Mac OS 9 Lives
Mac OS 9 Discussion => Mac OS 9, Hacks & Upgrades => Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware => Topic started by: ssp3 on April 01, 2024, 06:27:40 AM
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This table has been created and moved to the top for those who don't want to read the whole thread but are after quick answers.
The table will be updated as soon as there is any new data.
NOTE 1. OS9 tests were run using v8 ROM file and appropriate extensions.
NOTE 2. v8 ROM file + ATI Via driver + patched ATI extensions = v9 ROM file + original ATI extensions as they are present on RossDarker's v9 installer CD for Mini. ATI Via driver is integrated into v9 ROM.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=14899)
Note the strange setting required for Dell P190S and LG L1730P to work with RockHopper driver.
Samsung SyncMaster 203B also have problems with the same driver.
And, in contrast to both Dell 22" full HD displays, Fujitsu 23" model doesn't work with RockHopper on DVI port at all.
* I made this table in Apple's Numbers. If someone has other test results, just let me know and I will happily add them.
Original thread starts here:
I think it's time that we share our experience using Mac Mini G4s with various displays.
I own several Dells:
1x P2212H - 22", 1920x1080 @60Hz, TN type panel ("Office grade"), VGA + DVI inputs
3x U2412M - 24", 1920x1200 @60Hz, IPS type panel ("Ultrasharp), VGA + DVI + Display Port inputs
I also have 1.25; 1.42 and 1.5 GHz Mac Minis, so, lets test them and see how they work with these displays in OS9.
All System parts from RossDarker's v9 installer.
1. P2212H + 1.25 GHz or 1.42 GHz Mini
a) Using original, Dell supplied DVI to DVI cable.
This one is very odd - on the very first cold boot, when display has been disconnected from G4 and mains for a day or so, it boots into OS9 and displays at full resolution for a few minutes. Then tiny horizontal lines appear on the display and soon thereafter it goes black. On all subsequent reboots it remains black. I have to wait another day to bring back this condition. Maybe something discharges inside the display? Some sort of PRAM?
Obviously, this way of connecting is no go. :(
b) Using "el cheapo" DVI to VGA adapter at Minis' end and original, Dell supplied VGA to VGA cable. No problems whatsoever.
Displays at full resolution (1920x1080 @60Hz). Only at start-up it shows ugly looking Mac logo at 640x480 for a moment, before switching to full resolution.
I was able to take a few screenshots when using DVI to DVI cable, before display went black, so here's the proof.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13689)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13691)
2. P2212H + 1.5 GHz "Silent upgrade" Mini
a) Using original, Dell supplied DVI to DVI cable. Does not work. No matter what I do, it displays the message below.
b) Using DVI to VGA adapter + VGA to VGA cable - works as expected
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13693)
3. U2412M + 1.25 GHz or 1.42 GHz Mini
a) Using original, Dell supplied DVI to DVI cable - works as expected.
b) Using DVI to VGA adapter + VGA to VGA cable - works as expected
4. U2412M + 1.5 GHz "Silent upgrade" Mini
a) Using original, Dell supplied DVI to DVI cable - doesn't work, see message below.
b) Using DVI to VGA adapter + VGA to VGA cable - works as expected
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13695)
5. Sony Bravia TV, HDMI input + any of the 1.25; 1.42 or 1.5 GHz Minis
Display resolution - 1360x768 @60Hz
Using DVI to HDMI adapter at Minis' end and HDMI to HDMI cable.
All work, although I have a feeling that 1.5 GHz model hangs on boot with spinning ball more often than the others.
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I forgot to mention. If you hold the option key, when you boot the 1.5 GHz mini, at least with my 22" Dell connected to DVI, it displays everything correctly - 1920x1080. Cursor and icon sizes as they should be.
I've spent a good part of my afternoon patching things and modifying ROMs. All I can say at the moment is that it's the ATI stuff that messes things up.
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I forgot to mention. If you hold the option key, when you boot the 1.5 GHz mini, at least with my 22" Dell connected to DVI, it displays everything correctly - 1920x1080. Cursor and icon sizes as they should be.
I've spent a good part of my afternoon patching things and modifying ROMs. All I can say at the moment is that it's the ATI stuff that messes things up.
Yes, not just the "alt-boot" Boot Picker menu, but even Open Firmware looks fine in 1920x1600@60Hz, and even the Happy Mac logo when booting OS 9. The problem starts however right after the Happy Mac logo is done displaying. Of course, OS X 10.2 ~ 10.5 (and probably 10.6 alpha) all show fine, too.
It'd be awesome if that issue was solved with Mac OS 9 for the 1.5GHz mini.
Also, as per request, I'm reposting my experiences here, as well, so that information on this specific issue is not "lost" in the huge Mac mini G4 megathread:
One part of me is still not 100% sure if the following is an overall "revised" / "silent upgrade" mini issue, OR a specific 1.5GHz "Super mini" issue. In other words, I don't know for sure if the 1.33GHz mini is also affected or not. I highly suspect it is, BUT... Only someone with a 1.33GHz mini can tell us for sure.
In my case, I have a DELL U2412M, it's a 16:10 aspect ratio, 24", 1920x1200 @60Hz monitor. Used with the 1.5GHz Mac mini G4 (AKA "Super mini") model.
After using these ATI Extensions (http://"http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2408.msg47160#msg47160"), which are different from what's on both v8 and v9, I got it to recognize a lot of resolutions and frequencies, via DVI. Even 1920x1200, but only @ a frequency higher than 60Hz. But my monitor is limited to 60Hz maximum. I get a black screen if I try such higher frequencies. However, at 60Hz, I do have the option to use 1600x1200 still, which is 4:3, and it just adds some black borders to the side, but otherwise it's a pixel-native resolution that works well, as long as I configure my monitor to display everything with a 4:3 aspect ratio.
Some full-screen games automatically try to switch it to 1920x1200, though, which my Mac OS 9 can only recognize at a frequency higher than 60Hz, and so I get a black screen with them, despite what I set the resolution to. So even my manual fix is not perfect.
Using an old mid '90s CRT monitor I have, though, those ATI Extensions I mentioned lead me to get no picture.
Switching to v9's unmodified ATI drivers instead, then it "works", but only at 800 x 600 resolution, and only at 256 Colors. Some games crash when I play them like this.
Now, when I switch to v8's unmodified drivers, then it works perfectly for (almost) every resolution option it gives me, which is a lot of them! Then the same games that crashed before don't crash anymore, and I can use Millions of Colors.
I hope this helps us keep track of this issue. As you can see, short of using a 1.25GHz and 1.42GHz mini, graphics and monitors can be messy and complicated. Using precisely these 2 mini models, the issue just disappears.
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Something that had crossed my mind was the fact we’re using the NDRV from 10.3.7/10.3.6 in the extensions/ROM used in v8/v9 respectively. Now of course, the original Mac minis shipped with 10.3.7, but later models with 10.4.2. Perhaps the slightly upgraded graphics unit of the 1.5 GHz model doesn’t ‘like’ something from these versions of Panther.
Those other ATI Drivers from @whoisthisguy, who also has a 1.5 GHz model, use an NDRV from 10.3.9. Good discussion at http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4987.0
Tiger’s NDRV in Mac OS 9 looked promising, but the system hung once ATI extensions loaded. Leopard’s seemed to have issues too. If I recall, there was a reason for using Panther, but it could be something to revisit. https://github.com/elliotnunn/x-ndrv
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Model Identifier PowerMac5,1 (Cube) is set in the boot script. BUT!
G4 Cube has one VGA port and one ADC port.
Mac Mini G4 has DVI port.
Maybe this is what confuses Mini?
You could give this older ‘Quicksilver’ ROM a try on your 1.5 GHz model. There’s a little problem with the sound being loud and distorted (line out), but it’d be worth seeing if anything with the graphics changes when different combinations of the ATI drivers are used. https://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2408.0;attach=5049
I gave this a go. Unfortunately, there were no changes in behavior with regards to video, and the video options.
Something that had crossed my mind was the fact we’re using the NDRV from 10.3.7/10.3.6 in the extensions/ROM used in v8/v9 respectively. Now of course, the original Mac minis shipped with 10.3.7, but later models with 10.4.2. Perhaps the slightly upgraded graphics unit of the 1.5 GHz model doesn’t ‘like’ something from these versions of Panther.
Those other ATI Drivers from @whoisthisguy, who also has a 1.5 GHz model, use an NDRV from 10.3.9. Good discussion at http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4987.0
Tiger’s NDRV in Mac OS 9 looked promising, but the system hung once ATI extensions loaded. Leopard’s seemed to have issues too. If I recall, there was a reason for using Panther, but it could be something to revisit. https://github.com/elliotnunn/x-ndrv
I tried the "ATI RockHopper2 Driver.sit" attachment (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4987.0;attach=6332) from that thread, specifically this post (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4987.msg36231#msg36231), as well as "MiniG4_ATI9200_1.01.sit" (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5009.0;attach=6339) from this related follow-up post (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=5009.msg36290#msg36290). The latter one is the one I was already using to be able to use even the 4:3 resolution 1600x1200@60Hz, since v8 and v9 drivers give me no picture "out-of-range" issues. The former worked as well for me as the latter did. But neither of them allow me to use 1920x1200@60Hz (OS 9 gives me the option to use it at 76Hz, but my monitor doesn't support that).
