Author Topic: Virtual PC with Linux  (Read 6173 times)

Offline teroyk

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Virtual PC with Linux
« on: May 09, 2020, 01:56:16 PM »
It seems that there really was released
Connectix Virtual PC With Red Hat Linux

Cover:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/mrsAAOSw0S5eth8i/s-l1600.jpg
back:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/R74AAOSwb7teth8H/s-l1600.jpg

I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline Roman323

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2020, 02:01:51 PM »
It seems that there really was released
Connectix Virtual PC With Red Hat Linux

Cover:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/mrsAAOSw0S5eth8i/s-l1600.jpg
back:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/R74AAOSwb7teth8H/s-l1600.jpg

Yes, you can install most distros of Linux or BSD using this app.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2020, 04:21:30 AM »
It seems that there really was released
Connectix Virtual PC With Red Hat Linux
Yes, you can install most distros of Linux or BSD using this app.

Yes, I have even installed Suse Linux 6 at that time, but I didn't find good way
to transfer files between OS9 and that Linux with Virtual PC.
But, my point is that there was even preinstalled pack for sale, so I wonder
if that had that better interaction between systems.

I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2020, 02:09:54 PM »
Debian Linux version 10.4.0 i386 tested to install in Connectix Virtual PC. Cannot install, but you can not install it to real Pentium PC  either :D
Yes you read right...Debian Linux has dropped support for Intel 386-686 CPUs some years ago.
btw. you can boot PPC Mac with older Debian Linux PPC, but ofcourse we don't want to.

Somethings I noticed when testing:
- Virtual PC 2.1.3 is absolutely lowest version that works in Mac OS 9.
- Virtual PC 6.0 in Mac OS 9.2.2 doesn't support booting from DVD, although OS X version does.
- I want know what was in:  ftp://linuxadditions:password@care.connectix.com/users/linuxadditions
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2020, 12:32:23 AM »
It seems that there really was released
Connectix Virtual PC With Red Hat Linux
Yes, you can install most distros of Linux or BSD using this app.

What distros?

Now tested:
Debian 8.11.1
Last version that should support Pentium II MMX (that is what Connectix Virtual PC emulate)
Not install, hang when first time try to write to HD in installation.
I am too lazy to bug report, this version has LTS support to july 2020.

Debian 6.0.10
I think this has same problem that 8.11.1

Debian 5.0.10
Kernel panic very beginning installation. Some hardware 586 PC has that too.
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2020, 12:11:48 AM »
Debian Linux 3.0r6 works with Virtual PC.
Debian 3.1r8 or 4 not tested, because I don't find official CD2 ISO-image of them.
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2020, 12:22:30 AM »
Debian 3.1r8 or 4 not tested, because I don't find official CD2 ISO-image of them.

New information:
Debian 3.1r8 (version from 2008!) first CD install, now almost works, but
where I find CD2 or official source DVD ISOs for that version?
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline Roman323

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2020, 03:31:08 PM »
Debian Linux 3.0r6 works with Virtual PC.
Debian 3.1r8 or 4 not tested, because I don't find official CD2 ISO-image of them.

What version of Connectix VPC you using ? Try version 4 or 5 - those emulate much higher processors.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2020, 12:27:36 AM »
Debian Linux 3.0r6 works with Virtual PC.
Debian 3.1r8 or 4 not tested, because I don't find official CD2 ISO-image of them.

What version of Connectix VPC you using ? Try version 4 or 5 - those emulate much higher processors.

All my Debian Linux tests are made with Connectix Virtual PC 6.0.2 for Mac OS 9.2.2. If somebody has newer update, I am interested in.
I put settings: Pentium II MMX, 512 MB RAM, S3 Trio 16 MB Vram, Sound Blaster 16, USB, Network
But I don't have files that has been at address: ftp://linuxadditions:password@care.connectix.com/users/linuxadditions

EDIT: btw. older Virtual PC versions might work better but as you said they emulate smaller PC. Virtual PC 3 has interesting feature to support 3dfx Voodoo card directly in your Mac PCI-slot, I haven't tested it.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 12:45:27 AM by teroyk »
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2021, 07:35:27 AM »
I found interesting information about running Linux on Virtual PC:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060312140115/http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/vpc/linux.html
But it doesn't tell what Mac Virtual PC version.
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2021, 08:31:05 AM »
Interesting information found from Virtual PC 4.0 manual:
"The disk image that ships with Virtual PC with Linux includes the Virtual PC Additions, which provide support for dragging the cursor between the Macintosh desktop and the Virtual PC window."
So do I really need special Connectix Virtual PC with Linux version for good integration between desktops?
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline DrNo7

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2021, 10:11:34 PM »
For good integration between desktops, you need to have the virtualPC additions installed.
There is a menu to mount the disk image with these additions to install them.

