Author Topic: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.  (Read 17621 times)

Offline MacOS Plus

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Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« on: January 12, 2016, 04:06:29 PM »
  Years ago I amassed a large amount of pre Mix-era Pro Tools hardware.  Attempting to build a complete, working system never panned out at the time for various reasons of mismatched software and other conflicts, so the project went dormant.  I finally decided to pull it all out of storage and make a serious push to get at least one functional system assembled.  I may try to acquire additional parts and software if necessary.  I'm hoping you guys can offer some advice on what I should build with the hardware I have, and can recommend the highest software and support file versions to use.  I didn't see any version 3.x or 4.x downloads on this forum so perhaps you can also suggest where I can download anything I'm missing and what I have to consider with authorizations or cracks.  (Perhaps some kind soul will upload some of this older stuff.)  I will happily make separate version 3.x, 4.x and 5.x systems if it best suits the groups of hardware I have.  To give you a sense of what I'm working with I've compiled an inventory of what I've got right now:

Interface boxes:
2 - 882 with power supply
1 - 882 without power supply
1 - 888
1 - 888 with dual connectors and 4/8-channel mode switch
1 - Video Slave Driver
1 - Universal Slave Driver
1 - ADAT I/O
1 - 442

PCI cards and cables: (PCI Matchmaker chip revisions noted in brackets)
1 - Disk I/O (Rev.Q)
1 - DSP Farm (Rev.QC) - Red PCB
1 - Samplecell II with TDM (Rev.QE)
1 - Samplecell II with TDM (Rev.Q) - Red PCBs
1 - spare SampleCell II TDM daughter board
1 - 8-node TDM cable
1 - Disk I/O SCSI cable
1 - Interface cable
1 - Audiomedia III (Rev.Q)

Nubus cards and cables:
4 - Disk I/O with TDM
8 - DSP Farm with TDM
2 - SampleCell (no TDM)
2 - 5-node TDM cable with terminator
1 - Avid-branded expansion chassis
1 - 68K ECI host card for expansion chassis
2 - PTIII audio card (no TDM)

Software CDs:
2 - Protools Installer version 4.1 PPC
1 - SampleCell II TDM Plug-in Installer for Mac OS and Windows NT
2 - SampleCell II FX-ROM CD-ROM Library #1
1 - SampleCell II CD-ROM Library #2

Software Floppies:
1 - Authorization Disk for Protools version 4.1.1
1 - Authorization Disk for Protools & TDM Software version 4.1.1
1 - Protools with DAE PowerMix Install 1 version 3.22
1 - Protools with DAE PowerMix Install 2 version 3.22
1 - Protools with DAE PowerMix Install 3 version 3.22
1 - Protools Demo Install 1 version 3.21
1 - Protools Demo Install 2 version 3.21
1 - Utility Disk version 3.1
1 - Utilities Disk version 3.1
1 - DAE Installer version 3.01 for PCI only
1 - OMF Tool version 1.1
1 - Sound Designer II Install 1 version 2.8.3
1 - Sound Designer II Install 2 version 2.8.3

Steinberg Plug-ins Floppies:
1 - TimeGuard TDM version 1.0
1 - Spectralizer TDM version 1.1
1 - Tune-a TDM version 1.0
1 - DeClicker TDM version 1.10

--END--

  There are enough parts of each generation to make a PT3 nubus, a PT4 nubus and a PT4 or 5 PCI system.  I have a large number of potential host computers at my disposal also.  (I know about the issue with the PCI Matchmaker chip revision potentially capping the PCI host at a Beige G3 and I will address this in another thread later.)  At minimum I would most likely be working with a Quadra 950 for the PT3, a WGS 9150 with G3/4 upgrade for the PT4, and 9500 with G3 upgrade in Marathon rack case for the PCI hardware.  I also have various SCSI cards available for any system requiring it.

In order to make best use of the hardware I have, I'd also be wanting to locate the following items:
- nubus 12-node TDM cable
- PowerPC ECI nubus host card
- nubus Samplecell TDM daughter board x2
- additional interface cable for PCI card
- 882 power supply
- two additional TDM daughter boards for the PT3 nubus cards.

  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Also, if the floppy disks I have are still functional and can be turned into valid image files I would be happy to try and upload them if anyone wants them.

Offline mrhappy

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2016, 08:11:09 PM »
WOW... that's quite a pile of stuff you've got there!!! ;D ;D

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2016, 08:44:55 PM »
WOW... that's quite a pile of stuff you've got there!!! ;D ;D

  Sure, although it doesn't amount to much more than a "pile" when it isn't assembled and running! ;)  BTW, thanks for your reply to my post in the intro thread.  I would have originally sought out Mix-generation hardware when I started buying all this stuff but it was still too royally expensive on the used market at the time.  I figure what I've got is plenty good-enough anyway at this point in history.  I originally trained on the Pro Tools 4.x software when it was new, so it won't take much to get me up to speed once I finally get over the installation hurdles.  With the variety of hardware I have at my disposal I must be able to get at least one version of the system up and running!

Offline mrhappy

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2016, 06:18:00 AM »
With the variety of hardware I have at my disposal I must be able to get at least one version of the system up and running!

I'd say you'll have MULTIPLE systems up and running before too long!! ;D ;D

Offline mrhappy

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2016, 06:35:11 AM »
I'm mainly using a PT5.1.3/G4 with a TDM/mix rig with 7 cards in a chassis... also a Digi001/G4. Have a few more systems 'on deck' to try some other stuff out.

If you wanna run OS 9.2.2 and throw Cubase into the party, there's a AWESOME download that DieHard and MacTron put together that takes about 90 seconds to install a fresh 9.2.2/Cubase/plugs/VI's/and a whole bunch of other stuff... It's CRAZY cool!! ;D ;D

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2716.0

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2016, 09:27:24 AM »
That would be worth a look.  I might try that with my MOTU system also.

