Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 181687 times)

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1050 on: March 05, 2020, 09:39:29 PM »
no, you may not replace the ati drivers. the ones coming with the mini OS are already modified for it, the regular ones wont work.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline ELN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1051 on: March 05, 2020, 10:17:42 PM »
No! Use the regular ATI drivers with the latest ROM! It fixes the mouse bug.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1052 on: March 06, 2020, 08:52:54 AM »
ah, seems i missed that the driver made it into the ROM now. ;)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline txviking

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1053 on: March 07, 2020, 09:43:45 AM »
No! Use the regular ATI drivers with the latest ROM! It fixes the mouse bug.

I encountered the mouse bug when I booted the V8 image. Haven't attempted installing yet. Which ROM am I supposed to be using? I presume I need to replace the Mac OS ROM file both in the System Folder on the CD and on the bundled Macintosh HD.img that I presume the installer uses?

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1054 on: March 07, 2020, 12:43:29 PM »
strange enough, four weeks ago i already gave the right answer when somebody asked, and now i forgot it again. :P

but where is that latest ROM file again?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline FBz

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1055 on: March 07, 2020, 02:35:49 PM »

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1056 on: March 07, 2020, 03:03:51 PM »
i know this post and wanted to point him to it, but i didnt see the attachement. :D
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline txviking

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1057 on: March 07, 2020, 04:12:41 PM »
Thanks for posting the link to the right post. I do remember reading this, but I had missed the attachment at the time.

I was able to modify the V8 ISO to include this new Mac OS ROM in its System Folder. I did that by mounting the disk image with -readwrite under Leopard, which still had HFS write support. However, when I try to do the same to the embedded Macintosh HD image, I get: hdiutil: attach failed – Operation not permitted.

I can mount the "Macintosh HD" img embedded on the ISO as read-only, but not as read/write. I will see if I can manipulate it better on one of my classic Macs, but any pointers on how to slip the new ROM file in there from Leopard would be appreciated. And yes, I did try running hdiutil as root.

Offline FBz

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1058 on: March 07, 2020, 04:14:02 PM »
i know this post and wanted to point him to it, but i didnt see the attachement. :D

Did you look under your bed? ;)

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1059 on: March 08, 2020, 06:20:03 AM »
with the "OS9 driver included" ROM we can start including an option for "manual install" with the v9 iso distribution and so can everyone who wants to create his custom mini OS.

so dont bother about modifying the ASR image - just assemble a mini system folder (f.e. on another mac) which you then can copy to your minis when needed.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline cybernetix

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1060 on: March 08, 2020, 07:14:24 PM »
I did something similar to @txviking where I copied ELN's new ROM + ATI January 2005 install onto the v8 ISO.

I booted the Mac Mini G4 with the updated v8 CD, performed a restore to Macintosh HD and then copied the new ROM directly into the System Folder.

I booted into Mac OS 9, deleted all the ATI* extensions and then ran the ATI January 2005 install. I've rebooted again and can confirm I have graphics acceleration however I'm still unable to get to 1920x1080@60 without blurry graphics/out of range over DVI-HDMI.

Is there a way for me to validate the NDRV is active and/or ATI extensions are working as they should? Happy to assist with troubleshooting :)

Cheers again for all the excellent feedback!

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1061 on: March 09, 2020, 02:05:20 AM »
I did something similar to @txviking where I copied ELN's new ROM + ATI January 2005 install onto the v8 ISO.

I booted the Mac Mini G4 with the updated v8 CD, performed a restore to Macintosh HD and then copied the new ROM directly into the System Folder.

I booted into Mac OS 9, deleted all the ATI* extensions and then ran the ATI January 2005 install. I've rebooted again and can confirm I have graphics acceleration however I'm still unable to get to 1920x1080@60 without blurry graphics/out of range over DVI-HDMI.

Is there a way for me to validate the NDRV is active and/or ATI extensions are working as they should? Happy to assist with troubleshooting :)

Cheers again for all the excellent feedback!

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4337.0.html

Offline cybernetix

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1062 on: March 09, 2020, 06:44:04 AM »
Cheers for that @darthnVader. While I understand there is a pixel clock limitation, something isn't adding up. When I received my Mac Mini G4s from eBay, they were running Mac OS X 10.4.11 and worked on my BenQ 27" monitor 1920x1080@60 straight out of the box. For fun I reinstalled Mac OS Tiger 10.4.1, I hit the fuzzy graphics/out of range issue. It wasn't until it patched all the way to 10.4.11 everything came good.

