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[RTIInstaller]

I have read through several of the video card discussion threads on this site, studied the excellent comparison charts and frankly my head is spinning over which direction to go. There are so many opinions, so many likes and dislikes & potential problems such as is my power supply to small.

I currently have a decent ATI PCI based card installed that supports 1920 X 1080 out of both DVI and VGA ports, but I want to get away from using the PCI bus.

I have a couple of variations of the rage 128 pros that are crap. I also have a geforce MX 2 but I don't have the ADC to DVI adapter and the VGA output is terrible quality.

My OS9.2.2 rig is only used for Protools 5.1.3, I don't do anything else with it. can some one please definitively point me to an AGP video card I don't have to flash or jump through any hoops with. One that doesn't have a noisy fan on it as I have already spent a considerable amount of time replacing all the fans and modifying the chassis to make my G4 nearly dead silent. Most important, that has dual video out (preferably dual digital) that I can install, turn on and get to work with no fuss?

It doesn't have to be the best card, just a good enough card that will display tools mix and edit windows clearly on a 27 and 24 inch 1080p screens at 1920 X 1080 resolution. Also it must be a card I can actually find on ebay.

I greatly appreciate all of the amazing help I have received from this site, you all have saved my bacon many times.

[Protools5LEGuy]

nVidia GeForce 4 MX

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NVIDIA-Geforce4-64M-AGP-630-3845-603-0133-VGA-ADC-MAC-G4-Working-/201303084705?hash=item2ede994ea1:g:3~UAAOSwBahU~AMR

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NVIDIA-Geforce4-64M-AGP-630-3845-603-0133-VGA-ADC-MAC-/272324227176?hash=item3f67c9f068:g:jmoAAOSwTZ1Xm4rq

But I have the 32 M version with DVI+ADC

[Protools5LEGuy]

ADC to DVI

http://www.ebay.com/itm/adc-male-To-dvi-female-Monitor-Adapter-Cable-For-Apple-G4-G5-Working-/162367406850?hash=item25cdda0302:g:XDkAAOSw241YhGxA

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ADC-to-DVI-APPLE-MONITOR-ADAPTER-CONNECTOR-DVI-24-PIN-APPLE-DISPLAY-CONNECTOR-/142246048035?hash=item211e867123:g:Q6MAAOSwImRYerEn

And the Formac ones

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-DVI-to-ADC-Display-Adapter-Formac-/332087495756?hash=item4d51f50c4c:g:RU4AAOSwo4pYZXxN

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-DVI-to-ADC-Display-Adapter-Formac/232196075003?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D67d33d4aa146472daa4c27165a8e1c2a%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D332087495756

The flexible ones are mean to be used since the PowerMac G4 Cube.

The formac adapter is for towers.

[RTIInstaller]

Thanks Protools5LEGuy !

What about dual digital? or does that lead me into flash only territory?

[RTIInstaller]

Is this the card you have? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Video-Card-Nvidia-GeForce-4-MX-32MB-ADC-DVI-Power-Mac-G4-661-2647-630-4099-/331789770875?hash=item4d4036207b:g:IkEAAOSwu4BVtqKa

[IIO]

and the VGA output is terrible quality.

My OS9.2.2 rig is only used for Protools 5.1.3, I don't do anything else with it.

Most important, that has dual video out (preferably dual digital)

for protools? you have quality issues with using VGA?

i believe the geforce are out of the game then; the only dual dvi-i / dvi-d card should be the radeon 9000 ... but i am not so sure if it exists for AGP...

[Protools5LEGuy]

Is this the card you have? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Video-Card-Nvidia-GeForce-4-MX-32MB-ADC-DVI-Power-Mac-G4-661-2647-630-4099-/331789770875?hash=item4d4036207b:g:IkEAAOSwu4BVtqKa

Yes and it allowed me dualdisplay via one ADC to DVI adapter. But those 64Mb ones should be quicker.

[RTIInstaller]

and the VGA output is terrible quality.

My OS9.2.2 rig is only used for Protools 5.1.3, I don't do anything else with it.

Most important, that has dual video out (preferably dual digital)

for protools? you have quality issues with using VGA?

i believe the geforce are out of the game then; the only dual dvi-i / dvi-d card should be the radeon 9000 ... but i am not so sure if it exists for AGP...

I am older than apple so I have declining vision. I am running 1920 X 1080 off my ATI PCI card DVI output and it is a huge improvement for me over the VGA output from the same card running 1920 X 1080, the text is much sharper and  easier to see.