  One thing I'm not fully-versed in is the authorization methods required by each PT generation.  I'm not familiar with how it works under 3.x or 5.x because I've only poked heavily into 4.x.  I'd certainly prefer to avoid dealing with real individual authorizations if possible because I already lost one instance of my 4.1.1 auth due to a random system freeze and subsequent unrecoverable boot drive corruption.  How is it handled under each version, and what, if any, verified functional cracks are available?  If I do use a real auth instance from my 4.1.1 disk, is it then good for 4.2 and 4.3 also?  Are the other generations the same for having to separately authorize TDM function on top of the base application auth?  Do I have to worry about updaters overwriting an auth instance?  Can I update as far as possible before installing the auth for the first time?

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2016, 02:21:47 PM »
Since it's too late to edit my initial post, I'll add another disk I found to the list:

(under "Software Floppies:")
1 - Authorization Backup Disk For Pro Tools Software Versions 4.0, 4.1, 4.1.1

If a forum admin sees this post perhaps they could be so kind as to insert that text into my initial post for me? ;)

I also realized that the line "2 - PTIII audio card (no TDM)" should have read "2 - SA4 ..."  They actually came with some Avid surplus.  I'd love, just for fun, to be able to assemble a Media Composer nubus system from the parts I have but I don't think I'd ever be able to get the software authorized.  (It was by system-coded dongle, I think.)  I have an AMP machine I toyed with for a while just to see what other than MC would be practical in it.  The built-in slot expander is bizarre.  Somehow they figured out that assigning the slot IDs out of order was pretty much the only way to make the system functional with it.  I tried wiring-in switches in order to change the slot IDs to whatever I wanted, but this only resulted in mysterious freezes and bus errors.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 08:10:43 PM by MacOS Plus »

Offline MusicWorks

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2016, 03:27:45 PM »
This is my current PT collection:

Cards:
x2 - Audiomedia II NuBus
x2 - SA4 Pro Tool card NuBus
x1 - Disk I/O NuBus
x4 - DSP Farm NuBus
x1 - Bridge I/O NuBus

Interfaces:
x1 - Digidesign Quad-Audio (original black with white logo Pro Tools interface, love this converters!)

Manuals:

- Pro Tools 1.1 Users Guide Addendum
- Pro Tools 2.0 Users Guide
- Pro Tools 2.0 Hardware Installation
- Pro Tools 2.5 Users Guide
- Pro Tools 2.5 Hardware Installation
- Pro Tools 3.1 Users Guide Addendum
- Pro Tools 4.0 Manuals and docs

Floppies:

- Pro Tools 1.1 complete set
- Pro Tools 2.0
- Pro Tools 3.1
- Pro Tools 3.2
- Pro Tools 4.0.1 authorizer disk
- Pro Tools 3.2.1 Demo install
- DAE 3.01
- PT Utilities 3.1
- Digidesign Sound Drivers 1.4.1
- Pro Tools 4.3 authorizer disk
- Sound Designer 2.8.3 complete (no auths lefts, lost the last one)
- Sound Designer 2.8 complete (don't know auth count yet, got it last week)
- DIN-R 1.1 complete (install and backup install, with auths)

CDs

- Pro Tools 3.4 FREE
- Pro Tools 4.0.1 TDM
- Pro Tools 5.0.1 TDM
- Pro Tools 5.1.3 TDM

Misc

- 5-way TDM ribbon NuBus
- 12-way TDM ribbon NuBus
- Digidesign TDM terminator
- Disk IO external cable (Avid)
- Original cables and boxes for the DSP farm cards
- Avid LVD 4th generation media drives

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2016, 06:20:18 PM »
  Another minor update to my hardware list - today I was digging around in storage looking for something completely unrelated, when I finally located the missing power supply for my third 882 box.  More exciting though is I also finally managed to purchase a PowerPC ECI card off eBay today.  This should be the kick-in-the-pants I need to get moving again on building my monster-size nubus PT system.  I really wasn't looking forward to having to install on a Q950.  I have quite a few PowerPC nubus computers at my disposal I'd much rather use.  Now I just have to find a full-length TDM ribbon cable.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2016, 08:36:44 AM »
Wow... now some of that stuff brings back memories... I have not seen a working NuBus PT system in over 18 years; so this is awesome and very interesting.  I am not sure how many members here have working NuBus Systems, but I know we have a few resident experts...

This is a great reference to NuBus systems running Pro Tools Free..
http://www.oakbog.com/PT3NuBus.html

And this guy is a member, Adam Rosen, you can PM him (his member name is Oakbog).

I am curious how many members are still using old NuBus cards and what results they are having with  projects over 8 tracks.  I rember the few systems I setup back in the day with the with 442 I/O audio interface were limited to 4 tracks, but I think is was system depended, maybe some could do 16, but I can't remember the specifics.

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2016, 08:58:10 PM »
  I'll leave it to MusicWorks to comment on the 442-based systems because he was actually still using one.  The only reason I had any of that generation of hardware was that it came along with a couple surplus Avid Media Composer systems I bought just for the host machines.  I actually really would have liked to get one running just for the hell of it, but unfortunately I have no dongles (and which I also believe were supposed to be tied to the specific serial numbers of the Avid boards, correct me if I'm wrong).  I even have the entire set of manuals for MC 6.5.1 but I honestly don't know what to do with it all at this point.

  I've never seen an example of a 442-based system actually using TDM.  It would be really neat if someone could post such an image.