It was a nice try, though. I also tried combining these with the "QuickSilver" ROM above, but like I said, no changes happened with that.
So basically, we have 3 video settings, so far:
1. modified ATI drivers (v8 and earlier)
2. unmodified ATI drivers (v9)
3. combination of: v8's modified ATI drivers + removal of "ATI Via Driver" + addition of @whoisthisguy's Extension (RockHopper2)
To summarize, my 1.5GHz mini:
With 1.: Works on CRTs, but not with the LCD monitor known as DELL U2412M, at least via DVI;
With 2.: Is buggy on CRTs, working only with 256 Colors at 800x600 and seemingly no acceleration, causes some 3D games to crash. Also does not work with a DELL U2412M, at least via DVI;
With 3.: Works on the DELL U2412M, at least via DVI, although 1920x1600@60Hz is not available, even though it should and even though the 1.25/1.42GHz minis can use it with v8 and I think also v9. Does not work at all on CRTs. Maybe it even crashes the OS when using a CRT?
Hearing @ssp3 on the other thread made me realize, I don't think I tested things out with the VGA port much. There's also the DisplayPort port, although I'm already using that one for something else.
After using these ATI Extensions (http://"http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2408.msg47160#msg47160"), [...]
I put a broken link. This is the correct link (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2408.msg47160#msg47160). And within that post, another 3 links are referenced, which need the following URL update:
I am running the v9 build of the Mac Mini G4 OS 9 from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2408.1050.html
The base set of extensions comes from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4277.msg29392.html#msg29392
and the modified RockHopper driver comes from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=5009.0.html
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This whole ATI Drivers thing is one big mess.
Nothing is documented in one place, there are intermediate versions uploaded here and there and and and.. I hate to do the detective work!
Once upon a time iMic took OS9 ATI Driver Update (driver extension), extracted Via NDRV from OS X Panther, replaced the Data fork of ATI Driver Update with the driver from Panther, made changes to several Resources and so the ATI Via Driver for his iBook. was born.
At some point later darthnVader extracted RockHopper NDRV from 10.3.7 and replaced the Data fork of iMic's ATI Via Driver with it.
He changed a value in cfrg Resource, leaving everything else, including names, in place.
This then became the RockHopper driver called ATI Via Driver for G4 Mac Mini..
darthnVader also modified several other ATI extensions with correct device IDs (5962), making sure that the chipset is recognized.
It's all described here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4650.msg33543#msg33543
The same RockHopper NDRV from 10.3.7 is integrated into Mac OS ROM that ELN made and RossDarker put on v9 disc image.
That driver is in ELN's GitHub repository and is called "ATY,RockHopper2-1.0.1f63-20040916.133447.pef"
Then, in May 2019, whoisthisguy took the Merlin NDRV from 10.3.9 (?) and placed it in ATI Via Driver , but this time renamed it to ATI RockHopper2 Driver.
There are two versions of this ATI RockHopper2 Driver out there:
* "ATI RockHopper2 Driver.sit" gets you earlier version from 26th May.
* "MiniG4_ATI9200_1.01.sit" is version from 27th May with "cosmetic" changes to several Resources.
Data forks (NDRV part) of both of these are identical, they both work in the same way.
So, to summarize:
ATI Via Driver is in fact real RockHopper driver.
ATI RockHopper2 Driver is Merlin driver masqueraded as RockHopper.
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Yanked the v9 ROM file from System folder and replaced it with v8 ROM.
All furher tests will be conducted using this ROM and minimal set of darthnVader's modified ATI extensions plus ATI Via Driver or ATI RockHopper2 Driver (RockHopper / Merlin) or none of the above.
Dell 22" P2212H + 1.5 GHz Mini
Native display resolution - 1920 x 1080 @60Hz (16:9)
1. DVI to VGA, ATI RockHopper2 Driver - black screen.
2. DVI to VGA, no driver - 800 x 600, no acceleration.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13708)
3. DVI to VGA, ATI Via Driver - max resolution, acceleration works.
Note that display is recognized correctly as Dell P2212H
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13710)
4. DVI to DVI, ATI Via Driver - black screen. Similar to my test with v9 ROM in the first post.
5. DVI to DVI, no driver - 1920 x 1080, no acceleration. Display is recognized as Color LCD.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13712)
6. DVI to DVI, ATI RockHopper2 Driver - max resolution, acceleration works.
Display is recognized as VGA (!) despite being connected over DVI. I think, this is because of Merlin code.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13714)
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Great thread guys. I just upgraded 3 Mac mini G4s to SSDs, 1GB RAM, and installed the stock v9 Mac OS 9.2.2.
The 1.25 Ghz one I installed had no issues at 1920x1080 on my Dell 4K S2722QC.
The 1.33 Ghz and 1.5 Ghz will be big pixeled/blurry in a weird way on that monitor at 1920x1080 @60 Hz to the point of basically unusable but are fine at 1024 x 768 @ 60 Hz.
So to the poster earlier in the thread, I can confirm the 1.33 seems to have similar issues to the 1.5.
I just bought a lot of 13 of these and plan to do similar upgrades on all of them (and probably sell them) so I am happy to test some potential upgraded drivers/fixes.
I should mention I am using a DVI to HDMI cable. When I tried a DVI to HDMI adapter from a no-name brand I got intermittent black screens/flickering.
By the way thanks to the folks who worked on the Mac OS 9 hack for these machines. They are the ultimate Mac OS 9 machines...
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The 1.25 Ghz one I installed had no issues at 1920x1080 on my Dell 4K S2722QC.
The 1.33 Ghz and 1.5 Ghz will be big pixeled/blurry in a weird way on that monitor at 1920x1080 @60 Hz to the point of basically unusable but are fine at 1024 x 768 @ 60 Hz.
So to the poster earlier in the thread, I can confirm the 1.33 seems to have similar issues to the 1.5.
There we go! One report on the 1.33GHz model over this subject. If this is the case, then the problem arises indeed because of the Mac mini G4 firmware that is ever-so-slightly different between the PowerMac10,1 (1.25GHz / 1.42GHz) and PowerMac10,2 (1.33GHz / 1.5GHz) models. It is not an oddity coming from the bigger VRAM in the 1.5GHz model or something.
I do know of one immediate theoretical solution for the "silent upgrade" minis: use the Mac mini ROM (the actual ROM, the New World ROM inside the ROM chip inside the physical device) of the earlier models to flash them exactly as is on the "silent upgrade" models. Some side-effects though would be things like identical serial numbers between minis. I also don't know if the 1.5GHz model would get downgraded to only 32MB of utilizable VRAM, but that won't apply to the 1.33GHz models.
Ideally, though, we don't want to take the flashing route... If we can patch up the Mac OS ROM file so that the existing v8 / v9 solutions can otherwise work for those minis, that would be ideal. It also would make @RossDarker's ASR plans of forking files depending on the model possible. (Worst case scenario, though, we could have 2 different CDs, one per model type.)
@ssp3 I know it's a different monitor, but even in your last screenshot I see the 1920x1200 resolution being available, but only at 76Hz. That is precisely why I can't use that resolution on the DELL U2412M, since it needs to run at 60Hz instead (and maybe 61Hz, but I'm not sure). If only we could somehow "hack a new entry in", at 60Hz instead...
I know we are talking of only the video issues here, but we also have NVRAM issues on these models. So sooner or later, we might want to look into the existing v8/v9 Mac OS ROM, and try to address those problems also...
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@ssp3 I know it's a different monitor, but even in your last screenshot I see the 1920x1200 resolution being available, but only at 76Hz. That is precisely why I can't use that resolution on the DELL U2412M, since it needs to run at 60Hz instead (and maybe 61Hz, but I'm not sure).
Hang on there, I'm not Speedy Gonzales ;D
If you read my first post, you will see that I have three of those (my workhorse displays). Tests are done, I just didn't have time to publish them.
If we can patch up the Mac OS ROM file so that the existing v8 / v9 solutions can otherwise work for those minis, that would be ideal.
I've already tried to apply various changes to v9 ROM and made about 10 different versions. No luck.
When it comes to graphic oddities, I think it's the issue with less than ideal ATI driver for displays with high-ish resolutions by OS9 standards.
Speaking of v9 ROM...
I posted this to the long Mini thread half a year ago, but got zero response. Needless to say that v8 ROM has no duplicate lines.
A question to creators of ROM file for Mac Mini or those in the know: why are there two instances of 'PowerMac10,1 PowerMac10,2' and several other duplicate lines in the boot script in ROM file? Was it done on purpose? If so, why?