However, as these are drivers, there is a chance it won't be as easy as running the install tool depending on the Linux distro and the kernel. Long-story short: they made an image back in the days to make it plug-and-play. Doing it with another Linux may require some more tinkering ;)
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Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2021, 03:24:42 AM »
For good integration between desktops, you need to have the virtualPC additions installed.
There is a menu to mount the disk image with these additions to install them.

But problem is that with Connectix Virtual PC 6 has additions image VPCAdditions011123.iso and it only has additions for Windows (and this version has not additions for win3.1).

However, as these are drivers, there is a chance it won't be as easy as running the install tool depending on the Linux distro and the kernel. Long-story short: they made an image back in the days to make it plug-and-play. Doing it with another Linux may require some more tinkering ;)

Of course it needs more tinkering, but it would be easier that if we found ready made additions than make new drivers, I think http://www.connectix.com/connect/files/driver/ had information for make new drivers, but files is not in archive.org. Has somebody?

It seems that additions on Virtual PC with Linux had RPM-packed additions:
"Users who wish to install their own copy of Linux on a drive image should make sure that their distribution supports RPM (Red Hat Package Manager). Most major distributions include RPM, including Red Hat Linux, Linux Mandrake, and Debian. If the distribution does not include support for RPM, binaries can be downloaded from http://www.rpm.org/"
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline DrNo7

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2021, 10:04:02 PM »
But problem is that with Connectix Virtual PC 6 has additions image VPCAdditions011123.iso and it only has additions for Windows (and this version has not additions for win3.1).

That is unfortunate that the ISO image does not have the additions for Linux. However, I would assume that these additions were fairly standard from one version to the other meaning that an older version of the additions ISO should still do the trick on a recent version of VirtualPC (in case they stopped providing the Linux driver).

The driver may need some love to build on a recent kernel but if the sources are available, it should be manageable. The problem will be if they provided only a binary version that won't load with a recent kernel...

Too bad that these additions did not make it into distributions like the virtualbox additions did.

If somebody can find the RPM or sources for the driver, that would be a good start !
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Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2022, 12:02:13 PM »
I accidentally find page about Virtual PC 3 with Red Hat Linux from archive.org:
https://web.archive.org/web/20011031210837/http://www.connectix.com/products/vpc3_advanced.html
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2022, 01:29:07 AM »
@teroyk, we now have GNU/Linux additions for VPC here, thanks to Mac Garden member "Deserted", who kindly uploaded it (as well as many more additions, like for OS/2 and more up-to-date DOS additions) after I requested if anyone had them, here.

We still have to test them on VPC 2.1.3, VPC 3, VPC 4 and later, however, to see if they are compatible with those versions of Virtual PC.

One thing to keep an eye on is also Virtual Server, a product Connectix made, but did not release before Microsoft bought them. Then Microsoft released it, I think only for Windows. It has had additions like VPC, and they are usually compatible with VPC. In fact, the GNU/Linux additions from that page seem to have come from Virtual Server.

Let us know if you test the GNU/Linux additions?

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2022, 07:53:06 AM »
One thing to keep an eye on is also Virtual Server, a product Connectix made, but did not release before Microsoft bought them. Then Microsoft released it, I think only for Windows. It has had additions like VPC, and they are usually compatible with VPC. In fact, the GNU/Linux additions from that page seem to have come from Virtual Server.

Let us know if you test the GNU/Linux additions?

Definitely I test, but don't hold your breath...it can take time...so I give first thoughts if somebody want to be faster than me.

And It seems that there is some differences between VPC and Virtual Server.
from readme.txt:
"Virtual Server emulates Adaptec AIC7870 virtual SCSI adapter
...
The graphical installation process for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 will fail because it requires 24-bit video support which Virtual Server 2005 R2 SP1 does not support."

VPC emulates IDE-adapter as it was Intel TX-motherboard (VPC1-3) or Intel BX-motherboard(VPC4-6) not SCSI adapter.
VPC support 24-bit video.
btw. readme.txt has good information for install Linux even that Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5:
"entering the following command after booting off the installation media: linux text"
and you configure XWindow to work after installation. readme.txt has info how to modify /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /etc/inittab
those informations might help with any Linux installation in VPC.

Those additions seems to be Linux kernel version 2.6 and readme.txt has info if you use them with kernel version 2.4.
And then comes question what Linuxes has those kernel:
Red Hat Linux 7-9 has kernel 2.4, you can still find them here:
https://archive.kernel.org/redhat-archive/redhat/linux/
after that Red Hat spitted to commercial Red Hat Enterprise Linux and free Fedora Linux.

Fedora Linux 1 has kernel 2.4 and Fedora Linux 2-15 has kernel 2.6.

LBA-Linux, interesting Red Hat Linux variant from 2005, might also be good choise for test:
http://fi.archive.ubuntu.com/ftp.sot.com/lba-linux_r2/

Debian 3.1-6 has kernel 2.4-2.6...but when I tested Debian 5-6 I can't install in VPC, so hard to test additions by me. btw. Good Linux guru might install them.
Installing additions needs install RPM-package manager (from manual of VPC4), by default Debian doesn't install it.

But I somebody want help, there is long list of Linuxes, but no list witch have version that have kernel version 2.4-2.6:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions#General
And before we can test additions, we have to install Linux and RPM-package manager...so it would be nice that somebody else want also test another Linux variants,
if you aren't Linux expert it might be good to start Linuxes that has RPM-package manager by default:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions#Package_management_and_installation
And remember Virtual PC 1-3 support only floppy boot (like real PC in that time), so you have to make first boot floppy to install from CD-ROM. Old Linuxes has that option.
and Virtual PC 4-6 for Mac OS 9 doesn't support boot from DVD-ROM so you have use CD-ROM images (or real CD-ROMs).

Funny (or not so funny) that writing this take so much time that I have not right now time to test those additions today. So it is easy to be faster than me.

EDIT: and good choise for test is also Ubuntu Linux 8.04-11.04 these have interesting Wubi installation option that means that you start install from VPC with WinXP installation and that is not as bad it sounds.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 08:23:16 AM by teroyk »
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2022, 10:12:06 AM »
I start testing from Red Hat Linux 8.0, but it seems that it get many hours to download CD-images.
In that time I testing Debian, but how to know what RPM-package manager version is for what Linux version??: http://rpm.org/timeline.html
or should I use .rpm to .deb converter called Alien??: https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/alien/alien.1p.en.html
and where to find that Alien for Debian 3.1 or 4?...or have to compile my self..what version should work? Linux sucks (but not so much than some another modern OS)..why it is not like Mac OS 9..just click and done..Thats why ready made Virtual PC with Red Hat Linux would be good to find.
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2022, 12:58:28 PM »
Installing Red Hat Linux 8.0 in VPC 6.

Only 2 first CDs needed if you choose (in graphical install) personal desktop and then using "next-button installation",
except when asking resolution I choosed 16bit 800x600 (another resolutions might work too) and to change monitor information HorizSync 31.5 - 37.9.
it worked fine, but slowly it definitely asking VPC additions for speed up it.

But when I try install additions from Virtual Server 2005: https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/virtual-pc-additions
I noticed that additions iso-file is DVD-image and somewhat it is not readable in RHL8.0 although it should…files have to transfer to CD-image (or burn real CD).
…but before you can install additions you have to install developing and kernel tools from package manager.
And RHL8.0 had kernel 2.4.18-14, so have to todo pre-requisite mentioned in additions README.txt and I could almost all, but have to command: make dep
then comes problems that my linux skills wasn't enough…I think that linux gurus might solve problems, easily. It says that it doesn't find some include paths, but I don't know where to fix it.
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2022, 01:30:17 PM »
And RHL8.0 had kernel 2.4.18-14, so have to todo pre-requisite mentioned in additions README.txt and I could almost all, but have to command: make dep
then comes problems that my linux skills wasn't enough…I think that linux gurus might solve problems, easily. It says that it doesn't find some include paths, but I don't know where to fix it.

What about Fedora 15? If it has kernel 2.6, it should be a bit easier, right? I located it in the official old archives here:

https://archives.fedoraproject.org/pub/archive/fedora/linux/releases/15/Fedora/i386/

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2022, 02:10:24 PM »
What about Fedora 15? If it has kernel 2.6, it should be a bit easier, right? I located it in the official old archives here:
https://archives.fedoraproject.org/pub/archive/fedora/linux/releases/15/Fedora/i386/

VPC6 support DVD, but not in boot. So have to be CD-images. Fedora 14 has:
https://archives.fedoraproject.org/pub/archive/fedora/linux/releases/14/Fedora/i386/iso/
But I think I test Fedora 2 next, because it might be more light weight and it is with kernel 2.6, too:
https://archives.fedoraproject.org/pub/archive/fedora/linux/core/2/i386/iso/
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline Jubadub

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2022, 02:13:07 PM »
By the way, it seems we might have another incentive to use Linux 2.6 instead of 2.4:

http://bulk.fefe.de/scalability/

It seems like 2.6 is a massive upgrade over 2.4, and overall a very incredible system kernel. This is good to know, as we can alleviate as much load from Virtual PC (and other virtual machines) as we can by keeping this in mind.

Someone also said that all subsequent kernel updates were heavily based on 2.6, which might be very useful for us, in terms of potential compatibility and behavior/features:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41713556/what-is-difference-between-linux-kernel-versions

The exact quote:

Quote
In the past, 2.0.x 2.2.x and 2.4.x (even-numbered minor part) were the stable series, and 2.1.x, 2.3.x, and 2.5.x were the development series where major changes took place. When development on 2.1 finished, it became 2.2, 2.3 became 2.4, and 2.5 became 2.6. When 2.6 was released, it was decided not to create a new series, but to continue developing on the 2.6 series. At some point, it was decided to create stable branches off each of the 2.6.x releases, leading to 2.6.x.y releases. Some of those became longterm releases. 3.x and 4.x are a direct continuation of the 2.6 series.

So in many ways 2.6 is the father of all modern-day Linux.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2022, 12:45:19 PM »
By the way, it seems we might have another incentive to use Linux 2.6 instead of 2.4:

I have now tested some Linuxes with kernel 2.6:
Fedora 2, text installer works, but I think it detect VPC 6 "CPU" wrong to P3 with SSE and install wrong kernel.

Fedora 14, Installer get kernel panic. I think kernel of installer needs SSE.

Debian 5, I think it detects VPC 6 "CPU" to P3 with SSE, some real PC owners with 586-processor have same problem. Debian 5.0.10 itself support even 486.

Debian 4.0R8 (debian-40r8-i386-xfce-CD-1.iso), works, but I don't find another installation isos and it needs more installation CDs (because have to install RPM or Alien), before I can try to install additions. btw here is sums of all isos of that version: https://get.debian.org/images/archive/4.0_r8/i386/iso-cd/MD5SUMS

EDIT: I noticed that there is also Debian 4.0R9 and those sums: https://get.debian.org/images/archive/4.0_r9/i386/iso-cd/MD5SUMS ,but no ISOs.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2022, 01:38:11 PM by teroyk »
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2022, 11:39:42 AM »
Now tested Debian 4.0R9. Works with xfce-CD1. But needs Linux guru to install additions. Actually additions iso mounts with terminal command mount /dev/cdrom. Needs convert rpm-packages to deb-packages with alien-command (I used normal CD4 and depencies needed CD2, but not CD3 needed sofar)..but errors in post-installation that I cannot solve. So not easy install additions for Debian. Without additions speed is little slower than Red Hat 8.0.
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

Offline teroyk

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Re: Virtual PC with Linux
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2022, 03:28:41 AM »
If Connectix VPCs has same problem that those MS VPCs, It might be that we should avoid at least Kernel versions 2.6.24 - 2.6.30:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=463606
More about long NOP (no operation) command bug:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=464962#143
It has interesting code listing that somebody skill full enough can test has VPC 6 same problem with Linux.
...ok i might be skill full enough, but I have some another VPC stuff for test on my hands.

btw..I think that NOPL command is made only for make older PC not compatible, bad Intel  >:(
I bought my first new Mac when OS X 10.1 released. And I bought that Mac because it had Mac OS 9 too. And I bought my first 68k Mac when Apple stopped PPC Macs.

 


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