[RTIInstaller]

Is this the card you have? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Video-Card-Nvidia-GeForce-4-MX-32MB-ADC-DVI-Power-Mac-G4-661-2647-630-4099-/331789770875?hash=item4d4036207b:g:IkEAAOSwu4BVtqKa

Yes and it allowed me dualdisplay via one ADC to DVI adapter. But those 64Mb ones should be quicker.

When you say "should be quicker" how would that help in tools, will it speed up anything that happens in tools, or improve the picture quality?

[MacOS Plus]

If you want dual-digital on a stock-standard AGP card for OS 9, these are your options to the best of my knowledge:

- GeForce 4MX 32MB ADC/DVI (OEM Apple)
- Radeon 9000 Pro 64MB ADC/DVI (OEM Apple)
- Radeon 9000 Pro Mac Edition 128MB ADC/DVI (Retail)
- GeForce 4 Ti4600 128 MB ADC/DVI (OEM Apple)

  Power consumption should not be an issue if you are not using an ADC monitor powered directly from the ADC port.  If you do have an ADC monitor it is quite widely advised to get an external DVI-to-ADC converter box with its own dedicated power supply.  You would have to get an ADC-to-DVI adapter also to put first in the chain, but you'll need that no matter what you are doing with these cards and dual monitors.  (I actually own a two-input switch box with DVI inputs and ADC output with dedicated ADC power supply which simplified the chain to the primary monitor and let me connect a second computer at the same desk.)

  This evening I tested a dual-monitor/dual-digital 1920x1080 configuration on the GeForce 4MX 32MB, Radeon 9000 Pro 64MB and GeForce 4 Ti4600 128MB.  (I just got the Ti4600 in a couple days ago from eBay so I was quite interested to see the results of this test.)  One monitor was connected ADC-to-DVI, and the second monitor (an LCD TV) DVI-to-HDMI.  The test-bed computer was an MDD FW800 running Mac OS 9.2.2 with the last known ATI and Nvidia drivers.  On all three cards, both screens came up immediately in their native 1920x1080 modes automatically with all alternate resolution settings available.

  GeForce 4MX 32MB cards should be fairly easy to find on eBay.  If you want to find all the listings properly you will have to use the Apple part numbers in the search, 603-1263 or 630-4023, because many of the sellers don't know the name of these otherwise unmarked OEM cards.

  Radeon 9000 Pro 64MB cards are available on eBay right now for a reasonable amount of money.  (I just recently bought a second one myself.)  If you want to find all the listings properly you will have to use the Apple part numbers in the search, 603-3352 or 630-4845, because many of the sellers don't know the name of these otherwise unmarked OEM cards.

  Radeon 9000 Pro Mac Edition 128MB cards are going to be a rarity in re-sale these days.  At the moment there's a listing on eBay featuring the full package from what probably was one, but inside it has an old Rage128 card.  I warned the seller about that but he never took down or modified the listing.

  There was someone recently selling a bunch of GeForce 4 Ti4600s for $100 US a piece if I remember correctly.  I refused to pay that much but they all sold anyway.  My patience paid off and I later found a listing in my home country of Canada for much less.  They don't come up for sale very often, but so many sellers know the collectable nature of these cards that they eventually get listed here and there.

Additional information regarding GeForce 4MX:

- GeForce 4MX 32MB ADC/DVI (OEM Apple)
- GeForce 4MX 64MB ADC/DVI (OEM Apple)

  In my experience there are two different versions of the GeForce 4MX, only one of which fully supports OS 9.  The first one is 32MB and has pin-based RAM chips - this fully supports OS 9.  The second is 64MB and has ball-grid RAM chips - VGA will get stuck at 640x480, while DVI or ADC will lock to a single higher resolution in OS 9.  To what extent specific ROM revisions might change this, I can't say for sure.

  During my testing of the 64MB variant of the card the digital output did correctly detect and display on the monitor at the maximum/native 1920x1080 mode.  The TV would actually detect correctly but would never display video - I confirmed this by moving the connection over to the monitor after boot.  (Probably related to incorrect HDCP handshake handling.)  The most important discovery though is that oddly this card appears to only have a single digital display driver IC, meaning you can't actually use the two digital outputs simultaneously.  It will show a second screen when adapted to VGA but locked to 640x480 only as mentioned above.  As I recall, the resolutions don't get locked/limited under OS X, so the ROM is not 100% compatible with OS 9.  That said, the deal-breaker is the apparent lack of a second digital driver IC.

[Protools5LEGuy]

  During my testing of the 64MB variant of the card the digital output did correctly detect and display on the monitor at the maximum/native 1920x1080 mode.  The TV would actually detect correctly but would never display video - I confirmed this by moving the connection over to the monitor after boot.  (Probably related to incorrect HDCP handshake handling.)  The most important discovery though is that oddly this card appears to only have a single digital display driver IC, meaning you can't actually use the two digital outputs simultaneously.  It will show a second screen when adapted to VGA but locked to 640x480 only as mentioned above.  As I recall, the resolutions don't get locked/limited under OS X, so the ROM is not 100% compatible with OS 9.  That said, the deal-breaker is the apparent lack of a second digital driver IC.

Most GeForce 4 MX with 64 Mb on eBay are ADC+VGA. Check the auctions I posted. My 4 MX with 32 Mb is ADC+DVI

Are there 2 OEM GeForce 4MX with 64 Mb version?

[RTIInstaller]

Thank you Mac OS for the great right to the point review!!!

I found a dual digital GeForce 4MX 32MB labeled 630 4099 + 630 1754, is there a diff between this card and the one you mentioned marked 630 4023?

Thanks 

Update I went ahead and bought this card http://www.ebay.com/itm/272537104696?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT it was only $7.90 US delivered so i thought what the heck I try it out. If I like it great if not I will move on up 

[Protools5LEGuy]

Well done!

You still need a ADC to DVI solution for dual or keep the ATI pci!

[IIO]

and it is a huge improvement for me over the VGA output from the same card running 1920 X 1080, the text is much sharper and  easier to see.

really.

i sometimes see people discussing over this and i wonder if it not mostly depends on the card, the cables or eventually even the monitor?

i never had the chance for an 1:1 comparison between VGA and DVI-D on a mac - but on a windows PC - and there i couldnt see much difference.

the only hughe difference i remember is when you compare tubes vs flat screens - and my monitors, all of the same model, also look different with different brands of GPUs.

[RTIInstaller]

Well done!

You still need a ADC to DVI solution for dual or keep the ATI pci!

I have a friend digging through his box of ancient junk, he says there is an adc to dvi adapter in there somewhere 

Thanks for your help

[RTIInstaller]

and it is a huge improvement for me over the VGA output from the same card running 1920 X 1080, the text is much sharper and  easier to see.

really.

i sometimes see people discussing over this and i wonder if it not mostly depends on the card, the cables or eventually even the monitor?

i never had the chance for an 1:1 comparison between VGA and DVI-D on a mac - but on a windows PC - and there i couldnt see much difference.

the only hughe difference i remember is when you compare tubes vs flat screens - and my monitors, all of the same model, also look different with different brands of GPUs.

There is a diff for me. My ATI PCI card has both VGA and DVI I have already gone back and forth on the same monitor with both cable types and the text is much sharper for me with DVI. I have two different monitors here to test this with and on both I see a diff. For someone who has aging eyesight it makes a big difference having the text as defined as possible.

[MacOS Plus]

Most GeForce 4 MX with 64 Mb on eBay are ADC+VGA. Check the auctions I posted. My 4 MX with 32 Mb is ADC+DVI

Are there 2 OEM GeForce 4MX with 64 Mb version?

  The card I own is ADC/DVI 64MB.  It is probably a very late model because it came to me in a second-hand MDD FW800 machine.  This would help explain the OS 9 limitations since this machine wasn't meant to run it.  I hadn't actually looked at the ADC/VGA 64MB variant before, but it is supposed to be supported by OS 9 properly.  It would be a moot point to the original poster's requirements though because both 64MB variants won't do dual digital.

Thank you Mac OS for the great right to the point review!!!

I found a dual digital GeForce 4MX 32MB labeled 630 4099 + 630 1754, is there a diff between this card and the one you mentioned marked 630 4023?

Thanks 

Update I went ahead and bought this card http://www.ebay.com/itm/272537104696?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT it was only $7.90 US delivered so i thought what the heck I try it out. If I like it great if not I will move on up 

  You're welcome!  The only information I trust in the Apple world is what I can physically prove right in the comfort of my own home.

  They look to be identical.  Probably just a separate production run.  It may also have shipped with a later ROM version than mine started with.  The current ROM on my card is 1121, which is the final version for this card variant to the best of my knowledge.  I would hazard a guess that it is the 2xxx ROM which doesn't fully support OS 9.  Perhaps someone who owns an ADC/VGA 64MB variant with a 2xxx ROM can confirm this for me for the sake of completing this story.

