Author Topic: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM  (Read 3946 times)

Offline retromac

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • new to the forums
Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« on: November 17, 2015, 11:47:12 AM »
Hello everyone!

Well, midi interface Midiman (green with blue) working great and ran a simple test. Audio card is the Korg Oasys PCI 256 samples and on Cubase. Would like to upload a 2MB sample project to see if you get the same CPU reading on your machines (if you don't mind to check it out and do not mind the non quantized keyboard track).

I'm getting audio drop-outs and the CPU is already at 40% when the song is loaded and just idle.

I might not have gotten rid of the Audiophile software as it is still being referred in the control panel.

Other than that I think everything is kosher so I'm surprised about it struggling to play such a short count of tracks.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance~

(Fixed the typos yet I don't drink nor dabble with recreational substances :)

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2015, 12:01:08 PM »
Did you use any virtual instruments? Effects and stuff?
the driver should be in the asio folder within cubase folder. Remove it by dragging it out and reboot the machine.

Offline GaryN

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 667
  • active member
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2015, 02:54:40 PM »
Agreed. That much CPU fuss at idle is often a plugin that just runs constantly. Have you tried disabling / muting tracks and or plugs one by one?

Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1928
  • keep it simple
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2015, 03:07:38 PM »
I have tested your file in my MDD and CPU is at 20% when the song is loaded and just idle. But it should be near 0%. Something is wrong whit this file  :-\ ...
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2015, 03:12:07 PM »
I looked in the asio folder and there is no driver in it. If you got one for your device thats the place where it should be.

Offline retromac

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • new to the forums
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2015, 05:33:46 AM »
Thank you everyone for this.

I have some time restriction with work, family and all but will try to get to it. Thank you for loading the file and my apologies for the delay in answering and the sloppiness of the track but yeah, I'm getting dropouts and a load of 40% when idle. The guitars sound horrible I know. It's a cheapy plus no preamp.

I'm confused about this:

Quote
I looked in the asio folder and there is no driver in it.

You couldn't have done that even if you were a Chinesse hacker. The MDD is not on a network  :D

Ok that confuses me (I'm a total newbie on MacOS9). When saving a song on Cubase  references to the ASIO driver gets saved too? That's real forensics there.

"I looked in the asio folder and there is no driver in it. If you got one for your device thats the place where it should be."

I need further clarification. You might even have my credit card # by now! Holy cows! I think the ASIO driver is where I thought it was supposed to be.

Will be back in a bit.

Thank you and hope you enjoy the jokes "mr Snowden"   :D :D :D :D

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2015, 05:48:06 AM »
i have the instant daw installed here. in my case i have a m-audio usb device and they have a asio driver for it. i dropped that driver in the asio folder and had access to it within cubase. you need to tell us what kind of equipment you got hooked up to it, like a digi 001 or whatever else you got.

Offline retromac

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • new to the forums
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2015, 07:41:34 AM »
I have an Oasys PCI by Korg. Certainly, my biggest issue (I think) is the fact that I am clueless about how MacOS9 works in regards to many things, in this case regarding ASIO drivers. I noticed that some apps had a folder called ASIO drivers so I realize at some point (it was in some instruction manual I think for the Korg Oasys PCI itself) that I had to drop or copy the ASIO driver to each ASIO application. My previous experience was on Windows all the way from 95/98 and up where my recollection was that you run an installer that made the driver available to everyone and it was listed "somewhere" and apps would "grab the listing" in their "Audio Options/Preferences/Settings" menu and you could choose a variety of drivers. I understand it doesn't operate that way on Mac OS9 hence I'm a bit lost. I must with all embarrassment confess that even copying and pasting is a bit new for me as when I right click on "copy" and then right click on "paste" when using the finder sometimes it just creates a shortcut so I could easily be the most inexperienced member here (though I'm enjoying the ride).

I originally had two partitions (9.2 and Jaguar) but ended up erasing the Jaguar partition as I couldn't figure out how to run ASR but from inside of an already running partition of Mac OS9. Was that intended that way or was there a way to run ASR from a live boot CD?

Regarding my system I have an MDD dual processor 1GHZ 1.25 GB of RAM and a Korg Oasys PCI with ASIO drivers 2.0. For MIDI I have the green and blue Midiman.

Within Cubase I am able to go into the Audio options and chose the ASIO driver for my Korg card. From within Cubase that allows me to launch the Korg Oasys PCI ASIO dialogue where the samples buffer can be set.

Now, one question was if you guys are experiencing the same CPU load with this rather simple file and if you are then I wonder what could be the culprit, I mean I was wondering if you were able to spot it easier as you have much more experience with these setups than I do.

Offline retromac

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • new to the forums
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2015, 07:49:22 AM »
By the way, I'm sure I've never completely delete from the system references to a Delta Audiophile as I had no clue of how to use the extension enabler or how to delete an extension... For God's sake I was actually unable to launch an application without the dragthing dock! I was wondering what was the typical workflow for the day to day regular Mac user if you wanted to see a list of all the available programs on a Mac and have access to them with ease if you did not have a dock or a Finder shortcut in the menu. So, yeah, I'm that poorly experienced on this OS after having played with many versions of Linux, Windows and OSX since like 1992.


Regards!

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2015, 07:55:24 AM »
You just made the need for a video tutorial about the instant daw and other things clear. I think i work something out on that. For the rest give me a little bit of time if you can because im on the road for the most part of the day.

Offline retromac

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • new to the forums
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2015, 08:24:27 AM »
Thanks so much Devil's advisor for giving any time to brainstorm about what could be the fun hindering factor on my setup. Something I missed to mention is that I have a standard power supply on that machine as the original power supply went. It might only be 250Watts if I'm not mistaken.

 

Offline retromac

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • new to the forums
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2015, 08:29:29 AM »
Gary N and Mactron, thanks so much for loading the file. You are welcome to quantize it or just turn the volume down altogether and just look at the CPU load if it become too unbearable.

Will run the test you suggest later today and if the culprit is a plugin it will get deleted from my system. I was getting 40% of CPU load on idle which for a first test was a bit disappointing as I think I used a small fraction of the trillion available plugins the instant DAW has in there.

Regards!
 

Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1928
  • keep it simple
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2015, 09:07:08 AM »
I think the issues are into the channel #1 and #2 settings, so take a look at the inserts, sends and EQ settings in those channels.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline DieHard

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1236
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2015, 01:24:31 PM »
Check the settings in Cubase with this info Here (also but monitoring on "Global Disable" as a test)

http://i.korg.com/services/products/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_and_cubase_vst.htm

Quote
Using Zero-Latency Monitoring

Using ASIO 2.0, Cubase VST can control the OASYS PCI's hardware-based, zero-latency monitor mixer, allowing you to monitor input signals without the delays caused by monitoring through Cubase VST's CPU-based mixer. To do this:

1. In the OASYS PCI ASIO Control Panel, make sure that the button next to "Zero Latency Monitor Mixer" is lit. This enables the OASYS PCI's hardware monitor mixer...

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1569
  • new to the forums
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2015, 03:23:43 PM »
basic rule for beginners: in cubase/nuendo/logic, always set the track buffer size as well as the drivers buffer size to the highest possible value for good performance.

only while you want to play in live midi (e-g- to a virtual instrument) and suffer from a too high delay, you can change the driver buffer size to 32 or 64 - and later revert it again to the max.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Jakl

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 301
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2015, 04:06:24 PM »
To retromac have you managed to fix the problem yet?
I used the Korg Oasys PCI for many years.
It seems you have enabled both the Oasys Apple Sound manager Driver and then trying to run the VST driver as well - is this true?

Try this then;
Turn the Korg ASIO sound manager driver off - IOW just choose the Apple audio driver for Sound preferences for the Apple system sounds etc.
For Cubase use the ASIO Korg Oasys PCI Driver. Try not to use the Korg Oasys Sound Manager Driver with the Cubase ASIO driver at the same time.
Switch one or the other off.
So for example if you want to listen to a CD on the computer - turn on itunes/CD-Player select Korg driver for sound manager and listen through the card.
If you want to use Cubase turn off the Korg Sound manager and use the ASIO Korg cubase driver. Both drivers run at the same time can cause these issues.

Let me know if this worked - thanks

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 648
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2015, 04:10:59 PM »
To retromac have you managed to fix the problem yet?
I used the Korg Oasys PCI for many years.
It seems you have enabled both the Oasys Apple Sound manager Driver and then trying to run the VST driver as well - is this true?

Try this then;
Turn the Korg ASIO sound manager driver off - IOW just choose the Apple audio driver for Sound preferences for the Apple system sounds etc.
For Cubase use the ASIO Korg Oasys PCI Driver. Try not to use the Korg Oasys Sound Manager Driver with the Cubase ASIO driver at the same time.
Switch one or the other off.
So for example if you want to listen to a CD on the computer - turn on itunes/CD-Player select Korg driver for sound manager and listen through the card.
If you want to use Cubase turn off the Korg Sound manager and use the ASIO Korg cubase driver. Both drivers run at the same time can cause these issues.

Let me know if this worked - thanks


you might need to slow down some and make some screenshots where he can find what you just described. he is lost in os9 and needs a compass. im working on some tutorials but screenshots can help him to locate some of the stuff.

Offline retromac

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • new to the forums
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2015, 09:13:19 PM »
You guys are insanely awesome, I can't believe the richness of your support! So here is the update, these last two days have been a bit of a challenge on the music front as family activities and work have taken over my time. Just saw this today.

What Devil's advisor says is true about how lost I am. Not new to ASIO drivers nor new to Cubase. I still have this exact version for Windows, parallel port dongle and all. Mac OS9 seems to be a bit of a different paradigm from where the Linux interface, shortcuts and workflow  (just to mention something I'm familiar with in addition to Windows and OSX) didn't copy much. I even managed to run Cubase 5 on Linux on wine, so I comfort myself a bit thinking about that. I also remember that when I was exposed to Mac OS9 (and it was current) I felt fascinated on one end but certainly intimidated and overwhelmed on the other.

Regarding Diehard's suggestion about using direct monitoring I chose not using it as I wanted to gain some inspiration from the live effects in Cubase while playing.

From Jakl:
Quote
It seems you have enabled both the Oasys Apple Sound manager Driver and then trying to run the VST driver as well - is this true?

Thank you for the suggestions on the Korg card. The weekend is approaching so I am looking forward to spending some time with this  8)

What you suggest sounds very likely as I don't exactly know what I'm doing and have brought the Oasys PCI editor along with Cubase in order to load "multis" and so on.  Fortunately I also happen to have an Event/Echo Gina PCI card (which I know is supported) that I can drop on this DAW should the Oasys become too painful to work with. Screenshots (as Devil's advisor suggested) of the steps you mentioned would help tons, I'm clueless but willing to tinker and try to make sense of the suggestions but I'd totally understand that you might not have the card any longer on your system so you might not be able to provide these even if you wanted to. I'm sure that if I tinker with it a bit it will make sense if I just let my right side of my brain digest it over the next two days.
 

Offline DieHard

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1236
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2015, 09:02:30 AM »
Quote
Regarding Diehard's suggestion about using direct monitoring I chose not using it as I wanted to gain some inspiration from the live effects in Cubase while playing.

I suggested this as a test to determine if you had a plugin (on the input side) that was bringing down Cubase; Also remember, buffers are important; as suggested, use lower buffers when recording (to prevent lag) and higher buffers when mixing to prevent high CPU use-age (after adding plugins).  Lastly, under OS 9, monitoring via the Host (with buffers set low) and adding plugins at the time of recording is a definite recipe for disaster.  An extremely small mixer (with a built in reverb if you are recording vocals) and monitoring "global disable" is a viable solution if you are doing many tracks; lag/latency will be at an absolute minimum with "Global disable" Set. :)

Small mixers do not have a "Direct Out" so simply connect a master send (from Aux 1 or 2) to the DAW input and turn up the send on the channel you want to recording (make sure all other channels have send off). In this manner you can hear your vocals with effects, hear the monitor mix from the DAW, and yet a dry signal into the DAW gets recorded

Offline retromac

  • Active Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
  • new to the forums
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2015, 11:18:31 AM »
So the weekend came and went and then Thanksgiving and then another weekend and my wife kindly re-purposed valuable chunks of my free time all along. This goes of course without mentioning other time consuming domestic annoyances like "enjoying" the symptoms of our only car battery and alternator dying  on the road and enlisting the appropriate experts to replace them. Yet what have brought my MDD project to a stall is that the video card started showing those weird textile patterns on the screen making it totally unreadable. I have had reseated the card in the past with some degree of success but this time is more stubborn than before and to no avail. This happened once again shortly after my last post and almost immediately after I successfully got my MDD online for first time (bridging two dd-wrt routers wirelessly) and was about to log in into this forum with Classilla after updating it. I went and put the video card of another MDD (a single processor one that has no hard drive in it) and the problem went away yet these two are different video cards and I did not have time to figure out the video card driver installation procedure. Diehard's instant DAW automagically recognized my previous video card from the get go somehow.

I'm guessing that it shouldn't be difficult to figure out the driver's install on that should I want to permanently cannibalize my other MDD though Mac OS 9 still makes me feel like a novice even after my having done some geeky projects on my own here and there like flashing third party firmwares to routers, installing MorphOS (Amiga compatible OS) to a Mac mini G4, write a little VB, etc, but as I have said before Mac OS 9 is different to the Windows, OSX and Linux interface/workflow (My impression is that current Linux iterations borrow from the other two). Of course, should I get stuck with that you guys will be the first to know  :D

My original intention when I purchased my MDD a few years back was to simply house my Oasys PCI (which synths were a lot of fun to use back in 2002 on a Windows 98 box that died) but it wasn't until very recently and on my third attempt (which only succeeded with  your help) that I was finally able of putting it all together as a working unit. Unfortunately my lack of experience with the interface and workflow of Mac OS9 has hindered my Oasys PCI ride per se. I mean, I haven't played with the Oasys synths or effects (which seem to be some sort of a hassle to integrate into Cubase and I do not remember that being the case at all in my Windows box back then). I have had instead much more fun with Cubase (which I have used in Windows, OSX and even on Linux via wine!) and with the synth plugins you guys generously made available here than with my Oasys card itself... ...until my video card on my MDD went  ::) (I have already done the power supply mod to it two years back as the MDD power supplies are known to be prone to fail). Now, I have a few video cards, including a couple of AGP ones and a PCI card here and there but they are Windows only cards and then unless I permanently cannibalize my other MDD (single processor one) my other choice would be spending $15.74 on e-bay to replace my Radeon 9000 64MB. Can I just put my Radeon in the oven and try to re-float it? I have read somewhere in here that the single processor MDD was somehow better for DAW purposes but don't remember to have read the final word on that. Is the second processor seen/used by Cubase or the plugins or by any audio software in Mac OS9? In the mean time I have been spoiled over the years to keep my latency to a minimum, run two or three live plugins on guitars and vocals, run a reverb and a delay as internal software sends and yet monitor them right through the host while I record without any audio dropouts. If it wasn't for the latter I could see my self investing some cash in water cooling this beast as it is truly loud but the $ I've spent on this project's hardware wise hit a cap :(

As for my Oasys PCI (which I've read somewhere in this forum that it isn't regarded very high) since I am fairly proficient using Windows, discovered recently that there's a patch that allows Windows 98 (the only other OS that can house my Oasys PCI card drivers wise) to use upto 3GB of RAM, that there's an unofficial service pack for it, that there's a software called kernelex that allow some recent apps to install by fooling them into thinking you are running XP and that some Core2Duo boards have drivers for 98SE (and I happen to have a 3000Ghz C2D 8400BX laying around) I have decided to try to give it another dignified home.
 
I still have my other single processor MDD intact and will get it running as a fun project. In the mean time I will look for any recommendations on how to replace my dual processor MDD's video card, flash the ROM of an existing Windows one etc. as I hate not to see it fully operational.

At any rate, this forum and the Macintosh Garden have been truly awesome discoveries for me. The software collection you guys have made available here plus the vast knowledge and thorough replies you provide in record time alone makes the ride worth it. I will totally stay around and will look for (or wait for you to e-mail me) whenever you have some pages full of ads so we can click them out in gratitude though please if possible do not integrate the ads to the forum, instead make a page of only ads and we'll stay for a few minutes clicking on the suckers.

Regards!!!

Offline DieHard

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1236
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2015, 10:55:02 AM »
So the weekend came and went and then Thanksgiving and then another weekend and my wife kindly re-purposed valuable chunks of my free time all along...

Your not the only one with this problem :(  Guess we'll have to keep them after all...lol

Quote
I'm guessing that it shouldn't be difficult to figure out the driver's install on that should I want to permanently cannibalize my other MDD
Yes... very easy... check the apple system profiler in Mac OS 9 and look at what is in your MDD slots, then got into the "extensions manager" and check or uncheck the applicable video drivers... see here
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=570.0
2) VIDEO CARD INFORMATION (needed for later on)
From the Apple Menu, click "Apple System Profiler"
Select the Second Tab at the top "Devices and Volumes"
Under the PCI, Slot-1, AGP section, click the blue triangle to the left of "Display Card" to open the Video card info. write down the card Manufacturer

Quote
Can I just put my Radeon in the oven and try to re-float it?
Re-flowing via oven or hair dryer is a joke, and will just buy you a few more hours, days, or weeks, no tricks here, just replace it.

Quote
Is the second processor seen/used by Cubase or the plugins or by any audio software in Mac OS9?
We have long explanations (just search the forum); but if it is an OS 9 only MDD, then single processor is the way to go.

Quote
In the mean time I have been spoiled over the years to keep my latency to a minimum, run two or three live plugins on guitars and vocals, run a reverb and a delay as internal software sends and yet monitor them right through the host while I record without any audio dropouts.
OS X and MultiCore systems are better suited for this scenario by far :(

Quote
As for my Oasys PCI (which I've read somewhere in this forum that it isn't regarded very high)
It is a good overall card and should produce pro results under OS 9
 
Quote
At any rate, this forum and the Macintosh Garden have been truly awesome discoveries for me. The software collection you guys have made available here plus the vast knowledge and thorough replies you provide in record time alone makes the ride worth it.

We are glad you found us, If the "learning curve" on OS 9 is hindering you, then I recommend getting a real cheap Dual core G4/G5 (or fixing what you have) and trying Logic Pro 8 (no dongle needed) in OS X; the learning from CuBase will be minimal since it has a Track view with Inspector and many other very similar features.  You can do the software Monitoring without a hitch in LP8.  In the long run, Windows will hinder you much more

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1569
  • new to the forums
Re: Poor CPU performance on MDD Dual 1GHZ 1.25GB RAM
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2015, 07:38:42 PM »
Your not the only one with this problem :(  Guess we'll have to keep them after all...lol

sure, will kepp the īputers forever. :)

everything else is rick ashley. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com