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[Bolkonskij]

Bravo @diehard, fully agree. What brings us together is our love and common interest in Mac OS 9. If everybody will be welcomed and be welcoming to others, we will vindicate!

Less "I'm god's gift to the OS 9 community" attitude and more willingness to understand others won't only help the community spirit, but I believe it'll ultimately help in making us a better human being too.

@Jubadub - yes, well said! Join the Renaissance! :-)

[ssp3]

@Knezzen
Now, in all seriousness. The demographic of OS9 user base have changed and so have netiquette, habits and many other things. If you want to run and expand this place, you have to decide which user group you want to address and then act accordingly.

The knowledge of Mac classic enviroment is within a group of people who used it extensively (power users) when it was the one and only OS for them. Those people are now somewhere between 30 and 70 years of age.
My observation on several forums is that the vast majority of newcomers to OS7-9 comes from Gen-Z. My observation also is that most of them tend to 'grab and run away' with anything they can get their hands on (torrents, file vaults etc.) and only subscribe to forums when they need tech support or to request even more "goodies".

And here lies the dilemma - you have to decide which group you want to serve. You can't please them all.
As a site maintainer, you have the statistics, take a look at them. Or, do the users age poll. Let's see what comes out. 
More later..

[Knezzen]

@Knezzen
If you want to run and expand this place, you have to decide which user group you want to address and then act accordingly....

My observation on several forums is that the vast majority of newcomers to OS7-9 comes from Gen-Z. My observation also is that most of them tend to 'grab and run away' with anything they can get their hands on (torrents, file vaults etc.) and only subscribe to forums when they need tech support or to request even more "goodies".

And here lies the dilemma - you have to decide which group you want to serve. You can't please them all.

I disagree. If what you're writing is correct then "Gen Z" will only join a forum to download stuff and then leave, never contributing anything. The other group will join despite there being no downloads, or the downloads being available publicly (like on Macintosh Garden).

So a non-issue. The group we're "serving" is the group that has a interest in Mac OS 9. There's no "we" or "them" here.

[ssp3]

I disagree.

That's fine with me. The thread is called "Thoughts on the future of Mac OS 9 Lives". I simply voiced my opinion.

If what you're writing is correct then "Gen Z" will only join a forum to download stuff and then leave, never contributing anything.
The other group will join despite there being no downloads, or the downloads being available publicly (like on Macintosh Garden).

The first one is based on my observation, i.e. facts. The second is based on your assumption.

So a non-issue.

Maybe. Just "don't look up".

[Knezzen]

So a non-issue.

Maybe. Just "don't look up".

Well, observations are just that. Observations. I'm curious to why it would be an issue. We have 3 or 4 new users on this forum every day or so, none of which are posting. So my observations are quite factual as well, I'd say

And I appreciate your input, don't get me wrong. I'm just disagreeing on your "it's either this or that" conclusion, that's all.

[Rainier]

I've received a LOT of assistance in getting OS9 working on a couple of Minis and a G4 iMac. Grateful to the knowledgeable and patient folks here who put up with my ignorance and helped me anyway.

Most, the majority, of the posts I've read were civil and generous. A few weren't. Other forums I've joined over the years, mostly about motorcycling, were quick to kick people off if someone pushed too far with attitude or word choice or tone. I urge you to adopt a similar approach. First offense, warn and close account for seven days. Second offense, remove from the forum.

We're all adults here, at least chronologically. I don't think it's too much to require us to act like adults. If I refuse to be adult, i.e. civil, boot me.

On another topic: I would love to learn how folks are using OS9 for daily tasks. (Not music, a world about which I am ignorant.) Writing. Scheduling. Shared calendars. Using the internet safely from OS9. Networking. And so on. Think "Office setting."

My goal is have my G4 iMac, a Windows box, and an newish MacBook working together enough that I can, for example, change a calendar event on one and have it update on the others. That's OS9, Windows 11 and OS X all playing well together. Being civil, you might say.

You asked. There's a start on my answer.

Thanks for asking and thanks for taking on this whole delightful mess!

[Jubadub]

Most, the majority, of the posts I've read were civil and generous. A few weren't. Other forums I've joined over the years, mostly about motorcycling, were quick to kick people off if someone pushed too far with attitude or word choice or tone. I urge you to adopt a similar approach. First offense, warn and close account for seven days. Second offense, remove from the forum.

We're all adults here, at least chronologically. I don't think it's too much to require us to act like adults. If I refuse to be adult, i.e. civil, boot me.

Fortunately, I don't think we have anyone here that currently matches that description: you can see some beef here and there, but nothing that requires any administrative action. Not even close. IMHO everything here in this thread so far (and most other threads, although admittedly I don't track some of them, in particular the audio-centric ones) has been perfectly within what we can deem fair discussion, and despite different points-of-view, conclusions, attitudes and suggestions, nothing crossed any line here.

I think the occasional opposing suggestions and opinions are good, even, in the sense that we learn from them, and pick up the interesting bits. We move forward in a more informed way. We do not want an echo chamber.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to vilify what you said. I do agree with the general point that has been raised (a bit too repeatedly by now, should I say) which is that we want 1. to keep things nice and civil and 2. to work together and/or move forward with things despite disagreements and arguments.

In conclusion, by contrast, if you do want to see what is worthy of a ban and administrative interference, though, look no further than @Rikintosh's pathetic tantrum (and, while at it, my very fitting response to him). That was a good number of years back, and that sort of stuff is not at all common here. But if it was, we would also handle it properly, collectively, as we did then.

[ssp3]

Fortunately, I don't think we have anyone here that currently matches that description: you can see some beef here and there, but nothing that requires any administrative action. Not even close. IMHO everything here in this thread so far (and most other threads, although admittedly I don't track some of them, in particular the audio-centric ones) has been perfectly within what we can deem fair discussion, and despite different points-of-view, conclusions, attitudes and suggestions, nothing crossed any line here.

Let me see .. click, click.. (performs a coupe of forum searches, takes screenshots).
Is that kind of language/tone OK here? Wanna see some more?

[Knezzen]

So, let's be civil, please. No finger pointing or childish games. We're all adults after all. Yes, you too ssp3.

[ssp3]

Content is not mine, I never use such wording. Just pointing to facts.
So, don't shoot the messenger. 

[Jubadub]

Fortunately, I don't think we have anyone here that currently matches that description: you can see some beef here and there, but nothing that requires any administrative action. Not even close. IMHO everything here in this thread so far (and most other threads, although admittedly I don't track some of them, in particular the audio-centric ones) has been perfectly within what we can deem fair discussion, and despite different points-of-view, conclusions, attitudes and suggestions, nothing crossed any line here.

Let me see .. click, click.. (performs a coupe of forum searches, takes screenshots).
Is that kind of language/tone OK here? Wanna see some more?

OK, I stand corrected. Surely enough, it involves precisely those audio-centric threads I admitted not to keep track of.

I won't butt in, though: that would only make things worse, and not help anyone from any side, since I'm not involved in the exchanges. Worst case scenario, I'm hoping you guys can at least ignore each other and move on.

HOWEVER, I think we accidentally started derailing from the thread's purpose a little, and I have some blame in that. So allow me to reiterate, for myself and everyone else: we were deciding on ideas on how to show off Mac OS 9's best parts "to the world out there", and on how we will maintain the forum space. I think most of us here have voiced their thoughts, and @Knezzen will set things into motion accordingly. We will again voice our opinions on the changes as they go.

I am incidentally writing some texts that might be able to help others get into OS 9 stuff. Hopefully these can come in handy someday for whatever new things pop up around here.

[GaryN]

Let me see .. click, click.. (performs a coupe of forum searches, takes screenshots).
Is that kind of language/tone OK here? Wanna see some more?

Well, how about that. The first one, although understandable and relatable, was not me, but I'm pretty sure the second two were me.

What our resident guru ssp is doing however, is not showing the threads and therefore the context in which he repeatedly declared his superiority and generosity for even bothering to waste his valuable time
talking down to me and others until he finally provoked the response he so richly deserved.

He had jumped into what was a very long, fairly esoteric discussion regarding MIDI latency and timing HERE:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6978.msg53519#msg53519

Please take a quick look and see for yourself / yourselves how it was going. It was pretty much exactly what you'd want a tech forum to be.

That is, until he decided to crash the party, declaring all involved to be "making fools of themselves" HERE:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=6978.msg53574#msg53574

Please see for yourselves how it went from that point on. As you might imagine, it went exactly as you would expect.

Note that this was far from the first time I was treated to his dismissive snark, but I decided that it would be the last.
He also doesn't mention that I declared him to be dead to me as of that moment and I have not, until now, engaged with him or even acknowledged his scintillating excruciating presence in any way.

Please note that I shall continue that policy. It's time you simply can't get back.

[chrisNova777]

for the most part whenever you log on the internet you should EXPECT to be met with other people that
DONT SEE THINGS THE WAY YOU DO and have drastic DIFFERENCES OF OPINION (and possibly MENTAL ILLNESS??)

if we were all the exact same LIFE WOULD SUCK MORE THAN IT ALREADY DOES

learning to IGNORE things + people you dont appreciate might be A GOOD IDEA
learning not to REACT to them is a better option, never show your hand

"think Different" 

"dont zoom in on the YUCK"
theres many people with personality defects
human beings are VERY flawed in GENERAL
(that includes alot of you losers! LOL!) and im sure theres people who think the same about me.. on with the show, this is it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-t8PngHgWY

https://149645218.v2.pressablecdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/all-the-worlds-a-stage-1200x1799.jpg

[Bolkonskij]

You guys are not starting it again, are you?

Now that we had this thread and nearly everybody agreeing on that it's time to do away with the animosities and foul language ?

[Mat]

You guys are not starting it again, are you?

Did you follow the first 5 years of this forum? ;-)

[Knezzen]

Can't we try to start with a clean slate and stop all this "who said what" type of discussions? It wont get us anywhere and will definitely scare new users away.

Let's focus on what good we can do instead of who said what negative thing.
We all have our sides. Let's focus on our similarities instead of our differences

[smilesdavis]

its time to pass the ceremonial pipes, stop the arguing over nothing and try to make os 9 enjoyable for the next generation.

[Jubadub]

its time to pass the ceremonial pipes, stop the arguing over nothing and try to make os 9 enjoyable for the next generation.

MDD schematics and 7448 upgrades! We gotta print our own PCBs eventually to take care of the hardware side of things for generations ahead.

[GaryN]

Can't we try to start with a clean slate and stop all this "who said what" type of discussions? It wont get us anywhere and will definitely scare new users away.

Let's focus on what good we can do instead of who said what negative thing.
We all have our sides. Let's focus on our similarities instead of our differences

Hey…… Lovya Knez. All I'm doing is pointing to a small part of the history to ensure that everybody can decide for themselves… and what do I get?

You guys are not starting it again, are you?

Now that we had this thread and nearly everybody agreeing on that it's time to do away with the animosities and foul language ?

"Starting with a clean slate" is a great ideal and I did that more than once. However, I am not one to just close my eyes and keep polishing that slate forever while someone else keeps shitting on it.

I'm NOT one of "you guys" needing chastising for finally responding to a LONG string of insulting behavior.

I've been here for almost TEN years during which I've disseminated a LOT of what I learned about using Macs in general and in music production and I've also learned a helluva lot myself in the process. I have contributed both intellectually and monetarily to help keep this little ship afloat. I am happy to continue doing so but I will not "turn the other cheek" and be insulted indefinitely simply because a self-proclaimed guru is offended that I once had the temerity to question one of his proclamations.

So, he stays in his corner…… I'll stay in mine. You're in charge now Knez, your call.

[Knezzen]

I'm not saying that anyone should turn the other cheek. I'm just saying that we all, together (without pointing any fingers at anyone) should try to strive to have an open and friendly community here with focus on solutions and not a "who said what" mentality.

I'm not pointing at you, Gary, I'm talking to everyone (myself included).
And it's not about some people getting some kind of special treatment and the others having to turn the other cheek.

We need to stop for a minute and try to remember what brought us here and what's keeping us here, and just try to let go or handle individual grudges and conflicts that took all the fun away. I think that kind of solution will benefit us all in the long run and will make new people join us