<COMPATIBLE>
PowerMac10,1 PowerMac10,2 PowerMac10,1 PowerMac10,2 MacRISC
</COMPATIBLE>
\ Hacks for Mac mini, should not affect other machines
" /" select-dev " model" active-package get-package-property 0= if
decode-string 2swap 2drop 2dup " PowerMac10,1" $= -rot " PowerMac10,2" $= or if
\ Pretend to be a Power Mac G4 Cube
" /" select-dev
" PowerMac5,1" encode-string 2dup
" model" property
" MacRISC" encode-string encode+
" MacRISC2" encode-string encode+
" Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+
" compatible" property
device-end
\ Pretend to have a PowerPC 7445/55, actual PVR unaffected
" /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0" select-dev
80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property
device-end
\ Set prim-info (for PwrMgr v2 in NativePowerMgrLib)
" via-pmu/power-mgt" select-dev
000000ff encode-int
0000002c encode-int encode+
00030d40 encode-int encode+
0001e705 encode-int encode+ \ public features
00001400 encode-int encode+ \ private features
00000000 encode-int encode+
0000260d encode-int encode+
46000270 encode-int encode+
" prim-info" property
device-end
then
then \ End of mini hacks
\ Hacks for Mac mini, should not affect other machines
" /" select-dev " model" active-package get-package-property 0= if
decode-string 2swap 2drop 2dup " PowerMac10,1" $= -rot " PowerMac10,2" $= or if
\ Pretend to be a Power Mac G4 Cube
" /" select-dev
" PowerMac5,1" encode-string 2dup
" model" property
" MacRISC" encode-string encode+
" MacRISC2" encode-string encode+
" Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+
" compatible" property
device-end
\ Pretend to have a PowerPC 7445/55, actual PVR unaffected
" /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0" select-dev
80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property
device-end
\ Set prim-info (for PwrMgr v2 in NativePowerMgrLib)
" via-pmu/power-mgt" select-dev
000000ff encode-int
0000002c encode-int encode+
00030d40 encode-int encode+
0001e705 encode-int encode+ \ public features
00001400 encode-int encode+ \ private features
00000000 encode-int encode+
0000260d encode-int encode+
46000270 encode-int encode+
" prim-info" property
device-end
then
then \ End of mini hacks
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The 1.25 Ghz one I installed had no issues at 1920x1080 on my Dell 4K S2722QC.
The 1.33 Ghz and 1.5 Ghz will be big pixeled/blurry in a weird way on that monitor at 1920x1080 @60 Hz to the point of basically unusable but are fine at 1024 x 768 @ 60 Hz.
....
I should mention I am using a DVI to HDMI cable. When I tried a DVI to HDMI adapter from a no-name brand I got intermittent black screens/flickering.
To those, who will be posting their results to this thread - please list the following, so that we know as much details as possible.
1. Mac Mini model - 1.25; 1.33; 1.42 or 1.5 Ghz.
2. Software version used - v8; v9 or some other.
3. ATI extensions used - original or modified.
4. Driver extension used - ATI Via Driver or ATI RockHopper2 Driver.
5. Cables, adapters and ports used in the test. Ideally all that are available.
6. Display model + ports available (VGA, DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort)
7. Native resolution of the display - i.e. 1920 x 1200 @60Hz etc.
Pictures and screenshots are welcome :)
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I should mention I am using a DVI to HDMI cable. When I tried a DVI to HDMI adapter from a no-name brand I got intermittent black screens/flickering.
I think you've jumped to conclusions way too soon. If one is testing something, all possible variables should be included in the test too. ;)
And so I conducted the following test that I omitted before.
* Dell 24" U2412M + 1.5 GHz Mini
* v8 ROM, modified ATI extensions (minimal set), ATI RockHopper2 Driver.
* Testing DVI to DVI connection using DVI to HDMI adapters and HDMI cables.
I have at my disposal three adapters - two dual link DVI-D and one single link DVI-D.
I also have two HDMI cables - one thicker and one thinner. Where they come from and who made them, I have no idea.
With all possible permutations:
* 2 dual link adapters
* 1 dual link and 1 single link adapter
* single link at Mac end
* single link at display end
I got normal picture (given the U2412M oddities) with thicker HDMI cable.
When I tried the other, thinner cable, I got this. And, no, the cable is not defective, it works fine elsewhere.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13722)
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@ssp3 Is there something special in that last screenshot? 1920x1080@60Hz is "normal" to have with that monitor + ATI RockHopper2 via regular DVI-DVI cable, as well.
Are you trying to say that with the thicker HDMI cable (but not the thinner one), you were able to get 1920x1200@60Hz instead, on that monitor?
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@ssp3 Is there something special in that last screenshot?
Obviously. Tons of horizontal lines. Could be sync problem.
Are you trying to say that with the thicker HDMI cable (but not the thinner one), you were able to get 1920x1200@60Hz instead, on that monitor?
No, I didn't say that. Better wait for my next test results. Or switch to VGA cable right now, if you want 1920x1200@60Hz and can't wait any longer ;)
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Dell 24" U2412M + 1.5 GHz Mini
Native display resolution - 1920 x 1200 @60Hz (16:10)
1. DVI to VGA, ATI RockHopper2 Driver - black screen.
2. DVI to VGA, no driver - 800 x 600, no acceleration.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13724)
3. DVI to VGA, ATI Via Driver - max resolution, acceleration works.
Note that display is recognized correctly as Dell U2412M
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13726)
4. DVI to DVI, ATI Via Driver - black screen. Similar to my test with v9 ROM in the first post.
5. DVI to DVI, no driver - 1920 x 1200, everything looks fine, but no acceleration and 256 colors only.
Display is recognized as Color LCD.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13728)
6. DVI to DVI, ATI RockHopper2 Driver - acceleration works, but there is no option to switch to 1920 x 1200 @60Hz native resolution
Display is recognized as VGA (!) despite being connected over DVI. I think, all this is because of Merlin code in the driver.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13730)
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If someone thinks that having 1.25 GHz or 1.42 GHz model is a safe bet, check how many conditions produced black screen with this combo.
Dell 22" P2212H + 1.25 GHz Mini
Native display resolution - 1920 x 1080 @60Hz (16:9)
v8 ROM, minimal set of modified ATI extensions plus ATI Via Driver or ATI RockHopper2 Driver.
1. DVI to DVI, ATI Via Driver - black screen.
2. DVI to DVI, ATI RockHopper2 Driver - black screen.
3. DVI to DVI, no driver - black screen.
4. DVI to DVI, no driver, no other ATI extensions - black screen.
5. DVI to VGA, ATI RockHopper2 Driver - black screen.
Strangely, once installed, I found it difficult to boot with "Extensions off" to recover from this condition. I had to switch to DVI-DVI cable and then back to do it.
6. DVI to VGA, neither ATI Via Driver nor ATI RockHopper2 Driver - black screen after brief moment with Happy Mac icon and large cursor.
Recovery as difficult as above.
7. DVI to VGA, no driver, no other ATI extensions - 640 x 480, 256 colors, no acceleration.
8. DVI to VGA, ATI Via Driver - max resolution, acceleration works.
Display is recognized correctly as Dell P2212H
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13734)
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@ssp3 Great detective work! So it essentially works correctly with both of those DELL monitors as long as we connect to them via its VGA port instead of the others. I don't know if this is laggier than plain DVI due to it being an analog connection which gets converted to digital (AFAIK), but it seems to be the only proper option. It is curious how it is even able to get the monitor names.
In any case, even then, it needs the ATI Via Driver, which is included with v8 and earlier. Just to be sure, using VGA with v9 (no modified drivers) = black screen? Did v9 + ATI Via Driver + VGA work?
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OK, I spoke too soon: I still do not get 1920x1200@60Hz over the VGA port of the DELL U2412M monitor with the ATI Via Driver: It still only shows the option @76Hz instead, all other resolutions at @60Hz are lower. I have a small VGA-to-DVI converter on the mini side, which I always used successfully with a CRT monitor. Also, my monitor is only identified as "VGA Display" in the Control Panel, just like before, instead of "DELL U2412M". It is weird we have the same minis and monitors, yet the results were different. Different VGA-to-DVI adapters? Different VGA cables?
There's also now an additional issue: the picture quality is slightly blurry, presumably due to conversion loss by using the VGA cable instead of DVI.
Interestingly, some extra options showed up on the Monitors Control Panel, which are suffixed by (NTSC) and (PAL). The PAL ones are at 50Hz. The NTSC ones just seem redundant with what I already had.
Oh well, back to DVI and ATI RockHopper2...
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Just to be sure, using VGA with v9 (no modified drivers) = black screen? Did v9 + ATI Via Driver + VGA work?
I guess I wrote too many lines and posted too many pictures.. ;D
@Jubadub, this is for you.
U2412M + 1.5 GHz Mini
DVI to VGA adapter + VGA to VGA cable by Dell.
1. v9 installation (v9 ROM, unmodified ATI extensions), no ATI Via Driver, no ATI RockHopper2 Driver - WORKS.
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=7048.msg54304#msg54304
2. v8 installation (v8 ROM, modified ATI extensions, ATI Via Driver included) - WORKS.
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=7048.msg54404#msg54404
With v9 install, you don't need ATI Via Driver, because it is integrated into v9 ROM.
Any driver that you will put in as Extension will override the built-in ATI Via Driver and will require all other modified ATI extensions.
As to the DVI to VGA adapters, I've been using plain vanilla and also original Apple provided ones. In my case, they all behaved identically.
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My results...
1.42 GHz Mac mini
Aluminium Cinema HD Displays
Testing both the 23" (1920x1200) and 20" (1680x1050) models of the display independently; the results are the same.
Both connect over a hard-wired DVI cable and are recognised as "Cinema HD" in the Monitors Control Panel.
Standard v9 install - full resolution @ 60 Hz, 2D/3D Acceleration working (both monitors)
Standard v8 install (v8 ROM + Via Driver) - full resolution @ 60 Hz, 2D/3D Acceleration working (both monitors)
v8 ROM + RockHopper2 Driver - black screen, 3 blinks from monitor LED. Can hear system sounds once booted, just no picture.
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OK, I spoke too soon: I still do not get 1920x1200@60Hz over the VGA port of the DELL U2412M monitor with the ATI Via Driver: It still only shows the option @76Hz instead, all other resolutions at @60Hz are lower. I have a small VGA-to-DVI converter on the mini side, which I always used successfully with a CRT monitor. Also, my monitor is only identified as "VGA Display" in the Control Panel, just like before, instead of "DELL U2412M". It is weird we have the same minis and monitors, yet the results were different. Different VGA-to-DVI adapters? Different VGA cables?
1. Make sure you have correct ROM / ATI Extensions / driver combination as I outlined in my previous post. Check modification dates, if in doubt.
2. Reset PRAM. Maybe even using OF commands.
3. Pull all other cables, except VGA from your display, just in case.
4. Try other adapters and VGA cables.
5. It could be that it is down to display revisions. Mine are relatively new - 2017, 2018 and 2021.
EDIT. I have a feeling that you have extensions that are fighting each other. Try the minimal set that I describe in the post below.
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Additional notes on my tests.
1. As can be seen from my posted screenshots, I am using only minimal set of ATI extensions to test for 2d acceleration. There are three plus driver extension, when needed.
2. darthnVader modified 3 extensions - ATI Resource Manager, ATI Graphics Accelerator and ATI 8500 3D Accelerator. And ATI Via Driver, of course.
I am leaving out ATI 8500 3D Accelerator in my tests. To spot modified extensions, check their modification dates - they are from 2018.
3. One other extension needed for graphics stuff to work is ATI Extension. It remains unmodified. I have tested several older versions (back to as far as 2001) and they all work.
4. Important! If you remove ATI Extension, but leave all other ATI extensions in place, you will get black screen. At least it happened to me when I tested with v8 ROM.
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Aluminium Cinema HD Displays
Testing both the 23" (1920x1200) and 20" (1680x1050) models of the display independently; the results are the same.
Both connect over a hard-wired DVI cable and are recognised as "Cinema HD" in the Monitors Control Panel.
Oh, Cinema HD Displays 8)
These two are listed in Mac Mini G4 documents as compatible, so, no surprise they're working.
OT. These are the older, non LED backlight models. How are they aging in terms of brightness, uniformity and color?
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Oh, Cinema HD Displays 8)
These two are listed in Mac Mini G4 documents as compatible, so, no surprise they're working.
OT. These are the older, non LED backlight models. How are they aging in terms of brightness, uniformity and color?
Yes they’ve always been working fine for OS 9 on the mini, just not with ‘RockHopper2 Driver’.
These matte displays are holding up well. The 23” one was bought in 2008. Having been in use since, there are these slight streaks of burn-in at the very bottom of the display, but this isn’t noticeable unless you’re looking for it with a blank background.
My 20” one is completely fine; bought this one several years ago, initially for the Mac mini in fact. Of course, it’s been used with various other computers since too. No burn in there, brightness seems to be as I remember, and the colours are fantastic on both.
Great monitors for their age!
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Schlepped home another Dell display to test it with Mini. This one is higher quality version of 2212 from their "Ultrasharp" line.
Dell 22" U2212HM + 1.5 GHz Mini
Native display resolution - 1920 x 1080 @60Hz (16:9)
IPS type panel
VGA + DVI + Display Port inputs.
v8 ROM
Test conditions identical to my previous tests
1. DVI to VGA, ATI RockHopper2 Driver - black screen.
2. DVI to VGA, no driver - 800 x 600, no acceleration.
3. DVI to VGA, ATI Via Driver - max resolution, acceleration works.
Display is recognized correctly as Dell U2212HM
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13757)
4. DVI to DVI, ATI Via Driver - black screen. Similar to my test with v9 ROM in the first post.
5. DVI to DVI, no driver - 1920 x 1080, no acceleration. Display is recognized as Color LCD.
6. DVI to DVI, ATI RockHopper2 Driver - max resolution, acceleration works.
Display is recognized as VGA (!) despite being connected over DVI.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=13759)
As can be seen, the results are identical to those of the other version of Dell 2212.
I think that either Dell displays report to graphic chips/cards in a certain way and that's why Minis are so finicky with them or there might be a problem with Full HD 16:9 displays in general.
If anyone else is using 1920x1080 display with his Mini, please chime in.
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Still talking to myself..
To complement what I wrote about similar combination and OS9 > http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=7048.msg54411#msg54411
Dell 22" U2212HM + 1.25 GHz Mini
Native display resolution - 1920 x 1080 @60Hz (16:9)
DVI to DVI cable.
Mini is running "naked". No DVD drive, no Mezanine, Bluetooth or AirPort boards.
Boot drive - 128GB 2.5" "stripped" Samsung SSD on a cheap JMicron adapter. (My standard setup).
OSX 10.5.8 Leopard
Boot into OpenFirmware
First attachment. One can barely see command line prompt.
Boot into Leopard
Second attachment. Same problem.
Boot into Leopard, VGA cable + adapter
Third attachment. Note the odd aspect ratio. It becomes normal when OSX drivers kick in.
It looks to me that first generation Minis have problems communicating to Full HD 1920 x 1080 displays when connected over DVI in OSX too.
At least to those manufactured by Dell. VGA adapters are OK.
This might be the real reason why Apple silently upgraded G4 Minis and their ROMs - upcoming OS and modern display compatibility!
What's the point of having digital (DVI) connection on your product, if it doesn't work with Full HD displays that are gaining popularity? ;)
Of course, to be 100% sure, more user reports are needed !
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Of possible relevance here … per darthnVader.
Mac Mini G4 pixel clock limited to 135Mhz / April 1, 2018
https://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4337.msg30099#msg30099
Display Support: Single Display Resolution Support: 1920x1200
Details: The DVI video output supports digital resolutions up to 1920x1200. Apple also reports that it supports the "20-inch Apple Cinema display and 23-inch Apple Cinema HD display; supports coherent digital displays up to 154MHz; supports non-coherent digital displays up to 135MHz." VGA output (using the provided adapter) supports analog resolutions as high as 1920x1080. S-Video and composite video (to connect to a projector or TV) requires the Apple DVI to Video adapter (sold separately).
Coherent vs non-coherent is some obscure thing to do with the TMDS transmitter( on the GPU ) and the TMDS receiver in the display. The 9200 either has an issue with a weak TMDS signal with non-coherent receivers( Displays ). Or Apple crippled it, tho I doubt that.
The trouble is, no manufacturer really list that in the specs, and I doubt you'd get anyone in tech support to know what you were talking about if you did call them.
So it's really a crap shoot as to what brand and make of display will work correctly at the native res of the LCD/LED. My 1080p HDTV works fine with the Mini @720p, as the pixel clock is not over 135Mhz at that resolution.
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Of possible relevance here … per darthnVader.
Mac Mini G4 pixel clock limited to 135Mhz / April 1, 2018
https://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4337.msg30099#msg30099
Well, the same Dell 1920 x 1080 display works just fine with 1.5Ghz Mini in OSX Leopard. ;)
Besides,
* 1920 x 1080 Dell has 148.5 MHz pixel clock
* 1920 x 1200 Dell has 154.0 MHz pixel clock.
I'm curious where does the 135 MHz figure comes from.
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I'm curious where does the 135 MHz figure come from.
Perhaps you should ask (or invite) darth to comment here?
Not quite certain what you’re really expecting from the 2005 Mac minis (with fixed 32mb or 64mb of VRAM) originally designed to work with Apple monitors. Sure, they will work with some other monitors, but not always and not at all resolutions, nor connection variants.
But I do hope you find your answers and any possible solutions. ;)
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Perhaps you should ask (or invite) darth to comment here?
He was last seen here almost a year ago..
Not quite certain what you’re really expecting from the 2005 Mac minis (with fixed 32mb or 64mb of VRAM) originally designed to work with Apple monitors.
I do expect them to work with more or less modern displays. Not necessarily with 4k, but at least with Full HD.
I see no point of hot-rodding these Minis - overclocking, SSD drives, copper heatsinks and so on if at the end of the day one could only connect them to old and slowly fading CCFL backlight displays, no matter of what brand.
1920 x 1080 + LED backlight is the norm today, smaller resolutions of decent quality cost extra.
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May I just check what I'm seeing with my setup (G4 Mac Mini 1.5Ghz with a Dell 2407WFP). TLDR: I do not see a black screen with 1920x1200 on DVI but rather a corrupted display.
After playing I can only do 1920x1080@60Hz with DVI but all the way up to 1920x1200@60Hz with DVI<>VGA adaptor.
If I try to increase the resolution past 1920x1080 on DVI then I just get a corrupted screen (as seen in second attachment, the first being 1920x1080).
I've got the drivers as listed here:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2408.msg47160#msg47160 (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2408.msg47160#msg47160)
That is the v9 build, then the base set of @rockHopper@ then then modified Rockhopper driver.
Thanks Ferg
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Sure, they will work with some other monitors, but not always and not at all resolutions, nor connection variants.
i will never understand why some monitors work with a certain GPU drivers and others not, and i know that i am really lucky that i´ve chosen a mass product which seems to work under any conditions.
the pictures from ssp look like the cable or adaptor would be wired wrongly, but the resolution was supported?
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Sure, they will work with some other monitors, but not always and not at all resolutions, nor connection variants.
i will never understand why some monitors work with a certain GPU drivers and others not, and i know that i am really lucky that i´ve chosen a mass product which seems to work under any conditions.
the pictures from ssp look like the cable or adaptor would be wired wrongly, but the resolution was supported?
Good point. I never even thought to try a different DVI cable. I will give that a go!
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In my case, I have a DELL U2412M, it's a 16:10 aspect ratio, 24", 1920x1200 @60Hz monitor. Used with the 1.5GHz Mac mini G4 (AKA "Super mini") model.
After using these ATI Extensions (http://"http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2408.msg47160#msg47160"), which are different from what's on both v8 and v9, I got it to recognize a lot of resolutions and frequencies, via DVI. Even 1920x1200, but only @ a frequency higher than 60Hz. But my monitor is limited to 60Hz maximum. I get a black screen if I try such higher frequencies. However, at 60Hz, I do have the option to use 1600x1200 still, which is 4:3, and it just adds some black borders to the side, but otherwise it's a pixel-native resolution that works well, as long as I configure my monitor to display everything with a 4:3 aspect ratio.
Sorry I thought I had read this topic thoroughly but missed this. This is the same issue I see. The Dell 2407WFP will only do 1920x1200@60Hz, but that resolution is not listed. So on DVI at least I am limited to 1920x1080@60 or 1920x1200@76Hz
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Sorry I thought I had read this topic thoroughly.
Then read it again! Conditions similar to yours were described, three working solutions were found.
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Sorry I thought I had read this topic thoroughly.
Then read it again! Conditions similar to yours were described, three working solutions were found.
I did read it again! That's what I just said.
As I previously said DVI/VGA to VGA works fine at the higher resolution (that's one of your solutions right?). What I was trying to ask (forgive me if I was unclear) but from what I can gather if it does not work people are seeing a blank screen. I instead see a corrupted screen. Is that what other people see?
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I instead see a corrupted screen. Is that what other people see?
I used to have that issue in 2019 on an LED (and thus lame) Samsung full HD monitor I used to have back then. I forgot how I got past the issue. Perhaps I tried different adapters, and/or GPU drivers, and/or video cables.
Everything was somewhat identifiable visually, but unreadable and ugly. Is that your issue?
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Thanks a lot. That is what I see too.
I've tried many different DVI<>DVI cables but all show the same. I do have a few other monitors that I should try.
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As I previously said DVI/VGA to VGA works fine at the higher resolution (that's one of your solutions right?).
Yes, that is correct. Either with v9 ROM + unpatched ATI extensions or with v8 ROM + patched ATI extensions.
What I was trying to ask (forgive me if I was unclear) but from what I can gather if it does not work people are seeing a blank screen. I instead see a corrupted screen. Is that what other people see?
I think I wrote black screen, not blank screen. (Did I make a mistake somewhere?)
What happens with more or less modern Dell displays is that, when display doesn't like the incoming signal, it goes black and warning pop-up appears.
Since your Dell is earlier model (ca. 2007, CCFL backlight, if I'm not mistaken), it could be that disabling incompatible incoming signal was not implemented in display's firmware yet and users simply got distorted picture instead.
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TBH I wasn't sure there's a difference between a blank screen and a black one. But you sound right about the cause of the screen corruption.
I did finally get 1920x1200 working this morning. I saw a comment about using DVI>HDMI>DVI (sorry as I cannot remember where). I have a DVI > HDMI cable, but not an adaptor for the other end. But I borrowed a female HDMI > DVI adaptor. I can confirm that it works and I can select the 1920x1200x76Ghz resolution without any screen corruption.
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I can confirm that it works and I can select the 1920x1200x76Ghz resolution without any screen corruption.
1920x1200@76Hz ? This is very interesting!
Please confirm that you have:
* Real Mac Mini 1.5GHz (10,2), not overclocked 1.42GHz (10,1). Check with System Profiler, to be sure.
* Working with Dell (?) display that has 1920x1200 @60Hz (?) native resolution. Or should have, I'd say.
* And it is possible to set it to 76Hz and picture displays correctly?
A screenshot would be helpful too.
Thanks.
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I can confirm that it works and I can select the 1920x1200x76Ghz resolution without any screen corruption.
1920x1200@76Hz ? This is very interesting!
Sorry but it looks like I was wrong. But what happened is a little bizarre (at least to me!).
When I clicked on the 1920x1200x76Hz resolution the screen flashed then when it came back the Control Strip had moved up. I assumed (wrongly) 120pixels had been added below it (difference between 1080 and 1200!).
However, when I rebooted (after I had posted) and checked the resolution on the monitor it still says 1920x1080. I checked the Monitor and it seems that no matter which resolution I choose it stays on 1920x1080x60hz (see screenshots). I can select 640x480 and the screen flashes and goes to 1920x1080! I guess something about DVI>HDMI>DVI is the cause.
Anyway I think I'm done with messing with getting to 1920x1200 now and I'lll stick with 1920x1080.
Thanks!
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This is also very interesting.
Are you saying that your 1920x1200 Dell display, when set to 1920x1080, istead of stretching 1080 pixels to 1200, adds 120 pixels at the bottom and as a result of this displays all icons etc. correctly?
Dell U2412M (1920x1200), for example, stretches everything and is unusable.
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This is also very interesting.
Are you saying that your 1920x1200 Dell display, when set to 1920x1080, istead of stretching 1080 pixels to 1200, adds 120 pixels at the bottom and as a result of this displays all icons etc. correctly?
Dell U2412M (1920x1200), for example, stretches everything and is unusable.
I'd not thought about it before, but everything certainly looks fine and not stretched. You can see in the screenshot in my previous post.
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Tested another nice looking display today with both kind of Minis.
Fujitsu 22" B22W-6 LED
Native display resolution - 1680 x 1050 @60Hz (16:10)
TN type panel.
LED backlight.
VGA + DVI + Display Port inputs.
v8 ROM
1. DVI to VGA, ATI RockHopper2 Driver, both models - black screen.
2. DVI to VGA, ATI Via Driver, both models - max resolution, acceleration works.
Display is recognized correctly as B22W-6 LED
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=14122)
3. DVI to DVI, ATI Via Driver, both models. This is very strange!
Native resolution is displayed in Monitors control panel, but you either can not select it (I forgot which model it was), or, if you select it, you get garbled display.
If you select some other resolution, the display gets stretched.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=14124)
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=14126)
4. DVI to DVI, ATI RockHopper2 Driver, 10,2 model - native resolution is not listed!
If you select any other resolution you get either garbled or stretched display.
(The screenshot looks ok because it is a screenshot. One has to photograph the screen to see the effect).
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=14128)
5. DVI to DVI, ATI RockHopper2 Driver, 10,1 model - black screen.
It's worth noting that this display has the same resolution as 20" Apple Cinema Display, but it seems that, as soon as we approach 22" and larger displays, all sorts of problems start to pop up.
In OSX Leopard both Mini models work fine with this display on any port.
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I have done expensive experimentation with many monitors and adapters and so forth.
I'll keep it simple:
WHAT WORKS
DVI-I Adapter -> VGA -> VGA Monitor port
DVI-I Adapter -> VGA -> VGA to HDMI -> HDMI Monitor port or KVM port
WHAT DOESN'T WORK
DVI-D direct cable
DVI-D any adapter
NOTES
DVI-I direct cable may work.
It appears the digital pins on the DVI port on the mini are not active hence the above methods working while DVI-D does not.
HDMI Solution
BENFEI VGA to HDMI Adapter, 1080P Converter with Audio from Computer/Laptop VGA Source to HDMI TV/Monitor
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07K14NR8P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07K14NR8P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
This works great with modern monitors, even works with my 4K monitor from several G4 towers and mini. No lag.
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Samsung 20" SyncMaster 203B
Native display resolution - 1400 x 1050 @60Hz
TN type panel.
CCFL backlight.
VGA + DVI inputs.
v8 ROM, 10,1 and 10,2 Minis.
1. DVI to VGA, ATI Via Driver, both models - max resolution, acceleration works.
2. DVI to DVI, ATI Via Driver, both models - max resolution, acceleration works.
3. DVI to VGA, ATI RockHopper2 Driver, both models - black screen.
4. DVI to DVI, ATI RockHopper2 Driver, 10,1 model - black screen.
5. DVI to DVI, ATI RockHopper2 Driver, 10,2 model - native resolution is not listed!
If you select any other resolution you get either garbled display or the display complains that the signal is "not optimum" and switches itself off.
Picture below taken shortly before that moment.
(http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7048.0;attach=14136)
6. OSX Leopard - both Mini models work fine with this display on any port.
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The garbled display you're seeing is what I have also been seeing on my Dell 4K. When you install the RockHopper driver which extensions on the base v9 image are you disabling (i.e. replacing)?
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Is the garbled display you're referring to by any chance missing every other vertical line?
I have a 1.5GHz 64MB VRAM G4 Mac Mini with the v9 image installed on it connected via a DVI converter (passive) to HDMI to a 1440p Philips 246B1. If put to 1920x1080p60, I only see every other vertical line, which makes it difficult but not impossible to open the Display settings. When set to 1280x960p60 (if I recall correctly), all is absolutely fine and dandy.
