Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)

[chatulim]

external is an option, too (maybe anyone can comment if you can also boot from fw drives into OSX installer DVDs on the mini?)

I do not have access to a FW optical drive. As I mentioned in my original post, I have an external OWC FW800/USB3 drive with several partitions. One of the partitions is the "Ross's Mac mini OS 9 CD v9". The G4 Mini won't boot from that partition -- it gives a flashing question mark disk.

I do have a working optical drive in a PowerBook G4. My next attempt will be to boot the PB into FW-target-disk-mode and see if the Mini (as host) can recognize the disc in the optical drive. Only problem is that I don't have any FW 400-400 cables (only 400-800 and 800-800). I have a local source for a 400-400 cable but it may take a few days until I can pick it up.

Stay tuned...

In the meantime, I am trying ssp3's method from http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6742.msg51333.html

Wish me luck!

[chatulim]

If Mini can boot from USB, one can always try the method I outlined here:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6742.msg51333.html

I am really surprised that nobody have picked it up.
Same trick works with FireWire drives, by the way.
There's no need to deal with burning discs, half-dead, full of dust slimline DVD drives and all that cr**. Unless you're a retro collector and want everything stock, of course.

I tried the above solution. It did get me further along than any previous attempts, but I still hit a wall:

I used iBored to clone the OS9 install CD to a bare drive connected to an Intel Mac Mini with a NewerTech USB 3.0 Universal Drive Adapter. I then tried connecting the NewerTech adapter to the G4 Mini and rebooted holding down the option key... It did not show up in the boot selector.

I then tried booting from a bunch of different USB drives -- including the aforementioned OWC drive (it has USB & FW interfaces) -- and the Mini would not boot off of any of them. So I guess the G4 Mini can't boot from USB and therefore this solution is not relevant.

For my next attempt, I cracked the Mini open and replaced the stock drive with the iBored-cloned drive and it booted into OS9(!!!). Then I tried connecting the stock drive to the NewerTech adapter, intending to install OS9 over USB, but the Mac did not recognize the drive. 

After that letdown I switched everything back to the way it was and went to sleep.

Now I am wondering if the problem might have been that the bare drive with the NewerTech adapter is bus-powered, and an AC-powered drive might be recognized. Or maybe I needed to reformat to drive first (OS9 drivers?). Or maybe I should have tried installing onto a FW drive instead of USB.

In any event, that's the latest update. I am currently still waiting for delivery of a FW 400-400 cable, and I am also looking into a local source for a compatible CD drive.

[chatulim]

OP Update...

Background info: I want to install OS 9 on a Mac Mini G4 w/o working optical drive. I also have a PowerBook G4 w/ working optical drive, and an external FireWire 800 hard drive. I have a FW400-800 cable and was waiting for a FW400-400 cable.

I finally got the FW400-400 cable. I connected the Mini G4 to the PB G4 with the FW cable, put Ross's Mac Mini OS 9 install CD into the PB and booted it into target-disk-mode. Then I booted the Mini with the option key down and was able to start-up from the CD. FWIW, I'm shocked that this worked.

I initialized the Mini's internal drive, partitioned it into 2 volumes and installed OS 9 on one of them. The installation went smoothly and after it was done I was able to shut down the PB and boot the Mini from the internal OS 9 partition without a hitch.

So the moral of the story is, you can't boot OS 9 on a G4 Mini from a USB drive or a FW800 drive, but you can from a CD in another computer in target-disk-mode if it's connected with FW400.

That seems to be the end of my OS 9 installation ordeal. I then tried installing OS X on the other internal partition of the Mini, but that doesn't seem to be working for some reason... I connected an external FW800 drive with a Tiger Install DVD partition to the Mini and booted from it. After installing Tiger onto the second partition on the Mini's internal drive, it would not boot up -- giving me the "do not enter" sign. I could still boot from the internal OS 9 partition, or from the OS X partitions on the FW drive, but not from the internal OS X partition. Any idea why that would happen? (I know this is macos9lives, and not osxlives, but I figured the problem may be related to something I did when installing OS 9).

[FBz]

So the moral of the story is... <snip> or a FW800 drive...

Au contraire mon ami.

Well, dunno ‘bout the USB route / haven’t tried that yet (or have I?).

Anyway, had exact same problem trying to install Tiger from a FW800 drive.

Same result. Until… from page ten of ye Holy Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger - Installation and Setup Guide
(nah, no iPhone screenshot of that screen). Booted yet again from the FW800 drive and the resident
Tiger installer there and after Selecting a Destination (that partition in the mini) for OS X AGAIN.
Clicked on “Options” to arrive at this, below.



Chose “Erase & Install” and then enjoyed one of the fastest installs of Tiger that I have ever
experienced. Then left the (yes, bus powered) FW800 drive on and connected for the reboot
and when prompted, filled in all of those on-screen requisites (lies mostly) and then the mini
booted into Tiger. Viola! et Voilà!

Hopefully this concludes this major deviation of this thread and if not,
it’s time to open another one elsewhere.

In the meantime, that’s my 666th post as FBz!

Sayonara y’all.

[IIO]

i don´t think you can clone an OS9 installer CD onto a HD partition and then boot from it as if it would be a CD.

[DieHard]

In the meantime, that’s my 666th post as FBz!

Sayonara y’all.

I will say a prayer

[ssp3]

i don´t think you can clone an OS9 installer CD onto a HD partition and then boot from it as if it would be a CD.

You can. I posted the results in the thread that I have linked a few posts above.

Here's the proof. Pay attention to device block size of 2048 (CD) as opposed to 512 (HD).

[teroyk]

Pay attention to device block size of 2048 (CD) as opposed to 512 (HD).

MacOS9 support block size up to 65535 on HD, but OSX does not support that.
So in theory MacOS9 support very very very big (huge!) disks, but no one has wrote partition/format application that can detect those big disks.
Silverlining Pro support disk size up to somewhere 2.3 TB.

[gregbuchner]

Further updates...

Check networking. And the 10/100 networking on the G3 didn't work either. Has to be something with the switch I'm using that is close by as Gigabit has been working.

OK, connected to a different switch and still no networking. Not sure about the previously mentioned G3 B&W as my ex-roommate actually picked it up this year. Not a killer to not have networking, but I'll really have to figure out some way to test it out. I should have an old 10/100 switch around somewhere. Or was it a 10/100 hub?

Works great with my KVM hooked up with a older Logitech mouse and currently an Apple keyboard. Just need to plug in the sound setup and everything else should be good to go.

[gregbuchner]

OK, connected to a different switch and still no networking. Not sure about the previously mentioned G3 B&W as my ex-roommate actually picked it up this year. Not a killer to not have networking, but I'll really have to figure out some way to test it out. I should have an old 10/100 switch around somewhere. Or was it a 10/100 hub?

Found the older networking device. It was a 10/100 hub. It hooks up to my gigabit switch with no issues, but nothing at all when the Mini is hooked up. Looks like I bought a G4 Mini with a dead Ethernet port. I'll take a look around, but if someone knows quick...are Airport cards compatible with Mac OS 9 on this machine? Which card would I need? [Edit: No, found the page, AirPort not supported.]

And maybe I'll have to look into another G4 Mini next year.

[ssp3]

Run the Apple Hardware Test. It has built-in Ethernet port tests.

[IIO]

The G4 Mac Mini won’t boot from USB without some open firmware gimmicks.

install via firewire boot mode from another mac: ✓

boot from built-in CD, DVD, HD SSD: ✓
boot from firewire CD, DVD, HD SSD: ✓

boot from USB CD, DVD, HD, SSD: XXX

net boot from built-in ethernet: ?
drag install of miniOS via lean OSX boot volume from USB: ?
drag install of miniOS via morphOS, linux boot volume, telepathy or black magic: ?

(helpful as i am, i will test the black magic attempt until next week)

[aBc]

Restored a full copy of Tiger OS 10.4.11 to a USB thumb drive with a Mac Mini and then attempted to boot that same mini from that USB stick. No-go.

Placed same USB stick in a Quicksilver and after quite a long time, it did boot.

