Author Topic: Multi-boot Single-drive OS9+X FW800 MDD  (Read 3519 times)

Offline FBz

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • Fury-Fungus FdB/FBz
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 138
Multi-boot Single-drive OS9+X FW800 MDD
« on: December 26, 2022, 10:04:04 AM »
FINALLY… succeeded in installing Unsupported OS 9 on a FW800 MDD with Tiger AND Leopard - on a multi-OS-bootable, multi-partitioned, single HDD (greater than 128 GB in size) without the use of another Mac / Firewire Target disk mode / et cetera. And all accomplished with only the FW800 MDD itself, the Unsupported Installer Disk and a USB stick with Drive Setup 2.1 on it.

AND… Date & Time remains stable / accurate between boots of each OS with this approach.

Stop reading now if you’ve already accomplished this OR if you’re well-acquainted with these FIVE pages:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,762.msg10461.html#msg10461

Here again, the “Unsupported” installer DL: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2143.0.html


Onward…

 Boot with Unsupported Installer disk & insert USB stick.
 Quit SimpleText, quit Drive Setup 1.9.2 and open Drive Setup 2.1 from the USB stick.
*Sometimes DS 2.1 doesn’t display after opening / go to Finder and drag down to make it active.
 Here on a 300 GB HDD - Jumper set to  Cable Select. Darkened drive = USB Stick with Drive Setup 2.1.

 

After first single partition format above… choose Custom Setup.



And partition the HDD. (All partitions here well under 190 GB.)



Resulting in 3 partitions: Untitled, Untitled 2 and Untitled 3.



DO NOT INSTALL OS 9 AT THIS TIME!

All dependent upon initial erase, format and partitioning… with Drive Setup 2.1 / to achieve partitions greater than 128 GB with OS 9 drivers intact. Then without installing OS 9, shut down the machine and reboot with the earliest / oldest version of OS X installer on HD partition “Untitled 2” (saving the first “Untitled” partition for “last-installed” OS 9, later). This preserves the Extended Plus format on the first “Untitled” partition, untouched and ready for OS 9 - AFTER you’ve installed all versions of OS X that you might want.

I chose to install Tiger on “Untitled 2”. [If you also intend to install Leopard, save that for “Untitled 3” - after the installation of Tiger.]

And here, rather than using Disk Utility from the available early, drop down menu of the Tiger Installer to format “Untitled 2” as Mac OS Extended / Journaled…  elected instead to choose the later Erase and Install option (instead of Install for first time, Archive and install, etc.). Select Options when you get to this screen below.



NOTE the selection of Erase and Install allows selection of Mac OS Extended (Journaled) for formatting.



After “OK” above, you can choose to Customize your install, omitting or including some things.



Your choices.



After clicking Install, there’s always this DVD check… which I skip to save time.
Both OS X installs do individually take a very long time to complete. Patience.



A very good guide for installation of Leopard here: https://www.lifewire.com/installing-os-x-10-5-leopard-erase-method-2260320 (Similar to installation of Tiger - but doesn’t cover the necessary disabling of Spotlight.) After installation and Tiger reboot, immediately turn off everything in Spotlight and drag all other partitions’ disk icons to the Privacy option window of Spotlight Prefs. (I do this even before >and after< renaming of the various partitions.



Everything is pre-checked above, when you first reboot into Tiger after install. You can re-check items that
you’d like to include, after all of your installs. Below, under Spotlight Privacy… untitled partitions eventually
get renamed: Nine, Tiger and Leopard?



Now, after the Tiger install and the disabling of Spotlight and any other initial Tiger pref setups - perform the Leopard install using the same erase and install approach for the targeted “Untitled 3” partition. Of course you might only wish to install one version of OS X and if so, you still need to install the Unsupported OS 9 on the first, “Untitled” partition… AFTER installation of your single chosen OS X version.

INSERT:
IF you DO install Leopard, don’t forget to disable (turn off) Time Machine upon reboot, before installing OS 9… if you’d like to possibly avoid the dreaded BTree errors. (See GaryN’s post here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2830.msg18258.html#msg18258 and read through that thread  for more info on the importance of this.) I simply don’t use Time Machine but make absolutely certain that it is OFF after rebooting your fresh Leopard Install. Read Gary’s post!!!

Installing Leopard first (when you also intend to install Tiger or some earlier version of OS X)… does not work and the machine simply won’t allow it. (I tried many, many times.) Multiple versions of OS X must be installed in an “age sequential” manner - oldest before newest. Untitled 2 before Untitled 3.

Lastly, and AFTER installing Tiger (and Leopard?) - then reboot with the Unsupported OS 9 Installer disk and install OS 9 on that first partition (“Untitled”) using the alt / option key to boot the disk. NO need to reformat or re-install OS 9 driver on this partition with Drive Setup 2.1 because this was done first before any other installs and should be fine as long as you’ve kept it untouched. AND IF you’ve set your Date, Time and location in your OS X partition(s) it will display the same in OS 9 and any subsequent boots into OS X versions. Easy to select an OS X boot from OS 9 afterwards but OS 9 does not appear as a selection from within any OS X. Booting into OS 9 from X requires the alt / option key boot.