My psychic debugging tells me that Apple put something into Mac OS X 10.4.11 to deal with the pixel clock issue.

In your post there is a quote regarding SwitchResX, is there something I can do with that tool that can propagate the resolution/timings into Mac OS 9 or am I basically stuck with what I have at the time being?

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1063 on: March 09, 2020, 09:08:51 AM »
switchres is a possible solution for OS9, too.

though i will never understand why sometimes 2k monitors wouldnt just work out of the box.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1064 on: March 09, 2020, 10:26:14 AM »
Cheers for that @darthnVader. While I understand there is a pixel clock limitation, something isn't adding up. When I received my Mac Mini G4s from eBay, they were running Mac OS X 10.4.11 and worked on my BenQ 27" monitor 1920x1080@60 straight out of the box. For fun I reinstalled Mac OS Tiger 10.4.1, I hit the fuzzy graphics/out of range issue. It wasn't until it patched all the way to 10.4.11 everything came good.

My psychic debugging tells me that Apple put something into Mac OS X 10.4.11 to deal with the pixel clock issue.

In your post there is a quote regarding SwitchResX, is there something I can do with that tool that can propagate the resolution/timings into Mac OS 9 or am I basically stuck with what I have at the time being?

The Pixel clock limit can be a real issue, compounded by the fact that most displays don't state if they are coherent/non-coherent.

I had to use the 'NDRV' from 10.3.7 for the Mini, as later 'NDRV's were not compatible with OS 9, and OS 9 'NDRV's are not compatible with 10.4.x and later. Apple changed the ways 'NDRV's work, and didn't care about OS 9 compatibility.

So check if the display works correct in 10.3.7 on the Mini @1080P, if it doesn't, then you're not going to have a whole lot of success with it in OS 9.

Apple's documentation on 'NDRV's is next to useless, and only the people that wrote the 'NDRV' for Qemu's VGA can really help us, and I don't know who that was to ask, but I've never asked at the qemu-ppc mailing list.

Offline cybernetix

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1065 on: March 09, 2020, 06:44:43 PM »
Thank you for clearing that up mate :) Yeah it sounds like I'm SOL when it comes to the monitors I have (tested two so far). I'll try 10.3.7 on the weekend to see what result I have but I'm doubtful given the result I got from 10.4.1.

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1066 on: March 24, 2020, 04:01:18 AM »
Hi, seems great process has been made.
Haven't been able to make v9 for a while due to my exams that were coming up.

But now school has shut down for me, and my May/June exams are not going to happen anymore.
As well as studying for next year, there is a lot of spare time I have.
So I’ll be working on this new CD (v9) during times I can, which will be quite a lot.

Will include the new ROM, fixed DVD player, and anything else that was new.
So the ATI drivers are to use are the January 2005 (unmodified) ones right, are these the ones from the "9.2.2 Universal Install"?

Ross
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1067 on: March 24, 2020, 10:35:38 AM »
So when using the new ROM with the original ATI drivers, for me it causes the system to hang right after it gets to the desktop, and when I force quit, it asks to force quit “ATI Video Accelerator”. When I force quit the system is then usable, but no graphics acceleration. This extension doesn’t have a modified one for the mini either so any ideas?

Edit: Never mind sorted the issue, was using older drivers not Jan 2005 ones.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 10:49:45 AM by RossDarker »
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1068 on: March 24, 2020, 11:30:18 PM »
yes, the second last, not june 05

are you going to include two options, with and without reformatting?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1069 on: March 25, 2020, 02:23:08 AM »
I’ll make another AppleScript updater app of course
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Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1070 on: March 25, 2020, 03:02:37 AM »
nah i mean we could stop using the ASR method completly, or am i on a wrong track?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1071 on: March 25, 2020, 03:11:10 AM »
Always useful to have the ASR method for those that haven't installed before, because they can boot off the CD, and if v9 CD then they don't have to install v8 then update.
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Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1072 on: March 25, 2020, 04:04:58 PM »
So my CD-RW's came and was able to properly test now, here's a v9 ISO:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zg0Vm42Dt-xOwPm_A2Pn8OcA23SWHOKf/view?usp=sharing

Version 9:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4365.msg30502#msg30502


Got some good changes including the new ROM, DVD player patch etc...

No separate updater app yet, but can do this tomorrow.