And now after some further mining of sailorMH’s site, discovered the following:



So there’s another possibility now for booting a mini from USB?
Try it with a powered USB hub - instead of direct to mini insert.

Worth a try? It'll likely be very slow, so... patience.

[gregbuchner]

Run the Apple Hardware Test. It has built-in Ethernet port tests.

I've seen references to a built-in hardware test on some Macs. Is this something I've missed, or did I just read something wrong?

I have download what should be the appropriate Apple Software Diagnostics disk, I just don't think I can force a boot of it through the KVM. Going to have to hook up a keyboard directly.

[DieHard]

I've seen references to a built-in hardware test on some Macs. Is this something I've missed, or did I just read something wrong?

I have download what should be the appropriate Apple Software Diagnostics disk, I just don't think I can force a boot of it through the KVM. Going to have to hook up a keyboard directly.

You read wrong, no built in diags

Also remember that some AHT (Apple hardware Test) will only work with mouse plugged into an apple keyboard... in other words, plugging in a USB keyboard in one USB port and a mouse in another USB port (on many mac desktops) will not show a working mouse in the AHT.  So get a genuine apple keyboard and plug any (non-genuine OK) USB mouse into the keyboard, now AHT has mouse control

[IIO]

booting by black magic also failed.

(i´ve read in a witches magazine that it might work using a powered ward, but i dont have one. not even under my bed.)

[gregbuchner]

Also remember that some AHT (Apple hardware Test) will only work with mouse plugged into an apple keyboard... in other words, plugging in a USB keyboard in one USB port and a mouse in another USB port (on many mac desktops) will not show a working mouse in the AHT.  So get a genuine apple keyboard and plug any (non-genuine OK) USB mouse into the keyboard, now AHT has mouse control

So finally got the right version of the Apple Service Diagnostics and burned it to a CD. Boots up. (Non-Apple keyboard/mouse hooked up through a USB hub worked when I held down on the C key.) Ran the Ethernet test. Everything passes. Ran the entire test set three times. Everything passes. But still no Ethernet. Cable last tried was pulled from a working port on an Intel Mini. The Intel Mini connects via 100 base-T connected through my ancient hub. Same setup does not work for the Mini. The extensions, as I remember them, are installed. Something is wrong with the port that is beyond the ability of the hardware test to determine.

Anyone have any other ideas?

FYI: Download this version of the ASD (ASD-258.dmg).
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/download.php?id=27490

Came from this page.
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/28403-all-apple-hardware-test-aht-apple-service-diagnostic-asd-disks

[thorhall]

Has anyone tried playing games that rely on audio CD playback for the soundtrack? I tried Carmageddon and mech warrior 2 and couldn’t get the soundtrack to play. I tried using an M-Audio Transit USB, the internal DVD SuperDrive, and even got an old Sony CRX1600L CD-RW that connects over FireWire and features analog audio outputs. I can’t get Apple CD audio player to play any tracks. The volume seems stuck at 0% and can’t be turned up, like it’s relying on the internal sound which is also stuck at 0% volume. The seconds on the Apple CD audio player advance to 3 and get stuck. I can hear the sony CD drive advance and recede with the track selection and I can tell the drive to start or stop, it just begins reading the track and immediately stops reading the CD. iTunes will play audio fine from the Sony or built in drive but it always bypassed the CD audio API and reads the data directly to facilitate ripping and EQ.

[djc6]

I'm interested in buying a G4 mac mini off eBay to try this with.  I see the G4 only existed for a year, and there was one model A1103 available with different specs of storage, memory, CPU speed, optical drive capabilities, etc.  There is also a unicorn with 64MB of video RAM.

Is there any reason not to get just the base model 1.25Ghz and upgrade it with SSD and RAM?  I can't imagine a huge speed difference 1.25Ghz vs 1.42Ghz considering the price premium the higher speed ones go for.  Are there any gotchas or things I should take into consideration when deciding on which G4 Mac Mini to purchase?

[ssp3]

Is there any reason not to get just the base model 1.25Ghz and upgrade it with SSD and RAM?

Unless you intend to participate in dick swinging contest, 1.25GHz will be fine.