Mac OS 9 Lives
General => News, Information & Feedback => Topic started by: Knezzen on March 17, 2024, 04:46:48 AM
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First steps are done, forum and files have been successfully moved.
The technical infrastructure has been set up, I'm sure you all noted the speedier operation of the forum. We're also mirroring all content, there isn't any danger of anything ever getting lost now.
So Mac OS 9 Lives is now on a solid ground for the years to come!
Thinking about the next changes.
Those of you who have been sticking around remember the days when the forum was much more active. You would log in every day in anticipation of finding some interesting new posts or developments.
Today, I'm witnessing that we're down to only a handful of posts and only a number of regulars.
One of the reasons I took responsibility of Mac OS 9 Lives was the wish to make those days coming back. To attract newbie members and see many return who had left. I'd love to make Mac OS Lives the go-to place for everything Mac OS 9 related on the web - with a focus on actually using Mac OS 9 productively and as a daily driver and not just talking about Mac OS 9. And I'd like to provide services and stuff to make that happen, because why shouldn't it ? Why should we have to rely on OS X or Windows? Mac OS 9 is more than capable.
Though, I feel we need to make some changes for this all to happen.
I'd really love to see the website extended. Remember the 2000's Mac websites with daily news and how-to tutorials? I'd really love to see a website that is a good bookmark to keep and visit after you've booted up your OS 9 machine. A page you can link to whenever somebody asks: "What is Mac OS 9 and why should one use it?".
Also potentially offer the website multilingual as in various languages if there's enough interest. (English language content being translated into French, Spanish, German etc.)
I feel we also need to make some changes to the forum itself. It was good when it was bustling with activity and rapidly growing. Today it feels like the kids have moved out and the parents stay back in a 200 square meter house all alone. We have a lot of forums and subforums with little activity. Might be time to look into some consolidation.
Fully aware here that not everybody will like all the changes. I'll always try to incorporate suggestions and ideas what everybody is making as long as I feel they are beneficial. But I'd also ask to accept that I can't simply make everybody happy.
What I'd like everyone to remember is that if we can pull this off, it'll be ultimately beneficial for all of us Mac OS 9 users - be it us musicians, creatives, gamers, tinkerers or whatever.
Stay tuned for more. And feel free to share your thoughts.
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I am addicted to the "Like" button. I really miss that functionality. I hope we can get back that within weeks.
The migration of ALL the files that DieHard hosted on Gmail should come after, in my opinion.
We should welcome even more the "virtualizers" and the QEMU community. QEMU ´plus PCI direct connection (or whatever it is called) is the only new "hardware" alternative.
I am now inmerse in the renovation of my DAW rooms and my goal is to use ProTools 5.1.3 TDM and my MIX as main multitrack/SSL/lexicon instead of PT 10.
I have little to none time to make a Instagram and TikTok account to promote the forum, I wish youngers could help.
Anyway most youtubers use our install images but give credit to the garden instead. :P
What I think is more needed is to make some great post with pictures about chassis expansions to help users grab them piece by piece. I think we have more than 20 chassis owners on the forum. If they post some pictures we can still help the Pro that still wishes to use Mac OS 9 as platform.
We have no info about the Unreal Tournament, please share.
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Dont get me wrong. I am really happy with the migration and the loading times.
About consolidation of posts, I tried to do my best, but the Mac Mini stuff got no moderation done by me because I really cant help there.
The brute google skills of some searchers is needed to revamp old posts that CAN be updated.
Can we rebuild some pages to be "modern" on new browsers and still mantain compatibility with Classilla/ Internet Explorer? Macos9lives.com could benefit of a revamp.
I am sure a lot of 2014 users are still around and dont know you are now the CEO. DevilsAdvisor comes to mind, among others.
I wish vintage gamers could come to the garden for the games but get hooked here for the chat/review/tips. We can make room for them.
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I am addicted to the "Like" button. I really miss that functionality. I hope we can get back that within weeks.
The migration of ALL the files that DieHard hosted on Gmail should come after, in my opinion.
I hear you. I just think that migrating the downloads and getting them hosted on something other than Google Drive has a higher priority than the like button, that's just my two cents.
We have no info about the Unreal Tournament, please share.
That was just a nonsense post in the Simplemachines calendar. I was just testing functionality and forgot to remove that post. Thanks for pointing it out.
I agree on that we need to reach out to more people and market "our" Mac OS 9 Lives "distribution" of Mac OS 9. I just think it's best done by presenting it through a nice website that is both informative and sparks curiosity to it's reader.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts :)
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I like the idea about gamers. As a dad, my play time is limited these days. Though it's fun to watch my kids to learn 'computing' - on Mac OS 9 of course - and see them play some of the games I used to. Mac OS 9 has some great games and as long as this games part wouldn't overtake the rest of page, I'd like the addition.
That said, maybe some info on how to use Mac OS 9 as an educational-at-home OS? I find it perfectly suited for kids to take their first steps and to be creative in a save environment.
OS 9 daily driver content:
Really like the emphasis on "how to use OS 9 as a daily driver". This is something I very much enjoy on my machines, finding workarounds and solutions to usually artificially imposed problems. I know there's people out there like me who will only use modern gear if it's absolutely necessary (Online Banking comes to mind) but otherwise find that their Mac OS 9 machines do whatever they're looking for, often even better.
Commercialization:
I do hope this page stays uncommercial as DieHard had it running, e.g. no banner ads and tracking. Donations are OK, if freely and to keep things running. Banner ads would make me leave.
Social Media:
Not sure if OS 9 Lives needs to go (and drown) in the huge sea of TikTok and Insta. What would one be looking for there? It'd be a lot of time and energy and without an ad budget it'd likely not be of much use. Instead I'd love to see this place to develope into a refuge for those of us looking for alternatives to the (anti) social media? We need less Social Media and more personal websites and services, much in the way the WWW was originally intended to become.
I think is more well spent going into alternative networks like Gemini, Mastodon, Gopher etc. and finding people that are interested in something like Mac OS 9 than explaining to someone on Insta that his shiny new iPhone is overpriced corporationware.
Please don't add Like buttons. This is a Bulletin Board, not Facebook. If we like something, we can articulate that, can't we? This used to work for decades until Zuckerberg came around ...
What I'd really like to see is getting some content here spotlighted. Every now and then I run into a series of posts with such details and knowledge that makes me think "wow, this should be in some kind of FAQ" (or something) where it is readily found rather than by accident in the forum. Maybe a knowledge base of some sort?
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And feel free to share your thoughts.
Sigh.. I have a lot to say, but I'm not sure I want to spend time putting it all down. It could be a very long post or series of posts.
First, fix the navigation. I find myself checking the forum less than before.
Each time I have to go to 'home', scroll down the page, read the topic names in small font and check the poster's name and date to see whether I have already read it or not. That's like navigating Windows. eek.
More later.
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First, fix the navigation. I find myself checking the forum less than before.
You're referring to the bottom navigation that was disabled before the transfer of the forum? Other than reinstating for the time being missing functions, you're not missing anything in terms of content or have any thoughts on the future? Everything is good as it is if we just enable the old functions again?
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I added the feature with less "bling" to the bottom of every topic page, ssp3.
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I mostly stopped coming here because of specific posters. There's one in particular but they're not the only one that can get antagonistic. It's tiring and puts people off from participating.
I also got tired of seeing the same posts come up over and over again. "How do I make my 25 year old Mac work with my 57:14 5000hz megaultrasync monitor".
Perhaps an updated FAQ section dealing with common topics like that and file sharing might be useful.
Got tired of waiting for SataMan's mythical bootable SATA-2 driver.
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I added the feature with less "bling" to the bottom of every topic page, ssp3.
Thanks, this looks much better. I hope it's not because of me but for the good of forum. :)
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sort by interestes. games / daws&plugs / hardware / OS / rest
engange the audience in participating
punish old grumpy people (the usual suspects) with temp bans so posters are not being intimidated by angry old posters enganging in territorial pissings
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I mostly stopped coming here because of specific posters. There's one in particular but they're not the only one that can get antagonistic. It's tiring and puts people off from participating.
THIS!
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There are some that, despite them using foul language and for reasons that I can not understand, are given way too much leeway.
I haven't stopped coming here (yet), but, following one specific incident, I decided to stop posting exclusive content in one particular forum area. Why spend hours staring at display if the stuff you provide can end up in the hands of a-holes. Especially if what you do is not for yourself, but for the benefit of others.
If you want to reboot the forum, I think, it would be good to use heavier form of moderation, especially in its initial stage. A bit of discipline doesn't hurt. I, for one, would love to see the introduction of warning system (bad manners, useless posts, long quotes, posting misleading information), sin-bin, ban and first time poster restrictions/conditions.
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Well…
Quite happy that the Forum and files have made the transition. Well done. Kudos. Allow me to hit that Like button!
But here we go:
1. “remember the days when the forum was much more active”
I still visit the Forum 2 to 3 times a day (if not more) but I don’t always log in. Such visits may not all be counted - just as many may also visit just for a quick reference and they may not be actual members either. And “traffic” can often be a seasonal thing as well, much like ebb and flow of the tides. This time of year (when the weather improves) I’m outdoors tending to other matters… just as many others do. But yes, it does often seem rather quiet at times. And perhaps just like the weather, that also changes.
2. “One of the reasons I took responsibility of Mac OS 9 Lives was the wish to make those days coming back.”
It’s rather doubtful that we’ll ever beat the record of 1307 Most-Online-Ever number from January 14, 2020 (pandemic days) but today’s number is 271. Compare that to the System 7 Today forum’s number of 14 for today and it’s easy to determine that the traffic is still here. May not be all bona fide members but the Forum still serves rather well as an on-going reference and source for some downloadable files (even sans membership). Still, there are those of us that often refer others (on and from other forums*) to this one. Spreading that gospel, baby! (*MacRumors, 68kMLA, TinkerDifferent, etc.) This IS the go-to site for OS 9. AND considering Apple’s most recent machine/OS offerings, perhaps we shall again see a resurgence in these older, dependable machines running OS 9?
