Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 113383 times)

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #600 on: May 19, 2018, 09:51:20 AM »
Now you can boot to mini, but remove the ASIO drivers

now that you mention it, yeah, that is anaother trap on the mini, ASIO soundmanager is often selected as default. :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #601 on: May 20, 2018, 10:43:24 AM »

would you guys help me to assemble an overview of the modified files of the mini CD.

/Mac OS ROM

Changes: ...
Reason for  these Changes: ...
Code: ... (if applicable)

/Prefrerences/WeatherPrefs.txt

Changes: ...
Reason for these Changes: ...
Code: ... (if applicable)

i know that most of it is in the forums, but mabye we can first add what someone knows by heart already.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #602 on: May 20, 2018, 11:07:29 AM »
For v7 of the Mac mini OS 9, not v5, I can think of...

Most extensions are CPU 5.9, one is Z-5.6, and the ROM is 5.4

Modified files:
System Folder:Mac OS ROM
Changes: Edits/Patches to various parts
Reason for Changes: Allow the Mac mini G4 to boot Mac OS 9
Version: 9.6.1, CPU Software 5.4.

System Folder:Extensions:ATI*
Changes: Patched/Edited ATI extensions.
Reason for Changes: Enables Hardware/3d/2d acceleration and probably other graphics related things


Removed files:
System Folder:Control Panels:Energy Saver
Reason for removal: Replaced by Sleeper.

System Folder:Control Strip Modules:Energy Settings
Reason for removal: Replaced by Sleeper Strip.


Added files:
System Folder:Control Panels:Sleeper
Reason for adding: Only sends display and hard disk to sleep, when told to sleep, and not the CPU. (get's rid of not waking up issue)

System Folder:Control Strip Modules:Sleeper Strip
Reason for adding: Replaces the Energy Settings strip, more or less same functions, but works with the Sleeper control panel

System Folder:Scripting Additions:Sleeper osax
Reason for adding: Think this works with Apple Script to work with the Sleeper Control Panel functions


« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 12:01:18 PM by RossDarker »
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline DieHard

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #603 on: May 20, 2018, 12:21:27 PM »
Ok I see now a bit but you know the latest mac mini rom file works with the Multiprocessing folder, with Apple CPU Plugins right?

I did not remember that so I that step is not necessary now, I will dive back into the mini next weekend and do more real-world testing with the new ROM

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #604 on: May 20, 2018, 12:25:19 PM »
Yes you should definitely keep the Multiprocessing folder in, as the fans run much quieter, and cooler, and with the Sleeper control panel & strip & addition replacing Energy Saver ones, we don't have the "doesn't wake up from sleep" problem. All this new stuff is built into the v7 CD.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline DieHard

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #605 on: May 20, 2018, 12:28:03 PM »
Ross,

that breakdown is awesome !  But we should include and actual file listing (with locations to copy to) and SIT archive and put it in the download folder for v7 mac mini ISO, this will be for those who need to "manually" drag the files if they are using an different ASR like the "Instant DAW" or if they are transferring a Fully working OS9 Setup from another G4 with all applications and preferences.

Thanks for all the hard work compiling stuff :)

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #606 on: May 20, 2018, 12:30:55 PM »
10 minutes, I'll have the Stuffit Archive with the v7 stuff in attached.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline DieHard

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #607 on: May 20, 2018, 01:35:48 PM »
New Version 7 CD ISO available !

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4365.0.html

Also, has the optional Stuffit archive with all modified files for those that have to modify an existing Setup and do NOT want to install from scratch

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #608 on: May 20, 2018, 01:55:00 PM »
That's great. Also Mac Torrent is in CD Extras now. By the way when I downloaded the v7 Items.sit, some files had lost their icons, but they still open and function as they should! Do you notice this??
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #609 on: May 20, 2018, 02:16:51 PM »
...did someone remove the desktop DB using toast? :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac Os 9 boot on unsupported Hardware, "The state Of the art".
« Reply #610 on: May 20, 2018, 02:28:22 PM »
But we should include and actual file listing (with locations to copy to)

yes please, the actual filenames (of the graphics driver files) will enable third parties to do any additional modification to the installation process they wish.

maybe we find some interesting news ways for organizings things.

thats why i was suggesting the use of showy ID -16455 icons for the modified files.

(otoh, when i think about it, not everyone was using a "universal" OS9 before on his other machine, and therefore doesnt have the finder and CPU software version required, right? so you would always "update" a mini system with your custom stuff - and never the other way round.)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #611 on: May 20, 2018, 03:49:26 PM »
__________
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #612 on: May 20, 2018, 04:47:46 PM »
mini OS v7.1

when i just copy the system folder to a preexisting OS9ified mini in order to update the machine from the old system to the new

1. usb overdrive is in extras, but it is already installed, too. (there is a third copy of usb overdrive in the trash of the CD)

2. i am getting the system 6 / floppy style "please insert the disk:" error message after startup. this is permanent. (how to remove it?)

