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Author Topic: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.  (Read 22055 times)

MusicWorks

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2016, 02:02:13 PM »

I am just happy all this retrieved information helps others! And the many reformats and trial/error I've done can be spared for others too :) This weekend I will create a new thread and post the complete TDM install dance, with a few things I left out (like proper partition formatting for the Monte Method backup). Maybe some of the administrators can make it a sticky thread in the future if they find the information relevant.

Please tell me where the WGS fountain is in Canada ;) They are quite rare indeed, having two is just obscene! lol You are a lucky man for sure, these are near impossible to find in Europe. I managed to track down one in Australia once, but shipping costs were stratospheric...I remember ringing the guy without considering the time difference. He was quite stunned at having someone on the phone at 5 am asking about the computer :)

 I was unaware of the reversed slot order in the 9150; there seems to be no definitive NuBus slot orders -they are completely different in Quadras. Regarding the PDS cable, I have seen them pop up in eBay but your creative solution seems rather cool too. Will have my eyes open in case I see any, I have never used such cable myself but I know the one you talk about.

My preference for the NewerTech has to do probably with my personal experience in terms of compatibility, but according to the info in the forums it really depends on the computer and setup -some work better with Sonnet, some with the MaxPowr from NewerTech. I had a really hard time finding a Mac with NuBus slots here in Spain...I managed to find a 7100 that had already been upgraded.

Regarding the video card, it is the best option -but please note it cannot be placed in the Expansion Chassis. Any video cards, alongside the FWB JackHammer need to go inside the computer. It would look something like:

- Video Card
- PowerPC EFI card (middle slot)
- JackHammer SCSI card

I have a Picasa video card for my 7100 which I love -but I have no expansion chassis so I end up using motherboard video just to have one more NuBus slot for my AMII.

Man I love the AMII, that sound is THICK! :)

By the way, what kind of music are you into?

- MusicWorks
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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2016, 08:50:26 AM »

  I also have a WGS 6150, not that it's anything special (or different from stock 6100).  For some reason it provides a 'warm and fuzzy feeling' simply from having that badge on the front.  Just about everything I own Mac-wise has come from the US through eBay.  Persistent searching was key, although certainly the supply of computers and parts of this vintage was much better many years ago when I acquired the bulk of it.

  One oddity I have, since we're talking about 9150's, is a Q950 in a 9150 shell.  The difference between the two cases is the original Q950s had silver-colored electroplating for shielding, while the 9150 had gold color and the cut-away for the floppy drive moved down to make way for the DDS tape drive.  As I understand it, Avid wasn't ready to move away from supporting and supplying the Q950-based Media Composer systems, so using their 'leverage' they managed to push Apple to manufacture and ship more Q950s much later on.  These ended up being installed in the gold-lined 9150 shells that were part of the active production of the day, just with a normal Q950 front bezel with the floppy drive in the top.  To make things even more interesting, these systems came stock with a PDS PowerPC upgrade card, which I believe had been standardized to 100MHz in Avid's config.  Media Composer will only run in motherboards they officially allowed, so the possible base configs were limited.  I over-clocked the 8100/110 board in my Avid AMP chassis to 40MHz bus, after which the software refused to recognize the computer as a supported model.

  The silliness of the 9150 reversed slot order began with the Q950 being backwards from everything else for no reason I'm aware of.  It survived in the 9150 because the PowerPC motherboards were offered as drop-in upgrades for existing Q950 systems.  Preserving the odd slot order was the only way to ensure this transition went smoothly with the established card order in the Q950 systems already in use.  It was actually a major pain when I was expanding my Sonic Solutions system because all the boards are linked internally with custom a SCSI cable that only fits properly in one direction.  Creativity was required to get this solved.  Eventually I managed to locate a Sonic Solutions nubus expansion chassis, an extraordinary rarity, and proprietary, which freed the cards from the confines of the 9150 case.

  I'm aware of the limitations of no video cards in the Digi expander.  That said, just about every variant of expansion chassis I've ever tried caused the host system to puke if video was in the expander.  Just about the most useless, non-functional case was that of the Second Wave expanders, both the nubus 4-slot and 8-slot, and the PCI-to-Nubus version.  Just about any cards that would have been useful or high-performance were a no-go.  Perhaps they would have been more at home in an industrial data-acquisition setup.  I sold off all of it to collectors.  Someone lucky-enough to have owned the SE/30 host card for the 4-slot model might have had better luck with creating a working configuration.  My preference for dual video would be one PDS plus one nubus, because two high-performance nubus video cards together is asking for trouble even if they are identical.  (I did manage to get two 1600x1200 PCI cards stable in my 9500, however, and on custom-made mode/wiring adapters to 13W3 cables for SGI monitors at that!)