I’d venture to say that for the most part, people visit here, get what they need and then they’re gone. Except for maybe what DieHard often referred to as the Core Users / Group.
3. "What is Mac OS 9 and why should one use it”?
This seems rather evident in the sense that nearly all new visitors are brought to the Forum via some search engine result, pertaining to some specific aspect of OS 9. AND quite honestly, I’m often quite pleased when it points to some old post of mine here, or even from some other member. There is GOLD here. (Some times silver or maybe even bronze… if it’s mine, maybe.) ;)
4. Ch-ch-changes and consolidation?
I am old and quite grouchy… and honestly quite often resistant to change. Especially if it becomes a matter of change, primarily for the sake OF change. Sure, some things can be merged - BUT the WIDE array of different sections should stay fairly much the same.
In the beginning, this was primarily a DAW reference site and there was much discussion as to whether or not other OS 9 related “things” should even be allowed. Hell, there was a time (for quite a long time) when the mere mention of OS X would result in much hand-ringing, teeth-gnashing and a very loud outcry. Happily, that changed as it became apparent that OS X could serve as an important adjunct and compliment to OS 9. (i.e. multi-drive, multi-boot, multi-partitioned drives especially when it comes to functional problems associated with OS 9 working partitions / drives.)
But yes, the general look and feel of the Forum can be considered as rather haphazard to the novice. That’s where that little search feature at the top comes into play. Chances are that the information sought, IS here. One need only search for it. And that effort nearly always pays off. All too often it seems, that we field questions of the most simple in nature. Because someone wants their answer served up on a silver platter immediately… even well before the question has been examined closely enough by the user. And then there are those that need help above and beyond what is readily available here. In many of those instances, some Forum members have sent HDs, SSDs and even installation discs to the far reaches of the globe (often at no charge or for shipping costs alone). That’s who some of us are - and what some of us do.
So, change things? Maybe incrementally. But please, don’t change the overall look and feel of this site. I do like System 7 Today forum’s overall look… but not for MacOS9Lives.
5. The “Like” button.
No this isn’t Facebook (and I detest Facebook and Zuckerberg). And honestly I didn’t like the “Like” button to begin with. However, it did become a way to easily acknowledge a good/great/grand post, especially made by newbies - or those that had just begun contributing to the Forum (without more keystrokes) quite simply for encouragement. Mind you, also good for old dogs’ contributions, when warranted. SO yes, I’d like to see it return just like Protools5LEGuy… instead of taking the time to type out accolades and post them. For me, maybe the addition of a “dislike” option too would be good. (I’m joking.) But yes, by all means complete the migration of the downloads.
6. Games / Gamer Section addition
WTH. Why not? So many of our recent new members originated during the pandemic when many Macs were recovered from storage and resurrected to primarily play games. However, perhaps members should somehow declare that this is their primary interest / focus? That, to keep me and others from delving too deep into certain specifics when wholly unnecessary. SO yes, a certain section for gamers and gamer related questions makes utter and complete sense.
7. OS 9 and active Forum E-van-gel-ism
Some of us do this regularly. Spreading the “gospel”. (Over on MacRumors, 68kMLA, TinkerDifferent, etc.) I often see references to something posted here, on other forums. And often with the mention that they’ve forgotten exactly where or providing any link. And then there are the complaints that they cannot see the images posted here without first registering as a member. (Which is sort of BS, as they had to register on those other forums too, in order to view full images there.)
8. “Bulletin Board” …what?
Nahh. I tend to think of this more as a Worldwide User Group (or WUG* as opposed to a MUG). Don’t make me go all the way back to the BBS mindset. *Or just for fun… a “FUG” (Forum User Group). :)
9.Also, see #10 below
I’m afraid that we may be heading more like what S7T’s opening page looks like?
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7031.0;attach=13613;image)
Which is fine for System 7 Today… nice and clean. Simple, uncluttered.
But sadly I can’t quite see MacOS9Lives compressed down into that format.
Check these numbers:
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7031.0;attach=13615;image)
Again, I’m only guessing here… but compressing MacOS9Lives down into that S7T format?
I shudder at the thought. Tell me that I’m concerned over nothing, please.
UND furthermore,
10. From an earlier, unposted post:
I for one don't miss any of the forum plugins, but then it's probably a routine thing. If you've used the stuff for, say, two years on a daily basis, you'd sure miss the feature. I think Knez will look into what's possible and offer up solutions. I haven't known him to be a only-my-way-is-the-right-way type of person, so come time, come (optional, maybe?) features!
There's certainly the possibility to write a more efficient theme for the forum to accommodate for even older / slower machines / people with shitty internet connections. I've done that for the System 7 Today forum, which also runs on SMF. Could be an optional theme for Mac OS 9 Lives too, if there's interest?
Yes! Let's discuss this
“More efficient / optional theme”?
“If you've used the stuff for (plugins) say, two years on a daily basis, you'd sure miss the feature(s).”
I’ve only been around here since 2016… as FdB, then FBz and most recently as aBc. I change once I reach 666 posts (because I’m Satan). Not really. I do this so that newbies won’t be put off by some noted large number of posts and thereby possibly leading them to thinking I’m some expert or know-it-all. (When I am not.) ::)
Undoubtedly some changes were likely inevitable with the hand off. And I most certainly do miss some of the plugins. (Still hoping for the return of some of them.) But… a more efficient and perhaps optional theme? Is this a reference to a format or layout “appearance” change to something more like that of System 7 Today’s?
Please, no.
This Forum is a veritable, on-going and massive archive... quite unlike any other site in existence today.
And yes, that new “bottom feature” is nice.
P.S. I’m still working on the copper heatsinks for the Mac Mini AND an ATX PSU conversion guide for the Quicksilver and other G4s. But now, daylight’s burning and I have a huge list of outdoor duties - waiting while I stole time to write all of this drivel. And I’m certain there will be more (drivel). There's never anything to do. :(
And now, after reading some of the posts above this (while I typed this)...
Let the wild rumpus begin!!! :P
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I don't post a lot but I really value this website and community.
I used the resources on the site heavily - specifically the Midi and Digital Audio resources - at the beginning of my return to OS9. Now that I'm comfortable with my setup and have the software that I need, I drop by infrequently - usually without logging in - to see if there are any interesting threads. I wonder if this is the sort of relationship to the site that other people have, too ... the site helps them get started and, when they are successfully re-immersed, tend not to need it as much.
Occasionally, if I need a specific resource and don't want to dig around in my file collection looking for it, I will pop back and grab the file here.
Now that we are a few hardware iterations away from PPC OSX, I tend to "see it" in the same sort of light as OS9 (as a historical OS) and feel that software from that period needs to be preserved and made available too. There was some interesting music stuff from that era that, as far as I know, didn't make it to Intel.
D.
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Thank you for restoring the bottom-of-thread-page activity section :)
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Again, I’m only guessing here… but compressing MacOS9Lives down into that S7T format?
I shudder at the thought. Tell me that I’m concerned over nothing, please.
Yes you are. I don't understand why you're even jumping to this conclusion in the first place to be honest.
IF anything will change in terms of forum look and feel it will indeed be optional. The issue with the old System 7 Today forum was that the old forum was based on a piece of software called phpBB2 which was "End Of Life" in 2009. Ridden with security holes and very unsafe in general. What we did was migrate the phpBB2 forum to SimpleMachines (which is what we're running here) to get something secure and something that rendered nicely on older machines and Bolkonskij made a replica of the old phpBB2 theme with some modifications for it. If anything it was even more compressed before. We didn't change the look and feel or the layout of the site in any way, we stuck to the original design (which was based on the Apple website anno 1998).
Just have a look yourself if you don't believe me.
http://web.archive.org/web/20100327211549/http://forums.system7today.com/
And the statistics can be read in many ways. I see them as statistics for a time that has passed. Bots trawling the site are behind the majority of the views and based on posts per day System 7 Today is more active than Mac OS 9 Lives nowadays.
I mostly stopped coming here because of specific posters. There's one in particular but they're not the only one that can get antagonistic. It's tiring and puts people off from participating.
Couldn't agree more. We somehow need to lighten up the mood and try to be humble about peoples differences in perspective. Try to be more kind to one another.
Thanks for all the input so far!
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Try to be more kind to one another.
This will not get you very far, I'm afraid.
You have to set a clear set of rules, follow and enforce them!
Here's the post by user TenorClefCyclist on reddit, who gives very good example on what happens.
* Emphasis mine.
** I joined Pro Audio Mailing List in 1997
*** I tried to dig out that list's rules, but can't locate them.
Public forums pretty much always turn to cr@p. It happened to USENET's rec.audio.pro once everyone and their grandmother got web access. Gabe Weiner (RIP) started the Pro Audio Mailing List in response. It was by invitation only -- you had to introduce yourself to Gabe by email. In its heyday, it had lots of industry luminaries: including mastering engineer Bob Katz, Motown engineer Bob Olhssohn, gear designers Daniel Weiss and Eelco Grimm, converter chip designer Max Hauser, and mic modder Scott Dorsey.
There have been pro forums on various platforms in the interim, most of which fell into disuse as the platform itself did. I recall a recording engineer's forum on AOL hosted by Glenn Meadows. Prosoundweb.com still hosts discussion groups run by Klauss Heine and Bruno Putzys, but they are very low traffic now. Sometimes a year goes by before I remember to look at them.
That illustrates the basic problem:
The "network effect" dictates that you need a critical mass of the right members for a forum to be useful.
If you have too few, nobody shows up regularly and questions go unanswered for weeks.
OTOH, more growth means an influx of basically clueless people.
First, they ask tons of elementary and repetitive questions, answerable by reading the FAQ, the first chapter of any audio engineering text, or a two-minute web search.
Then they start answering questions, often wrongly, and arguing when the pros correct them. It's Dunning-Kruger Effect writ large!
Ultimately, the pros get driven away and the forum's signal-to-noise ratio falls into the toilet.
That's pretty much what happened to Gearspace.com . I still try to help people there, but I'm frequently shouted down by folks who think a Schoeps CMC64 is useless because all you need is a SM57. I wish I had a dime for every time I've been lectured about the Nyquist theorem by someone who "learned it" from their buddy in a bar!
