Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 461386 times)

Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1350 on: September 15, 2022, 01:44:52 AM »
the biggest problem with the mini i have is that it doesnt have a pci bus controller. there a way to add one? solder one on? because for professional use the mini would be perfect just a sound card that has word clock is hard to hook up with it.
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline teroyk

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1351 on: September 19, 2022, 07:36:45 AM »
the biggest problem with the mini i have is that it doesnt have a pci bus controller. there a way to add one? solder one on? because for professional use the mini would be perfect just a sound card that has word clock is hard to hook up with it.

Some Firewire sound "cards" has word clock...but question is is there any USB sound "cards" with word clock?

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1352 on: September 20, 2022, 05:51:02 AM »
i think most have. motu, digidesign, RME all have BNC clock in and out.
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Offline smilesdavis

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1353 on: September 20, 2022, 06:09:34 AM »
os9 compatible?
Looking for: Steinberg Cubase MAC Standard/Score v1-5 & Cubase Audio v1, Cubase Audio v2 for, Cubase Audio v3 for DAE/TDM => complete or in parts

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1354 on: September 20, 2022, 08:17:40 AM »
word clock was more around back in the days than it is today. i am not aware of interfaces which dont have it.
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Offline Metrophage

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1355 on: September 21, 2022, 02:57:37 PM »
Hey! It's me again, back to struggle with my borky systems!

I'd recently found my mini G4 1.42 again. It set up fine last time, but I had only a small drive to play with at the time so didn't make much use of it. Its optical drive is broken so IIRC I did the initial install in target disk mode.

So, I waited to long to buy an OWC SSD and didn't pay close attention to the fact that their current "Legacy" drives are only for desktop use. I ordered some generic low-profile SATA connverters for 44-pin IDE, but had a night of agonizing flakiness as installs would hang. Subsequent boots saw the new drive losing capacity and partitions. It started being seen by the system as 512GB, turned into 128GB, and eventually 7.9GB... So I'm guessing that this adaptor - which has no switches or jumpers - isn't adapting well enough for what the system expects. So I ordered a cheap NOS 160GB rotational drive instead.

Why I gravitated to the OWC was that it sounds like their drives are intended for use in systems which weren't initially available with SSDs, with better wear-leveling and garbage collection in the drive itself. I don't know how well that compares in practice, but that's a concern I'd had with using SSDs in my old macs.

So hopefully I'll set this up again soon with dual-boot 9.2/10.4 systems. The old X partition for using old NI Intakt and Kompakt sampler instruments and other ancient PPC stuff I have.

One detail I noticed is that Ross's CD does sort of boot from an external FireWire drive, but then it fails to load the image. I get the "missing drive" icon, but it's the OS 9 version from the CD. I'll probably make a USB stick to install everything next week or so when the drive arrives. Meanwhile I'm going to try to erase this 512GB OWC on my Linux box and maybe try it in my FW800 with the desktop-style adaptor it came with.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1356 on: September 21, 2022, 04:19:40 PM »
hey metro,
 
those generic plastic cases for M2 or NVME should work and might be the cheaper solution.
 
making an USB was on my to do list - but you know how it goes with those lists. i am sorting cables, PSUs and media since 5 days, it is incredible how much craps fits into a smll aparment.

if you find out how the USB install works let us know. :)
(but i believe it shoud be fine to copy the installed system, bless it, and burn it with toast to share.)
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Offline indibil

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1357 on: October 15, 2022, 06:51:50 AM »
Hello from Spain!!!

I have a Mac Mini G4 at 1.42GHz, and I have installed OS 9.2.2 through the ISO made for this purpose, but I would like to know how I can install OS 9.2.2 in Spanish on the Mac Mini G4.

I have the installation CD in Spanish, but the installation is not patched so that it works on the Mini. Is there any script that, once installed OS 9.2.2 in Spanish, can patch it to work on the Mini? Thanks.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1358 on: October 15, 2022, 05:31:06 PM »
this is a reasonable request.
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1359 on: October 16, 2022, 03:09:41 AM »
You should be able to install the Spanish Mac OS 9 onto the Mini over FireWire target disk mode from a compatible machine (or just drag and drop with the right connection) and update that installation to 9.2.2 if needed with the correct language update from Apple.

After that, I had a script which was intended for upgrading those on v8 of the Mac mini System to v9, but it should also work on any standard install of OS 9.2.2 to make it compatible with the Mini; it updates the ROM and has other patches for example.

Itíd be best to try the v9 updater on a fresh install of the Spanish OS 9.2.2 just to make sure it all works fine; older versions of the updater would update the System Suitcase, which may have affected the language in some way, I would have to check if this one does that still.

The updater is here
Quote
Update to v9.sit: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbfZEfYgbhWLGK2JY_xbGjlxrvzzWdSX/view?usp=drivesdk

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1360 on: October 16, 2022, 03:47:05 AM »
ah it would work with the 8->9 updater? i wasnt sure whats "included".
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Offline indibil

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1361 on: October 16, 2022, 08:09:05 AM »
You should be able to install the Spanish Mac OS 9 onto the Mini over FireWire target disk mode from a compatible machine (or just drag and drop with the right connection) and update that installation to 9.2.2 if needed with the correct language update from Apple.

After that, I had a script which was intended for upgrading those on v8 of the Mac mini System to v9, but it should also work on any standard install of OS 9.2.2 to make it compatible with the Mini; it updates the ROM and has other patches for example.

Itíd be best to try the v9 updater on a fresh install of the Spanish OS 9.2.2 just to make sure it all works fine; older versions of the updater would update the System Suitcase, which may have affected the language in some way, I would have to check if this one does that still.