Let me know how this goes.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 04:31:19 PM by DieHard »
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Offline darthnVader

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1073 on: March 26, 2020, 02:45:10 AM »
So my CD-RW's came and was able to properly test now, here's a v9 ISO:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zg0Vm42Dt-xOwPm_A2Pn8OcA23SWHOKf/view?usp=sharing


Version 9:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4365.msg30502#msg30502


Got some good changes including the new ROM, DVD player patch etc...

No separate updater app yet, but can do this tomorrow.

Let me know how this goes.

What is the DVD player Patch?

I must of missed it, if someone fixed it, how was it done?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 04:31:42 PM by DieHard »

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1074 on: March 26, 2020, 03:26:15 AM »
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2408.msg38412.html#msg38412

Probably just bypassed a hardware check but not entirely sure. Maybe it says somewhere
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Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1075 on: March 30, 2020, 04:10:18 PM »
COV19 has SoCal in shambles, I will get V9 posted here ASAP; Thanks again RossDarker for gluing together all the pieces !

And of coarse thanks to all that have made the mini project happen.

Lastly... I got 2 of Mat's Minis prepped with v8, but I will "redo" them to v9 and finally get them up for lottery !

Days... turn to weeks... turn to months... I hate fighting time !  Think I'll watch "DARK" again on Netflix and rollback a few years

Offline Philgood

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1076 on: April 01, 2020, 04:52:48 AM »
Dark?
That german show?

Never saw it but it's popular between some friends of mine 😜
*G4 MDD 1.25GHz (Single 2003)* with 2x 80Gb harddrives, 1Gb RAM, Tascam US-428 and Edirol FA-101 USB/Firewire soundcards-*iMac G3 DV 400MHz* with installs from OS 8.6-OSX Tiger on different harddrives-*Powerbook G4 1.67Ghz* with new SSD ! Love it.

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1077 on: April 02, 2020, 11:19:18 AM »
Many thanks for the new image v9, is there any way to get the upgrade SIT (v8 to v9)
without to d/l the whole iso ? Its just I m facing very low speeds to get it -average 100 KB/s - and the d/l stopped once due to "server error".... thanks again


Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1078 on: April 02, 2020, 11:37:40 AM »
I'll work on the SIT hopefully tomorrow, for now if you want to update all manually you can fetch the new ROM from this thread somewhere, as well as the DVD player patch from Macintosh garden and then the drivers are also here https://www.macintoshrepository.org/1357-ati-os-9-drivers-january-2005-
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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1079 on: April 02, 2020, 11:43:35 AM »
cheers mate! I will keep an eye for the update.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1080 on: April 02, 2020, 12:42:58 PM »
Dark?
That german show?

Never saw it but it's popular between some friends of mine 😜

Yep... probably the best written Sci-Fi series in all of human history, extremely well produced with a great audio track done with some very rare audio retro synths and sound generators; the Germans have very talented actors, blows Hollywood away

Offline GaryN

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1081 on: April 02, 2020, 06:07:06 PM »
This thread started five tears ago and is now fifteen pages long!
The best part is that it's the top pinned "reference" thread in the unsupported section.

I can only imagine some poor slob who gets himself a Mini, signs up and on here for help, sees the title and gets happy…

THEN… opens it to find post after post of yada yada yada yada and has to spend two days trying to sort out the useful info.
:o  :o  :o

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1082 on: April 02, 2020, 06:13:20 PM »
the best about some of these thread is that they start with pointing out something which is not possible, and a few years later it is.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline Philgood

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1083 on: Today at 06:28:28 AM »
Dark?
That german show?

Never saw it but it's popular between some friends of mine 😜

Yep... probably the best written Sci-Fi series in all of human history, extremely well produced with a great audio track done with some very rare audio retro synths and sound generators; the Germans have very talented actors, blows Hollywood away

Will give it try!
Thanks boss.
*G4 MDD 1.25GHz (Single 2003)* with 2x 80Gb harddrives, 1Gb RAM, Tascam US-428 and Edirol FA-101 USB/Firewire soundcards-*iMac G3 DV 400MHz* with installs from OS 8.6-OSX Tiger on different harddrives-*Powerbook G4 1.67Ghz* with new SSD ! Love it.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1084 on: Today at 10:55:10 AM »
This thread started five tears ago and is now fifteen pages long!
The best part is that it's the top pinned "reference" thread in the unsupported section.

I can only imagine some poor slob who gets himself a Mini, signs up and on here for help, sees the title and gets happy…

THEN… opens it to find post after post of yada yada yada yada and has to spend two days trying to sort out the useful info.
:o  :o  :o

I modified the original initial post after v9 to direct link newbies to the current download last week to avoid that exact scenario