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I mostly stopped coming here because of specific posters.
"How do I make my 25 year old Mac work with my 57:14 5000hz megaultrasync monitor".
Perhaps an updated FAQ section dealing with common topics like that and file sharing might be useful.
we are aware of all of this and many here will share your opinion.
it is just that nothing of these things can be done without quite some work, and every change you can imagine in these fields will also have negative side effects.
for example people asking for "rules". :)
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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for example people asking for "rules". :)
:)
https://ethics.org.au/ethics-explainer-deontology/
Deontology is an ethical theory that says actions are good or bad according to a clear set of rules.
Its name comes from the Greek word deon, meaning duty. Actions that align with these rules are ethical, while actions that don’t aren’t. This ethical theory is most closely associated with German philosopher, Immanuel Kant.
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I'd really love to see the website extended. Remember the 2000's Mac websites with daily news and how-to tutorials? I'd really love to see a website that is a good bookmark to keep and visit after you've booted up your OS 9 machine. A page you can link to whenever somebody asks: "What is Mac OS 9 and why should one use it?".
Also potentially offer the website multilingual as in various languages if there's enough interest. (English language content being translated into French, Spanish, German etc.)
Fully aware here that not everybody will like all the changes. I'll always try to incorporate suggestions and ideas what everybody is making as long as I feel they are beneficial. But I'd also ask to accept that I can't simply make everybody happy.
What I'd like everyone to remember is that if we can pull this off, it'll be ultimately beneficial for all of us Mac OS 9 users - be it us musicians, creatives, gamers, tinkerers or whatever.
Well, an idea I had about 7 years ago, but never got to implement it, was to incorporate all the PPC stuff, System 7/8 thru Early OS X into one common site; but I actually was going to go a step further when I came to the realization during COVID that Apple repeats it's own historical mistakes over and over.
As we all know, Apple's never ending quest to move forward is a blessing and a curse. New technologies get established then become "yesterday's news". New hardware seems to always be missing a "port" or feature that would really come in handy. As humans, we like things that are familiar and when change comes too quickly, we feel like we can't catch up. With BOTH the hardware and the software changing at record pace, it's a game of "catch-up" for most of us. This has all been said before and is obvious, but when I was still setting up ProTools rigs on snow Leopard in 2021, I was like a light bulb went off; PT10/Snow Leopard on now antiquated Intel, is Cubase on OS9 PPC. Same story.... so my idea...
One big resource for Gamers, Artists, Musicians, Video enthusiasts called "Applegraveyard.com" or some other catchy name !
Always evolving, always changing, as Apple casts old hardware / software in the garbage bin (or graveyard cause it's dead), the site picks it up. Old ProTools on Intel (like PT10 HD) no problem, resources here... Mac OS 9... resources here... old scanner working on Tiger... resources here... etc
One Mega-Site that basically picks up all the pieces as an invaluable resource of Mac hardware help guides, driver software, configuration tips, OS specific help and resources spanning all the "stuff' that seems to vaporize as all the little sites disappear.
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:)
https://ethics.org.au/ethics-explainer-deontology/
besides that it is somehow funny who were reacting to this discussion first, you obviously have no practical experience in what you suggest here.
"rules" do not even work in closed groups, and in a public forum there is simply no legitimation for anyone to set up those.
furthermore there are millions of rules already regulating all of that called civil right, netiquette and so on.
and people still upload files infected with viruses because they are dumb and lazy, insult each other because they are emotional, and violate a third party´s copyright because they do not understand the difference between 20 year old cracked software and 20 months old cracked software.
and you can kick people without written rules at any time.
and people who got kicked can come back 20 seconds later with a new email adress and continue their destructive mission.
"copyright is for sissies" - banksy
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Well, an idea I had about 7 years ago, but never got to implement it, was to incorporate all the PPC stuff, System 7/8 thru Early OS X into one common site;
i can follow you, but somehow i dont think this will happen.
the majority of active users here have something to do with programming/hacking, hardware, or pro audio/music.
and if there would be interest in a discussion forum for MacOS9 games, there would probably be such a site already.
so if we would care for that, too, it would mean that we tried to provide a service for potential new members in a field which is not really our own interest. :)
you do not even get a single answer here in 5+ years when you attempt to ask if someone wants to swap graphics plug-ins. for audio it is like 40 active users plus all the lurkers.
you can f.e. also not link to the garden all the time, this would undermine the garden policy to fly under the google radar.
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and sorry but one more post. last one, i promise.
something like a frontpage, something like FAQ stickies, something like tutorials would be nice to have, there is a lot of agreement about this.
but before we ask theo to decide how it should be implemented, everyone who wants this should first write an article, and then we can decide what to do with it.
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you obviously have no practical experience in what you suggest here.
I do, dear IIO, I do ;) I'm just pointing to cause and (potential) effect.
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I'm personally pleased with things so far, and I really am glad to see the return of the condensed "recent threads" feature back when viewing other threads.
I'm not worried in the least here, because @Knezzen is leading this, and because everyone here has given and is still giving their invaluable input, which helps us steer our ship where we want it to be. Our boat will keep rocking about as we set it to the correct direction, but I'm sure we will reach our destination, because the boat is rocking and not getting dragged away on still water, and because our sailors are awesome and each contributes to it differently.
I believe the few missed features that are still missing that some of us care for will in due time be back, precisely because of this. And I will once again emphasize, I'm really enjoying the forum's newfound responsiveness, and that all our old links, threads and posts are all intact.
I particularly like @FdB/@FBz/@aBc's post, it resonates with me a lot, but again I'm not concerned because I know @Knezzen will keep on doing a generally good job, because he listens to our feedback. So if there is ever a change we are not content with, we will speak up, and @Knezzen will hear and do it because he's awesome. Nearly everyone here is awesome.
One big resource for Gamers, Artists, Musicians, Video enthusiasts called "Applegraveyard.com" or some other catchy name !
Always evolving, always changing, as Apple casts old hardware / software in the garbage bin (or graveyard cause it's dead), the site picks it up. Old ProTools on Intel (like PT10 HD) no problem, resources here... Mac OS 9... resources here... old scanner working on Tiger... resources here... etc
One Mega-Site that basically picks up all the pieces as an invaluable resource of Mac hardware help guides, driver software, configuration tips, OS specific help and resources spanning all the "stuff' that seems to vaporize as all the little sites disappear.
I believe that would be the Macintosh Garden. And, to some capacity, the "MacRumors PPC" subforum: they started "adopting" people, hardware and software that were being "abandoned" with regards to "early Intel" stuff, since the mods and admins of the main MacRumors forum do not seem to care for them enough for them to have their own subsection. And also because OS X Tiger, Leopard and even partially Snow Leopard are both PPC and Intel-related, like System 7 and Mac OS 8(.1) on 68k and PPC.
I like Mac OS 9 Lives for the fact it is Mac-OS-9-centric. I think your idea is great, but already seems to be well-covered out there (although admittedly audio hardware support may be low in my examples above). The OS 9 focus here gives us more OS 9 input/output specifically. Everything is OS-9-themed. It just wouldn't have been the same if this was "anything old Apple"-themed like TinkerDifferent, Mac Garden or even the ill-fated ThinkClassic that didn't focus on a single system.
Maybe in a few years we will also see "System 6 Paradise" forums and "Lisa & Macintosh XL Sailors" forums somewhere. :) Something a bit more specific than the 68kmla forums. Although more than these, I wish there was a "MacPPC schematics" forum... so we could print our own PCBs for i.e. brand-new MDD motherboards and daughtercards...
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something like a frontpage, something like FAQ stickies, something like tutorials would be nice to have, there is a lot of agreement about this.
but before we ask theo to decide how it should be implemented, everyone who wants this should first write an article, and then we can decide what to do with it.
I'm regularly deep-diving the forum for threads that I haven't read / can't remember having read (hey, 40+ here! :-) )
Often I'm baffled at the good & sound advice you can find somewhere buried deep down in a thread's page 5. Maybe a start would be to have us identify these helpful bits and ask knezzen to tied them up in a kind of FAQ? (with proper crediting)
Because it feels there's already such good answers out there. It's just hard at times to find it. And sometimes you don't even know you're looking for something :-)
I'd be all open to help with that. Basically already doing it, but keeping the bookmarks to myself so far. Somebody else?
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In addition to "Like" button, that several members requested, a "Ignore user" button would be useful.
EDIT. Search function is also somewhat broken - you can only search current topic. To search the whole forum, you have to go to Home page.
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Search function is also somewhat broken - you can only search current topic. To search the whole forum, you have to go to Home page.
I don't recall it very well, but I think this problem might have been there before migration, too. Nonetheless, that's a good catch.
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I appreciate the info on what functions are missing or functioning in a different matter compared to before.
This thread is about what to do in the not so distant future and discuss how to gain more users.
I don't think all the like buttons and search functions in the world will drag more users in here.
I have never joined a forum or community based on how well the search function works or what kind of features the forum software has. The discussions and information has always been the selling point for me.
I promise that I will look into the features, but it has only been about 3 weeks since the site moved and I right now other things have a higher prioritization, like the downloads being moved to new hosting.
I'm just one guy. I can't do more than one thing at a time (like any guy) ;)
Have faith in the future and all will be well :)
And once again, thanks for all the input! It really helps a lot.
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I don't think all the like buttons and search functions in the world will drag more users in here.
No. Never. But, why would they feel the need to come here? All that they need is available on you other site without any extra efforts. Just click, click and run away.
I'm just one guy.
What you're doing is very much appreciated! :)
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All that they need is available on you other site without any extra efforts.
In terms of downloads yes, but nothing comes near Mac OS 9 Lives in terms of information regarding Mac OS 9 mods (running on unsupported machines etc) and music/DAW stuff. There's downloads available everywhere, be it the garden, Hotline, Torrents etc so I don't think downloads is the things that will draw people here by the masses. Not in 2024. Times have changed.
What you're doing is very much appreciated! :)
Thank you very much! I'm trying my best to do something great here :)
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I wish I had a dime for every time I've been lectured about the Nyquist theorem by someone who "learned it" from their buddy in a bar!
