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Author Topic: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)  (Read 17460 times)

supernova777

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matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« on: March 19, 2014, 03:26:14 AM »

hey there guys;)

a thought ocurred to me, back in the day + still to this day.. for some reason with my macs ive always had like every ram stick in the machine be from a different manufacturer..
having most of the time gotten the machine 2nd hand..

what id like to propose here + now is the question

could it be that alot of "unexplained mac errors + wierdness"
could be the result of using mix matched ram chips from different manufacturers?

what id like to propose is that, with todays prices its easy to spend a bit of money on ebay to get 4 x matching ram sticks
i would like to replace all of my mixmatched ram with properly matched pairs + sets of ram from the same batch + manufacturer
i have a hunch this would do alot for system stability + getting rid of "unexplained errors"
 + quirkyness..


so what im saying is to purchase a full set of the same exact type of ram in case your mac has different ram chips in each slot
(with different actual size + shape + pattern + arrangement of chips on the dimm etc)

and buy a fully matched set such as this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-2GB-4X512MB-PC133-168Pin-Low-Density-Desktop-168-Pin-SDRAM-Memory-RAM-/150935340566?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item2324728616


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supernova777

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2014, 03:35:19 AM »

consulting the manual for my g4 sawtooth:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac_g4/specs/powermac_g4_450.html
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/PowerMacG4_PCI-AGPSetup.pdf

from the manual:


see it says right in the manual that the system was only built to support a max of 1GB RAM!
and it says it was built to use PC100 type ram

im looking for a QVL (Qualified vendor List) to show which manufacturers were officially qualified + Reccommended
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supernova777

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2014, 03:39:26 AM »

http://www.crucial.com/upgrade/Apple-memory/Power+Mac/Power+Mac+G4+%28350,+400,+450,+and+500MHz%29-upgrades.html

Quote
AGP graphics version supports up to 2GB with 512MB modules, but the PCI graphics version will only accept up to 1GB using 256MB modules

ok yes double checking the name of the manual pdf above.. it is a generic manual for both PCI + AGP g4 models!
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supernova777

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2014, 06:54:19 AM »

when putting ram in a machine always consider
a) the speed of the ram
b) the DENSITY of the ram (does it have chips on both sides? or one side?)
c) the actual memory chip count pieces .. ie: 4 chips 8 chips 16 chips etc etc

never mix ram of different speeds or they will all clock to the lowest, weakest link
never mix ram of different density's or u can have strange unexplainable problems

funny, on my g5 just now my disk utility was crashing everytime i ran it
untill i removed a pair of 256mb low density (single sided) ddr 400 chips
which removed the incomptibility of high density to low density ram in my machine
(now it was only high density double sided chips installed, each 1gb in size)
and all of a sudden.. no more errors.. disk utility launches normally..

ram can be the reason USUALLY IT IS!!! the reason for strange unexplained problems
or rather
inconsistant, improper matched combinations of ram, + innappropriate ram for the machine (ie: wrong speed, wrong density or simply incompatible manufacturer timings)
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MacTron

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2014, 07:29:02 AM »

Just for the record: MDDs can support 1GB DDR400 dimms if they are located at the first memory slots. I'll never have tried to put more than two because Mac Os 9 only sees 1.5GB  max.
As some users are not installing more than 1Gb of RAM, putting only one of this 1GB dimms can simplifies a lot, and solve some weird memory problems.
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Protools5LEGuy

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2014, 10:29:33 AM »

MDDs can support 1GB DDR400 dimms if they are located at the first memory slots. I'll never have tried to put more than two because Mac Os 9 only sees 1.5GB  max.

"Normal" G4 1.42 needs DDR 333 and my G4 866 needs DDR 266. DDR 400 is a must I guess to overclock beyond 1.42 Ghz and 166 bus.
Anyone did try 4 sticks of 1 gig on OSX? Is the memory controller topping it at 2 gig?

512 megabyte 133 sticks on my G3 rev.1 are seen as 256
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DieHard

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2014, 02:37:06 PM »

As Chris said... with G4s always go for the "Low Density" Double side RAM Modules with PPC G4s

Note: For G4s that PC100 (like Sawtooth & Cube), use PC100 and DO NOT USE PC133; PC133 does NOT always function correctly when clocked down to PC100, so it is a good idea to not count on that, where as DDR1 will almost always clock down to the slowest piece (as Chris Said)

Speeds of DDR1 for MDD
PC3200 = 400 Mhz., PC2700=333 Mhz., PC2100=266 Mhz.

Also.. for the Record... avoid Bargain Basement RAM... try to stick to major, tried and true Manufacturers...

The Best...
=======
Micron
Kingston
Crucial

Very Good
=======
Samsung
Hynix

Avoid
=====
PNY
Corsair
Simpletech
No Name at All
All Brands of ECC (Error correcting RAM); Power Mac G4s do not support it
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supernova777

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2014, 05:34:11 PM »

Just for the record: MDDs can support 1GB DDR400 dimms if they are located at the first memory slots. I'll never have tried to put more than two because Mac Os 9 only sees 1.5GB  max.
As some users are not installing more than 1Gb of RAM, putting only one of this 1GB dimms can simplifies a lot, and solve some weird memory problems.

good point. my 867mdd was running on a single 1gb ddr400 module but i just took it out to put in my p4 fileserver box because it has 2 slots. and one slot is bad. but mdd has 4 slots so i put in 4x matching 256mb modules (low density)
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supernova777

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2014, 05:38:22 PM »

"Normal" G4 1.42 needs DDR 333 and my G4 866 needs DDR 266. DDR 400 is a must I guess to overclock beyond 1.42 Ghz and 166 bus.
Anyone did try 4 sticks of 1 gig on OSX? Is the memory controller topping it at 2 gig?

512 megabyte 133 sticks on my G3 rev.1 are seen as 256

another good pt.. always try to use the highest speed ram if overclocking..

re: 4 x 1GB -- it doesnt show up.. only 2gb max on MDD, if u put 3 or 4 it will only show 2GB (i think)

g3 i think works better with pc100 ram..?
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Protools5LEGuy

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2014, 08:23:03 PM »


Also.. for the Record... avoid Bargain Basement RAM... try to stick to major, tried and true Manufacturers...

The Best...
=======
Micron
Kingston
Crucial

Very Good
=======
Samsung
Hynix

Avoid
=====
PNY
Corsair
Simpletech
No Name at All
All Brands of ECC (Error correcting RAM); Power Mac G4s do not support it

In Europe we have only  ADATA, Corsair, G.Skill, Mushkin on 2 gbytes modules
On 1 Gbyte we have   ADATA , Corsair, Corsair ValueSelect, Crucial, G.Skill, Mushkin,Transcend
I think you only would admit http://www.alternate.es/html/listings/Hardware-Componentes-Memoria-RAM-DDR/11542?filter_5=&filter_4=&filter_3=&filter_2=&filter_1=&lk=6550&tk=7&navId=11542#Crucial
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supernova777

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2014, 04:25:26 AM »

As Chris said... with G4s always go for the "Low Density" Double side RAM Modules with PPC G4s

i was of the understanding that:

chips on both sides = high density ram
chips on one side only = low density ram

is this what u meant diehard?? ;0
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MacTron

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2014, 07:08:49 AM »

another good pt.. always try to use the highest speed ram if overclocking..
This is not generally necessary, unless System Bus (=> Memory Bus) overclock ...
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MacTron

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2014, 07:10:53 AM »


i was of the understanding that:

chips on both sides = high density ram
chips on one side only = low density ram

is this what u meant diehard?? ;0

Well, I understand the opposite :)

So, waiting DieHard answer...  LOL
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lokki

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2014, 10:11:23 AM »

well less chips means they have to be of more density to be get to the same amount as double sided ram-sticks. from a logical point of view.
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supernova777

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2014, 11:14:15 AM »

well regardless which is which.. most important idea is to not mix + match these different types..
keep consistant .. install all of one type or the other

and dont mix different speeds
even tho it can work its allowing the possibility for errors!
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lokki

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2014, 04:03:07 PM »

wow i was really tired when writing this... to be get...  -afro-

well less chips means they have to be of more density to be get to the same amount as double sided ram-sticks. from a logical point of view.
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DieHard

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2014, 10:20:46 PM »

Sorry for all the confusion...the chips on both sides thing is not exactly what I meant... this from the web... explains it much better

In the context of the 1 GB non-ECC PC3200 SDRAM module, there is very little visually to differentiate low density from high density RAM. High density DDR RAM modules will, like their low density counterparts, usually be double-sided with eight 512 Mbit chips per side. The difference is that for each chip, instead of being organized in a 64M×8 configuration, it is organized with 128 Mbits and a data width of 4 bits, or 128M×4.

If your system is designed for accepting DDR (Double Data Rate) memories of 184pin DIMM (usually desktops) or 200pin SODIMM (usually laptops) built, for your system to fully recognise 1GB capacity per memory slot, you need to use 'Low Density - 64Mx8 config' 1GB module. If you use 'High-Density - 128Mx4 config' 1GB module, your PC may only recognise it as HALF the size at 512MB or most of the time it will not work.
How to tell if your 1GB module is a low or high density module?

    All low density 1GB modules are made with 16 chips (8 chips on each side) using 64Mx8 device.
    All high density 1GB modules are made with 16 chips (8 chips on each side) using 128Mx4 device.

It costs memory manufacturers almost the same to produce Low Density 1GB modules which have 100% compatibility with all systems on the market, comparing to producing high density 1GB modules. So why would manufacturers be so foolish to produce high density 1GB modules which only have 10% compatibility with systems on the market? The reason is simple, because high density 1GB modules are mainly manufacturing process rejects/seconds that cannot be made as a low density modules. It is very much like Intel CPU, those CPU that cannot be made as Pentium 4 CPU become a slower bus Celeron CPU instead, by a down-binning process.
High Density module is by far much slower than Low Density module at same speed rating say PC3200/DDR400. A lot of users have fallen into attractive CHEAP PRICE trap by High Density module sellers and have complained that they are either VERY SLOW and/or will not run at all and sellers won't accept return!
High density modules are FAR CHEAPER, less than half the price when compare with low density modules and hence high density modules will NOT work on 90% of today's PC chipsets that require and can only use 'Low Density - 64Mx8 config' 1GB modules.
In summary:-

    LOW DENSITY modules have 100% compatibility with ALL systems and ALL chipsets.
    HIGH DENSITY modules only have 60% compatibility and are VERY SLOW.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 08:03:49 AM by DieHard »
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supernova777

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2014, 02:30:41 AM »

    LOW DENSITY modules have 100% compatibility with ALL systems and ALL chipsets.
    HIGH DENSITY modules only have 10% compatibility and are VERY SLOW.

i reviewed this info myself + read further that there were alot of posts saying that alot of this information is false and was stemmed from a post made by some guy on a forum years ago that has been copied a million times and the statements the guy said were totally not accurate re: high densit modules only having 10% compatibility.. etc
alot of it is exageration based on some issues that were happening in and around 2004-2005 with new vs old systems + new vs old types of ram

which goes to show u u cant blindly accept every fact u find somewhere on the net.. ! because alot of the times it can be innaccurate or partially false
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DieHard

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Re: matched ram -VS- mix & matched ram (from diff manufacturers)
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2014, 08:06:48 AM »

** Update... *** Modified ***

Chris is right... blown out of proportion... however...

Changed it to my personal experience... 70% Compatible... 15% see it as half the correct size... and 15% give RAM errors, crashes, etc.

Chris, even if it was 95% compatible... do you want your computer to be in the 5%... not me :)

I have personally been installing 20 - 40 RAM installs / upgrades in a retail environment per week since the IBM PC @ 4 Mhz. in 1983... and I have seen customers buy crap RAM over the years... the best RAM you can get is always the first step to a stable system... period.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 08:51:59 AM by DieHard »
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