3. the applemenu doesnt look like it looks after a regular install (mainly /controlpanels is missing and the ASR app is present. that is probably unavoidable for a copy of the CD boot folder, just saying :) )

4. i did extensive tests on 2 minis with the new sleep software - it seems to work great. i have not tested anything in the fields of intereferences when the apple energy saver is also active. when it does not work 100% anyway, should we remove it completely? (panels off folder)

...

someone should contact allesandro and ask if we can register usboverdrive already on the CD.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 05:09:50 PM by IIO »
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #613 on: May 20, 2018, 11:27:05 PM »
Ah I see I forgot to empty the trash probably when fixing some CD extras. Run the USB overdrive installer when you are booted off the hard disk. Also when it says insert the disk it is probably because the startup items aliases are messed up. When you eject the CD does the apple menu look normal again? Tell you what when I get home I'll work on 7.2.

110, are you copying over the right System Folder? The one just there on the CD has USB overdrive in, and the apple menu is only for tools you need from the CD, but the one from the Macintosh HD image is a completely normal apple menu and does not have usb overdrive installed.

Also I will make the new SIT archive so it contains a disk image so the desktop file will be on there.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 11:45:22 PM by RossDarker »
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #614 on: May 21, 2018, 07:27:35 AM »
110, are you copying over the right System Folder?

no, i am not.

but that was intentionally, just to see what happens.

is it possible to make the boot system folder invisible? it is the first one the user sees.

.

p.s. you´re right, it is the aliases in /startup items, i wasnt thinking about that.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #615 on: May 21, 2018, 07:44:21 AM »
But the add ons to get the Mac mini running are in the separate SIT archive, it's easier than downloading thr whole ISO if you are using a current system. If you use the ISO, only use ASR because it is not supposed to be used by manually copying things.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #616 on: May 21, 2018, 07:53:38 AM »
ASR is great, i dont question the method. i was thinking about this:

the current method to update a mac mini OS without erasing the volume is:

- remove the system file from the system folder
 - delete the system folder from HD
 - mount and open the ASR image file from the CD
 - copy the system folder from the CD to your HD.


can´t this be automated with a an applescript somehow?

it would have to prompt the user with a query/opendialog for which system folder he would like to update (the path must be clear, among other reasons because there could be more than 1 systee moflder on the mini), then perform the above jobs (while making sure that the newly created system folder is blessed, not that applescript somehow brakes this. when you copy manually it is no problem) - and then afterwards do an automatic reboot or only leave one option for the user to reboot now.

then the CD would have an "update my system" option besides the ASR installation method - while using the same files from the disc copy document.

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #617 on: May 21, 2018, 08:02:43 AM »
I guess but adding the new system folder would get rid of any extensions, prefs, panels and other configurations. If that is replacing the whole current one. It takes less time to only download the SIT archive, than the whole new CD, and burning it to use another disc.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #618 on: May 21, 2018, 08:06:35 AM »
yeah of course. solving one problem always causes another.

i thought it could be less work for you to not have to build a parallel "updater" release.

a possible v8 updater might have to be support updating v5 as well as v7 and i dont think you want to assemble "combo updater" sits :D
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #619 on: May 21, 2018, 08:14:53 AM »
If I were to make the updater with Apple Script, to place the files and remove files into/from current locations, I run in to problems. If I tell Apple Script to move the Multiprocessor folder into extensions, if it already exists, the rest of the script is stopped. To prevent this you would delete the Multiprocessing folder, but if it tries to delete it, and it's not there, then the script will fail. I need something like:

if System Folder:Extensions:Multiprocessing exists then
    do nothing
else
   move Multiprocessing folder into System Folder:Extensions
end if

I think there is a "try" isn't there? Like:
try move Multiprocessing into System Folder:Extrensions
on error, leave it in there
on success, move it in there
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #620 on: May 21, 2018, 08:34:47 AM »
hm, and with vise installer maker it is even more complicated (i really hate building installers)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #621 on: May 21, 2018, 08:51:08 AM »
Got it! I'll start working on an updater now.

tell application "Finder"
   try
      select folder "Multiprocessing" of folder "Extensions" of folder "System Folder" of startup disk
      delete selection
      display dialog "Multiprocessing Moved to Trash" buttons {"Continue"}
   on error
      display dialog "Multiprocessing does not exist!" buttons {"Continue"}
   end try
end tell

obviously in the real I would not make it so the user has to click continue, this was just to see which function it would carry out in which situation.

I can use a bunch of these, obviously with different functions, to carry out, and even combo updates. Also, this would only work if you are started up off the system you want to update. So is there a way I can list all the disks mounted, and the user can choose which to update?

And when all files are in the right place:

tell application "Finder"
   display dialog "Successfully updated to V7!" buttons {"Restart"}
   restart
end tell

This looks like...
« Last Edit: May 21, 2018, 09:12:57 AM by RossDarker »
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline DieHard

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #622 on: May 21, 2018, 09:48:55 AM »
I think you guys are way over thinking this, all we need is...

