:
NO. S/PDIF carries digital audio only. No data - sync or otherwise.
As in: No, you can't get sync and/or control signals such as MTC into and/or out of the S/PDIF connections on the VS-1680 and/or transfer files and/or import audio to Logic and/or other DAW on a Mac.

** Note to rvense: You're correct in that the VS will happily spit MTC over MIDI for whatever to sync to. However, the question and answer was regarding the S/PDIF port.

I'm still quite confused, the SPDIF can't be recorded?

Mix a song on the VS "down mixed" to 2 ch stereo audio and capture the digital stream on a computer via SPDIF then import that into Logic or GB?

[ssp3]

I'm still quite confused, the SPDIF can't be recorded?

It can.

Mix a song on the VS "down mixed" to 2 ch stereo audio and capture the digital stream on a computer via SPDIF then import that into Logic or GB?

Yes.

Or capture separate tracks in pairs via SPDIF in Logic and mix there. This might be somewhat complicated (digital output assignment in VS-1680) and will require track relative position adjustment in Logic.