The updater is here
Quote
Update to v9.sit: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbfZEfYgbhWLGK2JY_xbGjlxrvzzWdSX/view?usp=drivesdk

Thank you very much! I have to get another computer to do the target installation and try it out. Perhaps it would work to make 2 partitions, in one install the patched version of 9.2.2. Booting from that OS, and then maybe I could run the installer over the other partition and then apply the V9 patcher. I don't remember if OS 9 allowed to install on another partition without booting from CD.

I try to test it in a few days, now this Mini G4 is my only G4 equipment.

Offline indibil

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1362 on: October 16, 2022, 09:30:16 AM »
Hello, I have connected a Firewire disk and I have installed Mac Os 9.2.2 in Spanish on that hard disk from the Mac Mini 9.2.2 current english installation that i have. After installing, I have executed the V8 to V9 patcher but I get the following message:

"The disc named XXXXXXX, either does not have Mac Os 9 on, does not exist, or is read only!"

Am I doing something wrong? I have copied and pasted the name of the hard drive, there is no error. Could it be because the V7 to V8 patcher is missing?

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1363 on: October 16, 2022, 11:57:22 AM »
Looking at the contents of the v9 updater, it doesn't include the Sleeper control panel or Sleeper related things, so you would need to first use the v8 updater, then the v9 updater, but doesn't look like that will solve the disk problem; not sure why it's saying that.

Have you checked you can actually write to the disk over firewire?
Perhaps try a different name for the disk.

The v8 updater is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17n20BaT_bLgBtsGJwS0D-6sNWJ-Kuluh/view?usp=sharing
which you'd then follow with the v9 updater.

If you still have the disk problem, you could always patch things manually; I just can't quite remember exactly what the scripts remove, it's only clear what they add by looking at the items in the Resources folder.

Another suggestion would be to just replace the ROM from the Spanish install on the Mac mini with the one from the Resources folder in the v9 updater. The Mini would then boot, and you could run both of the updaters in order from the Mini itself to get all the patches.

I should probably make an updater that doesn't depend on previous versions one day, so that it can be used for this exact purpose!


Offline indibil

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1364 on: October 16, 2022, 09:01:33 PM »
Looking at the contents of the v9 updater, it doesn't include the Sleeper control panel or Sleeper related things, so you would need to first use the v8 updater, then the v9 updater, but doesn't look like that will solve the disk problem; not sure why it's saying that.

Have you checked you can actually write to the disk over firewire?
Perhaps try a different name for the disk.

The v8 updater is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17n20BaT_bLgBtsGJwS0D-6sNWJ-Kuluh/view?usp=sharing
which you'd then follow with the v9 updater.

If you still have the disk problem, you could always patch things manually; I just can't quite remember exactly what the scripts remove, it's only clear what they add by looking at the items in the Resources folder.

Another suggestion would be to just replace the ROM from the Spanish install on the Mac mini with the one from the Resources folder in the v9 updater. The Mini would then boot, and you could run both of the updaters in order from the Mini itself to get all the patches.

I should probably make an updater that doesn't depend on previous versions one day, so that it can be used for this exact purpose!

Thanks for answering. I have tried the same again with V8 and it shows me the same error. The disk allows me to write without problems, I can copy files. I have then tried to replace the ROM file with the V9 version within Mac OS 9.2.2 Spanish, I have booted by pressing the ALT key and the FW disk has appeared. I have selected it and when booting the diskette with the question mark inside has appeared, and after a few seconds the English OS 9.2.2 has booted. Just changing the ROM file can't boot.

Edit: sometimes it start it but freezes when it shows the desktop.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 09:46:06 PM by indibil »

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1365 on: October 17, 2022, 02:24:41 AM »
Would suggest booting the Mini with the shift key to temporarily disable extensions, sounds like there is an incompatibility somewhere. Maybe some extensions from the Spanish OS 9 being used are different versions to the ones on the standard system that is restored.

Even though the v9 ROM doesnít require OS 9 drivers, itís probably still a good idea to have them on the disk (since v8 is involved too at some stage) with a reformat from Mac OS 9.

Once youíre able to get to the desktop and run the updaters, it should be enough.

Offline zefrenchtoon

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1366 on: October 17, 2022, 03:29:35 AM »
Hello!

If the Spanish version of OS9 is in the same shape of the French one, you will have to be careful about ATI drivers.
On french version of MacOS, Apple translated the filenames of extensions / control panels so if you try to install updated drivers (which usually are in EN-US language), you will get some files in double because of their differents names (i.e. the old one whith spanish name and the new one with english name) and this cause several crashes.  :'(

Offline indibil

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1367 on: October 17, 2022, 07:22:40 AM »
Hello!

If the Spanish version of OS9 is in the same shape of the French one, you will have to be careful about ATI drivers.
On french version of MacOS, Apple translated the filenames of extensions / control panels so if you try to install updated drivers (which usually are in EN-US language), you will get some files in double because of their differents names (i.e. the old one whith spanish name and the new one with english name) and this cause several crashes.  :'(

Thanks for the warning. I have looked and the two installed ATI kext are in English, like the ones in the patch. I have taken the opportunity to add all the new kext manually.

Would suggest booting the Mini with the shift key to temporarily disable extensions, sounds like there is an incompatibility somewhere. Maybe some extensions from the Spanish OS 9 being used are different versions to the ones on the standard system that is restored.

Even though the v9 ROM doesnít require OS 9 drivers, itís probably still a good idea to have them on the disk (since v8 is involved too at some stage) with a reformat from Mac OS 9.

Once youíre able to get to the desktop and run the updaters, it should be enough.

I have a bug on me. I tell you. I've booted up by pressing shift to disable the extensions. With the extensions disabled the patches are not executed, they must need something that is deactivated. I have tried to boot without shift but it crashes, so what I have done is add the V8 patch in "Startup Items" and when booting it has been executed, I have inserted the hard disk, and the same error message has appeared. Can it be my Firewire drive's fault? I can write and delete on it, but the patch gives that error.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1368 on: October 17, 2022, 07:30:40 AM »
yep, there is also the risk that something requries stuff to have certain names. it begins with simple things like the quicktime updaters.
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Offline zefrenchtoon

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1369 on: October 17, 2022, 07:49:36 AM »
IIRC, Apple did the same mess (filenames' translation) with QuickTime INITs  :-\ (and not kext  ;) )

In fact, Apple did it on every System component, event the System suitcase (called "SystŤme" in French) but not with the Finder fortunately  -afro-

That's why, It is quite a pity to get a French MacOS really up-to-date

Offline jackoverfull

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1370 on: October 17, 2022, 09:00:08 AM »
Honestly I gave up on Italian Mac OS 9 long ago: the added issues are just not worth it for me.

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1371 on: October 17, 2022, 09:07:47 AM »
In fact, Apple did it on every System component, event the System suitcase (called "SystŤme" in French) but not with the Finder fortunately  -afro-

Probably something like this is why the script is not detecting Mac OS 9 installed. From the other posts though, it sounds like there could be other issues.

Offline indibil

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1372 on: October 17, 2022, 09:14:09 PM »
Since the first installation in Spanish was done with a CD that directly installed 9.2.2 for iMac, I did the "correct" installation again from 9.0.4->9.1->9.2.1->9.2.2. this installation has more extensions, including ATI, and with names in Spanish. I changed the ROM file and ATI extensions to it, booted from it to apply the V8 patch, but got the same error.

I'm afraid it won't be easy, I haven't used OS 9 for many years, I discovered it with my G4 Gigabite in 2000 and the shine of OS X made me forget it little by little. Now over the years I value that "simplicity", it amuses me to be able to surf the internet with OS 9, it's so charming. I even keep dozens of CDs and DVDs with software that i have saved, and that I am going to rescue from oblivion
« Last Edit: October 18, 2022, 01:04:16 AM by indibil »

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1373 on: October 19, 2022, 01:30:17 PM »
general advice when you assemble system folders manually: make use of the label colors in finder.

i.e. install something, then, before you do anything else, mark all the items in /extensions blue, so that you can later easily identify which items are new.

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Offline soviet9922

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1374 on: December 08, 2022, 11:28:13 AM »
Hi, installed and works so well is even faster than my mdd !, the mac mini is a monster performer on os9 :D.
But the sound is saturated like when you have a set of speakers way past the max volume.
But my speakers are ok.

Maybe someone knows how to fix this?

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1375 on: December 08, 2022, 12:43:53 PM »
Quote
But the sound is saturated like when you have a set of speakers way past the max volume.
But my speakers are ok.

Maybe someone knows how to fix this?

Many cheap alternatives are available, this is documented way too many times to reiterate, just read some posts for USB solutions

Offline soviet9922

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1376 on: December 08, 2022, 05:52:05 PM »
Thanks, took a random generic usb audio thingy from a drawer and it work right out :)

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1377 on: December 17, 2022, 02:06:16 PM »
great work so far, I'm running Version 9 on Mac Mini G4 1.5ghz
but I'm having an issue with volume control..
sound works, but volume is stuck at 1% and I can't seem to turn it up.

I made a video to demonstrate the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-RtD_XnbKg

how to I fix this?

Offline FBz

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Re: Mac mini G4 / Sound
« Reply #1378 on: December 17, 2022, 10:02:50 PM »

Offline gregbuchner

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1379 on: January 09, 2023, 05:40:58 PM »
Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all of this. I read about Mac OS 9 on Mac Mini's a few months back, finding it by accident, and this became a goal of mine. I had two PowerMac G4's, a Digital Audio (upgraded with dual 1.6 GHz G4s) and a MDD Wind Tunnel. But I could no longer stand the noise from the Wind Tunnel and something happened with the processor card on the DA model. I thought I was sunk on getting a working G4 with native OS 9 support until I saw this.

So bought a 1.42 GHz Mini on eBay (couldn't find a 1.5 GHz model), bought a PATA SSD and a 1 GB RAM stick. Burned the Ross's CD (a few copies just in case). Well, the G4 came today, disassembled it, put in the SSD and the 1 GB RAM, and the booted off of the CD.

Booted successfully there, formatted the drive with the disk utility, did the restore, selected the SSD for the Startup Disk and away it went.

Issues I experienced (so far):
1. Original mouse I was using did not work. Grabbed an Apple mouse (the one with the little trackball) and it worked, but I think I need a mousepad for it.
2. Couldn't get networking to work yet. I wonder if something on my switch isn't supporting 10/100 Ethernet. I'll have to dig into that a bit more.

Pluses:
1. It supports my 1920x1200 display via DVI with no issues.
2. Cheap USB keyboard worked with no issues.

To come:
1. Will it work with my KVM? Hoping, but won't be too disappointed if it doesn't. The G4 Windtunnel didn't...
2. I'm glad I kept some old FW cases around, I have ones that are FW400. I'll have at least that as a minimum to move the games I want to play from the Windtunnel to the Mini.
3. Audio (yep, read about the USB audio options.)

Hardware:
RAM: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VN1U3PM?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
SSD (128 GB): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0091T4ZWU?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Yes, I know the issues with TRIM, but I'm not going to put much on there and I'm probably not going to be creating/deleting a lot of files.

Does anyone have a preferred hub to get more USB ports for the Mini? I think all of mine are USB 2 or later.

Thanks again for all of this work. Sometimes old stuff is just more entertaining. It's why I still have all of my old Apple II stuff.

Now, is there a good ADB to USB adapter where I could use the Apple Extended ADB keyboard and ADB mouse with the Mini?

Offline jackoverfull

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1380 on: January 09, 2023, 09:56:22 PM »
Regarding your original mouse, have you tried installing USB Overdrive?

Offline Bolkonskij

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1381 on: January 10, 2023, 03:04:30 AM »
Thanks for sharing your story!

Don't worry about TRIM. OS9 isn't in the habit of constantly writing to disk (if you keep Virtual Memory off; which is advisable) like some other Apple branded OS (not naming any names). I've got an SSD in my G4 for three years now and it sees daily use and no problems whatsoever ...

As for a hub, I just use a "Delock 87445 USB 2.0 4 Port" that works just fine with my printer, speakers and Christmas lights plugged into it ;-)

Offline gregbuchner

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1382 on: January 11, 2023, 09:32:03 AM »
Regarding your original mouse, have you tried installing USB Overdrive?

Yes, did install it, just haven't had a chance to play too much with things since then. Work can be a PITA when Microsoft screws up your organization for the day by mysteriously deactivating paid for licenses.

And my G4 MDD apparently died so now I have to figure out if I have a FireWire or USB adapter to PATA drives around so I can move data. I think I had one or two in the past, but no idea where they are.

Offline gregbuchner

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1383 on: January 11, 2023, 09:36:47 AM »
Don't worry about TRIM. OS9 isn't in the habit of constantly writing to disk (if you keep Virtual Memory off; which is advisable) like some other Apple branded OS (not naming any names).

As for a hub, I just use a "Delock 87445 USB 2.0 4 Port" that works just fine with my printer, speakers and Christmas lights plugged into it ;-)

I wasn't too worried and yes, I had no plans to turn on Virtual Memory. With OS 9 taking up about 60 some MB of my 1 GB, I don't think it's needed. Although that might grow once I remember some startup items from long ago...

Thanks for the hub recommendation. If I have one around that doesn't work well, I'll look into that one.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1384 on: January 11, 2023, 10:02:56 AM »
the current state of the discussion is that you should try to select another speed than "normal" in usb overdrive to see if third party mouse issues go away.
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Offline jackoverfull

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1385 on: January 11, 2023, 10:44:50 AM »
About virtual memory, keep in mind that you canít give more than around 1GB to a single program, so if you already have that much using virtual memory seems overkill anyway.

Offline gregbuchner

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1386 on: January 12, 2023, 03:20:36 PM »
So, updates...

Realized my ex-roommate had left a PowerMac G3 downstairs. (He'll probably pick it up one day...) Brought it up, plugged it into display, keyboard, mouse, network and power and it powered up. To a folder with a flashing question mark and some questionable sounds from a hard drive. Didn't have time to deal with it then, but do today.

Removed HD from my G4 MDD. Figured the 80 GB one had to be the one I had for Mac OS 9 on that machine, took it out, plugged it into the G3, powered it on and walked away for a bit as I had other things to do. Came back and it was on my OS 9 screen with the stuff I remember. Hook up FW400 drive, start copying games folder over to it. Look around for other data, nothing really important.

Check networking. And the 10/100 networking on the G3 didn't work either. Has to be something with the switch I'm using that is close by as Gigabit has been working.

I'll be set to start playing some old OS 9 compatible games when I can get off work early tomorrow. And play around with any needed settings that might need to be changed, like in USB Overdrive.

Thanks everyone.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1387 on: June 01, 2023, 02:45:07 PM »
Wow this is so great to find this OS9 community!  8) And thank you for your effort to make it possible to install OS 9 to the PPC MacMini!

After that, I had a script which was intended for upgrading those on v8 of the Mac mini System to v9, but it should also work on any standard install of OS 9.2.2 to make it compatible with the Mini; it updates the ROM and has other patches for example.
(...)
The updater is here
Quote
Update to v9.sit: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbfZEfYgbhWLGK2JY_xbGjlxrvzzWdSX/view?usp=drivesdk

Do I unterstand it right, that with that patcher I can make an already existing OS9 System, which was used for the Classic Environment unter Tiger, natively bootable? If so, from where I have to run that script? From OS X or from the OS9 Boot-CD? Does it matter that this OS9 is a German version?

Thanks for the help!

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1388 on: June 02, 2023, 10:49:03 AM »
Quote
Do I unterstand it right, that with that patcher I can make an already existing OS9 System, which was used for the Classic Environment unter Tiger, natively bootable? If so, from where I have to run that script? From OS X or from the OS9 Boot-CD? Does it matter that this OS9 is a German version?

No, absolutely not... the "patcher" is specifically for those who installed the "Mac Mini v8" (version 8 custom CD Install) and now want the newer version of the Mac mini CD.  There are no installs or patchers that can be used on PPC minis that are currently running a stock version of OSX that will enable them to natively boot into OS9.  :(


Offline PowerBookG5

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1389 on: June 04, 2023, 06:50:37 AM »
No, absolutely not... the "patcher" is specifically for those who installed the "Mac Mini v8" (version 8 custom CD Install) and now want the newer version of the Mac mini CD.  There are no installs or patchers that can be used on PPC minis that are currently running a stock version of OSX that will enable them to natively boot into OS9.  :(

Ok but I understood the following quote exact like that:

You should be able to install the Spanish Mac OS 9 onto the Mini over FireWire target disk mode from a compatible machine (or just drag and drop with the right connection) and update that installation to 9.2.2 if needed with the correct language update from Apple.

After that, I had a script which was intended for upgrading those on v8 of the Mac mini System to v9, but it should also work on any standard install of OS 9.2.2 to make it compatible with the Mini; it updates the ROM and has other patches for example.

Itíd be best to try the v9 updater on a fresh install of the Spanish OS 9.2.2 just to make sure it all works fine; older versions of the updater would update the System Suitcase, which may have affected the language in some way, I would have to check if this one does that still.