1) The Bootable ISO (Version 7) for those who have never installed Mac OS 9.2.2 on a mac mini and will wipe out the drive

- OR -

2) The Sit File for those that want to patch their favorite OS 9 configuration and then copy it to a mini; it should contain all the documentation, and CURRENT files (Extensions,drivers, and ROM) needed to modify and existing OS 9.2.2 System folder.  The user's of SIT file must at least have the basic knowledge of how to copy files around... no scripts needed :)

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #623 on: May 21, 2018, 10:05:39 AM »
Also, this would only work if you are started up off the system you want to update.

thats true and that was my idea.

i have not yet found an absolute solution for that social problem.

generally, if someone has OS9 on his mini, he will know that and will just turn his computer on.

but will everyone be aware of the fact that a new CD release also contains an updater?

in modern OS´s you download the updates off the internet, either as installer app or directly online. putting an OS update on an installer CD in the fashion of OSX would be a bit overkill for this project.

something which requries to choose from 2 installation versions, full and update, by doubleclicking the one or other item is a fair compromise.

i wish i could contribute but my applescript skills are in the range of my open firmware skills. :)

p.s. if ou dont get the checksumming to skip by scripting, i suggest having a loop which checks if the volume is present about every 4 or 5 seconds and wait until it returns true. making the path available to finder should be the last of all processes when mountung afaik.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #624 on: May 21, 2018, 10:07:00 AM »
well, DH, in 2020 we want to have a DVD which automatically boots and installs OS9 for all machines, dont we.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #625 on: May 21, 2018, 10:13:27 AM »
In the SIT archive, I will put an updater app. This is for updating from any version of the Mac mini OS 9 to v7. For those who want to use the Instant DAW, you do not first run the updater, but simply edit the apple script, and change the first line, which there will be a variable called TARGET, which by default is set to "startup disk", (this makes it so the target is which ever you are booted from.) You can change TARGET variable to equal the name of any disk mounted, and then save it, then the when you run the updater, it will modify that specific disk, so it runs on the mini. How that sound?
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #626 on: May 21, 2018, 10:40:47 AM »
why not get the path with a dialog or by drag and drop? if you need to edit it, it wont work from a write protected volume.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #627 on: May 21, 2018, 12:57:52 PM »
Here is the script so far, it works great, you guys can't run it yet because you need the disk image I have made that contains all the updater files (as the name of the disk "v7 items" is required), but here is the script. (By the way it uses a dialogue box to get what disk you want to update). It first tests if the disk you specify is read only, contains Mac OS 9, and if a disk even exists with the specified name. Also so far only does the "Sleeper" related things, Multiprocessing folder and 1 ATI extension, will work more on this tommorrow:

display dialog "Enter the name of disk you wish to update, exactly how it appears on the desktop:" default answer "" buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
set TARGET_DISK to text returned of result
tell application "Finder"
   try
      select item "test file" of folder "Resources" of disk "v7 Items"
      copy selection to folder "Extensions" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
      select item "test file" of folder "Extensions" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
      delete selection
      display dialog "Update will perform on the disk " & TARGET_DISK & "!" buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
      try
         select folder "Multiprocessing" of folder "Extensions" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
         delete selection
         display dialog "Multiprocessing folder exists, replacing with new one...!" buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
      on error
         display dialog "Multiprocessing does not exist, adding in new one...!" buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
      end try
      select folder "Multiprocessing" of folder "Resources" of disk "v7 Items"
      copy selection to folder "Extensions" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
      try
         select item "Energy Saver" of folder "Control Panels" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
         delete selection
         display dialog "Energy Saver existed, deleting...!" buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
      on error
         display dialog "Energy Saver does not exist, adding in Sleeper!" buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
      end try
      try
         select item "Sleeper" of folder "Control Panels" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
         display dialog "Sleeper already exists, does not need adding in!" buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
      on error
         display dialog "Sleeper getting added..." buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
         select item "Sleeper" of folder "Resources" of disk "v7 Items"
         copy selection to folder "Control Panels" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
      end try
      try
         select item "Energy Settings" of folder "Control Strip Modules" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
         delete selection
         display dialog "Energy Settings Strip Module exists, deleting...!" buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
      on error
         display dialog "Energy Settings Strip Module does not exist, adding in Sleeper Module!" buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
      end try
      try
         select item "Sleeper Strip" of folder "Control Strip Modules" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
         display dialog "Sleeper Module already exists, does not need adding in!" buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
      on error
         display dialog "Sleeper Module getting added..." buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
         select item "Sleeper Strip" of folder "Resources" of disk "v7 Items"
         copy selection to folder "Control Strip Modules" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
      end try
      try
         select item "Sleeper osax" of folder "Scripting Additions" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
         display dialog "Sleeper osax, already exists, does not need adding in!" buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
      on error
         display dialog "Sleeper osax, does not exist, adding it in..." buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
         select item "Sleeper osax" of folder "Resources" of disk "v7 Items"
         copy selection to folder "Scripting Additions" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
      end try
      try
         select item "ATI 3D Accelerator" of folder "Extensions" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
         display dialog "ATI 3D Accelerator exists, updating it..." buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
         delete selection
         select item "ATI 3D Accelerator" of folder "ATI" of folder "Resources" of disk "v7 Items"
         copy selection to folder "Extensions" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
      on error
         display dialog "ATI 3D Accelerator does not exist, adding it in..." buttons {"Continue"} default button "Continue"
         select item "ATI 3D Accelerator" of folder "ATI" of folder "Resources" of disk "v7 Items"
         copy selection to folder "Extensions" of folder "System Folder" of disk TARGET_DISK
      end try
      display dialog "Successfully updated " & TARGET_DISK & " to V7!" buttons {"Restart"} default button "Restart"
      restart
   on error
      display dialog "The disk named " & TARGET_DISK & ", either does not have Mac OS 9 on, does not exist, or is read only!" buttons {"Cancel Update"} default button "Cancel Update"
   end try
end tell
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline music skidder

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
  • New Member
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #628 on: May 21, 2018, 01:53:54 PM »
Hello all, trying to follow this. I am not a real code guy but clever! I have a Mini 1.5 and trying to install os9 for Studio Vision projects.

My Mac is available if you need for me to beta anything!

Cheers...

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #629 on: May 21, 2018, 03:34:36 PM »
i see you are driving it even further and make it a generic file merger util, thats great :)
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #630 on: May 22, 2018, 11:25:46 AM »
New SIT archive, contains updater app, I made in apple script. You should put this in the Mac mini download folder Diehard. This updates ANY disk you specify. The disk you update needs to have Mac OS 9 on, in any configuration. This app makes it run on a Mac mini, and has all the latest stuff (v7), whilst keeping the rest of the System Folder and the hard disk of the existing disk.

little demo of me updating from a v5 install to v7...
https://youtu.be/BHqGZATBLBk

Attached is the SIT.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2018, 12:29:42 PM by RossDarker »
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #631 on: May 22, 2018, 07:00:26 PM »
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline widdly

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 28
  • Beige G3, Alchemy, Turbosynth, Sounddiver, K2000r
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #632 on: May 23, 2018, 02:50:49 AM »
My Mac mini 1.25 arrived last night and is running OS9 like a champ.  Thanks everyone for their hard work.   :D

Offline DieHard

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #633 on: May 23, 2018, 11:50:31 AM »
New SIT archive, contains updater app, I made in apple script. You should put this in the Mac mini download folder Diehard. This updates ANY disk you specify. The disk you update needs to have Mac OS 9 on, in any configuration. This app makes it run on a Mac mini, and has all the latest stuff (v7), whilst keeping the rest of the System Folder and the hard disk of the existing disk.

little demo of me updating from a v5 install to v7...
https://youtu.be/BHqGZATBLBk

Attached is the SIT.

Diehard sips his coffee... then reads this... then realizes that some sacrifice so much to make life easy for others (or at least for those who own a mac mini)... thank you Ross, from the bottom of my cold, black heart

Offline music skidder

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
  • New Member
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #634 on: May 23, 2018, 04:11:19 PM »
Yup, up and running with v7! 👍

Effortless!,,

Next was to dual boot with tiger. What a mess! Have to use option key to recognize 9 build...

Should have stayed with 9solo.

Don’t know it Keyspan serial adaptor will work for Opcode Studio 4. Getting glitchy with USB in the v7.

Maybe a USB audio interface will fix sound control?


Offline macStuff

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1356
  • http://www.OldschoolDAW.com
    • OldschoolDAW.com
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #635 on: May 23, 2018, 07:57:29 PM »
well Done RossDarker  ;D

Offline ELN

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 276
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #636 on: May 25, 2018, 12:45:20 AM »
Expect me to be a bit quiet for a while. I haven't had much luck troubleshooting the minor problems with the mini, so I'd rather leave these to others.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #637 on: May 25, 2018, 10:12:31 PM »
did some more test including one unintended error and found something funny.

i have applied the updater script to my personal OS9 folder from my main mac again, but this time on the mini itself.

in my personal OS9 folder things like quicktime and ATI are not at their default path; i removed them out of their folder.

the updater script seems to ignore the missing path at /extensions/ATI/ and just didnt copy the minified ATI files.

so, after rebooting into the new system, as exspected, the monitor went black right after the extensions finished loading.

but now to what is questionable. :)

to fix the wrong ATI drivers i booted into the vanilla mini OS, added the minified drivers to the new system folder, and booted into the new system.

now the monitor works in the new system - but the 2D accelleration is gone.

okay, maybe another user error i thought, and bootet back to the vanilla mini OS.

after the desktop showed up, the mouse now blinks and updates its position only every 2 seconds. finder windows take ages to draw and are almost inaccessible. when moving the mouse over a menubar menu, inside the opened menu the mouse speed is back to normal, out again over the desktop, and it runs in 0.5 "FPS" mode again.

only after another reboot the vanilla OS is now back again to normal operation.

regarding the new OS i have no idea what is wrong there which prevents proper 2d accelleration...