  The Nubus PTIII hardware I have is certainly capable of making a huge and powerful system, given a solid foundation host computer is in place.  The one time I ever got one going that I remember, engaging a few TDM plugins lead to a dead-lock of sorts where the DSPs wouldn't properly free-up even when disengaging the plugins.  After a number of DAE crashes and a blown boot partition that trashed one of my authorizations, I set the project aside until I could get a much better all-round setup thoroughly tested.  Once I receive the PPC ECI card that is currently in the mail I should have no problem assembling a far better setup than the Q950 prior allowed.  The current target computer for this assignment is a 9150/80 with G3 upgrade (Sonnet or Newertech), PDS and/or nubus video upgrades with dual monitors, and an FWB Jackhammer or ATTO Silicon Express IV SCSI card for boot-bus acceleration.  (My 9150/120 is indefinitely occupied hosting my monster 10-board Sonic Solutions DAW (six USP, three Medianet, plus proprietary expansion chassis bridge board), and also is home to my Sonnet G4/360MHz upgrade.  I actually used this machine for TV Post work for a year with only one USP originally, after which I grossly expanded it as I acquired more second-hand hardware.)

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2016, 09:34:36 PM »
  In case anyone is interested, someone has listed a PTIII nubus Disk I/O card on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digidesign-Disk-I-O-TDM-NUBUS-Card-Pro-Tools-III-Vintage-/262283918517?hash=item3d1156fcb5:g:PpUAAOSwezVWupSm

  Seeing as I have four already I really don't need another one.  (What I don't have is any Bridge I/O cards.)  There's another listing with two Farm cards plus a 12-node TDM ribbon cable.  I have more than enough Farm cards already, so even though I seriously want the cable I can't justify the cost of the bundle just to get the cable.  (Especially with the low Canadian Dollar right now. >:()

Offline MusicWorks

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2016, 12:59:21 PM »
Hi,

Finally I have some time on my hands to write you MacOS Plus, I've been wanting to reply for days  :)

I've been setting up a primer Pro Tools 4 TDM install and have some interesting findings I will summarize below.

Regarding the 442 interface, also referred to as "Quad Audio Interface": it is effectively the first multi-channel computer interface in history. Used in all Pro Tools I and II systems, the core package consisted of a 442 box, one SA-4 card and cable with software. It featured 16-bit AD and 18-bit DA and some impressive specs too.

I still use this as my main AD with external clock, given I rarely work in 24-bit these days so the Apogee remains unused (used only as clock source). It has an excellent sound and is perfectly useable.

I paid 10 british pounds for mine, came from a studio in London.

In 1993-1994, the TDM Piggyback daughter cards were released. These were strapped onto the SA-4 cards -thus enabling TDM in the system. Pro Tools 2.5 was the first version to offer TDM plugin arquitecture.

To expand a 442 system you needed one card and 442 interface for every four channels (up to 16-tracks) and a SysAxe card to use as a SCSI accelerator. Not an easy find I can tell you :)

Some sources estimate the number of 442 units sold at several billion, which is probably true -the main problem being cards. Not many SA-4 were saved from the rubble, so cards are scarce -not to mention SysAxe cards. The latter were incompatible with PowerPC processors, so one would need an older Quadra in order to expand a 442 system. On a 6100/7100/8100 it is officially supported, but is not expandable.

Given the long production run of the 442, many revisions exist. The first ones have no PT logo, and just black and white Digidesign lettering on the front panel -these were sold with the original ProEDIT and ProDECK package (Pro Tools 1.0-1.1). With Pro Tools 2.0 -and the departure of OSC- came new logo and these revision have a classic PT logo on the front panel and are labelled "Pro Tools Audio Interface".

The latest revisions are the 442s, available in black and white rack casing. Notice the Digidesign label is no where to be found. The white 442s were part of the Avid Meridien systems, and are indeed identical to the rest (in the same way a white Avid 888 is identical to a black face 888).

All feature switching high-quality PSU that is compatible worldwide.

I am not aware of any significant modifications in any revision, however there is a reason why some use the Digidesign label and some do not. In my opinion, the first revs are the ones to look for.

One of the identifying traits of the 442s is that mixing is done in the box, and *not* in the card. This was changed with Pro Tools III, and that is why a DSP farm is required just for mixing in PTIII.

I know some people who still mix on these ;)

Most of the CDs edited in 1991-1995 were done on this systems and countless filmtracks. The ones that pop up in eBay are mostly pulls from working environments -so they are definitively still in use in post production studios.

I really like mine, is so inconspicuous. It has absolutely no sex appeal at all, and yet it sounds so full and rich. These were calibrated at -22db, -18db and -16db. It has plenty of gain, and individual amplification stages for each output/input.

In spite of not being officially supported with PTIII (cards were 8 io instead of 4io, so it had to be dropped) it does indeed work with the elusive NuBus Bridge card (SA-8) up to Pro Tools 4.01

Thus, the only cards this interface is supported with is SA4 (original 442 card), SA8 (bridge card in PTIII) and the Amadeus PCI card.

Forget about the Amadeus PCI compat, this was just for selected Avid systems and does not work with the PT software at all.

I think that is all I know about the 442s, really hope not many more end up in the trash. This AD sounds great, damn!

I will post my findings regarding the perfect install just below in a different thread.

- MusicWorks

Offline MusicWorks

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2016, 01:14:21 PM »
Tips for a perfect Pro Tools TDM install:

- Update HD drivers with Drive Setup 1.5

- Format HD (low-level, zero all data) in Drive Setup 1.5

- Boot from the CD/floppy Mac OS 8 install media.

- Install Mac OS 8

- Boot from Disk Tools PPC with Apple CD Extension 5.3.1

- Update to Mac OS 8.1

- Update HD drivers with Drive Setup 1.5 (they were replaced with older drivers during the OS installation, so this step must be repeated upon completing the Mac OS 8.1 update)

- Boot normally for the first time / Mac Setup Assistant

_____________________________


- Go to Control Panels / Appletalk and make appletalk inactive.

- Go to Control Panels / Memory and turn OFF virtual memory. Set Disk Cache to 256K.

- Go to File Sharing and make sure it's turned off

- Go to Extensions Manager and duplicate the set.