  As to music, while I appreciate quality in just about any form of tunes, my listening passion is electronic music.  From simple ambient or creative random noise all the way through to the hardest and fastest of beats, I marvel at how a 99-percent-plus synthetic instrument and sample pallet can appeal on such a wide scale to a basic human tribal instinct.  As much as some people don't 'get it', to many others it can induce the heights of emotion.  Sometimes I just like to listen closely to the types of individual sounds that have been created in published music and wonder what chain of processing could make them.  Often a common effect can result in unrecognizable change in a sound if the parameters of the controller are taken far outside the normal bounds.  I also greatly appreciate artists who manage to incorporate all of this with ordinary band instruments successfully, of which Radiohead is probably one of the most well-known examples.  I actually enjoy their creativity and quality more than the actual music itself!

  While I am no expert in music production, I have a strong desire to experiment with creating unique sounds that I can build into arrangements.  One of my family members is much better at musical composition than I am, so I may lean on his strengths to take what I create and assemble them into musical forms I wouldn't be able to visualize myself.  A real bonus of working with electronic sounds and having an open creative direction is that often the 'crudeness' of older equipment actually works in your favor.  The popularity of "chip-tunes" right now is a fine example.  Another would be specific synth flavors from well-known ancient computer and video game consoles being resurrected in established modern music forms.  Even the crudest of early 'drum-like' synth sounds from the Casio VL-Tone VL-1 micro-keyboard that was never intended for serious music-making have ended up in some recent hip hop tracks due to a somewhat cult-like status for the device.  (I happen to own one of these.)
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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2016, 05:38:11 PM »

I found a bit more software in storage today.  There's a set of floppy disks that came in the box with my Audiomedia III card, all for PC:

1 - Wave Driver Disk Version 1.0
1 - Session Software Demo Install 1 Version 2.5 PC
1 - Session Software Demo Install 2 Version 2.5 PC

  I also found a sealed package Session Software for Windows (3.1 or 95), P/N PS002.  Never knew you could run it under Windows 3.1, which would be pretty novel.  It says it requires a Pentium 75MHz minimum, which would be quite painfully slow running Windows 95.  I think I actually have such a machine lying around here - it even has a four-disk CDROM-changer drive.  Might pop-in the Audiomedia just for amusement.
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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2016, 06:35:41 PM »

  Okay, so over the last couple days I've been working through getting my 9150/120 system up and running.  After bashing my head against a wall just trying to get the thing to power up as far as video, the 'voodoo' cleared and the machine is back to normal.  It has a fresh install of OS 8.6 and OMS 2.3.8 awaiting a working Pro Tools.

  Now I've run into a new problem.  The Pro Tools 4.1.1 installer I have supports PCI computers only.  It will completely install and authorize without any warnings but fails to get all the way into the program.  I downloaded an older version of DigiTest (2.3) to see if I could at least get that to work, but it fails with an "unsupported machine" message (possibly because of the other software being wrong).  The ECI card is currently in Slot B since this is a four-slot machine.

  At this point I'm stuck because I don't have an installer for 4.0, nor an authorization disk (unless a 4.1.1 version auth is backwards-compatible).  I don't have the correct disks for version 3.x either, but I would rather stick with 4.x anyway.

  This raises the question - Does a nubus system have to have 4.0 installed first and then it can be updated to 4.1 or 4.2?  Or, do I need to get hold of dedicated nubus variants of these installers?  In any case, there seems to be no download source for any 4.x nubus installer disk(s).  The couple items available on Macintosh Garden don't appear to be of use to me on this particular machine.

  If I can sort out how to make a usable disk image of the 4.1.1 PCI installer I will certainly upload it here so I feel like there's some sort of fair value in trade for any other 4.x version anyone can post.  Authorization disks for 4.0 TDM or 4.2 TDM I don't know how I'll ever find though.

  So close, yet so far.  Very frustrating. >:(
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MusicWorks

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2016, 03:21:58 AM »

How is that primer install coming along? It's been a while since I checked the forums, hence the delay in my post. In the meantime, however, I have tested several different installs and have interesting conclusion I will post below.