...


then i was playing a bit with the startup disk issue on a dual boot mini.

if you have 2 volumes on the internal HD and both have a Mac OS 9 folder, you can not boot from the second one via controlpanel, you must always use the boot manager, just as with an OSX/OS9 dual boot install.

the weird thing is, when you only have one system folder on the (technically) second partition (and no system on the first partition), THIS is found...



"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #638 on: May 26, 2018, 02:43:31 AM »
110, if you are using the UNFINISHED and incomplete script from post #627 your description makes sense, do NOT use that, use the one from #630 as that 100% works, and is finished. If you are using the one from #630, all I can say is that you are wrong and that the updater DOES work. The amount of times I tested it, made sure that it copies everything over to make it v7. If it TOLD you to restart, then it will have definately copied EVERYTHING required, including ATI extensions. If it said at any point your disk does not contain Mac OS 9, then that means it did not work.  If it TELLS you to restart, then go and click the restart button. If it does not, then don't restart manually. It just does work there is no reason why it does not work. Again, if you are running the APPLICATION from the DISK IMAGE from post #630, it 100% works.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 03:59:47 AM by RossDarker »
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #639 on: May 26, 2018, 03:59:21 PM »
i used the right one.

it turned out that you can make the installation fail when you try to hit that little triangle shaped button to see "more" in the "copying files" dialog window.

i am always pushing the limits, even where it does make any sense. :D
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #640 on: May 26, 2018, 04:06:05 PM »
Okay, I see maybe because it doesn't do all the files at the same time (wouldn't be possible the way it checks if the file exists already), so when you expand one it finishes it then moves on to the next file. But yeah at the end of the updater when it briefly opens the system folder then closes it, on the target disk, this is the way I got the system folder to become blessed, which was handy.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #641 on: May 26, 2018, 04:52:48 PM »
yeah, i noticed that. even if there would be a specific applescript command it would be best do to do it like this.

i just tried to modify a german 9.2.2. it boots. but i dont do any deeper tests because i dont really care.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline solderwire

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Mac mini G4 and iBook G3 (Dual USB)
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #642 on: May 26, 2018, 09:59:04 PM »
yeah, i noticed that. even if there would be a specific applescript command it would be best do to do it like this.

i just tried to modify a german 9.2.2. it boots. but i dont do any deeper tests because i dont really care.
I modified a Simplified Chinese 9.2.2, now it works well on my mini. I replaced the ROM, graphics, FireWire and USB drivers using the drivers from the RossDarker's mini CD. You have to replace the Apple Enet extension too, otherwise you will have a wrong IP address.
Mac mini G4 and iBook G3 (Dual USB)

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #643 on: May 27, 2018, 07:24:58 AM »
FireWire and USB drivers using the drivers from the RossDarker's mini CD. You have to replace the Apple Enet extension too, otherwise you will have a wrong IP address.

that iss releated to the "CPU software" version, right? so a localized latest-CPU-version would do, too?

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline solderwire

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Mac mini G4 and iBook G3 (Dual USB)
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #644 on: May 28, 2018, 08:42:16 AM »
FireWire and USB drivers using the drivers from the RossDarker's mini CD. You have to replace the Apple Enet extension too, otherwise you will have a wrong IP address.

that iss releated to the "CPU software" version, right? so a localized latest-CPU-version would do, too?
I think it will work properly. You're lucky because you can get a localized 9.2.2 with latest CPU SW... Chinese version of 9.2.2 install/restore CDs with ROM version higher than 9.0.1 are lost...
Mac mini G4 and iBook G3 (Dual USB)

Offline macStuff

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1356
  • http://www.OldschoolDAW.com
    • OldschoolDAW.com
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #645 on: May 28, 2018, 09:20:37 AM »
what do u mean they are lost? lost to some maybe but not everyone
the chinese installers should be part of the "mac os anthology"
that you can find on the net
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/81-mac-os-anthology-1999-2000-2001-

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #646 on: May 29, 2018, 06:45:11 AM »
i am not sure what the OS9General.dmg of a chinese retail OSX contains. :) but you could fill the missing gaps with the US versions, and in cases where the filename matters (probably not for networtk drivers) eventually just rename them to your language.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline solderwire