_________________________________________________


- Install Stuffit Deluxe 5.0 / Update to 5.1

- Install Adaptec Toast 3.5.6

- Install Hard Disk Toolkit 2.0 / Update to 2.0.6

- Install Norton Utilities 3.5.3

* Restart with Extensions Off before installing each piece of software above.

_________________________________________


- Install Pro Tools 4.0 and TDM software/auth

- Install Sound Designer 2.8 software / Update to 2.82

- Install Masterlist CD / auth

- Boot in external drive 7.5.5 to authorize Sound Designer from original floppy

- Install Waves 2.2 and TDM waveshell

- Install TDM plugins and presets

- Install SDII plugins.

_____________________________________

- Install any additional software, careful with the DAE and Digidesign Init.

_____________________________________


- Create a Norton Speedisk boot floppy

- Boot from the floppy and optimize HD

- Backup with the MONTE METHOD to A bootable CD.


From my personal experience, installations from floppy have better data integrity and are more solid. The OS 8 floppies are available at the garden.

Do *NOT* use Drive Setup 1.7.3 -doesn't matter if many Mac sites recommend it. The proper version to use for Nubus is 1.5.

And thats a perfect TDM install!

Best,


- MusicWorks

Offline mrhappy

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2016, 06:36:28 AM »
Thanks for the detailed primer/tips MusicWorks! ;D ;D

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2016, 07:56:16 AM »
  This is exactly the kind of information and level of point-form detail I was hoping for.  Perhaps there can eventually be a dedicated thread stickied.  Just curious what the base machine was you tested this procedure on.  I'm trying to sort out what would be optimal for my 9150/80 with a G3/300MHz upgrade from either Sonnet or Newertech.  Ideally I would prefer to be working with OS 8.6 if it doesn't present any issues because then I can standardize across a number of my systems.

  Also, great info about the 442 generation hardware.  I find the early years of the professional DAW industry very interesting.  Now I see the reasons for the similar technical choices made during the period in the competing Sonic Solutions products - beginning with 4-channel cards with the SSP and then moving to a similarly more-flexible generation with the 8/16-channel USP cards.  It would have been quite something to see a 5-card, 16-channel Pro Tools in its day!  I've essentially crammed the equivalent Sonic SSP set into my IIfx.

  What sort of system configuration was allowed with the SA8/442 combo under 4.01?  Was it supposed to be a secondary device with an 88x present as a master on a Disk I/O, or was this a last-gasp standalone kinda thing?  I'm really surprised it was supported in version 4 at all.  There must have been a lot of carry-over of code from 3.x to 4.x which made it easier to leave the support in rather than purposely writing it out.  In a deja vu twist, the same thing happened again with the PTIII PCI hardware making it into version 5.01 but no-further.

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2016, 08:49:21 AM »
  I just noticed something about my nubus Farm cards I hadn't caught before.  There are actually two revisions in my set of eight, split evenly four and four.  The first four are labelled "DSP FARM" and the remaining four "DSP FARM (56002)".  The first ones are built around the 56001 27MHz DSP chips, while the second set features 56002 40MHz chips.  I'd never heard any mention of this before and I'm wondering if there are any implications for system building and operation.  Can these variants co-exist in the same system without asking for trouble?  Do the later cards actually provide a nearly 50-percent increase in DSP performance and/or capacity?  I'd prefer to have some idea before I create unpredictable issues when I assemble a nubus system for the first time.

Offline MusicWorks

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2016, 10:37:46 AM »
Quote
Thanks for the detailed primer/tips MusicWorks! ;D ;D

You are welcome mrhappy :)

Quote
What sort of system configuration was allowed with the SA8/442 combo under 4.01?  Was it supposed to be a secondary device with an 88x present as a master on a Disk I/O, or was this a last-gasp standalone kinda thing?

The Bridge IO allows extra inputs and outputs to be added to the system, but take into account a 88x interface needs to be present at all time on the Disk I/O connector. The SA8 will effectively "bridge" those new inputs and outputs to/from the Disk I/O -through the internal TDM cabling. Thus, unlike the addition of a second Disk I/O, it does not require it's own hard drive. Because of this, a total of 8 inputs will be capable of recording *simultaneously* in spite of having a total of 12 inputs (8 from the 88x, and 4 from the 442).

In this configuration you would have:

- Disk I/O NuBus card in the lowest slot = connected to 88x interface
- DSP TDM Farm NuBus card in the middle slot
- SA8 Bridge card in the highest slot = connected to 442 interface

All of them properly connected with a TDM ribbon and terminated. I can post scans of the PT4 manual if anyone is interested in the "Hardware Setup" chapter. Please note PT4 was a software only upgrade, so any PT4 system is effectively a PT3 system with newer software :)

I was quite surprised myself to find such information on the forums, as I had avoided upgrading to PT4 because I needed to drop my 442s from the system -and was not so happy about that idea at all. As I said I really like it's AD, and I am usually very picky with AD's.

Newer converters sound so sterile and not musical at all...and most of the older converters give a much cleaner sampling with an external clock (I love my Mini-Me). After tracking a SA-8 card, I decided to go through the upgrade knowing I could still use my 442 as main inputs for the system.

Answering your question about the system this was installed in, it is a 7100/80 with a 240Mhz NewerTech G3 upgrade. This guide would be essentially identical for your 9150/80 (A WGS Workgroup Station? You are a lucky man, you know that!? ;)) And I would choose NewerTech over Sonnet too.

About the Mac OS version and the 8.1 / 8.6 dilemma. And of Macintosh OS development in general. Everyone in these forums need to understand that OS9 is simply the last revision of a very old operating system that started out as System 6. After that, System 7 was the consolidated version that was developed for almost a decade from the 7.0 "Golden Master" to the 7.6.1 -last revision of System 7.

At about that time, Apple was doing the I+D on "Copland", which they intended to be their new operating system. Mac OS 8.5 was a major rewrite on the OS core, which included many of the technologic advances they wanted to include in Copland. The filesystem had an extension rewrite (Mac OS Extended) that was included in 8.1, last version compatible with old rom 68k and first one to use the Mac OS Extended filesystem intended to optimize the available space for larger drives. Major file corruption problems arose with 8.5, and were "patched" in 8.5.1.