I’ve had the best discussion with a level software designers in
A bar :)
Kids: drink responsibly or you might end up with thousands worth of NFR ilok licenes and a headache the next day
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In the long run we need to 🏭 a hype
Like in audio: hardware is dead. Using g4s as outboard is the new thing. Here on os9l you get the 📦.
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In the long run we need to 🏭 a hype
Like in audio: hardware is dead. Using g4s as outboard is the new thing. Here on os9l you get the 📦.
Yes, exactly! :D
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Remember the 2000's Mac websites with daily news and how-to tutorials? I'd really love to see a website that is a good bookmark to keep and visit after you've booted up your OS 9 machine. A page you can link to whenever somebody asks: "What is Mac OS 9 and why should one use it?".
I like this. I already like what DieHard wrote in the front page, but pointing out even further OS 9 strengths, and OS 9 tutorials or "Power Tips" (a wordplay on "PowerPC"/POWER CPU ISA), cannot be bad IMO.
For example, RAM DISKS to remove any disk I/O access. It is far faster than SSDs. A tutorial would be simple ("disable Virtual Memory" and "use built-in RAM Disk system or 3rd party solution"), and this is something you CANNOT do in, say, OS X, because there's no option that I know of to disable VM and, even if there is some hidden way, I doubt it would be stable. (Windows is similar, but you can disable it, although it is a bit convoluted, and the OS screams at you if you try to do this, as do other people online, but it worked just fine for me. Using a RAM disk though necessarily requires a 3rd party solution, and there's the general Windows headache of assigning drive letters etc., but none of that PITA BS applies to OS 9.)
Another OS 9 pitch: Snappy fast, zero bloat, no BS. Maybe could even call it the anti-bullshit OS. It IS a generally-accurate statement. Although admittedly it can be antiquated having to manually allocate memory for programs that don't do it automatically, in particular if your monitor is much bigger than what devs expected in the '90s. (Incidentally, apparently MachTen is one of those few programs that will keep dynamically adjusting it for you?)
System backups? Copy+paste your system folder. THE END. Now try doing that with Windows and others, then see how it goes. Even OS X will require more caution than this AFAIK.
Crazy-good compatibility? Run software from 1984 (even 1983 if you include some special software) to 2005-ish or, if you look at the "Mac OS renaissance" today, things like a ChatGPT client and other new software written just now in 2024? So 1984-2024+ software portfolio? We can literally tell people "JOIN THE RENAISSANCE".
Software ranging from System 1 to Mac OS 9.2.2? And it is not visually broken like even OS X 10.3 Panther / 10.4 Tiger are when running them? And that too assuming it CAN be run in ANY OS X version at all? Where is Diablo 1 and Escape Velocity running on even OS X 10.2 Jaguar, which had better so-called "Classic" than 10.3 and 10.4?
Miss UNIX and other POSIX? Try Power MachTen. Need GPU acceleration on it? No worries, Power MachTen ships with the Conix OpenGL add-on, for which we have a registration code in the Garden. Still not good enough? Try MacRelix. ToolDaemon. Even MPW. Shoving a tiny NetBSD install or the like on VirtualPC is also always an option.
What else? Cohesive, coherent, visually-illustrative, modular OS like no other? Not backdoored into oblivion like Windows, GNU/Linux and OS X? Cooperative multitasking = less wasted CPU cycles for when you want to run one specific program (due to no preemptive overhead, as computing is not magic nor miraculous), and/or a set of programs coded to work cooperatively = faster OS than all those that don't adopt this multitasking model? Preemptively-multitasking "Pink" API still available since OS 8.6 for anyone wanting to make such programs? Respectable memory protection since OS 9.1? Compatible with really damn good hardware that holds up well even today with the likes of a dual 2.0GHz G4? The list goes on-- each one of these points can be picked up and expanded upon. Any volunteers? :) I might volunteer for one or two of these... *ahem*
Does any of this help for ideas?
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In addition to "Like" button, that several members requested, a "Ignore user" button would be useful.
When I read stuff like this I am glad I passed the torch. We all all adults here, we are all here (in theory) because of "like minds" or at least a common interest in Mac OS 9. I always felt this alone commands respect to our fellow members.
An "Ignore" user is just plain divisive and can't an adult do this on their own by simply making a choice ? Politics, egos, and self-righteous bullshit should be the last thing injected into a forum that was created to "help" those that needed guidance in regards to getting their OS 9 machine up and running.
Did I always agree with a post... no... did people always agree with me... no; the reason the early days of the forum with Nova are invaluable (even though there were countless arguments) is that there was a goal of making things work; we did not always agree on the direction, but it was a fact-finding mission. Chris tracked down the creator of the ASR and Mactron and I implemented the testing bed. This turned out to be the best tool in cloning and creating disk images with copy protection. We were breaking the barriers in BOTH the software and hardware arenas (imic ROM) even though we had very different personalities that often clashed. The point I am trying to make is that... respecting another member who is also trying to guide a user on the right path, even though you have a different approach to the solution, is paramount. So my last 2 cents is... if you need an "ignore member" button, then you really are not interested in the worth of others or their opinions... surely we can ALL learn from another.
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In addition to "Like" button, that several members requested, a "Ignore user" button would be useful.
You know what they say … "Be careful what you wish for"
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if you need an "ignore member" button, then you really are not interested in the worth of others or their opinions... surely we can ALL learn from another.
I the so called "others" are rude crybullies or someone posting nonsense, then no, I am not interested. ;) Ignore button cleans up threads nicely and makes reading more enjoyable.
If using a faul language is accepted norm here, then fine, from now on I will remove my politeness hat.
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Bears re-posting?
Abridged.
(Underlining mine.)
When I read stuff like this I am glad I passed the torch. We are all adults here, we are all here (in theory) because of "like minds" or at least a common interest in Mac OS 9. I always felt this alone commands respect to our fellow members.
An "Ignore" user is just plain divisive and can't an adult do this on their own by simply making a choice? Politics, egos, and self-righteous bullshit should be the last thing injected into a forum that was created to "help" those that needed guidance in regards to getting their OS 9 machine up and running.
The point I am trying to make is that... respecting another member who is also trying to guide a user on the right path, even though you have a different approach to the solution, is paramount. So my last 2 cents is... if you need an "ignore member" button, then you really are not interested in the worth of others or their opinions... surely we can ALL learn from another.
Quite simply because I could not have said all of this better! ;)
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Bravo @diehard, fully agree. What brings us together is our love and common interest in Mac OS 9. If everybody will be welcomed and be welcoming to others, we will vindicate!
Less "I'm god's gift to the OS 9 community" attitude and more willingness to understand others won't only help the community spirit, but I believe it'll ultimately help in making us a better human being too.
@Jubadub - yes, well said! Join the Renaissance! :-)
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@Knezzen
Now, in all seriousness. The demographic of OS9 user base have changed and so have netiquette, habits and many other things. If you want to run and expand this place, you have to decide which user group you want to address and then act accordingly.
The knowledge of Mac classic enviroment is within a group of people who used it extensively (power users) when it was the one and only OS for them. Those people are now somewhere between 30 and 70 years of age.
My observation on several forums is that the vast majority of newcomers to OS7-9 comes from Gen-Z. My observation also is that most of them tend to 'grab and run away' with anything they can get their hands on (torrents, file vaults etc.) and only subscribe to forums when they need tech support or to request even more "goodies".
And here lies the dilemma - you have to decide which group you want to serve. You can't please them all.
As a site maintainer, you have the statistics, take a look at them. Or, do the users age poll. Let's see what comes out. ;)
More later..
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@Knezzen
If you want to run and expand this place, you have to decide which user group you want to address and then act accordingly....
My observation on several forums is that the vast majority of newcomers to OS7-9 comes from Gen-Z. My observation also is that most of them tend to 'grab and run away' with anything they can get their hands on (torrents, file vaults etc.) and only subscribe to forums when they need tech support or to request even more "goodies".
And here lies the dilemma - you have to decide which group you want to serve. You can't please them all.
I disagree. If what you're writing is correct then "Gen Z" will only join a forum to download stuff and then leave, never contributing anything. The other group will join despite there being no downloads, or the downloads being available publicly (like on Macintosh Garden).
So a non-issue. The group we're "serving" is the group that has a interest in Mac OS 9. There's no "we" or "them" here.
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I disagree.
That's fine with me. The thread is called "Thoughts on the future of Mac OS 9 Lives". I simply voiced my opinion.
If what you're writing is correct then "Gen Z" will only join a forum to download stuff and then leave, never contributing anything.
The other group will join despite there being no downloads, or the downloads being available publicly (like on Macintosh Garden).
The first one is based on my observation, i.e. facts. The second is based on your assumption.
So a non-issue.
Maybe. Just "don't look up". ;)
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So a non-issue.
Maybe. Just "don't look up". ;)
Well, observations are just that. Observations. I'm curious to why it would be an issue. We have 3 or 4 new users on this forum every day or so, none of which are posting. So my observations are quite factual as well, I'd say ;)
And I appreciate your input, don't get me wrong. I'm just disagreeing on your "it's either this or that" conclusion, that's all.
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I've received a LOT of assistance in getting OS9 working on a couple of Minis and a G4 iMac. Grateful to the knowledgeable and patient folks here who put up with my ignorance and helped me anyway.
Most, the majority, of the posts I've read were civil and generous. A few weren't. Other forums I've joined over the years, mostly about motorcycling, were quick to kick people off if someone pushed too far with attitude or word choice or tone. I urge you to adopt a similar approach. First offense, warn and close account for seven days. Second offense, remove from the forum.
We're all adults here, at least chronologically. I don't think it's too much to require us to act like adults. If I refuse to be adult, i.e. civil, boot me.
On another topic: I would love to learn how folks are using OS9 for daily tasks. (Not music, a world about which I am ignorant.) Writing. Scheduling. Shared calendars. Using the internet safely from OS9. Networking. And so on. Think "Office setting."