  • Active Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Mac mini G4 and iBook G3 (Dual USB)
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #647 on: May 29, 2018, 10:27:52 AM »
what do u mean they are lost? lost to some maybe but not everyone
the chinese installers should be part of the "mac os anthology"
that you can find on the net
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/81-mac-os-anthology-1999-2000-2001-
The Anthology is still incomplete. For example, the Chinese SSW 7.0 is missing, and the Chinese Mac OS 8.1 refuses to boot on 68k Machines, it says it is PowerPC-specific.
Mac mini G4 and iBook G3 (Dual USB)

Offline macStuff

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1356
  • http://www.OldschoolDAW.com
    • OldschoolDAW.com
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #648 on: May 29, 2018, 11:32:02 PM »
seriously? theres so many languages.. i cant see how they would skip chinese when theres so many chinese people in the world

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #649 on: May 30, 2018, 01:20:53 AM »
Got a new ISO guys, still called v7, if you are already running v7, don't bother with this one as it is an update to the CD only, which fixed a few errors, such as Bugdom and Classilla not being able to copy over, and I have also added a couple icons onto some folders on the CD. Base system is same as before, but a much better CD than the last one.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JtsVSVlWDOAjZBeZnVOP3chdS3spJzLf/view?usp=sharing

Latest Version of Mac mini Full Version7 ISO Here and optional SIT Archive for those who want to manually patch a current OS 9 system:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4365.0.html
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 01:34:17 PM by DieHard »
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline darthnVader

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • New Member
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #650 on: May 30, 2018, 06:48:58 AM »
Anyone have QuickbenchX, I'm checking Firewire throughput on the Mini under OS9 vs OS X?

Offline darthnVader

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 511
  • New Member
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #651 on: May 31, 2018, 01:45:53 PM »
Boy, I must be a thread killer, first I completely killed the VC section, now I'm killing this one. :P

Offline Hyram

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Y-y-yes, Mis-ter Tracy!
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #652 on: June 06, 2018, 11:35:37 AM »
Just reporting in to, well, report in that I've been successful with my G4 1.42 darling!



She's a stock first-run 1.42, except the drive is a 32 GB mSATA in a conversion enclosure I nabbed from fleabay a while ago for under $10, and it makes this little lunchbox run super-slick.

Kudos to all contributors!

I'll be digging through my archives to see what other useful goodies I can add ... fairly certain I have a copy of os9vnc and Vine around that'd work a treat, a few small but eminently useful CDEVs & INITs ... I'll keep everyone posted with what I find works.

BTW, why does it think it is a G4 Cube? Wouldn't it be a nice touch to hack that in somewhere? :)


H
"What's your opinion Brains?" "I'm afraid music in the modern idiom is too repetitive for my taste, al-although the rhythm has a certain hypnotic effect."

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #653 on: June 06, 2018, 12:31:12 PM »
I think it's a G4 Cube in System Profiler because when it was set to Mac mini, I believe it would shut down randomly, maybe because it thought it was an iBook (?)

By the way, you did use Apple Software Restore app from the CD to install right? I'm guessing you did that then copied the whole CD Extras folder and the Read Me from the CD right? If you didn't use Apple Software Restore, use that as that will give you a complete folder. But you probably did use Apple Software Restore so it's fine.

It's good to see.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline FdB

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 551
  • And then...
Mac mini G4 mSATA
« Reply #654 on: June 06, 2018, 02:02:46 PM »
Whaaaat?

An mSATA in a Mac Mini! WOWZA.
 8) 8) 8)Would REALLY like to know which mSATA & conversion enclosure… and what your Read/Write stats are?

And no darth, ya didn’t kill the thread. Any luck with the FW QuickBench results? (MacBench too?)

WELCOME HYRAM!

…and 1GB DDR 400 CL3 / ASR reports as PC133 CL3?
This Must Be The Place

Offline Hyram

  • Valued Member (10+ Posts)
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Y-y-yes, Mis-ter Tracy!
Re: Mac mini G4 mSATA
« Reply #655 on: June 06, 2018, 03:37:14 PM »
I think it's a G4 Cube in System Profiler because when it was set to Mac mini, I believe it would shut down randomly, maybe because it thought it was an iBook

Wuh-eeeeeird.

Quote
By the way, you did use Apple Software Restore app from the CD to install right? I'm guessing you did that then copied the whole CD Extras folder and the Read Me from the CD right?

Right on all counts.

Would REALLY like to know which mSATA & conversion enclosure

I forget the model-number of the mSATA drive, but its an older Samsung. I've had excellent success SSDifying my old lovelies with this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/381616689178

The only drawback I've encountered with it is the fact its plastic case is 9.5mm thick, so for a couple of laptops I've had to grind it back with sandpaper until it fits a tight 9mm bay.

Quote
… and what your Read/Write stats are?

Cut me some slack boyo, this is a newborn sucking at the teat!  :P  I never really got into stats or worried about speed when pre-X was my daily driver, what tool(s) would you suggest?

Quote
WELCOME HYRAM!

Graci!

Quote
…and 1GB DDR 400 CL3 / ASR reports as PC133 CL3?