Pro Tools 4.0 was officially *tested* with 7.5.3 and 7.5.5 and was officially *supported* in 8.0, 8.1 and 8.5.1.

8.6 is very likely to work, however there are a few things to take into consideration:

On a hardware level, 68k Motorola processors were deprecated and replaced by the newer PowerPC 603 processors, and most of the older 68k kernels were ported to PPC in OS8 / 8.1. You need to understand that given CPU technology and it's implementation was changing so rapidly, most -if not all- of the code of System 7 is written for 68k. Mac OS 8 is essentially the same operating system, with kernel and finder ported to PPC.

That is why 99,99% of software designed and tested for System 7 is fully compatible with 8.0 and 8.1. It's also interesting to note 8.1 is the *last* version to run on 68k macs. Why is so? Because the main task processors were finally ported to PPC in 8.5. If you try to run 8.5 in a 68k computer you will get the sad mac face.

In a way, operating systems needed to be "hybrid" to work both in 68k and PPC computers. In System 7 with the use of a PowerPC Enabler (that is, essentially an "emulator" to run 68k code in a PPC core) and in Mac OS 8 with native PPC code.

Pro Tools 4.0 was optimized for PPC processors, and was officially tested in 7.5.3 and 7.5.5. When the native PPC kernels were released with OS8 people realized that PT4 was running better than ever. Finally a PPC optimized Pro Tools in a PPC compliant operating system. Waveform redraws were barely perceptible :)

Having said this, PT4 runs very happily in OS 8.1 and from what I have read many many films were cut in such systems (7100 or 8100, with PT4 and 8.1).

There is an analogy of the "hybrid" operating systems and the more recent transition from PPC to Intel processors. 10.5 "Leopard" is a classic example of a Macintosh "hybrid" system that runs beautifully both in modest PPC computers as well as in Intel 8-core or 12-core Mac Pro machines. 10.6 "Snow Leopard" was effectively an Intel only version of Leopard with stripped PPC code -all kernels ported for the new Intel multicore machines.

In many ways, 10.5 Leopard is superior than 10.6 Snow Leopard. Not to mention the newer iPhone like revision of the OS, which are simply ridiculous from a Pro user perspective. Most workstation in film postproduction today still on 10.5 Leopard, rarely some on 10.6. It's solid.

If you want to install 8.6, makes sense if you want to use several machines with same OS, I would install 8.5 first. Then update to 8.5.1 -and then update to 8.6. It's been mentioned several times in the forums that some users going directly from 8.5 to 8.6 were having problems. Either that or a clean install of 8.6. Please note this version was never supported for PT4.0.

I have used 8.6 extensively in the past, and it's a solid OS. It should work.

My god...I get so technical at times I almost forget I am in this for the music!!!!!! :) Experience and logic helped me figure most of this out. I find it funny when people talk about OS9 as a separate entity, when it is quite simply System 7 on steroids.

- MusicWorks

Offline MusicWorks

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2016, 11:00:06 AM »
P.S: "PPC Optimized" apps are what is normally called a "FAT" application. That is, it includes both the 68k and PPC versions in one package. "PPC Only" versions of an app, you guessed it, does not include the 68k code.

A "FAT" application can be stripped of 68k, so that a less heavy PPC Only version exists in your hard drive. Some software packages included both versions separately, like Deck 2.6 for example.

Pro Tools 4.0 is a native PPC application, way ahead of it's time really, but can be run in 68k too (it is FAT)

P.S 2: IF you have heard about "Rosetta" in Snow Leopard -it is essentially an "Intel Enabler", that allows PowerPC emulation in Intel processors. Without these translation-emulation packages (PowerPC enabler, Rossetta...) and hybrid operating systems, one would have to throw out and renew the Mac every other day to upgrade the OS revision.

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2016, 11:21:03 AM »
  I love hearing all these kinds of details.  It's the kind of stuff that too easily gets lost to history.  Some of it I know pretty well, but a few things you mentioned I hadn't heard before.

  I'm glad you mentioned film systems because that was my professional audio background for a while.  As I mentioned prior, the 9150/120 in my collection (twice lucky? ;)) I originally bought and assembled myself in order to greatly increase my work efficiency in the film post facility I worked in.  The company was absorbed by another group who wanted to take the operation in a Windows-oriented direction and weren't interested in investing in the existing, aging Mac equipment.  Along with a Sonnet G4/360 and an FWB Jackhammer SCSI card and wide drive for boot (Sonic Solutions systems provided their own proprietary SCSI chains for sound drives) it was a solid and stable platform playing back 32-channel projects.  It ran OS 8.6, which was the cap for Sonic's proprietary networking support, along with a back-up OS 9.1 boot for servicing the main drive if necessary.

  The preference of Sonnet in the 9150 (aside from it being faster and a G4) comes from the fact that the slots are in physically-reversed order from the 7100/8100.  This caused issues with the short PDS video cable on the Newertech.  My solution was to make a mounting bracket to hang the PDS video card sideways above the other cards and take advantage of the Sonnet cable's slack to reach it.  The video was then extended via a home-made cable to the new external port attached to a back plate removed from another PDS card I didn't need, and then mounted in place of the blank behind the Sonnet processor.  One of the tech shop guys there was quite captivated by the novel arrangement!

  The other problem I have is that my Newertech G3/300Mhz's are lacking the detachable PDS video cable assembly.  I have two cards without it and have been looking for the cables forever.  The older, slower ones have the cable soldered on, so I can't transfer them over.  I will go with the Newertech in the 9150/80 if I have to, so long as the system plays nice with nubus video.  I would like to have dual monitors in this setup, and while slots won't be at a premium with the expansion chassis involved, high performance nubus video cards have often caused a number of bus issues and power over-consumption.