Regarding your issue with the Pro Tools 4.1.1 installer, as far as I'm concerned the last version to work with NuBus systems was 4.2. If the installer goes through fine, and even authorizes correctly, I am pretty sure the problem might not be the version you are using...maybe some other incompatibility.

Pro Tools 4.1 was the version that shipped with the d24 and original PCI farms -the .1 revision was probably a general bug correcting on the original 4.1 for d24 users.

Now, Pro Tools 4.2 was made available shortly after, when the *new* PCI Core and DSP farm cards were made available. This allowed the full power of the new farm cards to be used by the software. Although this version is supported with NuBus it really makes no sense when used with PTIII hardware.

General consensus is that PTIII hardware works best with software versions 3.2 (in System 7.5) and version 4.0 (in System 7.5.5 or 8.1)

When running DigiTest it is always recommended to use the version installed by the original installer, which is matched to the DAE/DSI. Failure to do so might result in test errors and/or unreliable tests.

After testing several of my primer installs I have found that:

- The best (more responsive) install is when installed with the OS it was originally tested with: System 7.5.3 or 7.5.5.

- Mac OS 8 has a focus on color (yay!). What this means is that it has considerably more VRAM requirements than System 7, this takes a toll on responsiveness (and on available VRAM). With a good amount of RAM is doable.

- Mac OS 8.6 has almost the same VRAM requirements as Mac OS 9 (!) though in spite of being technically possible to run 4.x you can imagine it is far from usable in reality.

- Mac OS 8.1 with maxed out ram might be the best compromise and is fully compatible.

Basically, the higher you go the more a "hog" the OS becomes to the system. With Pro Tools all tasks are calculated by the cards/Disk IO, but you want a light system so that responsiveness is were it should.


System 7 runs smoooooooth.

Btw, send me a PM when you read this.
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macStuff

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2017, 11:09:16 AM »

i have a friend who has the unique ability to duplicate floppy authorizers that are otherwise unable to be duplicated (using a rare vintage hardware solution)

if anyone has any rare authorizations they need to create new working usable copies of you can message me and we can make arrangements.
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DieHard

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2017, 08:08:48 AM »

i have a friend who has the unique ability to duplicate floppy authorizers that are otherwise unable to be duplicated (using a rare vintage hardware solution)

if anyone has any rare authorizations they need to create new working usable copies of you can message me and we can make arrangements.

Yes, we have discussed this... a "Central Point Copy II PC Deluxe" board that connects in between a Floppy drive and it's controller will do the trick :)

... If you can track one down

Here is some old info we discussed:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2680.msg16412.html#msg16412
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macStuff

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2017, 01:29:33 PM »

i dont think my friend has that particular solution
i think he is using a different system based on a different os/hardware
i think he is an apple II guy

but i just found this manual for sale on ebay: (without the hardware?)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computer-Manual-Copy-Max-II-Central-Point-Software/191934830529?hash=item2cb03517c1:g:p9IAAOSwTZ1XnQ~K

so in addition to the Copy II PC, it seems there must have been a "copy II mac" version of this product aswell.. from the manual cover it says:
COPY II PLUS (for apple II series),
COPY II MAC (for Apple Macintosh),
COPY II 64 (for commodore 64/128 series),
COPY II PC (for IBM/PC compatibles),
COPY II ST (for atari ST)

« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 01:42:20 PM by macStuff »
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garnopal

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2018, 07:31:14 AM »

Thus, the only cards this interface is supported with is SA4 (original 442 card), SA8 (bridge card in PTIII) and the Amadeus PCI card.

Hi, Musicworks (if you read this),

Back in the mid 90's, I used to work with a Digidesign 442 v.1 interface. I still miss its great converters, as I miss my rock-solid Quadra 650 and smooth OS 7.5.3... But are you sure that the PT III bridge I/O card could recognize the 442 ? I thought that in an expanded PTIII system, the 442 was only supported by its original SA4 card + TDM piggyback...

Also, i notice that in your nubus PT collection, your only interface is the 442. How can you get the entire system working if you do not have a 888 or 882 interface connected to the Disk I/O ?

