Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: smh, the future of web browsing sucks  (Read 2241 times)

chrisNova777

  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 167
  • New Member
smh, the future of web browsing sucks
« on: March 25, 2024, 10:48:38 PM »

i still cant beleive we now live in a world where the browser software developers are so f**kin lazy that they can only compile browser support for os'es from 2019 or above..  (the last 5 years)

its actually insulting that windows has better legacy support then any macos in distribution...


id love to find a way to run a proxy off FreeBSD box or something to serve web content to my machines with "LEGACY" oses, to be able to actually browse the internet properly on my old machines......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWcASV2sey0

top proxy servers?? IPFoxy, Whoer, BrightData, NodeMaven, 4everproxy, SOAX, Oxylabs, Infatica, IPRoyal, NetNut
Anyone have any experience with any of these?

would be cool if there was a mac user who could build us a ProxyServer custom buiit for serving modern web content to older versions of MacOS
Logged

chrisNova777

  • Veteran Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 167
  • New Member
Re: smh, the future of retro web browsing sucks
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2024, 06:03:45 AM »

really surprised to get no responses to this post.... but then again i received the same "blaring silence" when i was speaking about using *NAS BSD to serve files to macos9/X ppc machines via Netatalk/AFP .. a topic i thought would blow up + catch fire with many of the "enthusiasts" here, so SMH... *shrug*

i would think theres alot more retro enthusiasts that would be interested in finding a solution to using old computers on the modern web now that the moron web programmers of 2020 have "taken the internet away" by forcing the whole entire web to be encrypted..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MjZdKtv9ak

heres a video where a guys got an old win9x machine browsing the net by introducing a raspberry pi as a proxy server

surely theres other "solutions"
 
would like to have a CONVERSATION on this topic with some other INTELLIGENT HUMAN BEINGS if there are ANY LEFT OUT THERE
https://www.reddit.com/r/VintageApple/comments/wzbz0j/the_power_of_webone_http_proxy_fills_you_with/
https://www.reddit.com/r/VintageApple/comments/wzbz0j/the_power_of_webone_http_proxy_fills_you_with/

i know there must be other solutions lurking in the shadows... lets shine the light on how to bring back our vintage pcs + macs to the WORLD WIDE WEB that was BUILT BY THEM

http://68k.news/ is another "manifested idea" by creating basic retro-compatible webpage linking to "inaccessible modern content"

really the TLS/SSL cypher bullshit is really the COPORATIONS takin control of our "free internet" (err what we used to call it back in the early 2000s anyway) things will just get more controlled + big brother'ed as long as people just let the stupid corporations dictate the way things should be on the WWW. its a fucking shame really.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2024, 06:18:35 AM by chrisNova777 »
Logged

Greystash

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 235
  • Tinkerer
    • Mac-Classic.com
Re: smh, the future of web browsing sucks
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2024, 03:03:19 PM »

It is a grim outlook :(
I've never bothered with proxying because modern web development has completely left behind the older browsers, they will never support CSS2 or the modern Javascript engines. You'd be lucky to find any relatively popular site that doesn't use any JavaScript.

I started a web directory years ago for websites that are still accessible to older browsers, which has a good list of old and new websites.

I also made a CMS website builder service where you can build websites that are compatible with older browsers and serve them over HTTP, but I've been the only customer so far with mac-classic.com and manticore.nz  ;D I always thought a community of people serving new websites built to an older spec would be a fun idea. However, I don't think there's a huge market for these sorts of things now and people seem to be content with using their newer browsers, but maybe things will change!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2024, 04:23:50 PM by Greystash »
Logged

IoIxD

  • Newcomer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
  • New Member
Re: smh, the future of web browsing sucks
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2024, 07:03:27 PM »

i still cant beleive we now live in a world where the browser software developers are so f**kin lazy that they can only compile browser support for os'es from 2019 or above..  (the last 5 years)

Google Chrome and Firefox* support Windows 10, which was released in 2015. I can't find information on if they require a specific update to it, but I can find that Chrome also supports Windows Server 2016. Chrome also runs on a Pentium 4.

Both minimally support Mac from 2019 and Linux from 2018, yes. The former correlates with Apple dropping 32-bit support, which correlates with them not really caring about backwards compatibility, so I wouldn't be 100% angry at the browser devs. I think the Linux kernel devs also hold that same attitude, and in that case Antix Linux or Artix Linux exists and allows you to run a modern kernel on older machines.

There's lots of reasons to hate the modern web, but I disagree with this being one of them.

*at this point those might as well be the only browsers left. I really hope Ladybird is good...

EDIT: Ok I just realized that FreeBSD support goes back to 12.0, which is probably what you meant. FreeBSD is not the only OS though, and thus my point still stands.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2024, 07:15:56 PM by IoIxD »
Logged

Jubadub

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 399
  • New Member
Re: smh, the future of web browsing sucks
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2024, 03:11:17 AM »

@chris, you can get around the SSL/TLS nonsense using Crypto Ancienne, using Power MachTen or an x86 VM of your choice. No need for extra machines, although that works, too.

I'm satisfied with Classilla 9.3.4b. MacLynx is also good. Older browsers also serve their various purposes well. If a website is coded like cr4p, I don't want to visit it in the first place, it's not even a matter of a browser being able to render it or not, for me.

As for what is happening and has been happening to web browsers in the past decade, and is getting far worse now with scope creep through the likes of WebAssembly and beyond, this is not lazyness. It's sabotage. So f*&^ them. We don't need them, and we especially do not even want them. I don't trust their browser code, for good reason. Did they even get a PPC compiler for Rust going, in the end? That move from C/C++ to Rust in Firefox is yet another thing that, due to absence of compilers for many targets, plus other things, are clear acts of sabotage AFAICT. And this problem is not simply limited as a "corporations" issue, it unfortunately stretches way beyond that. So-called "academia", for example. Agendas such as the decommissioning of what little hardware is left that is still reliable (because semi-old and new hardware both aren't). And more.

TL;DR I don't need a new web browser. Most of us don't. What we need is new websites, not web browsers.
Logged

Bolkonskij

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 230
    • Cornica.org
Re: smh, the future of web browsing sucks
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2024, 04:48:00 AM »

Chris, you're spot on in your statement about (in most cases) senseless encryption and artificially created requirements - quite often coming from the same party that wants us to believe they're advocating "sustainability" (a much hollowed-out term these days).

Take Wikipedia for example. It's a website that serves strings of text and pictures from their server to a user's client. That's so basic web 1.0. It's beyond me why they can't offer an unencrypted access via http, despite numerous people who had asked them about it in the past. After all, Wikipedia complains they want to be that open-to-everybody worldwide encylopedia (but then they hide behind encryption!?)

The problem I see with a kind of public proxy service is the same that I see with the big corp internet of today - you have ONE person that basically controls the traffic and you, the end users, don't really know what they're doing. That goes both ways, btw - how do you know what your users will use the service for ? That's a tricky thing so I would only offer such a service to folks I'm 100% sure they won't do silly things. So rather than centralization, decentralization is the way to go in terms of proxies. Jubadub provided some good links in his post, check them out.

Finally, as somebody who has been using a proxy in conjunction with Classilla for years I can say that it doesn't really solve the problem. Yes, you can reach more websites. But with ever more sites relying on JavaScript to even render correctly (who cares about "progressive enhancement" these days?) you won't be getting far.

The solution as I see it is rather to create an alternative WWW with low tech websites - a web within the web, so to say.

That why I created my projects. And after some digging and searching I found there are hundreds of cool projects - created and maintained by individuals (not corporations). It's just that ever since Google focussed on brands, these will never pop up in Google's search results again and hence go unnoticed. But they exist! It's not that the so-called "fan page" came out of fashion, it's rather that Google & others killed it off because it didn't bring any ad revenue in!

So the real challenge is really finding the unencrypted low-tech websites. I use Wiby.org a lot for that, as it focusses on live websites (not incomplete Internet Archive snapshots from the past). I've fed it two dozens or more URLs already. I'd wish more people would do that.
Logged
Reel changer over at cornica.org & cheat collector at the Cheat Emporium

Knezzen

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1060
  • Pro Tools Addict!
    • Macintosh Garden
Re: smh, the future of web browsing sucks
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2024, 05:20:08 AM »

I think that the WWW is more or less a lost cause. The future (and indeed the past) lays in the old protocols like Hotline, IRC, Usenet and Gopher.

And on the topic of Gopher; it's is actually gaining traction and expanding for the first time in years. If you're on Classilla or Netscape or even have a dedicated Gopher client (like TurboGopher on the Mac) installed, check out System 7 Today's little Gopher Hole and our nice Gopher links for inspiration :)

Put this in your address field: gopher://gopher.system7today.com
Logged
Pro Tools addict and admin at Mac OS 9 Lives!, System 7 Today and Macintosh Garden.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Recent Topics