Offline MusicWorks

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2016, 02:02:13 PM »
I am just happy all this retrieved information helps others! And the many reformats and trial/error I've done can be spared for others too :) This weekend I will create a new thread and post the complete TDM install dance, with a few things I left out (like proper partition formatting for the Monte Method backup). Maybe some of the administrators can make it a sticky thread in the future if they find the information relevant.

Please tell me where the WGS fountain is in Canada ;) They are quite rare indeed, having two is just obscene! lol You are a lucky man for sure, these are near impossible to find in Europe. I managed to track down one in Australia once, but shipping costs were stratospheric...I remember ringing the guy without considering the time difference. He was quite stunned at having someone on the phone at 5 am asking about the computer :)

 I was unaware of the reversed slot order in the 9150; there seems to be no definitive NuBus slot orders -they are completely different in Quadras. Regarding the PDS cable, I have seen them pop up in eBay but your creative solution seems rather cool too. Will have my eyes open in case I see any, I have never used such cable myself but I know the one you talk about.

My preference for the NewerTech has to do probably with my personal experience in terms of compatibility, but according to the info in the forums it really depends on the computer and setup -some work better with Sonnet, some with the MaxPowr from NewerTech. I had a really hard time finding a Mac with NuBus slots here in Spain...I managed to find a 7100 that had already been upgraded.

Regarding the video card, it is the best option -but please note it cannot be placed in the Expansion Chassis. Any video cards, alongside the FWB JackHammer need to go inside the computer. It would look something like:

- Video Card
- PowerPC EFI card (middle slot)
- JackHammer SCSI card

I have a Picasa video card for my 7100 which I love -but I have no expansion chassis so I end up using motherboard video just to have one more NuBus slot for my AMII.

Man I love the AMII, that sound is THICK! :)

By the way, what kind of music are you into?

- MusicWorks

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2016, 08:50:26 AM »
  I also have a WGS 6150, not that it's anything special (or different from stock 6100).  For some reason it provides a 'warm and fuzzy feeling' simply from having that badge on the front.  Just about everything I own Mac-wise has come from the US through eBay.  Persistent searching was key, although certainly the supply of computers and parts of this vintage was much better many years ago when I acquired the bulk of it.

  One oddity I have, since we're talking about 9150's, is a Q950 in a 9150 shell.  The difference between the two cases is the original Q950s had silver-colored electroplating for shielding, while the 9150 had gold color and the cut-away for the floppy drive moved down to make way for the DDS tape drive.  As I understand it, Avid wasn't ready to move away from supporting and supplying the Q950-based Media Composer systems, so using their 'leverage' they managed to push Apple to manufacture and ship more Q950s much later on.  These ended up being installed in the gold-lined 9150 shells that were part of the active production of the day, just with a normal Q950 front bezel with the floppy drive in the top.  To make things even more interesting, these systems came stock with a PDS PowerPC upgrade card, which I believe had been standardized to 100MHz in Avid's config.  Media Composer will only run in motherboards they officially allowed, so the possible base configs were limited.  I over-clocked the 8100/110 board in my Avid AMP chassis to 40MHz bus, after which the software refused to recognize the computer as a supported model.

  The silliness of the 9150 reversed slot order began with the Q950 being backwards from everything else for no reason I'm aware of.  It survived in the 9150 because the PowerPC motherboards were offered as drop-in upgrades for existing Q950 systems.  Preserving the odd slot order was the only way to ensure this transition went smoothly with the established card order in the Q950 systems already in use.  It was actually a major pain when I was expanding my Sonic Solutions system because all the boards are linked internally with custom a SCSI cable that only fits properly in one direction.  Creativity was required to get this solved.  Eventually I managed to locate a Sonic Solutions nubus expansion chassis, an extraordinary rarity, and proprietary, which freed the cards from the confines of the 9150 case.

  I'm aware of the limitations of no video cards in the Digi expander.  That said, just about every variant of expansion chassis I've ever tried caused the host system to puke if video was in the expander.  Just about the most useless, non-functional case was that of the Second Wave expanders, both the nubus 4-slot and 8-slot, and the PCI-to-Nubus version.  Just about any cards that would have been useful or high-performance were a no-go.  Perhaps they would have been more at home in an industrial data-acquisition setup.  I sold off all of it to collectors.  Someone lucky-enough to have owned the SE/30 host card for the 4-slot model might have had better luck with creating a working configuration.  My preference for dual video would be one PDS plus one nubus, because two high-performance nubus video cards together is asking for trouble even if they are identical.  (I did manage to get two 1600x1200 PCI cards stable in my 9500, however, and on custom-made mode/wiring adapters to 13W3 cables for SGI monitors at that!)

  As to music, while I appreciate quality in just about any form of tunes, my listening passion is electronic music.  From simple ambient or creative random noise all the way through to the hardest and fastest of beats, I marvel at how a 99-percent-plus synthetic instrument and sample pallet can appeal on such a wide scale to a basic human tribal instinct.  As much as some people don't 'get it', to many others it can induce the heights of emotion.  Sometimes I just like to listen closely to the types of individual sounds that have been created in published music and wonder what chain of processing could make them.  Often a common effect can result in unrecognizable change in a sound if the parameters of the controller are taken far outside the normal bounds.  I also greatly appreciate artists who manage to incorporate all of this with ordinary band instruments successfully, of which Radiohead is probably one of the most well-known examples.  I actually enjoy their creativity and quality more than the actual music itself!

