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[Protools5LEGuy]

Time ago we thought OSX talk could damage our main interest (OS9) and we cleaned all OSX stuff to enhance our OS9 strength. Those days are over. OSX talk can't damage our OS9 status. If it is DAW related. We do not want to become the last resort for Photoshop PowerPC users. Our main focus is DAW and Video edition software.

OS9 vs OSX wars are not allowed. But OS9vsOSX benchmarks are allowed.

Are we mature enough to have this chat here?

[supernova777]

i would reccomend u make the appropriate sections here for hardware. os.. etc   
similar to the structure for the classic mac os section (minus the unsupported hardware section of course)

Child Boards: Operating System, User Applications, System Utilities
General Hardware Discussions, Storage Technologies, Video Cards

see my list of max compatible versions for ppc osx:
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php?topic=148.0

[chokobo]

Wow this is super cool!   

[supernova777]

Wow this is super cool!   

see... Vive la Revolution.. 

[DieHard]

For Now... I want to keep the Board structure at the Root level unchanged... but I will simply add a PPC Zone under any Main Board that needs One

[IIO]

beside the fact that this is a Mac OS 9 forum ... the worst you can do with a PPC G4 is to use it for audio in OSX.

[DieHard]

I'm kinda with you IIO... The G4s run Audio under OS9 like a rocket, for OS X, not so... it is best to throw massive amounts of RAM and CPU Power into the equation, so OS X is better running on a fast Intel

[Protools5LEGuy]

The G4s run Audio under OS9 like a rocket, for OS X, not so... it is best to throw massive amounts of RAM and CPU Power into the equation, so OS X is better running on a fast Intel

OSX is for duals... A dual machine is "more" machine in OSX. Also, OSX needs other graphics cards generation... I have been with ATI RAGE 128 GL/PRO for years in OS9 with "acceptable" behaviour, but on OSX RAGE is really low end. Tiger and Leo demands not only Quartz capable cards (any card from RADEON and Geforce MX2) but CoreGraphics cards (From Radeon 9600 and Geforce 5200), having bad performance on Quartz only cards for keeping that eye-candy OSX look that Steve Jobs said "you have to lick".

OSX is still the best tool for OS9. Audacity in OSX is a swiss knife for taking 32 bit floating "cubase" files to 24 bit fixed "protools" format. And for all those post-OS9 codecs/files.

[Protools5LEGuy]

I have been with ATI RAGE 128 GL/PRO for years in OS9 with "acceptable" behaviour, but on OSX RAGE is really low end. Tiger and Leo demands not only Quartz capable cards (any card from RADEON and Geforce MX2) but CoreGraphics cards (From Radeon 9600 and Geforce 5200), having bad performance on Quartz only cards for keeping that eye-candy OSX look that Steve Jobs said "you have to lick".

You pay CPU cycles on OSX for the eye-candy. All DAW OS9 users have "half" the power on OSX than on native OS9 for this shit. I use shadow killer on OSX http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/6428/shadowkiller-x and that "helps" performance on RAGE 128 setup to be "acceptable"

beside the fact that this is a Mac OS 9 forum ... the worst you can do with a PPC G4 is to use it for audio in OSX.

Yes, but some features (as elastic audio on protools) are only on OSX versions. It could worth some users to edit with those OSX only tools and keep mixing on OS9.

[DieHard]

Good Points PT5... 

I have mentioned Logic Pro 9 more than a few times... which is my favorite DAW to date, but I still enjoy doing some things in OS 9.  it's all good

[supernova777]

beside the fact that this is a Mac OS 9 forum ... the worst you can do with a PPC G4 is to use it for audio in OSX.

thanks for sharing your experience. but other people may have different goals / software & hardware compatibility concerns.
or they may find a different approach that you never thought to try.
lets let other people draw their own conclusions.

i personally think that the apps from around the time of Tiger are very functional + usefull.
much more so on an intel machine.. this is true.. but they are still functional on powerpc.
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php?topic=147.0

especially if you are a composer.. using external hardware synths&gear...
some vsts are good. but lets be honest. alot of them are shit.

[Protools5LEGuy]

I have mentioned Logic Pro 9 more than a few times... which is my favorite DAW to date, but I still enjoy doing some things in OS 9.  it's all good

Logic Pro 9.0.2 can run on G4s https://cjedaudio.wordpress.com/2009/07/25/logic-pro-9-ppc-compatible-and-faster/, but with a 1/5 power than Logic 4 on OS9... I guess you love Logic 9 on Intels

[acelera]

There are a few reasons why OSX is not for me on the G4:

- SoundDiver and its Autolink with Logic are too important to me. I have more or less grown old of most virtual instruments and have a spiralling amount of MIDI outboard instead. Lack of total recall in OSX for my patches would drive me insane.
- My Korg Oasys PCI does not work on OSX. Easily the best ever DSP virtual synth/instrument card done for a Mac.
- Apple dumped support for Emagic's AMT MIDI time stamping protocol on OSX and replaced it with vanilla OSX support. To the risk of being flamed to death, I have never experienced tighter MIDI than with Unitor/AMT8 devices natively linked to Logic in OS9.
- As some of you say, OSX is sluggish on anything less than a G5. I don't remember loving it that much on my dual G5 either and I only use 10.9 on my 2012 MBP because it's a quad core i7.

[IIO]

Yes, but some features (as elastic audio on protools) are only on OSX versions. It could worth some users to edit with those OSX only tools and keep mixing on OS9.

there are thousands of things you can do on OSX and i absolutely agree that you need OSX on every OS9 workstation, so that you can use the one or other utility, beside rar and mp4 maybe even some audio program.

but when you open an OSX forum here people will also talk about cubase SX - just to give you a valid example of an application which is a lot worse than its predecessor.

the argument that we also use OSX or windows is a nonargument why we should include it here. we also have girlfriedns, pets, cars, and most of us also eat and shit. but all these things are offtopic IMO.

i´d rather include "OS9 video" here, but of course this is also sketchy already (because using OS9 for video is also not the smartest you can do)

[Mat]

I don´t see any good reason for a X zone here. There are hundrets of possibilities out there to talk about X. But - be honest - from the beginning of X onward, Apple tried to make 9-users live harder. How does Cameron Kaiser say it: "Apple wants us to recycle our perfectly good classic Macs and stick us on the soulless consumer treadmill."

And the most annoying thing is we are takling about 2 completely different Operating Systems. As different as Windows and Linux. For Mac OS 9 users it is totally hard to find informations for their OS, and to differ them from X informations/programs/etc. . If people now will permanently have to look if the information/posting is for X or for 9 here as well, it may become really uninterresting, as long as you are not a daily user of both systems. The snow in this forum is already quite much, and it just will become harder when we include a totally different OS.

The other problem is, the more X informations will appeare here, the more assumed easyer solutions with X will be posted. Like IIO above is talking about X for rar and mp4. Why? Both are working well with Mac OS 9 (macrar, and QT mp4). So a kind of "assimilation force" will appeare.
And really, I had enough silly comments the last 10 years in forums around the world, telling for every problem with 9; "take X".  All the lies what 9 cannot do, where you allegedly need X for, ...

And it will not stop with X and PPC, already here in this thread we can read Intel is better in some cases, so the "assimilation force" will even become bigger, and there are no good reasons to talk about X for PPC and not for Intel, ...

And finally, I would be interrested about how the statement "Those days are over. OSX talk can't damage our OS9 status" evolved. Was there any internal discussion, some experiances you made the last year, any public talk about it that I didn´t get? Because it is exactly what I would expect. And when you once feared it like I do now, it would be totally interresting why this times should have changed.

[supernova777]

i think it was mentioned by the admin that X vs 9 discussion "Battles" will not be allowed.

u need to respect the decision of the admins.

[acelera]

There is value, IMHO, in having an X section. Many X resources focus on Intel Macs which, to the purist at least, are just PCs in Apple clothing 
In my personal opinion, the Mac mystique has been watered down progressively over the years and it's all a bit generic in the world of the modern day Mac and MAC OS.

For example, my almost done 6 card TDM Mix system would probably run fairly well on 10.3.6 but it's just not on my list of priorities to try to do so as I have a ton of work to finish the studio as it is and, to me at least, it's a case of fully restoring the environment that I was most comfortable with over the years, rather than fiddling for the sake of it. I think there is value in that and at the same time totally 'get' how we all have different needs and use cases for 9, X, both or whatever.

I view this site as a quality resource for the G3-G4 era of Mac computing, which is a period very dear to me. If you guys want to open a forum subsection for Yellow Dog Linux, well, that would be a bit more specialist but fair game probably.

[DieHard]

OK... as far as "battles"; I personally don't mind if people express their opinions (even if they are negative toward OS X... or even OS 9 for that matter) as long as 2 members do not face off and attach each other, I am sure Mac OS 9 and OS X can handle any comments you can throw at them.

I expected some of our valued users would be upset about adding the PPC OSX Zones, and I apologize for not making a post explaining why we were also going to include some PPC OS X content here; I will try to do my best now...

Without going into a long boring story... we had to pass the torch from MacTron. Let's face it, he did so much (and got a lot of our available content working) and he carried the Admin load for a long time.  ProTools5LEGuy was the logical choice, and I thank him for stepping up to the plate.  As you know PT5 is more lenient when it comes to discussing things that are "off-topic" like Mac OS X.  So the issues that we faced, from day one, were that...
1)  Some apps/topics actually "overflow" from Mac OS 9 and also include OS X
2)  The available PPC G4 DAW info for those who run OSX and 9 together is getting scarce out in the Web
3)  Anytime Chris made a post that crossed over to both 9 and X, we had no place to put the X stuff and we ended up with a bunch of Off-topic stuff that got mixed in
4)  The PPC G4 is a dead-end hardware platform, no matter what OS you are running on it

So, as per suggestions from Chris, PT5 and other users (and believe me I would get a bunch of messages), I decided to include AS A SUB-BOARD ONLY (and not as a main board off the Root of the forum) a PPC OSX Zone for each topic that needed one.  If that is enough to dilute the whole forum, then you do not have much faith in the classic Mac OS as I do

I want to thank everyone for all the valued input that has made our forum grow; and please accept my apologies if we make changes that you do not necessary think are for the better... as always, it is your choice to ignore any sections that you do not like.

I am still hopeful that our Mac OS 9 lives forum will do just that.... keep interest in Mac OS 9.... and I am hoping that we can also help some of the many PPC OSX users along the way that are pretty much in the same boat, using equipment and an OS that is marked as "obsolete and useless"

[supernova777]

its fine to have an opinion.. but when u are person A with the opinion.
and person B is having a problem and asking for help .. or looking to find out information
(which is equally as antiquated + hard to find) .. u need to respect Person B's needs / goals / aspirations...
Person A's Opinion is not more important then Person B's needs.

they have as much right to try to find a solution to their problem as anyone else.

the whole sub board thing is bullshit imho it would have been a much easier thing to
let people talk freely abotu what they need to. rather then to have to make an admin handpick + sort things.. as long as the content is titled properly then there would be no need for sub boards + extra work to categorize + sort.

if all u people that bicker and spout off your useless opinions would focus on actually contributing usefull info here, we might actually get somewhere valuable.

[Mat]

I am still hopeful that our Mac OS 9 lives forum will do just that.... keep interest in Mac OS 9....

Well, thanks for your explenations! Let´s see if the subforums help to keep 9 and X stuff apart. Perhaps it works.
I still fear that the focus will move towards X, as mainstream always puts pressure to niches, even if not intended. I have seen many forums going down when things are mixed up. For example when Sound On Sound put the Atari section into "Apps and Other Computers/OS" and nearly all Atari users left, and now you can just read about iOS, Android and Linux there.
Let´s hope that this "Mac OS 9 lives Forum" will stay as a main source for Mac OS 9 informations and not for other Operating Systems. For better understanding, I do not post Atari issues here even if I know there are at least 5 further Atari interrested people around. But there are better places to do so, and I do not have to bother Mac OS 9 interrested persons with my Atari (recording/MIDI) issues.