Again, this works for those that do not have another machine to pre-format, partition and install OS’s with… AND this can all be accomplished using only the FW 800 MDD…. installer disc(s) and a USB stick with Drive Setup 2.1 on it. AND while I have done this on two separate 300 GB HDDs, larger drives might also be used.

Now, may have to test this with another added drive afterwards (also attached to same ATA-100 cable) set as Cable Select too? But again, may need to format, partition, etc. this proposed 2nd drive with this first drive removed AND then add both back in together, AFTERwards?

This was all tested on a 1.42 GHz DP - FW800.
Drive Setup 2.1 file for USB stick attached below @ bottom.


ADDENDUM:
“I am so sorry, apparently the "boot" part of our install has the older drive setup 1.92 (even though our 9.22 image has the newer 2.1 version), so don't use the one on the root of the CD when you boot, instead double click our drive image and navigate to the Drive Setup 2.1, that one will see the whole hard drive past 128GB…”  -DieHard

So apparently, there is no need for the USB stick / Drive Setup 2.1. According to DieHard (quoted above) from this post: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6570.msg49372.html#msg49372 / He also mentions an alternative, possible use of MacTron’s Bootable Rescue CD & Disk Repair http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6570.msg49372.html#msg49372 (Refer to the above link for his post.) Thanks DieHard!

So now, seems that there are three ways to use / access Drive Setup 2.1. ;)
« Last Edit: December 27, 2022, 04:19:06 PM by FBz »

Offline FBz

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • Fury-Fungus FdB/FBz
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 138
Re: Multi-boot Single-drive OS9+X FW800 MDD
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2022, 05:44:13 PM »
Now that you’ve read through all of the info in the previous post… here’s some more info. (For those attempting the FW800 FUN.)

After you’ve closed the auto-open… SimpleText doc, SimpleText AND Drive Setup 1.9.2…

Here’s where to find Drive Setup 2.1 as mentioned by DieHard above and (and how to use it) from the Unsupported FW800 installer disc. (No need for added, bothersome USB sticks with DS 2.1 any more.)



Above shows the source (with disc mounted, already on a FW 800 MDD). Double-click that and you’ll get this…



Click Agree and if attempting this on a machine already OS 9 installed as I did… then you’ll get this:



Which might help explain the following, when I option-booted a FW800 w/ Unsupported disc (as it should be when following these instructions).

*Now screen images captured with an iPhone - no more nice, color screenshots!

After clicking Agree on the Disk Copy Software License:



SO, cilck OK… and get this.



I just clicked Skip and then this icon eventually mounted on the desktop.



Double-click on the above desktop icon and this window opens.



Open the Applications folder & then the Utilities folder.



There’s Drive Setup! (But it isn’t named 2.1 or 1.9.2)



Got / get Info?


So, that’s where you access Drive Setup 2.1 on the Unsupported disc. Double-click on the Drive Setup icon and format / partition like in the previous post - above this one.

NOW, this is where I believe that I screwed up before.

After doing all of the OS installs (as in the first post here) and disabled Spotlight (and I thought… Time Machine) when it came time to actually go back and finally install OS 9 - I selected “Restore in Place” (instead of… Erase “Nine” before restoring). Problem being that just as soon as I had rebooted the Leopard install for its’ initial setup (before installing OS 9) Time Machine had already *polled the pre-existing “Nine” partition before I could shut it off (and lock it). And because I did not select “Erase”… the damage already done by Time Machine was left untouched on that now OS 9 installed partition.

*Think that GaryN very aptly termed this a “death race”.

AND Disk FIrst Aid reported Invalid BTree Header errors on all four test drives that I had created that way.

(Think I’ve now fixed them with Norton.) I hope.

UPDATE:
See http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6641.msg49926.html#msg49926 on how to avoid these BTree problems!!!

Sooo, care to try your FW800 Luck with the Three OS approach? (Includes dirty-rotten-stinking Leopard with that vile Time Machine!)

Sure, I’ll get back to this (eventually) but for now… it’s up to you.



Had my mind stuck in the “you can’t erase a single partition under OS 9 without erasing the entire disk” mode. Well, with Drive Setup you can’t. But with Apple Software Restore (above) you can.

At this point I’d almost be happy enough having OS 9 and Tiger w/o Leopard (there’s no Time Machine in Tiger). But you still must deal with Spotlight.

And then, there’s always the Two-Drive approach!

Dear FW800 Fiends, do please report your findings. I am very tired. ;)

« Last Edit: January 02, 2023, 09:22:12 AM by FdB »

Offline GaryN

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1455
  • active member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Multi-boot Single-drive OS9+X FW800 MDD
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2022, 06:58:55 PM »
Once again, the mighty Fury roars!

Gotta hand it to-ya man. Will-power extraordinaire!!

Honestly, I don't think I would try this even with the step-by-step you posted…

Question is… will macdougy?

We'll stay tuned.

Offline FBz

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • Fury-Fungus FdB/FBz
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 138
Re: Multi-boot Single-drive OS9+X FW800 MDD
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2022, 07:11:45 PM »
Thanks Gary!

REALLY don’t like the FW800 machines here but these questions have come up so often that I thought - give it a go.

AND I wouldn’t blame Macdougy (or anyone else) going only for OS 9… and maybe Tiger.

BUT Leopard... IS A B*TCH!

Offline FBz

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • Fury-Fungus FdB/FBz
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 138
Re: Multi-boot Single-drive OS9+X FW800 MDD
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2023, 09:04:54 AM »
ALL IS NOT LOST…

Follow the procedures outlined from the first two posts under this topic, with one minor (but very important) additional step… to prevent BTree errors / problems with the OS 9 - installed partition.

AFTER the final installation (last) installation of OS 9 AND rebooting into OS 9 to set up your prefs, etc. DO NOT let the machine simply reboot into any OS X partition (Tiger or Leopard) afterwards, because doing so will allow Spotlight to index the OS 9 partition and that’s where (when and how)) those BTree problems are created.

INSTEAD / after installing OS 9 and then your initial setup of OS 9…

(1.) Select Tiger and or Leopard in OS 9’s Control Panels > Startup Disk to reboot into Tiger (or Leopard).

   (1)a. Can also be done with an alt / option key boot, after then selecting OS 9.

(2). Then press and hold the shift key as it begins to boot, for “Safe Boot”.


       
       Leopard “Safe Boot” screen shown here.

(3). THEN go into Spotlight prefs / Privacy and drag the OS 9 partition in there.

       

*Do the same Safe Boot procedure for Tiger AND Leopard - if you’ve installed both.


       
       Current state. The .fseventsd file seems now to be innocuous on the OS 9 partition.
       And maybe I should’ve made certain that Time Machine was OFF while Safe Booted.
       But .com.apple.timemachine.su files only appear above in the Tiger and Leopard partitions.



NOW, after any subsequent OS updates to Tiger & Leopard… those might also need to be Safe-Booted too. (OR maybe OS updated even before installing OS 9.) I don’t know, as I have only tested (so far) with Tiger 10.4.6 and Leopard 10.5 without updating them to 10.4.11 or 10.5.8 (yet).


I might eventually try the addition of a FW400 card after all of this - just to see if I can add some FW ports back for OS 9 in the FW800 MDD - but that’s another “adventure” for another day. AND quite likely I’ll go with only one OS X installation (Tiger OR Leopard).

Cheers! ;)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2023, 09:24:21 AM by FdB »

Offline DieHard

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2171
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 58
Re: Multi-boot Single-drive OS9+X FW800 MDD
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2023, 09:39:53 AM »
As always... excellent work FBz and Happy 2023 ! 

We should have mentioned going into safe mode in so many other posts that explain the spotlight and time machine issues with OS9; damn, makes it so much easier than a dog chasing it's tail in the multi-boot nightmare of figuring out which OS to boot to first.

Offline smilesdavis

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 619
  • New Member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 17
Re: Multi-boot Single-drive OS9+X FW800 MDD
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2023, 11:47:17 AM »
is there a selfinstalling image possible? :) for dumb musicians :S
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline FBz

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 606
  • Fury-Fungus FdB/FBz
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 138
Re: Multi-boot Single-drive OS9+X FW800 MDD
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2023, 12:03:54 PM »
is there a selfinstalling image possible? :) for dumb musicians :S
YES. If you only want OS 9... the link for that installer is in the first post above.
          http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2143.0.html

Want to also have a version of OSX? Well then, that's the point of this entire thread.


AND...
Thanks DieHard! A Very Happy New Year to you too.
(Und also to everyone else!)

Again, feel it important to mention that post by GaryN… and some of what is posted in that thread too - for more lockout possibilities and other options…
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2830.msg18258.html#msg18258

There’s also this too (for those wanting to fool around within OS X’s Terminal)…
http://blog.hostilefork.com/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/

BUT maybe now, the multi-boot FW800 MDDs can become more viable with OS 9?

(And, my thanks to IIO for being a sounding board in this effort.)

Offline GaryN

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1455
  • active member
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Multi-boot Single-drive OS9+X FW800 MDD
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2023, 01:32:54 PM »
There’s also this too (for those wanting to fool around within OS X’s Terminal)…
http://blog.hostilefork.com/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/

Wanting to fool around or not, that post should be required reading for all Mac users.
It's a really clear and concise description of what goes on in the volume headers.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 4103
  • just a number
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 244
Re: Multi-boot Single-drive OS9+X FW800 MDD
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2023, 06:50:15 AM »
oh now that i see this: do you know the app fseventer? it has its pitfalls, but might be of great help to track down what some service is doing on your disk.

to give you an idea: when you used it for certain things, you were strongly advised to turn spotlight off, because it can interfere (and crash your system since the fsevents logger is a deamon in OSX PPC - and it is single-client)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2023, 07:02:21 AM by IIO »
insert arbitrary signature here

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal