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[FBz]

Nomenclature?

Anyone decipher the difference between…
           AS331 V1.5 and the MCA004 V1.3?


Testing IDE/SATA adapters for use in G4 Mac mini.

Both appear identical, otherwise.
The IDE44-SATA-FSB is yet to arrive here.

[IDE44-SATA22F is “out” due to necessary mobo mods (for fit).]

[FBz]

2.5 SSD STRIPPING
brown-chicken brown-cow

Thrilling Digital Porn?
(Perhaps to some.)

And - as mentioned by DieHard and many others here
                                                                    … it’s easy!

Have opened 2.5 Phillips, Inland, OWC and Crucial SSDs lately to place them into Mac Minis. The OWCs have screws holding them together. The Crucial SSD was the easiest to open and the Inland & Phillips SSDs are very easily pried open. I cut the end from an Inland to peer inside first, in order to see just where the SSD was and how much space it occupied. Of course if careful, you can place them back into their cases afterwards (if necessary). And yes, this surgery likely voids any manufacturer’s warranty. Another reason that initial trial testing / formatting in an MDD or QS (before the extraction) might be a good idea.

Here’s the Inland SSD with the end cut off and then contents revealed…






OWC 120 GB… just looks larger in this picture.


SSD attached to 2005 Mac mini Interconnect board
w/ SATA2IDE44VAO (AS331V1.5) adapter.

[DieHard]

Wow, I finally calmed down, those "naked" SSDs are very sexy.

At any rate, I am guessing the bottleneck is the interconnect board, so tests should reveal the same speeds as mSata solutions...
but much cheaper cost than an mSata drive coupled with our top-shelf Amazon mSata adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017VQT5YW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

What is the cost breakdown of this new solution ?

[FBz]

480GB SSD / Mac Mini
*Partitioned a Crucial BX500 480 GB SSD using Drive Setup 2.1 - into 4 partitions.
[Using the SATA2IDE44VAO (AS331V1.5) adapter.]



Set first partition size to 120 GB / result = 117.19GB (installed OS 9.2.2)
2nd partition then yielded 106.38 GB (installed OS 10.4 Tiger)
3rd partition space = 11.78 GB
4th partition space = 11.78 GB

*Drive Setup 1.9.2 would only allow 120 GB partition for use.
Yes, I now promise to stop harping about Drive Setup 1.9.2
and… the JMicron / JM20330 chipsets vs. the Marvell war.


From OS 10.4 Tiger, System Report


From OS 9.2.2 Apple System Profiler

*Used original Mac Mini install disc set to install OS 10.4 on the 1.42 GHz Mini
… after initial partitioning with Drive Setup 2.1 and the OS 9.2.2 installation.

SSDs must be removed from their cases to fit within the confines of the Mini,
likely voiding any warranty from the SSD manufacturers. However, this may
improve internal cooling of the Mini due to less-restricted internal airflow(?).

[FBz]

And, that's a Wrap.

Comparison tested two types of horizontal mount, 44 pin IDE-SATA adapters…
versus the AbleConn type mSATA sleds in G4 Mac Minis. Cost vs. performance.

While the approach necessitates removal of the actual SSD from 2.5 enclosures
(which is a very easy undertaking) it also: (1). Makes it easier to swap use of the
2.5 based SSDs from the 44 pin adapters - back & forth between 40 pin adapters
in MDDs, Quicksilvers etcetera, and (2). Also likely improves the overall cooling
within the close-quarter confines of the Mac mini… with a less-restricted airflow.

Tests were done using 120 GB - Inland, Phillips and OWC SSDs and a Crucial
(BX500) 480GB SSD. Once again, using Drive Setup 2.1 (instead of 1.9.2) for
formatting and partitioning of the SSDs. Both versions of Drive Setup are on
the latest version Mac mini install disc but 1.9.2 pre-loads at boot with the disc.
Simply quit 1.9.2 and find / open 2.1 instead. After format / partitioning… select
restore in place and the option that does not erase before the restore.

Testing was done with 1.25, 1.42 and 1.5 GHz Mac Minis, the above listed SSDs
and two different, horizontal oriented adapters. One, noted as a SATA2IDE44VAO
(AS331 V1.5) and the other, an IDE44-SATA-FSB (MCA004 V1.3)

Vertical oriented IDE44-SATA22F adapter was also tested but found problematic.
(Due to the restrictive space constraints inside all of the G4 Minis.)



While a very small performance difference is noted, the cost vs. performance tilts
to the adapters, given that they are ten to $20 dollars less-expensive than sleds.
(Especially $$$ important if you’ve more than one Mini to convert to SSD.)

All SSDs were two-partitioned with Drive Setup 2.1 and first-partition installed 9.2.2.
Afterwards, OS 10.4 or 10.4.2 (1.5 GHz Mini) was installed on the 2nd partition.
*The Crucial (BX500) 480 GB SSD was four-partitioned.

