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[Andre Solomko]

Couldn't agree more. It's not a problem, I thought it could be a fancy to have a device working through all Mac OS starting from 9, Of course its an  unofficial driver, but I don't think its any different from official. And certainly not about firmware.  All trick about disabling SIP and running some tricks, forcing macOS to load a kext. BTW  828 marc2  works well on OS9. Tested and tried.

[IIO]

ОК let me start over: DID ANYONE SUCCEED

the more you discuss with people who only speculate, the more they will continue with that. ^^

just get the drivers i´ve posted and see if it works for you.

in case the speculation with the OSX firmware update to break OS9 functionality is true, there is probably nothing you can do*.
that begins with the issue that m-audio never supported the firmware anyway - they are all from midiman.

the manual shows how to install

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/456511/M-Audio-Firewire-410.html?page=15#manual

*) but that´s just a speculation.

[GaryN]

to say that it just doesnt work is obviously not correct
the product was reviewed in many differnt magazine publications
https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/m-audio-firewire-410
obviously it worked at that point in time and should be able to work now
if it didnt work in os9 they would have reported that fact as the article above
explicitly mentions macos 9.2 and the box itself says 9.2.2 right on it so obviously it did work

I hate to nitpick…BUT: A careful reading of that SOS review reveals the author was testing the unit on a PC and only a PC.
His comments that the unit worked on Mac 9.2.2 were only parroting what was on the box.

That said, M-Audio DID clearly say the damn thing would work under OS 9.2.2 and provided a driver extension to do so.
So, why can't the best minds around here, who collectively know as much or more about this crap as anybody anywhere, get anything out of these things?

LOGICAL POSSIBLE REASONS

1. The OS9 driver doesn't work to begin with
   This, while possible, seems unlikely. It would (even by M-Audio) have been addressed in an update and that update would be floating around somewhere where it could be found.
Brother Macstuff alone has ferreted out so much "lost" software that the mind boggles.
Nonetheless, I did post back in 2018 that:
"I just have to note for the record that: If you search "Firewire 410" on the Forum, you will find an endless series of posts complaining how the 410 simply won't work in OS9 because they never bothered to release a decent driver for it."

2. The unit(s) in question are damaged
    This, sadly may be a very real possibility. Here's what we DO know: A) M-Audio made a very big point about not hot-plugging these things, and made it repeatedly in the instructions. They were adamant that you should expect damage from either connecting or disconnecting them with the computer on. Macstuff pointed this out to RalphieBoy waay back in the beginning of this saga.
B: A large number of them - as with all "old" hardware - were/are floating around without the box, instructions or installer CD. Macstuff ALSO pointed this out in the same post: that there were lots of them with no materials and that a depressing number of people think that reading instructions is just an optional suggestion anyway.
IF this is what's happening, it reveals a damnable, idiotic, basic "you should KNOW better" error on M-Audio's part. EVERY engineer KNOWS people DO NOT read manuals. To release a product that can be rendered un-useable by even accidentally plugging or unplugging it while on is something you learn NOT to EVER do in engineering 101. There is NO excuse for it…PERIOD!

3. BOTH of the above
   THIS, would not surprise me at all.
What we're lacking is a logical scientific test to narrow the possibilities down. This would require someone with a known working dual-boot computer (preferably a G4 desktop where there are NO possible Firewire port issues), a 410, and the installer CD.
What I would want to see first is if that unit would be found to work in OSX and not work in OS9. That would immediately indicate a driver/extension fault while simultaneously eliminating a damaged unit. I would also love to see the contents of an original CD. There may well be ASIO issues not even discussed so far.

Whatever happens, it's clear that something out of the ordinary is going on here. A LOT of people have snagged one of these from one place or another and found they can't make them work. It would be enlightening to hear even ONE success story.

[Andre Solomko]

OK Let me start over: NONE OF DRIVERS POSTED HERE DO WORK. PROBLEM REMAINS. Device tested on OS9.2.2. os4.11.12.6 13.6 I    am not a first day married and I do know about PSU, firewire, ASIO, sound manager , shutting down etc. and I can read. So  question remains; IF ANYBODY SUCCEED WItH DAMN DEVICE IN OS9. I mean  in real life, in this reincarnation, on Earth, etc.

[Andre Solomko]

Gary I  just noticed your replica and yes I have tested it on dual boot machine. Works well on Tiger, not working on OS922 Works great on Lenovo notebook with Sierra Hi Sierra dual boot.
So lets live alone any hardware related bets.

[FdB]

Is it a FireWire / power requirement problem?
Might want to review the entire page below…
and maybe no help here, but wondering if
anyone has tried other power source
under OS 9.2.2? Just a thought.
(Eliminate possible variables.)
Even if it does work under OS X.