[RTIInstaller]

Most GeForce 4 MX with 64 Mb on eBay are ADC+VGA. Check the auctions I posted. My 4 MX with 32 Mb is ADC+DVI

Are there 2 OEM GeForce 4MX with 64 Mb version?

  The card I own is ADC/DVI 64MB.  It is probably a very late model because it came to me in a second-hand MDD FW800 machine.  This would help explain the OS 9 limitations since this machine wasn't meant to run it.  I hadn't actually looked at the ADC/VGA 64MB variant before, but it is supposed to be supported by OS 9 properly.  It would be a moot point to the original poster's requirements though because both 64MB variants won't do dual digital.

Thank you Mac OS for the great right to the point review!!!

I found a dual digital GeForce 4MX 32MB labeled 630 4099 + 630 1754, is there a diff between this card and the one you mentioned marked 630 4023?

Thanks 

Update I went ahead and bought this card http://www.ebay.com/itm/272537104696?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT it was only $7.90 US delivered so i thought what the heck I try it out. If I like it great if not I will move on up 

  You're welcome!  The only information I trust in the Apple world is what I can physically prove right in the comfort of my own home.

  They look to be identical.  Probably just a separate production run.  It may also have shipped with a later ROM version than mine started with.  The current ROM on my card is 1121, which is the final version for this card variant to the best of my knowledge.  I would hazard a guess that it is the 2xxx ROM which doesn't fully support OS 9.  Perhaps someone who owns an ADC/VGA 64MB variant with a 2xxx ROM can confirm this for me for the sake of completing this story.

here is the nvidia part number for this card A74  900-10074-0602-000

I guess I will find out what version it is when it shows up in the mail.

Oh by the way I ran into a site that has extensive information on old ATI cards with links to the drivers. Could this be of help for anyone here ? https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#CS

[RTIInstaller]

Most GeForce 4 MX with 64 Mb on eBay are ADC+VGA. Check the auctions I posted. My 4 MX with 32 Mb is ADC+DVI

Are there 2 OEM GeForce 4MX with 64 Mb version?

  The card I own is ADC/DVI 64MB.  It is probably a very late model because it came to me in a second-hand MDD FW800 machine.  This would help explain the OS 9 limitations since this machine wasn't meant to run it.  I hadn't actually looked at the ADC/VGA 64MB variant before, but it is supposed to be supported by OS 9 properly.  It would be a moot point to the original poster's requirements though because both 64MB variants won't do dual digital.

Thank you Mac OS for the great right to the point review!!!

I found a dual digital GeForce 4MX 32MB labeled 630 4099 + 630 1754, is there a diff between this card and the one you mentioned marked 630 4023?

Thanks 

Update I went ahead and bought this card http://www.ebay.com/itm/272537104696?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT it was only $7.90 US delivered so i thought what the heck I try it out. If I like it great if not I will move on up 

  You're welcome!  The only information I trust in the Apple world is what I can physically prove right in the comfort of my own home.

  They look to be identical.  Probably just a separate production run.  It may also have shipped with a later ROM version than mine started with.  The current ROM on my card is 1121, which is the final version for this card variant to the best of my knowledge.  I would hazard a guess that it is the 2xxx ROM which doesn't fully support OS 9.  Perhaps someone who owns an ADC/VGA 64MB variant with a 2xxx ROM can confirm this for me for the sake of completing this story.

here is the nvidia part number for this card A74  900-10074-0602-000

I guess I will find out what version it is when it shows up in the mail.

Oh by the way I ran into a site that has extensive information on old ATI cards with links to the drivers. Could this be of help for anyone here ? https://gona.mactar.hu/ATI_Mac/#CS

Hey this card Works! 

It didn't at first, but that turned out to be a driver issue. Even though I have 9.2.2 installed it was still running the 2.4 Nvidia drivers. I updated it to 3.5.2 and it fired right up using the DVI connection.

HOWEVER! Here is where it gets weird.

I connected my second DVI monitor to the ADC port using the Formac ADC to DVI adapter and for no apparent reason the G4 wont even turn on, no lights nothing. I had to disconnect the ADC adapter and leave the G4 unplugged for 5 minutes and then reconnect power (without the ADC connection) to get it to turn on.

What the heck is that all about?

[RTIInstaller]

So it looks like a common problem where the G4 will not power on when using the ADC connection unless you are using an ADC monitor, I can plug the ADC to DVI adapter into the mac while it is running and it turns off. Seems to be looking for a voltage.

I am reading through the following blog covering the topic, hopefully there is an answer in thee somewhere. http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=2005040811124189