Regards.
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smilesdavis

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2022, 09:49:53 PM »

can you provide a pack with every floppy needed to set up a pt 3 tdm nubus. greazeweasle?
i think the forum should do donations to people who provide flux images of their rare floppies so they can buy the grezeweasle
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smilesdavis

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2022, 10:26:10 AM »

wait what the pro tools nubus extension rack plugs into a pci extension card?
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rvense

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2022, 02:12:02 PM »

I've seen an ad for such a thing, but I don't think they were common. I have a nubus-nubus expansion, those aren't that rare.
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smilesdavis

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2022, 06:11:07 PM »

I've seen an ad for such a thing, but I don't think they were common. I have a nubus-nubus expansion, those aren't that rare.

got a link, i just bought two 8100s because i got the powerpc host card only, a digidesign nubus extension chassis to PCI card not by digidesign, which was a oem version of 2nd/second wave out of nashville would indeed be a finding
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Pink Flamingo

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2023, 07:01:16 AM »

Hi everyone! I'm currently creating a project involving a complete Pro Tools TDM system (4.2) with an 888 I/O 24, d24 and Farm cards + Power Macintosh G3 Minitower running OS 8.5.
Since it looks virtually impossible to buy the original software, I downloaded Pro Tools 4.2 from the Garden but it lacks the floppy authorizer. Would maybe a kind soul help me to find an authorizer image from this floppy or maybe sell me one if needed?

Thanks in advance,

David.
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smilesdavis

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2023, 07:25:51 AM »

The line for those is from here back to 1996

That being said it isnt impossible im about to acquire 2 pro tools 4.3 boxes. As soon as ive transferred the licenses back to the authorizer floppies its greasewease time. Lots of logistics before that happens. Ill keep ya posted.

Getting the 8100 g3 running pro tools 5.01 with dae/dsi care package has priority. The modified dae/dsi must be floating around in cyberspace im sure of it. And if not maybe its easy to resedit it or maybe someone can do it. I want to run os 9 with that rig. Lets pray its possible.

Why not use pro tools 5.01 its a iso and a serial. Well at least i hope so, just found this floppy which makes me unsure. ive read conflicting reports.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2023, 11:40:28 AM by smilesdavis »
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Pink Flamingo

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2023, 09:40:27 AM »

Hi there!

Looking for some help here. I'm currently looking for a PCI expansion chassis for a Pro Tools 24 system (pre MIX era) including a Power Macintosh G3 Minitower 300 (which only offers 3 PCI slots) a d24 card, 3 farm cards and a Samplecell II card. I was recently offered a Digidesign MAGMA PCI-7 PXB which was being used to run a Pro Tools 24 MIX system (at least I was told so) so I'd like to know if it would work in my setup without problem. I checked a digicompat file but didn't find any info about this one on the Pro Tools 24 section (but it doesn't also appears on the PT24 MIX section and apparently works in that environment).

What do you guys think? Thank you all in advance.
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Pink Flamingo

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2023, 04:25:05 PM »

_
« Last Edit: July 04, 2023, 08:28:31 AM by Pink Flamingo »
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smilesdavis

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2023, 01:00:08 PM »

Thats super cool just got my first d24 card from 1998 (1997 are earliest)
With botches nicenice

Love it

Ive read it works in g4s —even osx—  the d24 so why bother with g3s?

http://archive.digidesign.com/compato/os9/pt24/

Quote
Supported CPU Models, Speeds & Requirements*

Power Macintosh G4 (AGP graphics)
Power Macintosh G4 (PCI graphics)
Power Macintosh Blue & White G3
Power Macintosh Beige G3
Power Macintosh 9500 or 9600
Additional Computer Requirements

System Software: Mac OS v9.0.4, 9.1, 9.2, 9.2.1, or 9.2.2 (depending on CPU model)

Total System RAM:

Minimum 256 MB
Pro Tools application "Preferred" memory allocation set to 70 MB
DAE "Preferred" memory allocation set to 60 MB
Virtual memory is not supported
High edit density, extensive use of plug-ins, and addition of options like MachineControl, DigiTranslator, and AVoption|XL will require additional RAM
Monitor, color required, minimum resolution of 1024 x 768

Opcode OMS v2.3.8 or higher (supplied)

Apple QuickTime v4.1.2 or higher (QuickTime 4.1.2 is supplied on your Pro Tools CD. QuickTime 5.0.2 is also supported)

ATTO ExpressPro-Tools v2.3.2 or higher (supplied)

Hard Drive Minimum Requirements

SCSI HBA Card Required

Maximum Performance Guidelines

*Note: Pro Tools|24 systems require at least two PCI slot. Apple computers that do not contain PCI slots, such as the G4 Cube and iMac, are not supported with this system.

Originally Pro Tools 24 started with Pro Tools 4.1
The white boxes i have 2 here in my collection
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