My goal is have my G4 iMac, a Windows box, and an newish MacBook working together enough that I can, for example, change a calendar event on one and have it update on the others. That's OS9, Windows 11 and OS X all playing well together. Being civil, you might say.
You asked. There's a start on my answer.
Thanks for asking and thanks for taking on this whole delightful mess!
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Most, the majority, of the posts I've read were civil and generous. A few weren't. Other forums I've joined over the years, mostly about motorcycling, were quick to kick people off if someone pushed too far with attitude or word choice or tone. I urge you to adopt a similar approach. First offense, warn and close account for seven days. Second offense, remove from the forum.
We're all adults here, at least chronologically. I don't think it's too much to require us to act like adults. If I refuse to be adult, i.e. civil, boot me.
Fortunately, I don't think we have anyone here that currently matches that description: you can see some beef here and there, but nothing that requires any administrative action. Not even close. IMHO everything here in this thread so far (and most other threads, although admittedly I don't track some of them, in particular the audio-centric ones) has been perfectly within what we can deem fair discussion, and despite different points-of-view, conclusions, attitudes and suggestions, nothing crossed any line here.
I think the occasional opposing suggestions and opinions are good, even, in the sense that we learn from them, and pick up the interesting bits. We move forward in a more informed way. We do not want an echo chamber.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to vilify what you said. :) I do agree with the general point that has been raised (a bit too repeatedly by now, should I say) which is that we want 1. to keep things nice and civil and 2. to work together and/or move forward with things despite disagreements and arguments.
In conclusion, by contrast, if you do want to see what is worthy of a ban and administrative interference, though, look no further than @Rikintosh's pathetic tantrum (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=5685.msg42383#msg42383) (and, while at it, my very fitting response (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=5685.msg43246#msg43246) to him). That was a good number of years back, and that sort of stuff is not at all common here. But if it was, we would also handle it properly, collectively, as we did then.
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Fortunately, I don't think we have anyone here that currently matches that description: you can see some beef here and there, but nothing that requires any administrative action. Not even close. IMHO everything here in this thread so far (and most other threads, although admittedly I don't track some of them, in particular the audio-centric ones) has been perfectly within what we can deem fair discussion, and despite different points-of-view, conclusions, attitudes and suggestions, nothing crossed any line here.
Let me see .. click, click.. (performs a coupe of forum searches, takes screenshots).
Is that kind of language/tone OK here? Wanna see some more? ;)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7031.0;attach=13651)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7031.0;attach=13653)
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So, let's be civil, please. No finger pointing or childish games. We're all adults after all. Yes, you too ssp3.
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Content is not mine, I never use such wording. Just pointing to facts.
So, don't shoot the messenger. :)
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Fortunately, I don't think we have anyone here that currently matches that description: you can see some beef here and there, but nothing that requires any administrative action. Not even close. IMHO everything here in this thread so far (and most other threads, although admittedly I don't track some of them, in particular the audio-centric ones) has been perfectly within what we can deem fair discussion, and despite different points-of-view, conclusions, attitudes and suggestions, nothing crossed any line here.
Let me see .. click, click.. (performs a coupe of forum searches, takes screenshots).
Is that kind of language/tone OK here? Wanna see some more? ;)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7031.0;attach=13651)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7031.0;attach=13653)
OK, I stand corrected. :( Surely enough, it involves precisely those audio-centric threads I admitted not to keep track of.
I won't butt in, though: that would only make things worse, and not help anyone from any side, since I'm not involved in the exchanges. Worst case scenario, I'm hoping you guys can at least ignore each other and move on.
HOWEVER, I think we accidentally started derailing from the thread's purpose a little, and I have some blame in that. So allow me to reiterate, for myself and everyone else: we were deciding on ideas on how to show off Mac OS 9's best parts "to the world out there", and on how we will maintain the forum space. I think most of us here have voiced their thoughts, and @Knezzen will set things into motion accordingly. We will again voice our opinions on the changes as they go.
I am incidentally writing some texts that might be able to help others get into OS 9 stuff. Hopefully these can come in handy someday for whatever new things pop up around here. :)
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Let me see .. click, click.. (performs a coupe of forum searches, takes screenshots).
Is that kind of language/tone OK here? Wanna see some more? ;)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7031.0;attach=13651)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7031.0;attach=13653)
Well, how about that. The first one, although understandable and relatable, was not me, but I'm pretty sure the second two were me.
What our resident guru ssp is doing however, is not showing the threads and therefore the context in which he repeatedly declared his superiority and generosity for even bothering to waste his valuable time
talking down to me and others until he finally provoked the response he so richly deserved.
He had jumped into what was a very long, fairly esoteric discussion regarding MIDI latency and timing HERE:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6978.msg53519#msg53519
Please take a quick look and see for yourself / yourselves how it was going. It was pretty much exactly what you'd want a tech forum to be.
That is, until he decided to crash the party, declaring all involved to be "making fools of themselves" HERE:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6978.msg53574#msg53574
Please see for yourselves how it went from that point on. As you might imagine, it went exactly as you would expect.
Note that this was far from the first time I was treated to his dismissive snark, but I decided that it would be the last.
He also doesn't mention that I declared him to be dead to me as of that moment and I have not, until now, engaged with him or even acknowledged his scintillating excruciating presence in any way.
Please note that I shall continue that policy. It's time you simply can't get back.
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for the most part whenever you log on the internet you should EXPECT to be met with other people that
DONT SEE THINGS THE WAY YOU DO and have drastic DIFFERENCES OF OPINION (and possibly MENTAL ILLNESS??)
if we were all the exact same LIFE WOULD SUCK MORE THAN IT ALREADY DOES
learning to IGNORE things + people you dont appreciate might be A GOOD IDEA
learning not to REACT to them is a better option, never show your hand
"think Different" -afro-
"dont zoom in on the YUCK"
theres many people with personality defects
human beings are VERY flawed in GENERAL
(that includes alot of you losers! LOL!) and im sure theres people who think the same about me.. on with the show, this is it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-t8PngHgWY
https://149645218.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/all-the-worlds-a-stage-1200x1799.jpg
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You guys are not starting it again, are you?
Now that we had this thread and nearly everybody agreeing on that it's time to do away with the animosities and foul language ?
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You guys are not starting it again, are you?
Did you follow the first 5 years of this forum? ;-)
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Can't we try to start with a clean slate and stop all this "who said what" type of discussions? It wont get us anywhere and will definitely scare new users away.
Let's focus on what good we can do instead of who said what negative thing.
We all have our sides. Let's focus on our similarities instead of our differences :)
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its time to pass the ceremonial pipes, stop the arguing over nothing and try to make os 9 enjoyable for the next generation.
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its time to pass the ceremonial pipes, stop the arguing over nothing and try to make os 9 enjoyable for the next generation.
MDD schematics and 7448 upgrades! We gotta print our own PCBs eventually to take care of the hardware side of things for generations ahead. :)
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Can't we try to start with a clean slate and stop all this "who said what" type of discussions? It wont get us anywhere and will definitely scare new users away.
Let's focus on what good we can do instead of who said what negative thing.
We all have our sides. Let's focus on our similarities instead of our differences :)
Hey…… Lovya Knez. All I'm doing is pointing to a small part of the history to ensure that everybody can decide for themselves… and what do I get?
You guys are not starting it again, are you?
Now that we had this thread and nearly everybody agreeing on that it's time to do away with the animosities and foul language ?
"Starting with a clean slate" is a great ideal and I did that more than once. However, I am not one to just close my eyes and keep polishing that slate forever while someone else keeps shitting on it.
I'm NOT one of "you guys" needing chastising for finally responding to a LONG string of insulting behavior.
I've been here for almost TEN years during which I've disseminated a LOT of what I learned about using Macs in general and in music production and I've also learned a helluva lot myself in the process. I have contributed both intellectually and monetarily to help keep this little ship afloat. I am happy to continue doing so but I will not "turn the other cheek" and be insulted indefinitely simply because a self-proclaimed guru is offended that I once had the temerity to question one of his proclamations.
So, he stays in his corner…… I'll stay in mine. You're in charge now Knez, your call.
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I'm not saying that anyone should turn the other cheek. I'm just saying that we all, together (without pointing any fingers at anyone) should try to strive to have an open and friendly community here with focus on solutions and not a "who said what" mentality.
I'm not pointing at you, Gary, I'm talking to everyone (myself included).
And it's not about some people getting some kind of special treatment and the others having to turn the other cheek.
We need to stop for a minute and try to remember what brought us here and what's keeping us here, and just try to let go or handle individual grudges and conflicts that took all the fun away. I think that kind of solution will benefit us all in the long run and will make new people join us :)
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I'm good with that.
Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…………………
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Okay, for me I have this to say:
I am not on the web all that much anymore, or on any of my comptuers but once in a week or so. I have found myself spending way too much time on the web and not doing things like the housework, reading, walking the dog, or any of the other things in life.
So that is why you also do not see me commenting or reading things here. It is not from a lack of interest, it is from the "I need a life other than the Internet."
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Re. forum.
It would be cool if we could edit our own content (attached pictures) without time limit.
I would love to add watermarks to my images attached to older posts so that they do not appear elswhere without proper reference. (see @aBc recent post in masochist thread)
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Re. forum.
It would be cool if we could edit our own content (attached pictures) without time limit.
I would love to add watermarks to my images attached to older posts so that they do not appear elswhere without proper reference. (see @aBc recent post in masochist thread)
See my answer in said thread :)
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Just an idea - if you disable forum search function for non registered users, it might motivate people to register.
(It motivated me in one particular forum).
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Just an idea - if you disable forum search function for non registered users, it might motivate people to register.
(It motivated me in one particular forum).
Good idea! I'll look into it. Thanks :)
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This will not get you very far, I'm afraid.
You have to set a clear set of rules, follow and enforce them!
Here's the post by user TenorClefCyclist on reddit, who gives very good example on what happens.
* Emphasis mine.
** I joined Pro Audio Mailing List in 1997
*** I tried to dig out that list's rules, but can't locate them.
Public forums pretty much always turn to cr@p. It happened to USENET's rec.audio.pro once everyone and their grandmother got web access. Gabe Weiner (RIP) started the Pro Audio Mailing List in response. It was by invitation only -- you had to introduce yourself to Gabe by email. In its heyday, it had lots of industry luminaries: including mastering engineer Bob Katz, Motown engineer Bob Olhssohn, gear designers Daniel Weiss and Eelco Grimm, converter chip designer Max Hauser, and mic modder Scott Dorsey.
There have been pro forums on various platforms in the interim, most of which fell into disuse as the platform itself did. I recall a recording engineer's forum on AOL hosted by Glenn Meadows. Prosoundweb.com still hosts discussion groups run by Klauss Heine and Bruno Putzys, but they are very low traffic now. Sometimes a year goes by before I remember to look at them.
That illustrates the basic problem:
The "network effect" dictates that you need a critical mass of the right members for a forum to be useful.
If you have too few, nobody shows up regularly and questions go unanswered for weeks.
OTOH, more growth means an influx of basically clueless people.
First, they ask tons of elementary and repetitive questions, answerable by reading the FAQ, the first chapter of any audio engineering text, or a two-minute web search.
Then they start answering questions, often wrongly, and arguing when the pros correct them. It's Dunning-Kruger Effect writ large!
Ultimately, the pros get driven away and the forum's signal-to-noise ratio falls into the toilet.
That's pretty much what happened to Gearspace.com . I still try to help people there, but I'm frequently shouted down by folks who think a Schoeps CMC64 is useless because all you need is a SM57. I wish I had a dime for every time I've been lectured about the Nyquist theorem by someone who "learned it" from their buddy in a bar!
Breaking News!
https://www.digido.com/forum/ (https://www.digido.com/forum/)
Image
Digido Fora
Dear fellow Forum enthusiasts:
I regret to inform you that I have not been able to get a sufficient base of users to justify the expense of maintaining this forum. You all have been extremely enthusiastic, informative and active! I especially want to thank my moderators, who put in their best!
But it seems that the vast majority of Facebook groupies prefer to participate in messy, SHORT, non-threaded discussions. The usual FB group "thread" is not really a thread, it's disorganized and cannot be maintained with more than a few cycles of back and forth before they become useless! So I'm very sorry that I have to close this group. If you want to ask questions or start a discussion, feel free to PM me on Facebook. If I can do it, I'll make a post on my home page, where my 5000 friends and 20,000+ followers will likely make a response! It will get messy within a few cycles, but as I said, that's Facebook :-(. That's the most I can afford to offer, sorry!
Bob
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Knez, if you see apropiate I cant try to atract Bob Katz. I am a destacate fan on Facebook. Can we have a place inside the garden multiverse for Digido forum?
https://www.digido.com/forum/ (https://www.digido.com/forum/)
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Breaking News!
https://www.digido.com/forum/ (https://www.digido.com/forum/)
It doesn't surprise me at all.
(This is my 666th post ;D)
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Perhaps a double-edged sword, cutting both ways if one must be registered in order to search… which might open the flood gates (as with digido.com) where “more” is not necessarily better?
"But it seems that the vast majority of Facebook groupies prefer to participate in messy, SHORT, non-threaded discussions. The usual FB group "thread" is not really a thread, it's disorganized and cannot be maintained with more than a few cycles of back and forth before they become useless!"
Sure, overall member number count might increase - BUT you might also end up gaining more “noise-to-signal” ratio postings.
i.e.
“Why won’t my printer work?”
“How can I get louder sound out of my computer.”
“You like Beyonce’? I like Beyonce’.”
And other possibly mundane silliness. I’d say let ‘em continue to search and then if they really have a serious concern, question or comment - THEN let ‘em register to then explore the collective knowledge base or actually, seriously become a part of it. But that’s just my opinion… hoping not to endure similar problems encountered by digido.com (or at least to circumvent such things for as long as absolutely possible).
As it is now, and as it has been for quite a long, long time… many will register, ask their questions and even occasionally offer some insights or even otherwise positive contributions and then simply fade away.
"The "network effect" dictates that you need a critical mass of the right members for a forum to be useful.
If you have too few, nobody shows up regularly and questions go unanswered for weeks.
OTOH, more growth means an influx of basically clueless people.
First, they ask tons of elementary and repetitive questions, answerable by reading the FAQ, the first chapter of any audio engineering text, or a two-minute web search.
Then they start answering questions, often wrongly, and arguing when the pros correct them. It's Dunning-Kruger Effect writ large!
Ultimately, the pros get driven away and the forum's signal-to-noise ratio falls into the toilet."
I really like this Bob Katz guy.
Of the current (nearly 13,500) members here, how many are actually active and contributing?
I’m still a big fan of our old LIKE button - but don’t want this turning into frikken abysmal Facebook.
Don’t destroy the invaluable reference that this site has grown to be... and yet still remains.
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Maybe in a few years we will also see "System 6 Paradise" forums
lol, and not to forget the badly needed "System 6 Pro Audio Enthusiasts Forum" where you can download "sysex converter 0.1b.cpt" using mailboxes.
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I really like this Bob Katz guy.
a person who registers patents for "the delay effect" complains about beginners on an open mailing list. figures.^^
having to deal with complete retards is your daily business when participating in "music forums".
you either survive it somehow, or you must stay in your inner circles of ITU, AAA, the warez scene, the universities, the industry, you name it.
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Fully agree on the terrible Facebook-style low-attention span "discussions" that fade from memory as fast as from your news feed. One of the reasons I deleted my FB account and haven't missed anything since.
But why the negative attitude towards newbies? Do I perceive this wrong ? (quite possible!)
I think OS 9 newbies today would be either people returning to Mac OS 9 after two decades or young people interested in old tech. Given our forum is about Mac OS 9, I don't think we can expect any "mass assault" by newbies any time in the near future.
A forum like ours actually lives by newbies coming in, asking questions. Sometimes challenging conventional wisdom? Sometimes asking questions nobody has asked before? Yes, sometimes asking silly stuff too?
If a forum degrades into a place where the same old elite hangs out patting their shoulders while "dissing noobs", it's destined for doom - my opinion.
I think it'd be cool to be a welcoming place for newbies, even if that means the occasional "dud" asking why sound doesn't work (for the 258th time). But it's like with good employees - you don't get the "perfect match" to join. You need to get them when they're still somewhat green and have them develop. Every single one of us has been in that group.
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The mere suggestion that my position be misconstrued as elitist or anti-newbie is personally rather insulting. I don’t participate, or test and post results here targeted for an echo chamber.
The idea that one need to register and become a member in order to utilize the search feature of the site is restrictive, reductive and in and of itself perhaps elitist. Does one need to register and become a member of say: System 7 Today, MacRumors, 68KMLA, ThinkDifferent OR even MacRepository or Macintosh Garden - in order to use those search features? NO.
“WE” are an information resource, first and foremost - as are primarily all of the others just mentioned above. In effect, forced registration membership would be closing the door to a great extent for many casually seeking information and forcing all visitors to become members. What’s next, a paywall? Seriously.
Recently it also was suggested that the previous daily visitor count represented bots and other search engine crawlers… and to what extent that might be accurate is rather questionable to me. I tend to view the daily “traffic” number as representative of those that have sought research and resource information - and thus, the primary reason for the site’s viable and continued existence. And of those human visitors, while some… not registered members, they need not become registerred members for the primary purpose of increasing the member count. Again, this site represents an ongoing and growing knowledge base archive that (hopefully) continues to grow and flourish.
Those that wish to become registered members are always welcome. Closing the door to non-members using the search feature reduces and restricts “our” viability… and then those simply seeking information will just as easily “click” elsewhere.
In the past, most motivation to garner more registered members were: (1). Restricting posted image viewing from non-members AND (2). Some downloads were restricted to only registered members. And while I personally didn’t care for #1 - it became more understandable to me, especially after some recent commentary.
Now seriously, considering the restriction of the search feature? Circle the proverbial wagons and Build A Wall, ehh?
I am most definitely not “anti-newbie”. I rather simply do not wish to force ALL to register - OR to further restrict access to non-members. Restrict the search access and the instance of “more elementary and repetitive questions” only stands to increase by forcing those that could have found answers without becoming members before by adding yet another “layer”.
Is “our” success truly measured in the member count, or is it in the “traffic” of daily “Users Online” that this site’s wealth of info is made available to? (Members or not.)
Cheers!
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I'm more inclined to open everything up as much as possible. I think restricting attachments draws less traffic to the site than showing them could. Why? I for one tend to use Google Image search to look for inspiration and/or help regarding some hardware problems. Right now none of the very informative posts about hardware are searchable through search engines since search engines can't index restricted content.
The Vault. I've never posted there to my knowledge and I don't know what the point of it is. I'm not planning on changing it, it's just more or less an enigma to me and has always been. I don't see the need for it or the point of it.
Searching. It's an idea to restrict it, but you could always use Google to search the entire site, so there's easy ways to get around it.
I'm more inclined to lift more or less all the restrictions we have now on content than to inflict even more restrictions. Traffic is what brings people here, a good and healthy community around very good information is what keeps people here. Right now I feel like we're restricting traffic.
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You do realize that many of attachments and downloads here are in the "grey zone", to put it mildly. ;)
IMO, it's better to be safe than sorry.
Re. restricted search - it was just an idea. Non-registed users could still browse the forum. And, by registering, they might discover more goodies and spread the word.
But, Knezzen, at the end of the day, it's your forum now, you can run it however you wish. Only time will tell whether you've chosen the right path or not.
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You do realize that many of attachments and downloads here are in the "grey zone", to put it mildly. ;)
IMO, it's better to be safe than sorry.
But, Knezzen, at the end of the day, it's your forum now, you can run it however you wish. Only time will tell whether you've chosen the right path or not.
A lot of downloads on Macintosh Garden are in the "grey zone" as well, but we have yet to have any real issues. I do understand what you mean and respect your opinion. As I mentioned, nothing in the Vault will go public.
I'm merely a caretaker of this place, I see it as OUR forum and platform ;)
I'm just trying to make the best of this wonderful place and I believe that it has the potential of being so much more than what it is now.
Recently it also was suggested that the previous daily visitor count represented bots and other search engine crawlers… and to what extent that might be accurate is rather questionable to me.
Well, it's just facts. "Real" users doesn't come close to the hit rate the bots do.
Here's some numbers from a few days in March for example:
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7031.0;attach=13678)
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You do realize that many of attachments and downloads here are in the "grey zone"
he has a point though.
when we allow anyone to upload anything (which is a good thing) and at the same time you can see all of this stuff when not even registered (which also can be a good thing), certain problems can appear.
cracked OSX software is one example. the SATA card beta drivers is another one.
a minimal hurdle can have advantages, too.
however, to fullfill our mission, as much content as possible should be discoversable by using google.
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Actually, I ment manipulation of any binary, irrespective of operating system. ;)
Anyway, @Knezzen, the html links contained in various posts end up in nirvana. You need to run some sort of "change & replace" on the whole database. BBEdit?
Example:
dead link (old):
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4337.0.html
working:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4337.0.html
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however, to fullfill our mission, as much content as possible should be discoversable by using google.
Making attachments public only affects the boards which are public (as in the ones you can browse around in without being logged in). I think that making these attachments open to the public would draw more people.
And, as a side effect, it would be easier for people to find stolen content. As in, it's only a Google search away and you'll see that the image posted on website X or on YouTube video Y has it's origins here. Now you need to be logged in on the forum and search the forum using our built in search in order to find it. Much harder for the general public to see through stolen content.
Anyway, @Knezzen, the html links contained in various posts end up in nirvana. You need to run some sort of "change & replace" on the whole database. Here's the example:
dead link (old):
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4337.0.html
working:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4337.0.html
Yes, I'm very aware and I have tried to fix it to no avail. The first link uses a very old way of making URL's more "search engine friendly". A way of doing it that is technically incompatible with modern web servers, so I'm afraid they can't be fixed without downgrading everything and making the server and the forum VERY insecure (think bots everywhere, all the time). The only thing we can do at this point is to edit the posts we stumbled upon (ask a mod using the "report post" function) to change it to the technically original, unaltered link (the second link).
I can look into scripting the thing, but I'm not sure if it's worth the effort.
Sorry. Everything can't be fixed in a heartbeat.
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TBH, I have no idea in what format the forum database is stored, but, if it is in some sort of text format, BBEdit might be the tool for the job.
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It's in a SQL database. I'll have a look if I can do a nice SQL query to solve it.
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And, as a side effect, it would be easier for people to find stolen content. As in, it's only a Google search away and you'll see that the image posted on website X or on YouTube video Y has it's origins here. Now you need to be logged in on the forum and search the forum using our built in search in order to find it. Much harder for the general public to see through stolen content.
As if anyone cares about origins of stolen content these days - Pinterest and YouTube are full of it >:(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMR45cZbvDw
P.S. Testing various image watermarking utilities right now.
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Knez, if you see apropiate I cant try to atract Bob Katz.
when you have 5000 facebook friends you have lost control over your life!
(or does this already happen when you register a patent for a delay effect or a shelving filter? i can´t remember. :) )
that is also why these people need 20 years to find out that those facebook-style sites just do not work as knowlegde databases or as searchable forum. you must already have lost control before you attempt to use antisocial media as platform.
there is nothing better than the classic trio of CMS: blogs, forums, wikis.
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Another suggestion.
When one decides to place attached images inside the post, it would be cool if thumbnails were no longer visible.
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When one decides to place attached images inside the post, it would be cool if thumbnails were no longer visible.
Not really possible without rewriting the core of the forum software.
Sorry.
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Hello, I am not going to comment on all the changes because I am a "recent" registered user, before I only came as a spectator.
Thanks to your OS 9 for Mac Mini, I started collecting them.
Just mentioning that the "like" button was a good incentive. For a few months now I have been performing extreme overclocks on the Mac Mini G4, in your forum I have published the achievements, and without the like, it seems that only a couple of people have seen it, those who have responded. It seems like no one has any interest in these hacks. And I think, maybe it's not worth the effort to show it if no one is interested anymore.
How do I know how many people have benefited from the contribution? only the two that responded? or maybe there are thousands of people?
Apart from this, THANK YOU very much for the effort you make to keep the forum alive. I only collect Mac computers that can run up to OS 9, if a Mac only supports OS X, it is not for me.
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For a few months now I have been performing extreme overclocks on the Mac Mini G4, in your forum I have published the achievements, and without the like, it seems that only a couple of people have seen it, those who have responded. It seems like no one has any interest in these hacks. And I think, maybe it's not worth the effort to show it if no one is interested anymore.
Dont worry indibil, people do read your posts. It's just that not that many here can talk about such specific technical issues or duplicate at their homes what you have done.
And, you're not the only one here who sometimes thinks that he is talking to himself. ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks @indibil! As you may know I am currently attempting to replicate your work with the copper heatsinks for the Mac mini (and eventually) your new approach to overclocking the minis too. And I most certainly appreciate the time and extra effort that you expend to translate your information from your native tongue to English. And while I am certain that many here do read your posts, not all will take the time to comment in a similar fashion as this. Keystrokes and more keystrokes just to say yes, your contribution is great, it’s appreciated or I agree with what you’ve done… keep up the good work!
When a simple “click” can convey all of the above. Certainly, this helps to further illustrate just how useful and important the old “Like” button could actually be?
So, in absence of the that old button I have created the following graphic in your honor, that can be freely copied and pasted by anyone here, elsewhere, should they choose to do so. Rather simply because as your avi states: “I’m crazy, I know.”
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7031.0;attach=13801;image)
Thank you indibil for all of your efforts! Keep up the great work, it is appreciated more than you may know. I am quite glad that you are here. “Think Different” indeed!
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Just mentioning that the "like" button was a good incentive. For a few months now I have been performing extreme overclocks on the Mac Mini G4, in your forum I have published the achievements, and without the like, it seems that only a couple of people have seen it, those who have responded. It seems like no one has any interest in these hacks. And I think, maybe it's not worth the effort to show it if no one is interested anymore.
Well, it is always a "thankless" job at the moment when venturing into new territory and pushing the boundaries, but it does touch more people than you realize; I can personally attest that a lot of discoveries and documentation will entertain and thrill many in the future. This forum is a great reference tool and your efforts do not go un-noticed. Judging from the amount of reads and downloads about the mini, it may be our most remembered achievement, and thus the ability to squeeze more CPU out of it will interest many today and in the future. Just think how YOU used to be a "spectator" and now a contributor; I am sure you appreciated the info. that you read about and never commented on...
Perhaps there are many like me, that read your posts in absolute awe; I have been doing hardware repairs on mac for many years, but mostly troubleshooting and component swapping, with an occasional power jack solder, but definitely not soldering small resistors and changing voltage values, my old eyes/hands have missed that boat. I am sure that others with that ability, will follow your steps, just be aware that the search for such info may be today, tomorrow, or even a few years from now... the point being, if you do not post your achievements, they will not be there when they are needed.
So, it is a personal choice, go thru the effort and post, or just experiment for your own amusement and let the knowledge die out. I cannot advise you on this journey, nor would I demand you to spend your valuable time with such posts... but I can tell you, you are very likely appreciated much more than you can measure by responses to your posts :)
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For a few months now I have been performing extreme overclocks on the Mac Mini G4, in your forum I have published the achievements, and without the like, it seems that only a couple of people have seen it, those who have responded. It seems like no one has any interest in these hacks. And I think, maybe it's not worth the effort to show it if no one is interested anymore.
Dont worry indibil, people do read your posts. It's just that not that many here can talk about such specific technical issues or duplicate at their homes what you have done.
And, you're not the only one here who sometimes thinks that he is talking to himself. ;D ;D ;D
"Like"
Thanks @indibil! As you may know I am currently attempting to replicate your work with the copper heatsinks for the Mac mini (and eventually) your new approach to overclocking the minis too. And I most certainly appreciate the time and extra effort that you expend to translate your information from your native tongue to English. And while I am certain that many here do read your posts, not all will take the time to comment in a similar fashion as this. Keystrokes and more keystrokes just to say yes, your contribution is great, it’s appreciated or I agree with what you’ve done… keep up the good work!
When a simple “click” can convey all of the above. Certainly, this helps to further illustrate just how useful and important the old “Like” button could actually be?
So, in absence of the that old button I have created the following graphic in your honor, that can be freely copied and pasted by anyone here, elsewhere, should they choose to do so. Rather simply because as your avi states: “I’m crazy, I know.”
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7031.0;attach=13801;image)
Thank you indibil for all of your efforts! Keep up the great work, it is appreciated more than you may know. I am quite glad that you are here. “Think Different” indeed!
"Like"
Just mentioning that the "like" button was a good incentive. For a few months now I have been performing extreme overclocks on the Mac Mini G4, in your forum I have published the achievements, and without the like, it seems that only a couple of people have seen it, those who have responded. It seems like no one has any interest in these hacks. And I think, maybe it's not worth the effort to show it if no one is interested anymore.
Well, it is always a "thankless" job at the moment when venturing into new territory and pushing the boundaries, but it does touch more people than you realize; I can personally attest that a lot of discoveries and documentation will entertain and thrill many in the future. This forum is a great reference tool and your efforts do not go un-noticed. Judging from the amount of reads and downloads about the mini, it may be our most remembered achievement, and thus the ability to squeeze more CPU out of it will interest many today and in the future. Just think how YOU used to be a "spectator" and now a contributor; I am sure you appreciated the info. that you read about and never commented on...
Perhaps there are many like me, that read your posts in absolute awe; I have been doing hardware repairs on mac for many years, but mostly troubleshooting and component swapping, with an occasional power jack solder, but definitely not soldering small resistors and changing voltage values, my old eyes/hands have missed that boat. I am sure that others with that ability, will follow your steps, just be aware that the search for such info may be today, tomorrow, or even a few years from now... the point being, if you do not post your achievements, they will not be there when they are needed.