From: www.soundonsound.com/reviews/m-audio-firewire-410

[Andre Solomko]

Well i dont have another 12v adapter to try. Maybe someone can try. I use 600mv and do not have original one which should be 1a. Anyway i barely can see how come the same psu works on the same comp  with OSX (mdd) and no luck in OS9'  Usually when you choose psu you want a double from what you really need...but its interesting. But i more believe in firmware theory

[FdB]

One would assume that power under OS X and OS 9 would be the same for the firewire port. But given the initial mentions concerning working with “most of the newer 1394A’s - but not with the older 1394" (mentioned above)… AND also considering little changes that Apple often enacted without announcement… thought this might be worth a test? Contacted Mardeec to see if maybe he will test his M-Audio 410 under this scenario.

I too am inclined to think firmware. But this is a simple possibility - easy to test & to possibly quickly eliminate.

[GaryN]

Gary I  just noticed your replica and yes I have tested it on dual boot machine. Works well on Tiger, not working on OS922 Works great on Lenovo notebook with Sierra Hi Sierra dual boot.
So lets live alone any hardware related bets.

Thank you Andre! Believe it or not, I think you're the first person who has been able to do this.
I seem to recall you said you actually get sound in OS9 but it's "phased" or something equally distasteful.

Anyway, with this set of conditions confirmed, I'm moving solidly into the "driver sucks" camp. Wishful thinking guesses like "maybe it just needs a PSU in OS9 but nowhere else" are just that: Desperate wishful thinking. Unfortunately, this is the worst-case scenario. If the extension is defective, hope for a solution is fading fast. We're NOW at:

* You possibly need some exact / correct combination of OS9 System Extensions or it won't work. However, we don't know what that might be. I DO know there are the "Firewire Enabler" and Firewire Support" Extensions (both version 2.8.7). I think those install only when the computer has FW so a System file from elsewhere could maybe find those lacking. OR maybe there's a conflict with one of them and it's just the opposite. It would be a sick thing if you had to yank the Apple FW enabler to get the 410 driver to work but… Less likely suspects are the Quicktime Firewire DV Enabler & Support that get installed with QT 6.0.3. You will have to test with each one enabled and DISabled to verify.

* Then there's ASIO - my personal favorite pain in the ass. Most / all DAWs need it. It's the intermediary between DAW software and the computer hardware and its ports. It was a then-brand-new 3rd-party (Steinberg) bit that was very loosy-goosy insofar as since it wasn't an official Apple "thing", it was not always well-adhered to by everybody. New DAW versions and new computers often required ASIO "corrections" and updates. This possibility is why I have a next experiment in the last paragraph.

* Lastly, there's the obvious: The stupid driver simply doesn't work properly, it never did and they didn't do a damn thing about it because the entire world was well into embracing OSX and nobody cared because either nobody (or not enough somebodies) complained. While certainly possible, one would think that it must have at least worked well enough to past beta and the more likely problem is a previous one above. I know, that's what you get for thinking…

My next experiment would be to start fresh with a clean OS 9.2.2 and use the Installer CD to install the driver and app exactly as instructed. Then, inventory everything to establish exactly what gets installed and where. Eventually, as more data is cleanly and accurately compiled, something may (or not) begin to point to an answer. If NOT, you'll at least be able to conclude the driver software is defective with some degree of confidence. If there's ASIO, it has to be checked with the ASIO file in the folder with the DAW or "loose" in the Extensions Folder. If there's more than one ASIO on the Installer CD, they ALL must be tested individually. Note there almost certainly should NOT be more than one ASIO floating around at one time.

I'm taking a quick ResEdit look at the 410 installer file. If I find anything else, I'll post it.

[Andre Solomko]

Gary thanks for a detailed input. OK , just not to waste your time: I said that sound is phased and means 1).device is detected  but not usable what actually means *driver sucks*. Besides there is a crazy meter thing which was also described on this respected forum.2).obviously i also tried it on a fresh install . Results are equal with sound manager and ASIO   with QT 5 and 6 etc. Meaning all possible shamanistic passes were executed.Perhaps one thing is missing: I should sacrifice a  black lamb perhaps. So we have left: conspiracy theory that m~audio posted a broken driver..lets call it a Moon hoax 2. Firmware theory 3.psu still remains. In this case we also can read a manual again.trying to find a hidden meaning a-la Holy Bible. Document. Written 20 years ago by unknown apostol. Ask m-audio..is the same chance like ask a Roman pope about Lords favourite football team

[macStuff]

requires 12V adapter.. center positive
model no AD-121AN

samplerate could also be a likely cause/factor
how does one adjust samplerate on os9?
did you even bother to open the driver's control panel after its installed?

[IIO]

Perhaps one thing is missing: I should sacrifice a  black lamb perhaps.

that´s it!

this works for me in a lot of situations.

[Andre Solomko]

Dear  Macstuff !if I am writing about  crazy meters  it probably means that I DID BOTHER to open a control panel. So do you have such a device ? Did you ever try to use it under OS9?  LET ME START OVER: only real experience please.  YES I DO USE A PSU WITH CENTRE POSITIVE. Its just a DC you know. Why we have to go over the same thing? What exactly happe if you would use some other DC adapter, not like At your picture?

[GaryN]

Andre… Although there are those on this Forum who will be amazed I'm doing this, I would like to try to be the group Gandhi for a second and defend macstuff. The venerable macstuff, myself and a few others occasionally fall victim to what I can only call internet burnout. In trying to be helpful and respond to folks asking for help, we run into a depressingly large number of people who: 1, Don't know a switch from a knob; 2.  Have never attempted to read a manual; 3.Think stuff should "just work" because that's what that guy Steve said; 4. Are utterly incapable of thinking logically; 5. Cannot follow instructions; 6. Will not follow instructions; 7. Embody every other aggravating characteristic you can think of.

This does tend to sometimes cause one to assume (I know…) that the person you're currently dealing with is part of that group and treat them with short shrift. (Can't believe I got to use that term…) Some of us have less patience and composure than others. That's not an excuse, it's just a aspect of human behavior.

That said, I respectfully beg Mr. Stuff to consider that Andre's responses in this thread clearly indicate he has a pretty solid grip on the issue and will rightfully feel insulted if/when he is addressed like he's a dolt.

This particular problem is a particularly frustrating one. The fact that it has gone on this long without a solution being found may well indicate there is no solution to be found, that the issue is in software and there's no practical way to remedy it. There are many, many devices that work well in OSX but not in OS ≤9. There are far fewer that claim to be OS9 compatible but aren't. This may well be one of those.

Still working on it…

OMMMMMM………

[Andre Solomko]

Thank you Gary. Since its hard to believe that M-audio released a non working  driver, but let's face it. The most reasonable thing was said but macStuff anyway. Mystery will be  resolved as soon as we find somewhere unused card with a virgin firmware. For me  it's  more a question of curiosity not such a big need

[macStuff]

... you guys are strange and take things way too personally, interpretting offense where none exists ...


im simply adding information to the thread to consider;
because i know that things that seem simple can become very complicated very quickly with the right amount of variables; if what i have to say is not helpful so be it; but it may be helpful to someone else;
this is the internet; people read other peoples threads and collect info; there might be someone else reding this thread trying to find out what power adapter the thing needs; so i added a photo;
its what i have done for many years on this forum and its a big reason for the amt of views that this forum has ever got because of the factual information that ive added here;

 i dont know you and you dont know me from adam, so for you to get upset over anything ive said, says more about your own frustrations and aggravations in life then it does about me, i require no "defense" because there never was any "offence" made or intended;

and yes i am of the opinion that it says it works on macos9 on the box; trust me; it does (or DID) work on macos9; companies dont put false info on boxes; why? because they dont want to have to deal with customers calling them up and saying the same shit for the next 25 years straight; regardless of whether or not the reason has been discovered; there obviously  IS A REASON that its not working

my friend who lives nearby has a firewire 410; i really wish he would lend it to me so i could try to see if i could get it to work; anyway; but his unit has definately been used on later operating systems so if later drivers are indeed to blame for changing the firmware of the unit thats really unfortunate; could the original firmware be saved/cloned and re-written to device that had its firmware updated? not sure; i dont know  that much about firmware via firewire

anyway im done responding to this thread
i have no intention of having someone type at me in capital letters like a baby just because im trying to brainstorm diff possibilities;
good day 'gentlemen'

btw tell Pascal Rioux that Chris Nova says hello

[GaryN]

Thank you Gary. Since its hard to believe that M-audio released a non working  driver, but let's face it. The most reasonable thing was said but macStuff anyway. Mystery will be  resolved as soon as we find somewhere unused card with a virgin firmware. For me  it's  more a question of curiosity not such a big need

Actually, it's a frustrating thing to have such a unit – which would be a fabulous thing to have working for all of the people who run OS9 DAWs on later G4s and such – dangling promise in your face and then giving you the finger.
Now might be a good time to mention that as far as I know (with the possible exception of the FW Audiophile, but don't count on it)
the exact same failure extends to the FW 1814 and all other Firewire-connected M-Audio interfaces.

Meanwhile, here we are on Martin Luther King day, one of the greatest non-violent proponents of peace the world has ever known.
…and here I am…1/1000000 of him.

But just like him, I still get shot for promoting peace too. 

[FdB]

I'm BATMAN!

[FdB]

For those of you possibly new to these on-going & yet still unresolved M-Audio 410 problems…
refer to this entire thread* from 2015: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=1933.0

*Among countless others.

[IIO]

5 years of assumptions, under 5 (or 7?) different names.