The updater is here
Quote
Update to v9.sit: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbfZEfYgbhWLGK2JY_xbGjlxrvzzWdSX/view?usp=drivesdk
Now I am confused. That sounds to me, that I can install or move any OS 9.x System Folder to the Mini and make it bootable with the patcher. What do I understand wrong on this?  :-\
Thanks for the help.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1390 on: June 04, 2023, 09:31:54 PM »
Quote
it should also work on any standard install of OS 9.2.2 to make it compatible with the Mini; it updates the ROM and has other patches for example.
I stand corrected... perhaps you should PM Ross Darker, I was unaware that the patcher could modify a standard install.... yet one is confused how you could have a "standard" OS 9.2.2 install already working on the mac mini. 

I am thinking you can partition the drive (make sure OS 9 drivers are checked under on the initial OS X drive setup); Install OS X on partition 1, then copy the files from here to part #2
Mac OS 9.2.2 Universal (Just Format & Drag files to Install)
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1859.0.html

Without rebooting apply the patcher to part#2

Then boot to part#2

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1391 on: June 05, 2023, 03:36:43 AM »
Itís possible there would be issues if itís a German version of Mac OS 9 however, similar to other languages.
See posts #1368 to #1371

Offline zefrenchtoon

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1392 on: June 06, 2023, 04:18:46 AM »
I started to explain the problem of foreign OSes at #1366  ;)


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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1393 on: June 22, 2023, 04:23:32 AM »
I have a weird issue with my install (and forgive me if this has been answered before elsewhere).

I partitioned my 512GB SSD to a few smaller drives, and I intended to put OS 9 on the 1st partition, which is 180GB (FWIW I also tried a smaller partition of 100 GB and I still get the same issues detailed below), and the other partitions will be mostly just data storage with one other one dedicated to a version of OS X.

When I do Apple Software Restore, the process goes smoothly until the checksum part, where it throws an error and says that my disk might not be bootable.  When I check the info on the drive, it's shrunk the drive down to roughly 700MB, with only tens of MB left on the drive.  The good news is, unlike what the error says, the drive is in fact bootable, there's just no storage left on that partition when there should be ~179GB on it.

I tried running Disk First Aid on it, and it tells me "Invalid B-tree node size" and that it can't fix the error.

What would be a remedy for this disk size error?  is there a way to do the install without running the checksum at the end?  I've tried mounting the Macintosh HD.Img and manually dragging the folders onto the disk, but the disk isn't bootable that way, only booting when I do the proper Apple Software Restore.  Alternatively, is there a way that the image file itself could be modified and expanded to 128GB in size, even if it's just some kind of dummy file taking up the extra space to ensure that when it restores, the entire drive size is there?  Or can I do something as simple as running a Norton Utilities disk, and fixing the issue using the tools from that?

Offline zefrenchtoon

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1394 on: June 22, 2023, 04:37:39 AM »
Hi
Your question is missing one information imo:  which version did you try to restore ?  Ross' v8, v9 ? another one ?

BTW, I am not sure that the internal ATA is capable to manage correctly a so big disk safely. I will let others to answer to this point.

I have a weird issue with my install (and forgive me if this has been answered before elsewhere).

I partitioned my 512GB SSD to a few smaller drives, and I intended to put OS 9 on the 1st partition, which is 180GB (FWIW I also tried a smaller partition of 100 GB and I still get the same issues detailed below), and the other partitions will be mostly just data storage with one other one dedicated to a version of OS X.

When I do Apple Software Restore, the process goes smoothly until the checksum part, where it throws an error and says that my disk might not be bootable.  When I check the info on the drive, it's shrunk the drive down to roughly 700MB, with only tens of MB left on the drive.  The good news is, unlike what the error says, the drive is in fact bootable, there's just no storage left on that partition when there should be ~179GB on it.

I tried running Disk First Aid on it, and it tells me "Invalid B-tree node size" and that it can't fix the error.

What would be a remedy for this disk size error?  is there a way to do the install without running the checksum at the end?  I've tried mounting the Macintosh HD.Img and manually dragging the folders onto the disk, but the disk isn't bootable that way, only booting when I do the proper Apple Software Restore.  Alternatively, is there a way that the image file itself could be modified and expanded to 128GB in size, even if it's just some kind of dummy file taking up the extra space to ensure that when it restores, the entire drive size is there?  Or can I do something as simple as running a Norton Utilities disk, and fixing the issue using the tools from that?

Offline EriolGaurhoth

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1395 on: June 22, 2023, 06:39:43 AM »
Hi
Your question is missing one information imo:  which version did you try to restore ?  Ross' v8, v9 ? another one ?

BTW, I am not sure that the internal ATA is capable to manage correctly a so big disk safely. I will let others to answer to this point.

Sorry, I'm using v9, the newest one. I've heard of other people using relatively large drives, at least ones over 200GB, I'm just not sure how they pulled it off. Another thing I probably should add is that Drive Setup seems to max out at 128GB so I had to partition the drive using the Disk Utility of a Mac OS X 10.4 setup disk, and when booting into Ross' v9, all the drives are recognized just fine and appear to hold information just fine, and the install goes smoothly, outside of the checksum error shrinking my 128GB partition down to 700MB.  Not only is the partition perfectly bootable, but once in OS 9, it sees all the other partitions I made, recognizing the full size of each partition as well. 

My last-ditch solution might just be to create a 1GB partition to install OS 9 on, and use other disk partitions to store all the applications and such, I'd just rather have some more space on my boot partition for things like additional extensions, as the system only shows me having about 30MB left on the boot partition.  What I might like to try is modifying the "Macintosh HD.img" to include some kind of large-size dummy file that can be deleted after the install so the partition can be stretched, I'm just not sure how to do so without breaking the bootability of the image.  And I'd have to keep the image on my secondary FireWire drive, because it wouldn't fit on my burned v9 CD.

Offline zefrenchtoon

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1396 on: June 22, 2023, 06:49:26 AM »
there should be a trick because I did quite the same install on mine with a 120GB SSD splitted in 3 almost equal partitions so each of them is about 30GB and all went fine if I remember well   ???

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1397 on: June 22, 2023, 07:21:56 AM »
You could try initialising the drive with Drive Setup 2.1 instead (1.9.2 launches by default). It's in the Applications folder on the CD when you boot from it.

Otherwise, the drag and drop method you described should work. Perhaps you just need to bless the System Folder afterwards:
Quote
...it may be necessary at times to re-bless a copied System folder. A Mac OS 9 System folder must be 'blessed' in order for it to be recognized as a bootable OS (this “blessed” status is indicated by the System folder icon displaying an added glyph of the Mac OS logo). Re-blessing a system Folder is simple; first, drag the two files “Finder” and “System” out of the System Folder and close it. Now, drop these two files back onto the closed System folder. The closed System folder should display the Mac OS logo indicating it is blessed.

Offline EriolGaurhoth

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1398 on: June 22, 2023, 09:23:51 AM »
You could try initialising the drive with Drive Setup 2.1 instead (1.9.2 launches by default). It's in the Applications folder on the CD when you boot from it.

Otherwise, the drag and drop method you described should work. Perhaps you just need to bless the System Folder afterwards:

Played around with this a bit, and using 2.1 was good advice as it did see the entire disk size this time.  I tried to make the 180Gb partition for OS 9 and it still kept failing on me.  Then I thought, maybe the issue was with the CD and/or the CD drive, because I was having trouble with it lately.  So I dragged the "Macintosh HD.img" and Apple Software Restore over to my attached Firewire drive, restored using that, and everything worked perfectly!  Mostly...no checksum errors, the drive is the correct size and the volume boots.  Unfortunately now I can no longer move my mouse, which iirc, was an issue with this install before, so I'll have to check and see how that was eventually resolved to see if I can fix it here as well.

Offline gregbuchner

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1399 on: June 22, 2023, 10:45:29 AM »
I believe you need to use the Disk Utility on the CD to partition it for things to work properly. I know I did with a 128 GB SSD (PATA) and it went smoothly.


Offline EriolGaurhoth

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1400 on: June 22, 2023, 11:32:08 AM »
I think I'm all set, the newer Drive Setup worked, restoring the .img file from my firewire drive instead of my (apparently) faulty CD drive gave me no checksum errors, and the system booted.  I had an issue moving the mouse upon boot, but installing USB Overdrive fixed that right away as well :)

Offline jackoverfull

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1401 on: June 22, 2023, 08:20:07 PM »
I think I'm all set, the newer Drive Setup worked, restoring the .img file from my firewire drive instead of my (apparently) faulty CD drive gave me no checksum errors, and the system booted.  I had an issue moving the mouse upon boot, but installing USB Overdrive fixed that right away as well :)
I have USB Overdrive and I keep having the mouse stuck on boot usher now and then, rebooting invariably solves it.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1402 on: June 23, 2023, 02:51:28 AM »
does that mean that one should make the followig changes to the v9 image:
 - set USBOverdrive to not 1.0 (in the prefs file)
 - autolaunch drive setup 2.1
?
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1403 on: June 23, 2023, 03:29:01 AM »
The primary Drive Setup will be made 2.1 again. I think more people are formatting large drives as opposed to external FireWire drives. 1.9.2 will still be on the disc though, and instructions for formatting FW drives will be added to the readme.

As for USB Overdrive, I remember some people only being able to use the boot CD with extensions off. (USB Overdrive is installed on the CD)
So it seems to unstick some mice (more often), stick others, or have no effect. Perhaps this is just a coincidence, and stuck mouse is still ~1/10 chance. Iíd have to read some of those posts again to see how likely that is.

So it would seem itís best to leave USB Overdrive optional for now.

For the next CD, Iím hoping there can be a big upgrade, such as onboard audio functionality. The progress being made some time ago looked to be going in the right direction. Itíd be great if itís successful, but still worth investigating nonetheless.

Offline jackoverfull

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1404 on: June 23, 2023, 04:18:09 AM »
I thought that onboard audio was not possible until a software mixer is written?

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1405 on: June 23, 2023, 07:25:09 AM »
The primary Drive Setup will be made 2.1 again. I think more people are formatting large drives as opposed to external FireWire drives. 1.9.2 will still be on the disc though, and instructions for formatting FW drives will be added to the readme.

I might be in minority here, but for well over 20 years I've been a big fan of FWB HDT for formatting internal drives. In my experiments with 17" PB G4 1MHz and Delock + mSATA drives, I got speeds in the range of 60MB/s with Drive Setup 1.9.2; 90MB/s with HDT 4.5.2 and slightly less than 90MB/s with 2.1. Drive Setup also installed a whole bunch of different drivers on internal drive, whereas HDT only the ATA one.
But, as they say, YMMV. ;)
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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1406 on: June 23, 2023, 09:00:22 AM »
Quote
I might be in minority here, but for well over 20 years I've been a big fan of FWB HDT for formatting internal drives.

It is an awesome product... however, I backed away from it for compatibility issues; some drives become un-readble in systems that do NOT have FWB installed.  So data recovery and other universal HD swapping becomes an issue.  This becomes an issue if you remove a drive with FWB installed and connect it as a secondary drive to a system without FWB installed. I am guessing the FWB drivers are similar to a dynamic drive overlay and need to be configured at boot in some way.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1407 on: June 23, 2023, 05:47:05 PM »
external FireWire drives. 1.9.2 will still be on the disc though

yes of course, as secondary option it should be kept.

as for the formatting and installing issues, one option could also be to make the volume an OSX boot volume and do things from there, but that would be less sexy, more work and it would no longer fit onto a CD media.
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Offline EriolGaurhoth

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1408 on: June 26, 2023, 07:57:54 AM »
Hi guys (and girls) !
What if I tell you that Bluetooth is working on OS9 on my mini ?
Ok ok ok, only with keyboards and mouse.  ::)

Using the internal bluetooth of the Mac Mini or a USB bluetooth dongle?