So, it is a personal choice, go thru the effort and post, or just experiment for your own amusement and let the knowledge die out. I cannot advise you on this journey, nor would I demand you to spend your valuable time with such posts... but I can tell you, you are very likely appreciated much more than you can measure by responses to your posts :)
"Like"
:) :)
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I hear ya about the "like" button, but I haven't even gotten around to see if the plugin/code is compatible with the new version of PHP we're running now after the move. I'm just one guy, you know, and I'm rushing slowly :)
On a personal note on the topic of like buttons; it's proven many times that like and dislike buttons "dumb down" user interaction and communication, and holds back actual discussion. Instead of simply writing a sentence like "I appreciate what you're doing, keep it up", people simply slam the like button and away goes any ability to give your mind a chance to form an opinion on whatever topic you "liked". No discussion. Just single posts with information with "likes".
We do seem to have a fairly large user base in favour of a like button though, so I will do a poll on the matter and see where we land.
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I like that downloads are accesible again thru an Mac OS 9 machine. I could still download them from Windows or Mac OS X before, but for a purist user with only a Mac OS 9 machine (are you really that offuscated?) was a plus.
I understand that youtube links "break" compatibility with OS 9 browsers, but the forum was clearly richer and more visual when we had youtube links in screen. And the videos were clickable/watchable within the forum.
More than 10 "rich" post from me have been ruined (or screwed) with this "you have a Mac OS 9 browsable"post policy. There should be a place where youtube links and mini player are allowed.
I browse the forum 60 percent on my smartphone, 30 percent on a windows machine and 9 percent on Mac OS X. Only browse it on 9 to download attachments from post that I am afraid of it loose its fork.
Ditching youtube videos has made the forum some steps backward IMHO.
We could put a flag (Youtube Content) or something similar for the user that is running Mac OS 9 to not click in. Or make a zone where YT links are full and allowed.
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I like that downloads are accesible again thru an Mac OS 9 machine. I could still download them from Windows or Mac OS X before, but for a purist user with only a Mac OS 9 machine (are you really that offuscated?) was a plus.
I understand that youtube links "break" compatibility with OS 9 browsers, but the forum was clearly richer and more visual when we had youtube links in screen. And the videos were clickable/watchable within the forum.
More than 10 "rich" post from me have been ruined (or screwed) with this "you have a Mac OS 9 browsable"post policy. There should be a place where youtube links and mini player are allowed.
I browse the forum 60 percent on my smartphone, 30 percent on a windows machine and 9 percent on Mac OS X. Only browse it on 9 to download attachments from post that I am afraid of it loose its fork.
Ditching youtube videos has made the forum some steps backward IMHO.
We could put a flag (Youtube Content) or something similar for the user that is running Mac OS 9 to not click in. Or make a zone where YT links are full and allowed.
I have no idea which policy you're referring to, but ALL plugins where disabled when the forum moved since it wouldn't run on newer server software with plugins enabled. Since then I have enabled the bookmarks plugin since it looks like it's compatible with the version of PHP we're now running for security reasons. I'm not disabling features to mess with anyone and I haven't specifically removed YouTube mini player support to cater for "purists".
So let's get things straight here.
- I'm trying to get the site up and running on modern and secure server software to keep everyones passwords and login credentials safe.
- I'm trying to get the site running on modern and secure server software to keep bots at bay.
- I'm trying to clean up the forum structure to make it easier for newcomers to grasp what we're all about and get them to join in on the discussions here.
And still I get the feeling that some think that everything I do and all the changes are done with malicious intent. That all I want to do is disable features just because.
Try to see the larger picture here. Please.
And about your posts that got "ruined", Protools5LEGuy; post a link to one of them so I can see what shortcode is used for the mini player so I can narrow it down to which plugin that generates them and I'll have a look.
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Knezzen I think we're all very happy and appreciative of your amazing work, and that there's just a few of the old features missing that we've become accustomed to.
Good things take time and I'm sure we'll see most of them make a comeback. You've taken on a big workload with this forum, and things like these do take a lot of time to implement. This thread has been a good space to vent any frustrations and I'm sure there's no malicious intent directed at you. It's a good space to note features that made things easier for us :)
Here's one post I found today which seems to have broken styles, it may be related to ProToolsLEGuy's findings:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1965.0
Keep up the good work, what you're doing is appreciated!!
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Hang in there, @Knez! :D
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Yes, Knez is doing a great job and it will take some time... the forum desperately needed php and other versions updates that I specifically dragged my feet on because I knew it would break many of the custom Mods I purchased and added years ago.
The main page had a dynamic frame based Mod that would display News, messages, stats, and other member info. and anchor this info in sub-pages; it was implemented way back in 2015 and whenever I tested forum updates, this was one mod that freaked out and stopped to work, as did other SMF Mods.
So literally 99% of the new issues could not be avoided when the forum got a code face-lift. We had far too many security issues with the older SFM versions so trust me, we needed to update. Chris helped me back in the day, manually modify code so we had some cool features like default alphabetical sorting of topics on certain download boards; but unfortunately, updates just replace the procedures with never versions, and thus wipes out any user modified code in the core areas.
That being said, I am sure we can add some new modern mods that will be compatible as time goes on; I am in the process of looking thru my invoices of what I purchased and to see if there are new versions of the mods. At this point it is unfair to have Knez shell out cash for all these mods, so I suggest as I find each one, we can make a poll, and if it is wanted, then we can all pitch in.
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Thank you all for your kind words :)
DieHard: If you find something, please let me know. It would mean a lot.
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That being said, I am sure we can add some new modern mods that will be compatible as time goes on; I am in the process of looking thru my invoices of what I purchased and to see if there are new versions of the mods. At this point it is unfair to have Knez shell out cash for all these mods, so I suggest as I find each one, we can make a poll, and if it is wanted, then we can all pitch in.
Yes, those that have made monetary donations in the past are certainly quite likely still willing to do so now, in order to help perpetuate this Forum’s on-going existence and continued growth.
In fact, for many of the various parts and disks that I have sent out free of charge over the years I requested only that a small donation be made to the Forum (“to keep the lights on”). And this was never mandatory. Completely and utterly voluntary.
So Knez, please do not hesitate to provide appropriate PayPal (etc.) info for this. ;)
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So Knez, please do not hesitate to provide appropriate PayPal (etc.) info for this. ;)
A humble THANK YOU from me! I'm thinking of setting up a Patreon for donations or a monthly "buy me a beer" type of thing to help out. Of course totally voluntary.
Thanks again for the kind thoughts and words :)
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I have no idea which policy you're referring to, but ALL plugins where disabled when the forum moved since it wouldn't run on newer server software with plugins enabled.
...
Protools5LEGuy; post a link to one of them so I can see what shortcode is used for the mini player so I can narrow it down to which plugin that generates them and I'll have a look.
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2287.msg13767#msg13767 (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2287.msg13767#msg13767)
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6985.0 (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6985.0)
The "no youtube " policy changed links and it is a hard work to see the video.
To insert a YT video you had to copy the number from the url, but that is the only thing that we see now.
You have to open a ramdom video on youtube, change tab, copy the number from the post, change tab and paste the number with precision. An amount of work that only a fistfull of users will do.
The button to insert youtube links was after the insert image link, insert hyperlink, insert mail and insert FTP link
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The policy started right with this post and my conmiment to change them
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=3047.0 (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=3047.0)
But little to none links were changed.
I started posting videos on the "News" for every PowerPC or Mac OS9 thinking it were a safe place for them, and leaving the rest with minimum or none YT links.
Then another post that I cant find right now went more deeply on it (GaryN participated on it IIRC) and it was decided to mute/parse all YT links
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I'm going to make a suggestion, but I know it would be a very tedious task.
If you are not logged in to the forum, you cannot see the images. That's not a problem, but in my case, when I use Google Translate to translate an entire forum page, I have the text in my language, but I can't see the images. Either I translate paragraph by paragraph, or I have to have two windows open and consult text in one and photos in the other.
Would it be possible to somehow integrate Google Translator or something similar in the forum, and that you can select the language and that, by maintaining the login, you can read it in your language?
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The policy started right with this post and my conmiment to change them
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=3047.0 (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=3047.0)
But little to none links were changed.
I started posting videos on the "News" for every PowerPC or Mac OS9 thinking it were a safe place for them, and leaving the rest with minimum or none YT links.
Then another post that I cant find right now went more deeply on it (GaryN participated on it IIRC) and it was decided to mute/parse all YT links
I never thought embedded YouTube videos could become such a problem, but upon reading @Mat's post, now that I'm thinking about it, y'know, he's absolutely right! Especially with regards to the privacy bit: even on an Ultra Modern System™, no one should be subjected to the privacy creeps of embedded video content, that too from a company as demonstrably vile and dangerous as Google.
I, too, vouch for using simple URLs only, and for this reason alone, even more so than for "Mac OS 9 compatibility", and let the forum user decide whether to click on it (and thus make the decision to harmfully render it on their own machine) or not. With the URL rather than that shortened link code, we can also use various YouTube proxy services, some of which have the ability to do away with this problem.
I would seriously suggest we do not bring back embedded video for these security and privacy reasons. This isn't some "minor" or cosmetic thing like the "Like" button-- this is actually a SERIOUS, real-world problem. I should have noticed, and pointed out, this earlier. Also, plain URLs are pretty easy and convenient in any case, so we also don't have much of a practical nor functional need for them, to top it off.
It would be great if we could somehow fix the existing URLs into real URLs, though ,so they aren't left broken. I assume usage of such embedded videos are rather rare and exceptional, so maybe it's something mods could locate and change/edit manually, rather than this having to be done by @Knez from the side of the forum's code or database data.
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I'm fully on board with Jubadub and Mat on the YouTube links issue. Broken older posts are a problem and probably need some SQL magic to fix them. Sharing YouTube stuff as a link rather than embedding them means just one more click for those interested, but so much more benefit to all. (as laid out in Mats 2016 post)
Besides, I'd love to see the forum perform fast and reliable on Mac OS 9, to be at least one sanctuary you can safely browse to with your OS 9 machine. Those of us daily driving Mac OS 9 would be really thankful for that and I don't think it's asking too much, but well within the technical realms of what is possible. (a forum open to ALL, both new and older hardware)