I'm betting on the adapter to HDMI not playing ball, but I don't have any DVI displays around... (Why did I sell my DVI to ADC adapter???) Is it wise to look for VGA to HDMI (active) or maybe look for a compatible DVI adapter? I'm hoping to keep a dual boot with Tiger or Leopard working.
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No.
Example of garbled can be seen in attachment to this post:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=7048.msg55340#msg55340
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No.
Example of garbled can be seen in attachment to this post:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=7048.msg55340#msg55340
Apologies, for some reason that hadn't registered with me. I have looked at the images, and it seems to me to be the same here. The horizontal lines all seem present for what I can see, it's an issue with the vertical ones. Maybe not every other vertical line, but sets of them.
What I've noticed now is that if I use two adapters (Mac Mini DVI > DVI/VGA Splitter > DVI/HDMI Converter) I get the garbled display. Just the converter, I get no display. Must be some part in that splitter then which the converter likes. I'll see if I can find some different adapters (passive and/or active) to test.
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Greetings, I just joined the forums. I have a 1.5ghz mini running MacOS 9.2.2. I only just saw this thread. My method of dealing with the finnicky display resolution compatibility is to use a cheap HDMI scaler I got from Amazon. They list them as SCART to HDMI scalers, but they also can do HDMI to HDMI just fine too. I'm not using it as a scaler so much as I'm using it to force signal compatibility, so MacOS can output to the display properly. Before using it the screen fonts looked a jumbled mess at 1920x1080. Putting the scaler in-between the display and mini, now MacOS 9.2.2 will see 1920 x 1080, 25Hz in the Monitor control panel and I can successfully use it. The scaler is set to "Source: HDMI", "Input: 1080i@50Hz" and "Output: 1920x1080@50Hz". I'm assuming the MacOS 9 sees the scaler 1080i@50Hz setting as 1920x1080@25Hz, as that is what shows in the Display control panel.
Search "Scart Hdmi to Hdmi Video Converter Box 1080p Scaler" on Amazon and you'll see a few different options around $30. This is a box I had sitting around, because I used it with my IIgs previously, which classically had the issue with finnicky 15Hz compatibility issues, so I knew the box could see weird Hz settings and translate them to something most displays can see. Posting this because I thought the information would be useful. Enjoy.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4553/XxW54B.jpg)
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Dear SimVU,
This is an awesome post !
I am embarrassed to say that I did not know this box even existed...
This will help many that are using old tech, thanks for explaining the details.
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Dear SimVU,
This is an awesome post !
I am embarrassed to say that I did not know this box even existed...
This will help many that are using old tech, thanks for explaining the details.
Happy to be of help. I'm a bit odd in that I like to try troubleshooting things from a few different angles and don't always take the well traveled path in the process. Wasn't sure how my input was going to be received, because it deviates a bit off rails from what the original post's intent is.
Anyways, it's good to be using MacOS 9 again. It's literally been 20 years for me since I touched it, but the nostalgia is very much there for me. Back then I was a production artist that did prepress and design in the Adobe suite -- Illustrator and Photoshop with some Quark XPress. Also, using forums like this is also nostalgia because I used to forum mod for EVGA forums and my own software product forums too. It's just been awhile on all of this for me. The exploration of getting MacOS 9 running in a modern era has been intriguing so far for me. ;D
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I have done expensive experimentation with many monitors and adapters and so forth.
I'll keep it simple:
WHAT WORKS
DVI-I Adapter -> VGA -> VGA Monitor port
DVI-I Adapter -> VGA -> VGA to HDMI -> HDMI Monitor port or KVM port
WHAT DOESN'T WORK
DVI-D direct cable
DVI-D any adapter
NOTES
DVI-I direct cable may work.
It appears the digital pins on the DVI port on the mini are not active hence the above methods working while DVI-D does not.
HDMI Solution
BENFEI VGA to HDMI Adapter, 1080P Converter with Audio from Computer/Laptop VGA Source to HDMI TV/Monitor
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07K14NR8P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07K14NR8P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
This works great with modern monitors, even works with my 4K monitor from several G4 towers and mini. No lag.
I haven't had any problems using my mac mini G4 on a variety of modern displays using both a passive DVI-D-to-HDMI adapter and a passive DVI-D to HDMI cable. The digital pins on the DVI port work fine, I'm pretty sure that your mac is just broken or misconfigured.
Beyond that, if you use a modern retro video scaler like a RetroTINK 4K, you can use the mac mini on any modern display at any resolution (well, up to 1920x1200 at 60 Hz or any other resolution with similar bandwidth requirements) with very sharp or even integer scaling. You may need to tweak the EDID file on the RT4K to get certain resolutions working. The RT4K's VGA input works fine for this too, but there's no reason to use it instead of DVI/HDMI from the mac mini into the RT4K's HDMI input, avoid the vagaries of analog video sampling.
A 4K monitor gets you the most flexibility since common classic mac resolutions will be very sharp with bilinear sharp scaling (nearest neightbour scale to closest integer scaled resolution, then bilinear scale the rest of the way), but even with a 1440p display you can integer scale 480p and 720p and still get decently sharp results for 800x600 and acceptable results for 1024x768.
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Table on first page updated.
My favourite display for Mac Mini G4 now is 19" Fujitsu B19-7. White, stylish looking, goes well with the Mini.
IPS panel, decent color gamut, LED backlight, no fading CCFL tubes. No problems with any of the models.
These were available on fleabay for as low as 25 a pop a few months ago. Bought myself five. :D
https://www.fujitsu.com/hk/products/computing/pc/ap/display/b19-7-led/
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I have done expensive experimentation with many monitors and adapters and so forth.
I'll keep it simple:
WHAT WORKS
DVI-I Adapter -> VGA -> VGA Monitor port
DVI-I Adapter -> VGA -> VGA to HDMI -> HDMI Monitor port or KVM port
WHAT DOESN'T WORK
DVI-D direct cable
DVI-D any adapter
NOTES
DVI-I direct cable may work.
It appears the digital pins on the DVI port on the mini are not active hence the above methods working while DVI-D does not.
HDMI Solution
BENFEI VGA to HDMI Adapter, 1080P Converter with Audio from Computer/Laptop VGA Source to HDMI TV/Monitor
www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07K14NR8P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07K14NR8P/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
This works great with modern monitors, even works with my 4K monitor from several G4 towers and mini. No lag.
I haven't had any problems using my mac mini G4 on a variety of modern displays using both a passive DVI-D-to-HDMI adapter and a passive DVI-D to HDMI cable. The digital pins on the DVI port work fine, I'm pretty sure that your mac is just broken or misconfigured.
Beyond that, if you use a modern retro video scaler like a RetroTINK 4K, you can use the mac mini on any modern display at any resolution (well, up to 1920x1200 at 60 Hz or any other resolution with similar bandwidth requirements) with very sharp or even integer scaling. You may need to tweak the EDID file on the RT4K to get certain resolutions working. The RT4K's VGA input works fine for this too, but there's no reason to use it instead of DVI/HDMI from the mac mini into the RT4K's HDMI input, avoid the vagaries of analog video sampling.
A 4K monitor gets you the most flexibility since common classic mac resolutions will be very sharp with bilinear sharp scaling (nearest neightbour scale to closest integer scaled resolution, then bilinear scale the rest of the way), but even with a 1440p display you can integer scale 480p and 720p and still get decently sharp results for 800x600 and acceptable results for 1024x768.
$750.00?
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Just noting that, if you can, you should avoid going from DVI to VGA to HDMI, and just go DVI to HDMI if at all possible.
Adding analog VGA to the mix complicates things and can introduce refresh rates that your display (or scaler) can't handle, needlessly. (Even besides VGA being more electrically noisy and gives a poorer quality picture). The Mini's DVI output rate is probably better suited from the start.
With that said, straight DVI to HDMI scalers can be more expensive, unless your display directly handles it (with the right passive cable/adapter as noted above). Even with that, the Mini's rate may be too low for your display and you'd then need a scaler.
DVI to VGA is dirt cheap with a small adapter, and there are a LOT of cheap VGA to HDMI boxes/thingies out there (of WILDLY varying quality). So, understandable, if cost is an issue, you may want to go that way!
You do (hopefully) sometimes get what you pay for though. I use this one, NOT cheap, to connect my B&W G3 to my TV. I have cheaper ones that just don't do (scale) a high enough rate (or don't understand the Rage 128 card's low rate, I haven't checked):
https://www.amazon.in/dp/B0CL7SL128/ref=cm_sw_r_as_gl_apa_gl_i_4C27MRWT26G2T9EDMNVX
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Adding analog VGA to the mix complicates things and can introduce refresh rates that your display (or scaler) can't handle, needlessly. (Even besides VGA being more electrically noisy and gives a poorer quality picture).
that´s correct, and you can put a direct VGA to VGA connection on that list.
at 1920*1200 on a samsung SM 2443 my 1.25 and 1.4´s work technically ok (the 1st gen minis are not so picky with monitors), but the image has an unbearable zebra stripes effect because the VGA port of the mini simply not provides enough power.
all desktop macs (GF4, Radeon, Radeon PCI) can serve that same setup fine (same cables, same monitors)
using the mini´s DVI instead (the monitors also have a DVI input) everything is fine and the picture is really good.
(i assume that story with the 400$ adapter must be a joke)
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Cheese and Crackers!
Huge apologies about $400 adapter...I think someone in India (see the Amazon reviews) is trying to make a buck by pulling a fast one reselling those.
Although that LOOKS exactly like the adapter I love and use, mine has a "FOINNEX" brand name on it...looking THAT up in Amazon shows this:
https://www.amazon.com/FOINNEX-Converter-Computer-Projector-Portable/dp/B07121Y1Z3/ref=sr_1_1
Selling for the grand royal sum of $13.99!
I thought I had the right link...and actually thought, just maybe, that I HAD actually paid $400 for mine?!? I've got a cabinet of misc cables and adapters I've accumulated over the years, and have been known to buy things knowing I'll need them someday...and forget how much they cost as time goes on...
With all that said, I will vouch for this tiny $13.99 thing handling situations, specifically my B&W G3, that pretty metal boxes that have certainly cost more (how much? don't ask me!) choke on.
Only bad thing about it is the usb-for-power socket is not high quality and bent a bit, but bent back. So, yes, when you handle it, it absolutely feels more like a $13.99 piece of equipment!
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Hi there beside the problem that I can't get OS9 and OSX on the internal HDD working in dual boot I encountered that my 20" CinemaDisplay 1680x1050? displays strange moving lines in dark areas. I can't see them in OSX or in Morphos, only in OS9, regardless if I use a very early OS9 Version or the very latest. Is it a common failure?
Thx!
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forget dual boot, use external volume for OSX.
you use 1.33 / 1.5 model? they are the ones which have trouble with monitor resolutions.
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Can we just start putting all info like this about specific models in a huge spreadsheet?
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Can we just start putting all info like this about specific models in a huge spreadsheet?
@ssp3 has been doing that, you can see it in the front page (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=7048.0).
The model ending with ,2 corresponds to the 1.33 GHz and 1.5GHz models.
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@ssp3 has been doing that, you can see it in the front page (http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=7048.0).
Yep. Last update was 3 days ago. ;)
Still, there are some that need to be added - another Fujitsu 19" and a decent 19" by HP.
(You can not imagine how many displays I have bought and tested..)
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A question to creators of ROM file for Mac Mini or those in the know: why are there two instances of 'PowerMac10,1 PowerMac10,2' and several other duplicate lines in the boot script in ROM file? Was it done on purpose? If so, why?
Oops! The patch script got run twice on that ROM. Not sure it it was me.
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I have a question about Apple monitors. I just ordered a 1.5 mac mini, and I was wondering what monitor to pair with it.
So I was wondering about the Apple Cinema Displays. Do all of them that have the DVI connection run under OS 9? I'm specifically thinking of the 23 inch 2004 Apple Cinema Display; which allegedly requires Jaguar. Does it run under OS 9? I know the 30 inch doesn't run.
Looking at https://web.archive.org/web/20060427015054/http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300652 it shows lots of compatible and lots that are not... but do the ones listed as "compatible" also mean they are compatible under System 9?
Thanks!
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I have a question about Apple monitors. I just ordered a 1.5 mac mini, and I was wondering what monitor to pair with it.
So I was wondering about the Apple Cinema Displays. Do all of them that have the DVI connection run under OS 9? I'm specifically thinking of the 23 inch 2004 Apple Cinema Display; which allegedly requires Jaguar. Does it run under OS 9? I know the 30 inch doesn't run.
Looking at https://web.archive.org/web/20060427015054/http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300652 it shows lots of compatible and lots that are not... but do the ones listed as "compatible" also mean they are compatible under System 9?
Thanks!
I don't see why an older Apple Cinema Display with a DVI connector would not be compatible with Mac OS 9. Monitors made in 2025 are compatible with Mac OS 9. Now, there may not be drivers for Mac OS 9 for any special features in a more modern monitor but just for display output? It should be okay bearing in mind that there may be resolution incompatibilities as documented in this thread. Especially on the "silent upgrade" machines like your 1.5.
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Hi Dave, I think you are the one I just bought the 1.5 mac mini from! It showed up today, very nice packaging.
I have a random Wal-Mart monitor that I will try a dvi-hdmi converter with. Otherwise I guess I'll have to order the Apple Cinema Display? What's the best solution, right now, for these silent upgrade mac minis?
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personally i enjoy 5:4 Sony SDM Series TFT Active Matrix LCD monitors
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What's the best solution, right now, for these silent upgrade mac minis?
It's all in my table in the first post.
The safest bet for all Minis is any 17" or 19" display. If the color stability over longer period of time is important, then look for display in that range with LED backlight. My personal favourite is Fujitsu B19-7. Not the largest gamut in the world, but for non critical work (high end photography, pre-press) it is very nice.
For larger than 19" sizes, consult my table or ask other users.
As to the Apple displays, those with CCFL backlight, if they were used extensively, might be faded out and not reproducing colors correctly. The same also applies to other displays with CCFL backlight.
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Hi Dave, I think you are the one I just bought the 1.5 mac mini from! It showed up today, very nice packaging.
I have a random Wal-Mart monitor that I will try a dvi-hdmi converter with. Otherwise I guess I'll have to order the Apple Cinema Display? What's the best solution, right now, for these silent upgrade mac minis?
Hi Vanceone,
Yes, the converter should be fine. Although the converters vary in quality. I have found some work better than others. Also, be sure to try a lower resolution. I also have a couple extra Apple DVI-VGA adapters. If you have VGA potential on a monitor you own let me know and I'm happy to send you one, just PM me. No charge of course since you bought the computer :)
Best,
Dave
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Good work!
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So there's no solution yet for the silently upgraded Mini? I plugged in my recently aquired 1.5Ghz Mini and installed Mac OS 9 as well as Tiger on it. In Tiger I can use the native resolution of my monitor just fine (3440x1440), but in OS9 it's a hot mess to say the least. I'm stuck at 1280x720 right now. Anything larger "wide screen" is just a mess.
A bit sad, since I bought this mini to replace my TiBook as my main coding and OS9 machine (the MDD is for studio use only more or less). The graphics issues makes it more or less unusable for me right now.
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So I got it working, but without hardware acceleration. Booted into 1280x720, opened up the monitors control panel, went into the extensions folder and removed all the ATi extensions. Set the monitors resolution to 3440x1440 and got the flickery insanity I got the last time. Managed to navigate to the Special --> Restart menu item and upon reboot I got a working, native 3440x1440 on my Mac Mini G4 1.5Ghz in Mac OS 9, of course without hardware acceleration.
And oh, I had to "downgrade" to the v8 ROM since the "wrong" drivers for my mini are integrated into the v9 ROM.
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Just see how much you can do with 3440x1440 in Mac OS 9 ;)
Getting hardware acceleration working on this machine would be awesome!
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Just see how much you can do with 3440x1440 in Mac OS 9 ;)
This is nuts. Can you still read the text? :D
Getting hardware acceleration working on this machine would be awesome!
For that, I think, someone skilled in the trade have to decompile the ATI driver for OSX and recompile it for OS9.
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Indeed. I have never messed with drivers, so I'm not really up for the task myself. Hopefully someone who knows can shime in :)
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Do you still have different resolutions and color depths in the control strip? If so, then at least the ndrv is working.
You can boot OS 9 without an ndrv and it can use the Open Firmware frame buffer to do graphics but you can't change the color depth or the resolution.
For example, I have an Nvidia 7800 GT Mac Edition in my Power Mac G5 Quad. I can put it in my B&W G3 (with a PCIe adapter) and boot Mac OS 9 with it even though it has no drivers. The Open Firmware driver creates the frame buffer and Mac OS 9 can use that. It's similar to EFI Intel Macs that can use the EFI frame buffer created for a GPU that is too new for the current version of Mac OS X.
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Do you still have different resolutions and color depths in the control strip? If so, then at least the ndrv is working.
You can boot OS 9 without an ndrv and it can use the Open Firmware frame buffer to do graphics but you can't change the color depth or the resolution.
Yes, I get all the resolutions and I have working hardware acceleration, but most of the resolutions are "broken" (see this YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqtMiPI8oM8)). 1280x1024, 1280x720 and 800x600 seems to be working fine, but others like my monitors native resolution as well as 1920x1080 are flickering just like in the video. Removing the ATi drivers from the extensions folder and using the V8 ROM to only enable the frame buffer works just fine though and is how I use it right now.
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I have at my disposal three adapters - two dual link DVI-D and one single link DVI-D.
I also have two HDMI cables - one thicker and one thinner. Where they come from and who made them, I have no idea.
With all possible permutations:
* 2 dual link adapters
* 1 dual link and 1 single link adapter
* single link at Mac end
* single link at display end
I got normal picture (given the U2412M oddities) with thicker HDMI cable.
Dual Link Adapters are just Single Link with unused pins because HDMI is always Single Link.
If you have a GPU that outputs Dual Link DVI (pixel clock > 165 MHz) then you need a Dual Link DVI display or a Dual Link DVI to DisplayPort Adapter to use such display modes.
https://gefen.com/product/dual-link-dvi-to-mini-dp-converter/
For example, My Nvidia GeForce 7800 GT Mac Edition can output 4K30 or 1440p60 using the Gefen adapter.
To get a Dual Link DVI to HDMI adapter for pixel clocks between 165 MHz and 330 MHz, you need a Dual Link DVI to DisplayPort Adapter and a DisplayPort to HDMI 1.4 or Later adapter.
Of course, Power Mac Mac minis are all limited to Single Link DVI.
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Just see how much you can do with 3440x1440 in Mac OS 9 ;)
Getting hardware acceleration working on this machine would be awesome!
Not sure how 3440x1440 is possible. What display? What refresh rate? What GPU? What connection type/cable/adapter?
I think the refresh rate would have to be 30Hz to get below the 165 MHz max Single Link DVI timing.
SwitchResX can show the timing info in OS X. Maybe the display has an onscreen menu to show the input signal resolution/refresh rate? Open Firmware might have a command to list all the display modes.
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Yea, it’s 30Hz but it works fine as a bare framebuffer and it works with hardware acceleration in Tiger. It’s the modified drivers in OS9 that makes it all flickery.
The GPU is whatever the ”silent upgrade” mini has. My machine has 64mb VRAM.
I'll check the timing info with SwitchResX when I get home :)
The monitor is a LG 34UM95 connected to the Mini with a DVI to HDMI cable. https://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/ultrawide/34um95-p/ (https://www.lg.com/uk/monitors/ultrawide/34um95-p/?srsltid=AfmBOopXBsH3E7wEv1ArpfVVTB4dYE1gRUBSs2abHAb6vkGk7BUrau0S)
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Exported my monitors EDID using SwitchResX and attached it to this post.
Also tried putting the ATi extensions back into my Extensions folder and tried all my monitors resolutions using SwitchRes in Mac OS 9. The common denominator is the 30Hz modes (see attached screenshot). All of them gives me a flickering display like in the video I linked to above. All of the resolutions work fine in Tiger on the same machine. It's almost as 30Hz is not really 30Hz outputted when the drivers are active.
Writing this in 1280x1024 works fine and I have hardware acceleration, but the resolution looks really stretched and strange on my monitor. Oh well, what to do.
This is what System Profiler in Tiger says about my GPU:
ATI Radeon 9200:
Chipset Model: ATY,RV280
Type: Display
Bus: AGP
VRAM (Total): 64 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x5962
Revision ID: 0x0001
ROM Revision: 113-xxxxx-134
Displays:
34UM95:
Resolution: 3440 x 1440 @ 30 Hz
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Not Supported
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
Rotation: Supported
Television: Yes
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Knezzen, you're expecting way too much from the good old Mini and OS9. In OS9 years nobody knew anything about ultra-wide 3440 x 1440 displays. Get a 19 incher and you'll be fine ;D
I'm kidding, of course. As I said before, we need somebody who understands this driver stuff and can decompile/recompile it.
I've tried to understand what's going on there and spent some time steering at various ATI drivers in disassembler, but that was a bit over my head, so I gave up.
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Exported my monitors EDID using SwitchResX and attached it to this post.
Which version of Mac OS X did you use SwitchResX with?
Also tried putting the ATi extensions back into my Extensions folder and tried all my monitors resolutions using SwitchRes in Mac OS 9. The common denominator is the 30Hz modes (see attached screenshot). All of them gives me a flickering display like in the video I linked to above. All of the resolutions work fine in Tiger on the same machine. It's almost as 30Hz is not really 30Hz outputted when the drivers are active.
That OS 9 screen shot has many modes that are not in the EDID. Where do they come from?
These are the modes in the EDID (sorted by pixel clock):
25.175000 MHz 640x480 59.940476 Hz 4:3 31.469 kHz DMT 0x04:
25.175000 MHz 640x480 59.940476 Hz 4:3 31.469 kHz VIC 1 :
27.000000 MHz 720x480 59.940060 Hz 3:2 31.469 kHz DTD 5 :
27.000000 MHz 720x480 59.940060 Hz 16:9 31.469 kHz VIC 3 :
40.000000 MHz 800x600 60.316541 Hz 4:3 37.879 kHz DMT 0x09:
65.000000 MHz 1024x768 60.003840 Hz 4:3 48.363 kHz DMT 0x10:
74.250000 MHz 1280x720 60.000000 Hz 16:9 45.000 kHz DMT 0x55:
74.250000 MHz 1280x720 60.000000 Hz 16:9 45.000 kHz DTD 4 :
74.250000 MHz 1280x720 60.000000 Hz 16:9 45.000 kHz VIC 4 :
81.624000 MHz 1152x864 60.000000 Hz 4:3 53.700 kHz GTF :
83.500000 MHz 1280x800 59.810326 Hz 16:10 49.702 kHz DMT 0x1c:
108.000000 MHz 1280x1024 60.019740 Hz 5:4 63.981 kHz DMT 0x23:
108.000000 MHz 1600x900 60.000000 Hz 16:9 60.000 kHz DMT 0x53:
146.250000 MHz 1680x1050 59.954250 Hz 16:10 65.290 kHz DMT 0x3a:
148.500000 MHz 1920x1080 60.000000 Hz 16:9 67.500 kHz DMT 0x52:
148.500000 MHz 1920x1080 60.000000 Hz 16:9 67.500 kHz VIC 16 :
157.750000 MHz 3440x1440 29.992775 Hz 43:18 43.819 kHz DTD 2 :
185.580000 MHz 2560x1080 59.999534 Hz 64:27 66.659 kHz DTD 3 :
265.250000 MHz 3440x1440 49.986808 Hz 43:18 73.681 kHz DTD 1 :
Of course, you won't be able to use modes > 165 MHz with DVI single link unless it's actually HDMI 1.4.
Writing this in 1280x1024 works fine and I have hardware acceleration, but the resolution looks really stretched and strange on my monitor. Oh well, what to do.
Your monitor should have an on screen menu option to use "square pixels" or "1:1" or "aspect" or "pillar box" or something.
The only 30Hz mode in the EDID is:
DTD 2: 3440x1440 29.992775 Hz 43:18 43.819 kHz 157.750000 MHz (800 mm x 335 mm)
Hfront 48 Hsync 32 Hback 80 Hpol P
Vfront 3 Vsync 10 Vback 8 Vpol N
Try some tests in Mac OS X. Duplicate the mode but change the H/V sync polarity from P/N to P/P, N/N, and N/P to see if they all work or if one of them reproduces the problem in Mac OS 9.
I don't think the Mac OS 9 version of SwitchRes lets you create custom timings? If not, then one would probably have to use some Display Manager APIs or call the graphics driver directly (there is cscGetDetailedTiming and cscSetDetailedTiming status and control calls). What is AVComponents.h? Probably something to do with the Monitor & Sounds control panel?
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Which version of Mac OS X did you use SwitchResX with?
Mac OS X 10.4.11.
That OS 9 screen shot has many modes that are not in the EDID. Where do they come from?
No idea. Might be some kind of calculated max frequency from the GPU? It's the resolution I get in Tiger as well as when running without ATi extensions in Mac OS 9 (using only the frame buffer). I haven't modified anything. Booted the machine and there it was, 3440x1440@30Hz.
Your monitor should have an on screen menu option to use "square pixels" or "1:1" or "aspect" or "pillar box" or something.
Sure, but that doesn't solve the problem. There's obviously something "wrong" or not "optimal" with the modified ATi drivers in Mac OS 9 compared to how the machine acts with the same monitor running with the Tiger drivers in Tiger and without any drivers at all in Mac OS 9. Setting the monitor to 1:1 solves the stretching screen, but not the root problem.
Try some tests in Mac OS X. Duplicate the mode but change the H/V sync polarity from P/N to P/P, N/N, and N/P to see if they all work or if one of them reproduces the problem in Mac OS 9.
You might be on to something here! I'll give that a go later today :)
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There's obviously something "wrong" or not "optimal" with the modified ATi drivers in Mac OS 9 compared to how the machine acts with the same monitor running with the Tiger drivers in Tiger and without any drivers at all in Mac OS 9.
Knezzen, you're barking up the wrong tree. There's nothing wrong with modified ATi drivers in Mac OS 9, it's just that the driver (hacked ATI extension) responsible for acceleration (ATY,RockHopper2) is from 10.3.7 and it knows nothing about higher resolution displays.
Several people, myself included, tried to hack/copy&paste the same driver from 10.4.x into OS9 extension, but we all failed. It does not work in OS9. I've also compared disassembled 10.3.7 and 10.4.x drivers and tried several mods on newer one based on my intuition, but at the end I concluded that the driver stuff is not my thing.
Search forum for posts by darthnvader, all the details are there. And you're welcome to try it yourself. All RockHopper2 drivers from OSX could be found on ELNs Github.
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Yeah, you're probably right.
To get some kind of reference point I connected the monitor to my PowerBook G4 Titanium 1Ghz (which has a ATi Radeon 9000 64Mb) using the same DVI to HDM cable as I've used with my Mini. Running the PowerBook in "Clamshell mode" I get the same results as I did with the Mini, but without the distorted 3440x1440@30Hz resolution being available in Mac OS 9. If I disable the ATi drivers in Mac OS 9 I get 3440x1440 unaccelerated (framebuffer) and with the ATi drivers loaded I get up to 1920x1200 in the monitors control panel. 3440x1440@30Hz works with full acceleration in OS X 10.4.11 of course, just like with the mini.
Well, that's it I guess. Putting my hope towards the future. We'll see what happens :)