I admit that's a smidge confusing :)

All in all its a sterling effort, but t'would be nice ice if Profiler actually told the truth, wot? How else are we going to brag about our success! :P


H
"What's your opinion Brains?" "I'm afraid music in the modern idiom is too repetitive for my taste, al-although the rhythm has a certain hypnotic effect."

Offline FdB

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 551
  • And then...
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #656 on: June 06, 2018, 05:17:26 PM »
Apologies for any un-intended pressure(s).

Currently weighing performance/choice/costs of DOM vs. mSATA and an Ableconn “sled” adapter. Concerns about possible added *heat from enclosures vs. the open “sleds” and the solo mini fan. See: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4435.0.html? (come on over) for more background info. (I’ve ordered the Zheino 120GB - maybe overkill and the Ableconn.)

*Thinking that the open sled will dissipate any possible added heat, mo’ bettah?

There was a somewhat informal poll here (fairly recent) concerning just what Model name should be used. (Read back, this thread, I think.) Also, maybe Ross meant to say “if” it was set to “Mac mini” › then "confused" random shut downs might occur?

Probably will run MacBench 3.0 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macbench-30 on the 1.5 GHz mini here before… and after the install of the Zheino. AND… check operating temps before and after the install.

Now I’ll need to check/research which chipset your adapter uses. Marvell or the JM20330?

$7.56 for your adapter vs. $28.99 for the Ableconn (Marvell chipset). Ninester’s Aneew adapter (with JM20330 chipset) came in @ $11.49.

OS X partition reports 1GB RAM... correctly.

Personally, I’d like the Profiler to note mine as “Godzilla”! ;)
This Must Be The Place

Offline FdB

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 551
  • And then...
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #657 on: June 06, 2018, 05:44:30 PM »
Ahhh, one can see the JM20330 chip in the close-up image on your eBay link.
Sales of sandpaper rises.
This Must Be The Place

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac mini G4 mSATA
« Reply #658 on: June 06, 2018, 07:13:41 PM »
I think it's a G4 Cube in System Profiler because when it was set to Mac mini, I believe it would shut down randomly, maybe because it thought it was an iBook

Wuh-eeeeeird.

gestalt pro: can even report what it would like to be.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #659 on: June 07, 2018, 01:11:59 PM »
This is an explanation from a few weeks back:
PS why does ELN make the ROM change the Compatibility and Model properties to PowerMac5,1? I would personally just leave it be as PowerMac10,1... but im curious why he changes it to that of the Cube?

  The issue that arose on my Mini at random, and presumably would have on everyone else's eventually, was that OS 9 believed the Mini was an iBook and would automatically shut down to protect itself when it erroneously 'detected' the presence of a depleted battery and thinking it was running only on battery.  This may have been partially related to the hacked handling of the PMU, which was required to get this machine going in the first place, but as it stood would have made further testing next to impossible.  The simplest fix for now was to force the machine model to be detected as a non-portable type, which ELN selected to be the Cube as cute and mildly appropriate designation - it's the most similar 'flavor' of machine type/packaging, you might say a 'baby cube'/'son of a cube'/cube junior'.

  When the underlying issues get figured out, sure, it would be lovely to have the OS display a proper identity for the PowerMac10,1.  That would likely require more complex changes to prevent the 'portable phantom battery' behavior from happening, but for now we're served sufficiently well with the "Cube" designation for the sake of working through the rest of the major fixes we need to accomplish (minor remaining video bugs, correct sound device handling in control panel, better PMU support).  To some extent the Mini is a learning exercise that will help with compatibility fixes on other machines too, so the more stable a test bed right now, the better.

I actually got the random shutdown back in March too, when using the older ROMs.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline ELN

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 276
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #660 on: June 07, 2018, 05:13:59 PM »
MacOS Plus was spot on there.

I got the mini booting by filling the ROM with log spam and diving into those calls that would crash the machine. In that process I managed to fix two major incompatibilities:
  • The CPU Plugin for the G4 expects THRM registers and crashes without them
  • The Native Power Manager requires some opaque info from Open Firmware (I really just spoofed this, inexpertly)

More airy-fairy stuff, like subtle hardware incompatibility, is still beyond my ability to debug. I can’t possibly track down all code that special-cases based on machine ID, so for now I have just chosen something roughly appropriate-looking. (I am strongly considering creating a brand-new machine ID to clear out the cobwebs.)

I do have a pretty decent build system that I am more than happy to share, to help with, or just to run on request. It is useful even just to make changes to the Open Firmware script a la iMic. So if anyone on the board wants to tinker but needs help getting started — or if they know someone who might — then get in touch!

Offline Ninester

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 67
  • New Member
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #661 on: June 07, 2018, 08:49:25 PM »
Nice! My flea bay mini 1.43 – 512Mb ram – 80GB Seagate made it in yesterday. Installed OS9 with two partitions, 9 in one, Tiger in the other partition mainly for housekeeping.

Using M$ wired mouse and dell keyboard no issues, old powered speakers for sound.

As noted always wants to boot into Tiger unless I use the option key.  OS9 startup utility sees Tiger, Tiger does not see OS9 in the start up utility.

Time is being offset +5 hours when booting back into OS 9 from Tiger. Quickly reset using time sever. Lol, erase Tiger, should fix all the niggles.

I copied the completely installed OS 9 folder to a backup drive. Would there be any issues to drag and drop if I hose OS9?  Will the drive folder always to remain named “Macintosh HD”?

Anyway, thanks to all for your hard work!

Offline steppentier

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
  • New Member
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #662 on: June 10, 2018, 03:42:49 AM »
Booting OS9 from Firewire drive isn't working, right?

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #663 on: June 10, 2018, 03:46:33 AM »
I boot from FireWire drives a lot actually, make sure the partition is not too big, and you definitely got the OS 9 drivers on the whole disk.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline steppentier

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
  • New Member
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #664 on: June 10, 2018, 04:02:21 AM »
Strange thing. I'm plugged same FW drive to Cube G4 (not booting from that, only mounted) and ejected.
After that, plugged again to mac-mini with v7 patched OS9 and on boot screen i can select now the external FW drive OS9 partition (before that it was invisible in boot screen).
Booting works fine now and i'm happy :)

I had problems with another FW case, but with this one, OS9 booting was not working on Cube G4 too.
So, maybe it must reconfig it with Oxford update tool (java app).

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #665 on: June 10, 2018, 12:02:35 PM »
I've often had FireWire drivers not showing when holding down the option key. I find the way around is to either press the "Reload" button, turn the drive off or on again, or to restart with it on/off then turn it on if it was off. With my LaCie disk, it's always nice when I press the reload button, and I see the light on the front start flashing rapidly and hear the disk spin up, then it shows up. I guess it's luck. I find selecting the startup disk from OS 9 an easier way, that's if you have it available of course.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #666 on: June 10, 2018, 12:06:28 PM »
About firewire, anyone know which extensions or what's required to format a FW drive from the Mac mini CD, not the installed OS, but from the live CD. Like when you open drive setup, FW disks are <not supported>, but from within the OS you can do what you want with them in drive setup.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #667 on: June 10, 2018, 12:45:07 PM »
About firewire, anyone know which extensions or what's required to format a FW drive from the Mac mini CD, not the installed OS, but from the live CD. Like when you open drive setup, FW disks are <not supported>, but from within the OS you can do what you want with them in drive setup.

i never noticed that this doesnt work from a CD (how would i).  maybe just a missing extension?

otherwise what about copying drive setup to the freshly formatted internal HD and run it from there?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #668 on: June 10, 2018, 12:46:46 PM »
Wait a second it turns out it it is <not supported> in the OS from hard disk as well, on the Mac mini at least. I can use drive setup on FW drives from my Titanium PowerBook, but not the Mac mini, so maybe it's hardware.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #669 on: June 10, 2018, 12:55:13 PM »
you tried that with a drive with OS9 drivers already installed?
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #670 on: June 10, 2018, 01:09:24 PM »
Yeah it's the same disk from both machines, OS 9 drivers present, as sometimes I startup from the disk.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline DieHard

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1665
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #671 on: June 10, 2018, 09:08:52 PM »
As Mactron Mentioned (see the below link), you have to use a slightly older version of drive setup to partition/format FW drives, the 2.1 version in 9.2.2 is total crap when it comes to FW drives

Info Here
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,4154.msg28836.html#msg28836

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #672 on: June 11, 2018, 08:26:42 AM »
Diehard, I did actually include both versions of drive setup on the Mac mini CD (1.9.2 and 2.1), the one that opens when you startup is 2.1, but 1.9.2 is found in:

Mac mini OS 9 CD:Applications:Drive Setup 1.9.2

And that is cool, with 1.9.2, I can initialise FW disks from the Mac mini.

Although, the version of drive setup on my Titanium PowerBook is v2.1, and that can format FW drives, but only on the ti and not the mini. (don't have any other os 9 machines to test)

But for now then if you need to restore the Mac mini System onto a FW disk, from the Mac mini, you need to use Drive Setup 1.9.2 in the Applications folder in the CD to do it, to initialise it.
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2180
  • new to the forums
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #673 on: June 11, 2018, 08:36:20 AM »
right, that would be the next step; using an older version of drive setup.

but i wonder why things like that do sometimes work and sometimes not.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline RossDarker

  • Gold Member (200+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 228
Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #674 on: June 11, 2018, 08:52:35 AM »
When I had drive setup 1.9.2 open at startup, it would open it the top left, and then get covered by the read me file when that opens. With 2.1 it opens in the middle, so does not get covered, and so I decided to make it so 2.1 opens at startup instead. If I were to swap it for 1.9.2, for better Mac mini support, how would I make it open the window in the centre like in 2.1, instead of the top left?
Dunking a biscuit is one of life's greatest joys.