  While I am no expert in music production, I have a strong desire to experiment with creating unique sounds that I can build into arrangements.  One of my family members is much better at musical composition than I am, so I may lean on his strengths to take what I create and assemble them into musical forms I wouldn't be able to visualize myself.  A real bonus of working with electronic sounds and having an open creative direction is that often the 'crudeness' of older equipment actually works in your favor.  The popularity of "chip-tunes" right now is a fine example.  Another would be specific synth flavors from well-known ancient computer and video game consoles being resurrected in established modern music forms.  Even the crudest of early 'drum-like' synth sounds from the Casio VL-Tone VL-1 micro-keyboard that was never intended for serious music-making have ended up in some recent hip hop tracks due to a somewhat cult-like status for the device.  (I happen to own one of these.)

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2016, 05:38:11 PM »
I found a bit more software in storage today.  There's a set of floppy disks that came in the box with my Audiomedia III card, all for PC:

1 - Wave Driver Disk Version 1.0
1 - Session Software Demo Install 1 Version 2.5 PC
1 - Session Software Demo Install 2 Version 2.5 PC

  I also found a sealed package Session Software for Windows (3.1 or 95), P/N PS002.  Never knew you could run it under Windows 3.1, which would be pretty novel.  It says it requires a Pentium 75MHz minimum, which would be quite painfully slow running Windows 95.  I think I actually have such a machine lying around here - it even has a four-disk CDROM-changer drive.  Might pop-in the Audiomedia just for amusement.

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2016, 06:35:41 PM »
  Okay, so over the last couple days I've been working through getting my 9150/120 system up and running.  After bashing my head against a wall just trying to get the thing to power up as far as video, the 'voodoo' cleared and the machine is back to normal.  It has a fresh install of OS 8.6 and OMS 2.3.8 awaiting a working Pro Tools.

  Now I've run into a new problem.  The Pro Tools 4.1.1 installer I have supports PCI computers only.  It will completely install and authorize without any warnings but fails to get all the way into the program.  I downloaded an older version of DigiTest (2.3) to see if I could at least get that to work, but it fails with an "unsupported machine" message (possibly because of the other software being wrong).  The ECI card is currently in Slot B since this is a four-slot machine.

  At this point I'm stuck because I don't have an installer for 4.0, nor an authorization disk (unless a 4.1.1 version auth is backwards-compatible).  I don't have the correct disks for version 3.x either, but I would rather stick with 4.x anyway.

  This raises the question - Does a nubus system have to have 4.0 installed first and then it can be updated to 4.1 or 4.2?  Or, do I need to get hold of dedicated nubus variants of these installers?  In any case, there seems to be no download source for any 4.x nubus installer disk(s).  The couple items available on Macintosh Garden don't appear to be of use to me on this particular machine.

  If I can sort out how to make a usable disk image of the 4.1.1 PCI installer I will certainly upload it here so I feel like there's some sort of fair value in trade for any other 4.x version anyone can post.  Authorization disks for 4.0 TDM or 4.2 TDM I don't know how I'll ever find though.

  So close, yet so far.  Very frustrating. >:(

Offline MusicWorks

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2016, 03:21:58 AM »
How is that primer install coming along? It's been a while since I checked the forums, hence the delay in my post. In the meantime, however, I have tested several different installs and have interesting conclusion I will post below.

Regarding your issue with the Pro Tools 4.1.1 installer, as far as I'm concerned the last version to work with NuBus systems was 4.2. If the installer goes through fine, and even authorizes correctly, I am pretty sure the problem might not be the version you are using...maybe some other incompatibility.

Pro Tools 4.1 was the version that shipped with the d24 and original PCI farms -the .1 revision was probably a general bug correcting on the original 4.1 for d24 users.

Now, Pro Tools 4.2 was made available shortly after, when the *new* PCI Core and DSP farm cards were made available. This allowed the full power of the new farm cards to be used by the software. Although this version is supported with NuBus it really makes no sense when used with PTIII hardware.

General consensus is that PTIII hardware works best with software versions 3.2 (in System 7.5) and version 4.0 (in System 7.5.5 or 8.1)

When running DigiTest it is always recommended to use the version installed by the original installer, which is matched to the DAE/DSI. Failure to do so might result in test errors and/or unreliable tests.

After testing several of my primer installs I have found that:

- The best (more responsive) install is when installed with the OS it was originally tested with: System 7.5.3 or 7.5.5.

- Mac OS 8 has a focus on color (yay!). What this means is that it has considerably more VRAM requirements than System 7, this takes a toll on responsiveness (and on available VRAM). With a good amount of RAM is doable.

- Mac OS 8.6 has almost the same VRAM requirements as Mac OS 9 (!) though in spite of being technically possible to run 4.x you can imagine it is far from usable in reality.

- Mac OS 8.1 with maxed out ram might be the best compromise and is fully compatible.

Basically, the higher you go the more a "hog" the OS becomes to the system. With Pro Tools all tasks are calculated by the cards/Disk IO, but you want a light system so that responsiveness is were it should.


System 7 runs smoooooooth.

Btw, send me a PM when you read this.

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2017, 11:09:16 AM »
i have a friend who has the unique ability to duplicate floppy authorizers that are otherwise unable to be duplicated (using a rare vintage hardware solution)

if anyone has any rare authorizations they need to create new working usable copies of you can message me and we can make arrangements.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2017, 08:08:48 AM »
i have a friend who has the unique ability to duplicate floppy authorizers that are otherwise unable to be duplicated (using a rare vintage hardware solution)

if anyone has any rare authorizations they need to create new working usable copies of you can message me and we can make arrangements.

Yes, we have discussed this... a "Central Point Copy II PC Deluxe" board that connects in between a Floppy drive and it's controller will do the trick :)

... If you can track one down

Here is some old info we discussed:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2680.msg16412.html#msg16412

macStuff

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2017, 01:29:33 PM »
i dont think my friend has that particular solution
i think he is using a different system based on a different os/hardware
i think he is an apple II guy

but i just found this manual for sale on ebay: (without the hardware?)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Computer-Manual-Copy-Max-II-Central-Point-Software/191934830529?hash=item2cb03517c1:g:p9IAAOSwTZ1XnQ~K

so in addition to the Copy II PC, it seems there must have been a "copy II mac" version of this product aswell.. from the manual cover it says:
COPY II PLUS (for apple II series),
COPY II MAC (for Apple Macintosh),
COPY II 64 (for commodore 64/128 series),
COPY II PC (for IBM/PC compatibles),
COPY II ST (for atari ST)

« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 01:42:20 PM by macStuff »

Offline garnopal

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2018, 07:31:14 AM »
Thus, the only cards this interface is supported with is SA4 (original 442 card), SA8 (bridge card in PTIII) and the Amadeus PCI card.