Offline ebann

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1409 on: June 28, 2023, 08:38:46 AM »
Iím new here  8)
I have a Mini G4 1.42GHz and want to install Mac OS 9.
I downloaded the latest ISO image and burned it to a CD in Windows 11.
Burner couldnít verify the image complaining it couldnít read the disc.
I couldnít boot from CD using OPTION or C keys.
Tried booting from Mac OS X under Startup Disk using ALT+RESTART.
Did NOT work.
Tried burning another CD from MacBookÖ also failed to verify image. Unreadable.
What am I doing wrong! The YouTube video looks simple enough  :o

Edit: I vaguely remembered someone complain about keyboard issues so I replaced the modern Apple flat-chiclet USB keyboard with the one from my PowerMac Silver keyboard and alas, booting from CD by holding C worked like a charm. Silly how keyboards are so finicky.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2023, 10:57:42 AM by ebann »

Offline Opualuan

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1410 on: August 06, 2023, 12:14:21 PM »
Iíve installed this on two systems, neither have sound at all- internal or external. Also, no control of the modem. I know about the volume issue, this is different- am I alone in this experience?

Offline jackoverfull

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1411 on: August 07, 2023, 05:14:19 AM »
Have you tried connecting external speakers with built in volume control? The volume of the internal speaker is stuck so low to be inaudible.

I had no idea anyone was still using a modem, sorry.

Offline Opualuan

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1412 on: August 07, 2023, 11:10:07 AM »
I did try external speakers but will re-test with a different set. Itís very late to still be using a modem, the only reason is to play some multiplayer games with a friend, havenít found a reasonable solution for Appletalk over Ethernet/internet.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1413 on: August 29, 2023, 05:04:14 AM »
A question to creators of ROM file for Mac Mini or those in the know: why are there two instances of 'PowerMac10,1 PowerMac10,2' and several other lines in the boot script in ROM file? Was it done on purpose? If so, why?

I'm playing with ROMs for other unsupported Macs and trying to learn..

Code: [Select]
<COMPATIBLE>
PowerMac10,1 PowerMac10,2 PowerMac10,1 PowerMac10,2 MacRISC
</COMPATIBLE>

Code: [Select]
\ Hacks for Mac mini, should not affect other machines
" /" select-dev " model" active-package get-package-property 0= if
    decode-string 2swap 2drop 2dup " PowerMac10,1" $= -rot " PowerMac10,2" $= or if

        \ Pretend to be a Power Mac G4 Cube
        " /" select-dev
            " PowerMac5,1" encode-string 2dup
            " model" property
            " MacRISC" encode-string encode+
            " MacRISC2" encode-string encode+
            " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+
            " compatible" property
        device-end

        \ Pretend to have a PowerPC 7445/55, actual PVR unaffected
        " /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0" select-dev
            80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property
        device-end

        \ Set prim-info (for PwrMgr v2 in NativePowerMgrLib)
        " via-pmu/power-mgt" select-dev
            000000ff encode-int
            0000002c encode-int encode+
            00030d40 encode-int encode+
            0001e705 encode-int encode+     \ public features
            00001400 encode-int encode+     \ private features
            00000000 encode-int encode+
            0000260d encode-int encode+
            46000270 encode-int encode+
            " prim-info" property
        device-end

    then
then \ End of mini hacks
\ Hacks for Mac mini, should not affect other machines
" /" select-dev " model" active-package get-package-property 0= if
    decode-string 2swap 2drop 2dup " PowerMac10,1" $= -rot " PowerMac10,2" $= or if

        \ Pretend to be a Power Mac G4 Cube
        " /" select-dev
            " PowerMac5,1" encode-string 2dup
            " model" property
            " MacRISC" encode-string encode+
            " MacRISC2" encode-string encode+
            " Power Macintosh" encode-string encode+
            " compatible" property
        device-end

        \ Pretend to have a PowerPC 7445/55, actual PVR unaffected
        " /cpus/PowerPC,G4@0" select-dev
            80010201 encode-int " cpu-version" property
        device-end

        \ Set prim-info (for PwrMgr v2 in NativePowerMgrLib)
        " via-pmu/power-mgt" select-dev
            000000ff encode-int
            0000002c encode-int encode+
            00030d40 encode-int encode+
            0001e705 encode-int encode+     \ public features
            00001400 encode-int encode+     \ private features
            00000000 encode-int encode+
            0000260d encode-int encode+
            46000270 encode-int encode+
            " prim-info" property
        device-end

    then
then \ End of mini hacks
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Offline zefrenchtoon

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1414 on: September 18, 2023, 01:18:35 AM »
As many of us, I am still thinking about getting sound using mini's internal sound card and speaker.

If I am not wrong, a part of the hack to make OS9 boot on the mini consists to modify the ROM to make OS9 thinking it is running on a Cube.
If I am not wrong, the Cube is a quite special system when we talk about sound because it uses specific Apple Pro USB Speakers which contains a specific amplifier.

So I was thinking that maybe it was related ... on one side, we have almost no sound, on the other side the "real" Cube uses an external amplifier.

Then, I have read this post on 68kmla about how the System boot process works and I though about our beloved minis and OS9.

https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/patched-6-0-8l-for-more-macs.45379/post-501638

If I am not wrong, the mini, as the other "unsupported" G4s, does not have a GestAlt Id.
But the Cube has one !   406
So maybe in the boot process, the System disables the internal amplifier because of the gestalt id.

Thanks for reading  :)

Offline teroyk

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1415 on: September 20, 2023, 01:21:52 AM »
so you say you are sure that in theory it will work, but silverlining itself has also a limit? :P hopefully it was only because of your enclosure.

my HDDs just arrived. i am supposed to use what version of silverlining?

and i know you can ask for sector size in OSX console. can you maybe also format drives with custom settings in the shell?

Sorry I missed your post before.
Silverlining Version 6.5.8.
With second thought, is that actually allocation size, not sector size that I can setup with it?

Actually how I can format with 1024 bytes sector size in OSX console?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2023, 01:32:45 AM by teroyk »

Offline dtekle

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1416 on: September 22, 2023, 06:16:21 AM »
@zefrenchtoon:
Your idea sounds interesting, maybe it is possible to patch the sound initialization part of the MacOS ROM. Some ROMs expert should look into this and do some exploration along this route.

Besides that, there is an ongoing effort to write a MacOS driver for the used sound chipset (Toonie) in the Mac mini G4 based on the existing Linux driver and reverse-engineering of the Mac OS 9 system file (Link: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6701.msg50722.html).

Offline chatulim

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1417 on: November 14, 2023, 12:33:53 PM »
Hope you guys can help me...

I would like to install OS 9 on a G4 mini 1.25 GHz (PowerMac10,1) with a non-working optical drive (it not read any  discs. It just grinds a bit and then spits them out).

Besides the G4 Mini, I also have a PowerBook G4 12" 1.5 GHz running OS X Tiger, and an OWC external FireWire / USB 450 GB drive with 3 partitions: Tiger Install Disc (4 GB); Ross's Mac mini OS 9 CD v9 install disc (700 MB);  and one empty partition (the rest of the GB). The FW drive has OS 9 drivers installed.

I plugged the FW drive into the Mini and booted with the option key held down. When the screen came up, it showed 3 options: The Mini's internal drive (also with OS X Tiger); the Tiger install partition; and the Ross's Mac mini OS 9 partition. I selected the OS 9 partition, and after a few seconds it displayed an OS 9-style disk with blinking question mark. Then the fan starts spinning up like a jet engine and stays that way until I shut it down.

What am I missing?

Offline Opualuan

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1418 on: November 14, 2023, 07:15:17 PM »
I donít know the answer on the external drive, but on my g4 mini the mechanism and laser lens was coated in dust. A few screws to lift the cover of the drive, easy to clean and worked well for OS install afterwards.

Yes- remove power completely and observe proper laser safety precautions.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2023, 07:48:25 AM by Opualuan »

Offline chatulim

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1419 on: November 14, 2023, 09:42:21 PM »
I donít know the answer on the external drive, but on my g4 mini the mechanism and laser lens was coated in dust. A few screws to lift the cover of the drive, easy to clean and worked well for OS install afterwards.

I just want to make sure I understood you correctly: Did you take apart the optical drive itself‽ I've disassembled many Macs, but I never tried to open up a CD/DVD drive. Those WARNING!!! HERE BE LASERS!!! stickers always intimidated me.When an optical drive would fail (and they did so pretty consistently), I would just chuck it and replace it. I was actually pretty happy when the world moved on to solid-state storage and network transfers.

Offline FBz

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1420 on: November 14, 2023, 11:15:18 PM »
Yes, as Opualuan mentionedÖ remove the optical drive and the screws holding the two halves together.
Once the mini is powered down and drive removed, that ďfrikken laserĒ canít get ya.
Besides itís always interesting to open one - as you never know just what youíll find.

And if it doesnít work afterwardsÖ well you'll already know what to do. ;)


                                          Recently discovered here in an otherwise 100% pristine condition Quicksilver. (I just had to share.)


Offline chatulim

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1421 on: November 16, 2023, 04:41:47 AM »
Yes, as Opualuan mentionedÖ remove the optical drive and the screws holding the two halves together.
Once the mini is powered down and drive removed, that ďfrikken laserĒ canít get ya.
Besides itís always interesting to open one - as you never know just what youíll find.

Well, I opened it up... Didn't seem too dusty. I blew out what I could see (using a Giottos rocket bulb-blower), gave a few extra blasts of air to the lens, put it all back together, and... it still doesn't read any disks. It does take a few more seconds before spitting them out, but it never gets to that high-speed spinning stage.

I guess I could try replacing the optical drive. What type of drive do I need -- ATAPI? SATA? Something else?

Online DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1422 on: November 16, 2023, 08:57:10 AM »
Quote
I guess I could try replacing the optical drive. What type of drive do I need -- ATAPI? SATA? Something else?

Apple part number will be printed on top, then just go to eBay, should be dirt cheap, also decide if you want to burn DVD, most are "combo" which read DVD and burn CD, but some are "superdrive"

Offline gregbuchner

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1423 on: November 16, 2023, 03:20:15 PM »

I guess I could try replacing the optical drive. What type of drive do I need -- ATAPI? SATA? Something else?

How fast did you "burn" the CD? Sometimes older devices work better with optical disks that are burned at a slower speed. I didn't have a problem with my G4 Mini burning at full speed, but I did on an old PC with a DVD drive when I was installing Ubuntu. At 16x burn speed, it would not boot, two different discs. Burned at 4x, it booted right away.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1424 on: November 16, 2023, 04:19:37 PM »
iīve never tried it but i think any flat optical drive will fit into the mini, no need to buy outdated apple stuff.

what you need is IDE, and with some luck you can still buy those new from private persons.

SATA would only theoretically work, since there is no space to put an adapter.

external is an option, too (maybe anyone can comment if you can also boot from fw drives into OSX installer DVDs on the mini?)
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