The SATA2IDE44VAO AS331 V1.5 was sourced from:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/302898697852?hash=item46862b567c:g:HMoAAOSwHTlbqzQt
($9.32 w/shipping) *Price currently lowered to $9.00 each w/ Free Shipping.
And although there had been some difficulty concerning shipping charges with
multiple units (new eBay seller constraints / charges) this has been addressed.
Of course unit prices are better, ordered direct from China… if those ever arrive.

The IDE44-SATA-FSB (MCA004 V1.3) is a bit more finicky installation which
requires a bit more coaxing. (Odd, when it looks almost identical to the other.)
Almost wrote these off until retesting w/ more patience and Safe Boot to disable
some bothersome extensions. Very good U.S. based source for these:
https://www.microsatacables.com/44-pin-ide-to-7-15-pin-sata-adapter-ide44-sata-fsb
Their other adapters:
https://www.microsatacables.com/drive-adapters-and-drive-converters/ide-adapters

No jumper required for either of the above tested adapters in a G4 Mac Mini.


Notice how much smaller the Crucial 480 SSD is compared to the Inland 120?
Red dot (right image) on adhesive-backed foam is an added, applied “bumper”
…for some slight clearance with the optical drive when final-installed.


Side view, sans optical drive.

[IIO]

random read 1kb 3.6mb/s

LOL, new definition of IDE speed.

[IIO]

<3

[DieHard]

One of the most Epic Posts ever...

The amount of work and man hours done at Riverview Labs is daunting !

For those looking to buy or upgrade a Mac mini and run OS9, this is critical reference material with all the work already done.

I will be sending a Diehard care package out to the lab as soon as possible...

Oh and lastly, Diehard has partnered with the lab and jointly acquired 150 IDE/SATA adapters for G4 desktops that will be offered to members at a ridiculously low price staying with our goal of making upgrades on old macs possible for those on a low budget so stay tuned

[IIO]

acquired 150 [...] SATA adapters [...] low budget

i can´t hear you, what did you say.

you can probably send half of them to germany. should we already collect orders?

[IIO]

some use the full lenght of a 2.5" case, others only half of it. about time to get an overview.

[FBz]

Don’t know, IIO.
Only tested brand new 120GB and 480GB “naked” SSDs.

But if you’ve some of the larger “full-size” SSDs (that you pictured)… please test and report.
Appears that they may indeed fit, once removed from their cases, as there is a “shelf” /
under which their extended length might actually be accommodated .



Then there’s also a possible concern about larger capacity SSDs with the tested adapters,
as Micro SATA Cables notes: “Works with all SATA Drives up to 500GB”.

No SSD larger than the 480GB here, so I cannot test with either of the two adapters.

[IIO]

oh, 500 gb. well, for most people it will be okay of course, but that is quite a limitation.

about the allowed lenght, could you measure how long the adapter is? that is all you need to know. "full length" should be too big.

but i could not find a listing of how all SSD look from inside, anyway.

i will check that with the help of photoshop later.

(to be honest, we also dont know yet if there is a limit for the concurring "white case" solution - my biggest m2 also only is a 256gb.)

[Hyram]

oh, 500 gb. well, for most people it will be okay of course, but that is quite a limitation.

It's a limit caused by ATA/6 which never really anticipated higher capacities, and with SATA becoming the norm at the time further work on refining the ATA spec got shelved permanently. Sometimes you can find an adaptor and host controller that can work over the 500GB limit reliably, but they all tend to be specialised and Windows-only.

Don't forget, we all started thinking a 40 megabyte hard drive was the wide open spaces that would never be filled

[FBz]

Hi-ya, Hyram!
“Sometimes you can find an adaptor and host
controller that can work over the 500GB limit…”

Don’t know if that 500GB limitation is also true with
SATA2IDE44VAO (AS331 V1.5) as it is only noted
with the IDE44-SATA-FSB (MCA004 V1.3). AND as
they have different identifier and revision numbers,
we won’t know until tested. The SATA2IDE44VAO
(AS331 V1.5) may not have the 500GB limitation.

And the IDE44-SATA-FSB dimensions are noted as:
2.72” x 0.55” x 0.69” (L 69mm x D 14mm x H 17mm)
and as the two adapters are almost identical, seems
that you might +.125” (3.175mm) to the 0.55” to allow
for the gap (at junction) between the naked SSD and
the adapter PCB when joined.



Measured inside the existing plastic framework and with
the “shelf” taken into consideration, it appears that the
available space for a naked SSD would be 3.75 inches.
(Slightly more if the speaker’s removed.) And that’s also
allowing for the adapter in place / not added to that 3.75.
Can easily fit two of the “half-size” back-to-back, without
even entering that added shelf space.

Don’t remember the costs of IIO's “white case” mSata but
aren’t they more costly than these - especially after adding
the cost of the mSata? And are they not also capable of the
same or similar simple benchmark performance? They’re
the same JMICRON JM20330 chipset.

PARTITIONS GALORE?
Would like to test a 1TB SSD with the SATA2IDE44VAO
(AS331 V1.5) and the IDE44-SATA-FSB (in spite of the
“up to 500 GB” statement) - but I’ve no actual need. I do
wonder if the newer SSDs of such larger capacity would
need that much additional space for install? Hopefully
they’re now available in smaller, actual physical sizes.

*The reduced size of the Crucial 480GB SSD surprised
  me, especially when compared to the 120GB SSDs.

Then there’s this olde information treasure trove…
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2765.msg17150.html#msg17150
-although not Mini-centic, still very pertinent background info.

Note: "very pertinent..."
Hell, read the entire thread. GOLD!!!

[IIO]

It's a limit caused by ATA/6 which never really anticipated higher capacities

the size limit of ATA controllers should be a lot higher than that and the "normal" "cheap green" adapters do support 2 TB disks just fine.

(@FBz: i wonder if that would also be true for the "bribge" ones?)

in theory SATA 6 (or "apples" SATA 5 @ 48 bit) offers 144 petabytes. though i would not not be suprised if the mac mini G4 had some weird size limit.

however, it is the first time i hear that an SATA convertor comes with a denoted size limit for itself.

it could be enlightening to try that adapter with a 1 TB drive - and when it doesnt work, try it with a bigger block size.

[IIO]

I do
wonder if the newer SSDs of such larger capacity would
need that much additional space for install? Hopefully
they’re now available in smaller, actual physical sizes.

we would probably find both.

since there are 16 TB and 24 TB consumer SSDs for a while, you could think that a 1 TB or 2 TB case should be almost emtpy.

but there are for sure enough "older format" series on the market which are "full" or which are always full size regardless the memory.

i can currently not help with that.

[IIO]

"white case" is for me in europe - when you wait for a good offer from china (4-12 weeks delivery) around USD 17 for m2 and around USD 20 for mSata

compared to "green" (bigger with 2 big capacitors) which is around USD 5 and luxury/masterslaveoption delock/startech slegde starting at USD 35

(all prices including shipping)

[FBz]

Yes, the “green” (bigger with 2 big capacitors - the RXD’s) are for other G4 models.
Discussed here are the smaller “green” 44-pin adapters intended for the Mac mini.

*MicroSATAcables.com offers the “white” mSata case adapters for $11.75.

(@FBz: i wonder if that would also be true for the "bribge" ones?) -IIO
I’ll check the Bribge adapters (non-Mini) & report on that other thread.
[ http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5436.msg39965 ]
Might take me a day or two as I'm brain dead today. Tax Day!

[FBz]

Now I’ve got many Minis to convert!

Well, the IDE44-SATA-FSB adapter with its’ stated 500GB limit
- did prove problematic with a 1TB SSD.

Initial testing of 1TB Crucial BX500 SSD in 1.5GHz G4 Mac Mini
completed yesterday with both of the 44-pin green adapters.
Formatted and partitioned in various ways with varying
number of partitions and partition sizes…
until arriving at the following:

Note: Above format yields 931.41GB total. *Might decrease sizes of the larger
“Space” partitions to allow for more unused (a reserved percentage) of the
SSD - if eventually to be left in the Mac Mini.

(Drive Setup 2.1 is in the Applications folder of the Mac Mini installer disc.)

Again, standard procedure here is to close Drive Setup 1.9.2 (which auto-opens)
under the V.9 installer (and prior versions) and then open Drive Setup 2.1
for format and partitioning. Then, under ASR… select “Restore in Place”.

Initial install here was with the (preferred) SATA2IDE44VAO (AS331 V1.5) adapter
which provided the following QuickBench results:

Then, switched out the adapter with the IDE44-SATA-FSB
(MCA004 V1.3) adapter and it booted the first time…
only followed w/ question-mark icon upon reboot.

Heed that IDE44-SATA-FSB “works up to 500GB” caveat.

Afterwards, upon reinstallation of the SATA2IDE44VAO
…the following problems were noted.

So then another reformat / re-partition and OS 9.2.2 re-install. And then Tiger.

*No jumper on either adapter tested. Both pre-set as “Master”
- which is as they should be for use in the G4 Mac Mini.

The SATA2IDE44VAO seems “best choice” while the
IDE44-SATA-FSB may in fact only “work up to 500GB”.

The Crucial BX500 1TB SSD is nearly the exact, smaller physical size
as the Crucial 480 GB SSD once removed from the case. Will next be
tested in MDD and Quicksilver with a “Bribge” adapter and results will
be posted on that other thread - dealing with other machine adapters.

Then I promise (PROMISE) to quit testing AND posting results.
For a-while… any-way.

And sorry IIO, didn’t find one of those “full-size” SSDs to test.

[IIO]

hm. why does it let you format the disk with 1 TB when it only "supports" 05?

what happens if you make only one partition of 1 TB?