Hi, Musicworks (if you read this),

Back in the mid 90's, I used to work with a Digidesign 442 v.1 interface. I still miss its great converters, as I miss my rock-solid Quadra 650 and smooth OS 7.5.3... But are you sure that the PT III bridge I/O card could recognize the 442 ? I thought that in an expanded PTIII system, the 442 was only supported by its original SA4 card + TDM piggyback...

Also, i notice that in your nubus PT collection, your only interface is the 442. How can you get the entire system working if you do not have a 888 or 882 interface connected to the Disk I/O ?

Regards.

Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2022, 09:49:53 PM »
can you provide a pack with every floppy needed to set up a pt 3 tdm nubus. greazeweasle?
i think the forum should do donations to people who provide flux images of their rare floppies so they can buy the grezeweasle
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2022, 10:26:10 AM »
wait what the pro tools nubus extension rack plugs into a pci extension card?
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline rvense

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2022, 02:12:02 PM »
I've seen an ad for such a thing, but I don't think they were common. I have a nubus-nubus expansion, those aren't that rare.

Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2022, 06:11:07 PM »
I've seen an ad for such a thing, but I don't think they were common. I have a nubus-nubus expansion, those aren't that rare.

got a link, i just bought two 8100s because i got the powerpc host card only, a digidesign nubus extension chassis to PCI card not by digidesign, which was a oem version of 2nd/second wave out of nashville would indeed be a finding
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline Pink Flamingo

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2023, 07:01:16 AM »
Hi everyone! I'm currently creating a project involving a complete Pro Tools TDM system (4.2) with an 888 I/O 24, d24 and Farm cards + Power Macintosh G3 Minitower running OS 8.5.
Since it looks virtually impossible to buy the original software, I downloaded Pro Tools 4.2 from the Garden but it lacks the floppy authorizer. Would maybe a kind soul help me to find an authorizer image from this floppy or maybe sell me one if needed?

Thanks in advance,

David.

Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2023, 07:25:51 AM »
The line for those is from here back to 1996

That being said it isnt impossible im about to acquire 2 pro tools 4.3 boxes. As soon as ive transferred the licenses back to the authorizer floppies its greasewease time. Lots of logistics before that happens. Ill keep ya posted.

Getting the 8100 g3 running pro tools 5.01 with dae/dsi care package has priority. The modified dae/dsi must be floating around in cyberspace im sure of it. And if not maybe its easy to resedit it or maybe someone can do it. I want to run os 9 with that rig. Lets pray its possible.

Why not use pro tools 5.01 its a iso and a serial. Well at least i hope so, just found this floppy which makes me unsure. ive read conflicting reports.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2023, 11:40:28 AM by smilesdavis »
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline Pink Flamingo

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2023, 09:40:27 AM »
Hi there!

Looking for some help here. I'm currently looking for a PCI expansion chassis for a Pro Tools 24 system (pre MIX era) including a Power Macintosh G3 Minitower 300 (which only offers 3 PCI slots) a d24 card, 3 farm cards and a Samplecell II card. I was recently offered a Digidesign MAGMA PCI-7 PXB which was being used to run a Pro Tools 24 MIX system (at least I was told so) so I'd like to know if it would work in my setup without problem. I checked a digicompat file but didn't find any info about this one on the Pro Tools 24 section (but it doesn't also appears on the PT24 MIX section and apparently works in that environment).

What do you guys think? Thank you all in advance.

Offline Pink Flamingo

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2023, 04:25:05 PM »
_
« Last Edit: July 04, 2023, 08:28:31 AM by Pink Flamingo »

Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Seeking Pro Tools 3/4/5.x TDM system building advice.
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2023, 01:00:08 PM »
Thats super cool just got my first d24 card from 1998 (1997 are earliest)
With botches nicenice

Love it

Ive read it works in g4s —even osx—  the d24 so why bother with g3s?

http://archive.digidesign.com/compato/os9/pt24/

Quote
Supported CPU Models, Speeds & Requirements*

Power Macintosh G4 (AGP graphics)
Power Macintosh G4 (PCI graphics)
Power Macintosh Blue & White G3
Power Macintosh Beige G3
Power Macintosh 9500 or 9600
Additional Computer Requirements

System Software: Mac OS v9.0.4, 9.1, 9.2, 9.2.1, or 9.2.2 (depending on CPU model)

Total System RAM:

Minimum 256 MB
Pro Tools application "Preferred" memory allocation set to 70 MB
DAE "Preferred" memory allocation set to 60 MB
Virtual memory is not supported
High edit density, extensive use of plug-ins, and addition of options like MachineControl, DigiTranslator, and AVoption|XL will require additional RAM
Monitor, color required, minimum resolution of 1024 x 768

Opcode OMS v2.3.8 or higher (supplied)

Apple QuickTime v4.1.2 or higher (QuickTime 4.1.2 is supplied on your Pro Tools CD. QuickTime 5.0.2 is also supported)

ATTO ExpressPro-Tools v2.3.2 or higher (supplied)

Hard Drive Minimum Requirements

SCSI HBA Card Required

Maximum Performance Guidelines

*Note: Pro Tools|24 systems require at least two PCI slot. Apple computers that do not contain PCI slots, such as the G4 Cube and iMac, are not supported with this system.

Originally Pro Tools 24 started with Pro Tools 4.1
The white boxes i have 2 here in my collection
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts