Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts) (Read 404457 times)

smilesdavis · « **Reply #1350 on:** September 15, 2022, 01:44:52 AM »

the biggest problem with the mini i have is that it doesnt have a pci bus controller. there a way to add one? solder one on? because for professional use the mini would be perfect just a sound card that has word clock is hard to hook up with it.

teroyk · « **Reply #1351 on:** September 19, 2022, 07:36:45 AM »

Quote from: smilesdavis on September 15, 2022, 01:44:52 AM

the biggest problem with the mini i have is that it doesnt have a pci bus controller. there a way to add one? solder one on? because for professional use the mini would be perfect just a sound card that has word clock is hard to hook up with it.

Some Firewire sound "cards" has word clock...but question is is there any USB sound "cards" with word clock?

IIO · « **Reply #1352 on:** September 20, 2022, 05:51:02 AM »

i think most have. motu, digidesign, RME all have BNC clock in and out.

smilesdavis · « **Reply #1353 on:** September 20, 2022, 06:09:34 AM »

os9 compatible?

IIO · « **Reply #1354 on:** September 20, 2022, 08:17:40 AM »

word clock was more around back in the days than it is today. i am not aware of interfaces which dont have it.

Metrophage · « **Reply #1355 on:** September 21, 2022, 02:57:37 PM »

Hey! It's me again, back to struggle with my borky systems!

I'd recently found my mini G4 1.42 again. It set up fine last time, but I had only a small drive to play with at the time so didn't make much use of it. Its optical drive is broken so IIRC I did the initial install in target disk mode.

So, I waited to long to buy an OWC SSD and didn't pay close attention to the fact that their current "Legacy" drives are only for desktop use. I ordered some generic low-profile SATA connverters for 44-pin IDE, but had a night of agonizing flakiness as installs would hang. Subsequent boots saw the new drive losing capacity and partitions. It started being seen by the system as 512GB, turned into 128GB, and eventually 7.9GB... So I'm guessing that this adaptor - which has no switches or jumpers - isn't adapting well enough for what the system expects. So I ordered a cheap NOS 160GB rotational drive instead.

Why I gravitated to the OWC was that it sounds like their drives are intended for use in systems which weren't initially available with SSDs, with better wear-leveling and garbage collection in the drive itself. I don't know how well that compares in practice, but that's a concern I'd had with using SSDs in my old macs.

So hopefully I'll set this up again soon with dual-boot 9.2/10.4 systems. The old X partition for using old NI Intakt and Kompakt sampler instruments and other ancient PPC stuff I have.

One detail I noticed is that Ross's CD does sort of boot from an external FireWire drive, but then it fails to load the image. I get the "missing drive" icon, but it's the OS 9 version from the CD. I'll probably make a USB stick to install everything next week or so when the drive arrives. Meanwhile I'm going to try to erase this 512GB OWC on my Linux box and maybe try it in my FW800 with the desktop-style adaptor it came with.

IIO · « **Reply #1356 on:** September 21, 2022, 04:19:40 PM »

hey metro,

those generic plastic cases for M2 or NVME should work and might be the cheaper solution.

making an USB was on my to do list - but you know how it goes with those lists. i am sorting cables, PSUs and media since 5 days, it is incredible how much craps fits into a smll aparment.

if you find out how the USB install works let us know.

(but i believe it shoud be fine to copy the installed system, bless it, and burn it with toast to share.)

indibil · « **Reply #1357 on:** October 15, 2022, 06:51:50 AM »

Hello from Spain!!!

I have a Mac Mini G4 at 1.42GHz, and I have installed OS 9.2.2 through the ISO made for this purpose, but I would like to know how I can install OS 9.2.2 in Spanish on the Mac Mini G4.

I have the installation CD in Spanish, but the installation is not patched so that it works on the Mini. Is there any script that, once installed OS 9.2.2 in Spanish, can patch it to work on the Mini? Thanks.

IIO · « **Reply #1358 on:** October 15, 2022, 05:31:06 PM »

this is a reasonable request.

RossDarker · « **Reply #1359 on:** October 16, 2022, 03:09:41 AM »

You should be able to install the Spanish Mac OS 9 onto the Mini over FireWire target disk mode from a compatible machine (or just drag and drop with the right connection) and update that installation to 9.2.2 if needed with the correct language update from Apple.

After that, I had a script which was intended for upgrading those on v8 of the Mac mini System to v9, but it should also work on any standard install of OS 9.2.2 to make it compatible with the Mini; it updates the ROM and has other patches for example.

It’d be best to try the v9 updater on a fresh install of the Spanish OS 9.2.2 just to make sure it all works fine; older versions of the updater would update the System Suitcase, which may have affected the language in some way, I would have to check if this one does that still.

The updater is here

Quote

Update to v9.sit: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbfZEfYgbhWLGK2JY_xbGjlxrvzzWdSX/view?usp=drivesdk

IIO · « **Reply #1360 on:** October 16, 2022, 03:47:05 AM »

ah it would work with the 8->9 updater? i wasnt sure whats "included".

indibil · « **Reply #1361 on:** October 16, 2022, 08:09:05 AM »

Quote from: RossDarker on October 16, 2022, 03:09:41 AM

You should be able to install the Spanish Mac OS 9 onto the Mini over FireWire target disk mode from a compatible machine (or just drag and drop with the right connection) and update that installation to 9.2.2 if needed with the correct language update from Apple.

After that, I had a script which was intended for upgrading those on v8 of the Mac mini System to v9, but it should also work on any standard install of OS 9.2.2 to make it compatible with the Mini; it updates the ROM and has other patches for example.

It’d be best to try the v9 updater on a fresh install of the Spanish OS 9.2.2 just to make sure it all works fine; older versions of the updater would update the System Suitcase, which may have affected the language in some way, I would have to check if this one does that still.

The updater is here
Quote
Update to v9.sit: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbfZEfYgbhWLGK2JY_xbGjlxrvzzWdSX/view?usp=drivesdk

Thank you very much! I have to get another computer to do the target installation and try it out. Perhaps it would work to make 2 partitions, in one install the patched version of 9.2.2. Booting from that OS, and then maybe I could run the installer over the other partition and then apply the V9 patcher. I don't remember if OS 9 allowed to install on another partition without booting from CD.

I try to test it in a few days, now this Mini G4 is my only G4 equipment.

indibil · « **Reply #1362 on:** October 16, 2022, 09:30:16 AM »

Hello, I have connected a Firewire disk and I have installed Mac Os 9.2.2 in Spanish on that hard disk from the Mac Mini 9.2.2 current english installation that i have. After installing, I have executed the V8 to V9 patcher but I get the following message:

"The disc named XXXXXXX, either does not have Mac Os 9 on, does not exist, or is read only!"

Am I doing something wrong? I have copied and pasted the name of the hard drive, there is no error. Could it be because the V7 to V8 patcher is missing?

RossDarker · « **Reply #1363 on:** October 16, 2022, 11:57:22 AM »

Looking at the contents of the v9 updater, it doesn't include the Sleeper control panel or Sleeper related things, so you would need to first use the v8 updater, then the v9 updater, but doesn't look like that will solve the disk problem; not sure why it's saying that.

Have you checked you can actually write to the disk over firewire?
Perhaps try a different name for the disk.

The v8 updater is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17n20BaT_bLgBtsGJwS0D-6sNWJ-Kuluh/view?usp=sharing
which you'd then follow with the v9 updater.

If you still have the disk problem, you could always patch things manually; I just can't quite remember exactly what the scripts remove, it's only clear what they add by looking at the items in the Resources folder.

Another suggestion would be to just replace the ROM from the Spanish install on the Mac mini with the one from the Resources folder in the v9 updater. The Mini would then boot, and you could run both of the updaters in order from the Mini itself to get all the patches.

I should probably make an updater that doesn't depend on previous versions one day, so that it can be used for this exact purpose!

indibil · « **Reply #1364 on:** October 16, 2022, 09:01:33 PM »

Quote from: RossDarker on October 16, 2022, 11:57:22 AM

Looking at the contents of the v9 updater, it doesn't include the Sleeper control panel or Sleeper related things, so you would need to first use the v8 updater, then the v9 updater, but doesn't look like that will solve the disk problem; not sure why it's saying that.

Have you checked you can actually write to the disk over firewire?
Perhaps try a different name for the disk.

The v8 updater is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17n20BaT_bLgBtsGJwS0D-6sNWJ-Kuluh/view?usp=sharing
which you'd then follow with the v9 updater.

If you still have the disk problem, you could always patch things manually; I just can't quite remember exactly what the scripts remove, it's only clear what they add by looking at the items in the Resources folder.

Another suggestion would be to just replace the ROM from the Spanish install on the Mac mini with the one from the Resources folder in the v9 updater. The Mini would then boot, and you could run both of the updaters in order from the Mini itself to get all the patches.

I should probably make an updater that doesn't depend on previous versions one day, so that it can be used for this exact purpose!

Thanks for answering. I have tried the same again with V8 and it shows me the same error. The disk allows me to write without problems, I can copy files. I have then tried to replace the ROM file with the V9 version within Mac OS 9.2.2 Spanish, I have booted by pressing the ALT key and the FW disk has appeared. I have selected it and when booting the diskette with the question mark inside has appeared, and after a few seconds the English OS 9.2.2 has booted. Just changing the ROM file can't boot.

Edit: sometimes it start it but freezes when it shows the desktop.

RossDarker · « **Reply #1365 on:** October 17, 2022, 02:24:41 AM »

Would suggest booting the Mini with the shift key to temporarily disable extensions, sounds like there is an incompatibility somewhere. Maybe some extensions from the Spanish OS 9 being used are different versions to the ones on the standard system that is restored.

Even though the v9 ROM doesn’t require OS 9 drivers, it’s probably still a good idea to have them on the disk (since v8 is involved too at some stage) with a reformat from Mac OS 9.

Once you’re able to get to the desktop and run the updaters, it should be enough.

zefrenchtoon · « **Reply #1366 on:** October 17, 2022, 03:29:35 AM »

Hello!

If the Spanish version of OS9 is in the same shape of the French one, you will have to be careful about ATI drivers.
On french version of MacOS, Apple translated the filenames of extensions / control panels so if you try to install updated drivers (which usually are in EN-US language), you will get some files in double because of their differents names (i.e. the old one whith spanish name and the new one with english name) and this cause several crashes.

indibil · « **Reply #1367 on:** October 17, 2022, 07:22:40 AM »

Quote from: zefrenchtoon on October 17, 2022, 03:29:35 AM

Hello!

If the Spanish version of OS9 is in the same shape of the French one, you will have to be careful about ATI drivers.
On french version of MacOS, Apple translated the filenames of extensions / control panels so if you try to install updated drivers (which usually are in EN-US language), you will get some files in double because of their differents names (i.e. the old one whith spanish name and the new one with english name) and this cause several crashes.

Thanks for the warning. I have looked and the two installed ATI kext are in English, like the ones in the patch. I have taken the opportunity to add all the new kext manually.

Quote from: RossDarker on October 17, 2022, 02:24:41 AM

Would suggest booting the Mini with the shift key to temporarily disable extensions, sounds like there is an incompatibility somewhere. Maybe some extensions from the Spanish OS 9 being used are different versions to the ones on the standard system that is restored.

Even though the v9 ROM doesn’t require OS 9 drivers, it’s probably still a good idea to have them on the disk (since v8 is involved too at some stage) with a reformat from Mac OS 9.

Once you’re able to get to the desktop and run the updaters, it should be enough.

I have a bug on me. I tell you. I've booted up by pressing shift to disable the extensions. With the extensions disabled the patches are not executed, they must need something that is deactivated. I have tried to boot without shift but it crashes, so what I have done is add the V8 patch in "Startup Items" and when booting it has been executed, I have inserted the hard disk, and the same error message has appeared. Can it be my Firewire drive's fault? I can write and delete on it, but the patch gives that error.

IIO · « **Reply #1368 on:** October 17, 2022, 07:30:40 AM »

yep, there is also the risk that something requries stuff to have certain names. it begins with simple things like the quicktime updaters.

zefrenchtoon · « **Reply #1369 on:** October 17, 2022, 07:49:36 AM »

IIRC, Apple did the same mess (filenames' translation) with QuickTime INITs $:-\$ (and not kext

)

In fact, Apple did it on every System component, event the System suitcase (called "Système" in French) but not with the Finder fortunately

That's why, It is quite a pity to get a French MacOS really up-to-date

jackoverfull · « **Reply #1370 on:** October 17, 2022, 09:00:08 AM »

Honestly I gave up on Italian Mac OS 9 long ago: the added issues are just not worth it for me.

RossDarker · « **Reply #1371 on:** October 17, 2022, 09:07:47 AM »

Quote from: zefrenchtoon on October 17, 2022, 07:49:36 AM

In fact, Apple did it on every System component, event the System suitcase (called "Système" in French) but not with the Finder fortunately

Probably something like this is why the script is not detecting Mac OS 9 installed. From the other posts though, it sounds like there could be other issues.

indibil · « **Reply #1372 on:** October 17, 2022, 09:14:09 PM »

Since the first installation in Spanish was done with a CD that directly installed 9.2.2 for iMac, I did the "correct" installation again from 9.0.4->9.1->9.2.1->9.2.2. this installation has more extensions, including ATI, and with names in Spanish. I changed the ROM file and ATI extensions to it, booted from it to apply the V8 patch, but got the same error.

I'm afraid it won't be easy, I haven't used OS 9 for many years, I discovered it with my G4 Gigabite in 2000 and the shine of OS X made me forget it little by little. Now over the years I value that "simplicity", it amuses me to be able to surf the internet with OS 9, it's so charming. I even keep dozens of CDs and DVDs with software that i have saved, and that I am going to rescue from oblivion

IIO · « **Reply #1373 on:** October 19, 2022, 01:30:17 PM »

general advice when you assemble system folders manually: make use of the label colors in finder.

i.e. install something, then, before you do anything else, mark all the items in /extensions blue, so that you can later easily identify which items are new.

soviet9922 · « **Reply #1374 on:** December 08, 2022, 11:28:13 AM »

Hi, installed and works so well is even faster than my mdd !, the mac mini is a monster performer on os9

.
But the sound is saturated like when you have a set of speakers way past the max volume.
But my speakers are ok.

Maybe someone knows how to fix this?

DieHard · « **Reply #1375 on:** December 08, 2022, 12:43:53 PM »

Quote

But the sound is saturated like when you have a set of speakers way past the max volume.
But my speakers are ok.

Maybe someone knows how to fix this?

Many cheap alternatives are available, this is documented way too many times to reiterate, just read some posts for USB solutions

soviet9922 · « **Reply #1376 on:** December 08, 2022, 05:52:05 PM »

Thanks, took a random generic usb audio thingy from a drawer and it work right out

nex86 · « **Reply #1377 on:** December 17, 2022, 02:06:16 PM »

great work so far, I'm running Version 9 on Mac Mini G4 1.5ghz
but I'm having an issue with volume control..
sound works, but volume is stuck at 1% and I can't seem to turn it up.

I made a video to demonstrate the issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-RtD_XnbKg

how to I fix this?

FBz · « **Reply #1378 on:** December 17, 2022, 10:02:50 PM »

See: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5952.0.html

gregbuchner · « **Reply #1379 on:** January 09, 2023, 05:40:58 PM »

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all of this. I read about Mac OS 9 on Mac Mini's a few months back, finding it by accident, and this became a goal of mine. I had two PowerMac G4's, a Digital Audio (upgraded with dual 1.6 GHz G4s) and a MDD Wind Tunnel. But I could no longer stand the noise from the Wind Tunnel and something happened with the processor card on the DA model. I thought I was sunk on getting a working G4 with native OS 9 support until I saw this.

So bought a 1.42 GHz Mini on eBay (couldn't find a 1.5 GHz model), bought a PATA SSD and a 1 GB RAM stick. Burned the Ross's CD (a few copies just in case). Well, the G4 came today, disassembled it, put in the SSD and the 1 GB RAM, and the booted off of the CD.

Booted successfully there, formatted the drive with the disk utility, did the restore, selected the SSD for the Startup Disk and away it went.

Issues I experienced (so far):
1. Original mouse I was using did not work. Grabbed an Apple mouse (the one with the little trackball) and it worked, but I think I need a mousepad for it.
2. Couldn't get networking to work yet. I wonder if something on my switch isn't supporting 10/100 Ethernet. I'll have to dig into that a bit more.

Pluses:
1. It supports my 1920x1200 display via DVI with no issues.
2. Cheap USB keyboard worked with no issues.

To come:
1. Will it work with my KVM? Hoping, but won't be too disappointed if it doesn't. The G4 Windtunnel didn't...
2. I'm glad I kept some old FW cases around, I have ones that are FW400. I'll have at least that as a minimum to move the games I want to play from the Windtunnel to the Mini.
3. Audio (yep, read about the USB audio options.)

Hardware:
RAM: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VN1U3PM?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
SSD (128 GB): https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0091T4ZWU?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Yes, I know the issues with TRIM, but I'm not going to put much on there and I'm probably not going to be creating/deleting a lot of files.

Does anyone have a preferred hub to get more USB ports for the Mini? I think all of mine are USB 2 or later.

Thanks again for all of this work. Sometimes old stuff is just more entertaining. It's why I still have all of my old Apple II stuff.

Now, is there a good ADB to USB adapter where I could use the Apple Extended ADB keyboard and ADB mouse with the Mini?

jackoverfull · « **Reply #1380 on:** January 09, 2023, 09:56:22 PM »

Regarding your original mouse, have you tried installing USB Overdrive?

Bolkonskij · « **Reply #1381 on:** January 10, 2023, 03:04:30 AM »

Thanks for sharing your story!

Don't worry about TRIM. OS9 isn't in the habit of constantly writing to disk (if you keep Virtual Memory off; which is advisable) like some other Apple branded OS (not naming any names). I've got an SSD in my G4 for three years now and it sees daily use and no problems whatsoever ...

As for a hub, I just use a "Delock 87445 USB 2.0 4 Port" that works just fine with my printer, speakers and Christmas lights plugged into it ;-)

gregbuchner · « **Reply #1382 on:** January 11, 2023, 09:32:03 AM »

Quote from: jackoverfull on January 09, 2023, 09:56:22 PM

Regarding your original mouse, have you tried installing USB Overdrive?

Yes, did install it, just haven't had a chance to play too much with things since then. Work can be a PITA when Microsoft screws up your organization for the day by mysteriously deactivating paid for licenses.

And my G4 MDD apparently died so now I have to figure out if I have a FireWire or USB adapter to PATA drives around so I can move data. I think I had one or two in the past, but no idea where they are.

gregbuchner · « **Reply #1383 on:** January 11, 2023, 09:36:47 AM »

Quote from: Bolkonskij on January 10, 2023, 03:04:30 AM

Don't worry about TRIM. OS9 isn't in the habit of constantly writing to disk (if you keep Virtual Memory off; which is advisable) like some other Apple branded OS (not naming any names).

As for a hub, I just use a "Delock 87445 USB 2.0 4 Port" that works just fine with my printer, speakers and Christmas lights plugged into it ;-)

I wasn't too worried and yes, I had no plans to turn on Virtual Memory. With OS 9 taking up about 60 some MB of my 1 GB, I don't think it's needed. Although that might grow once I remember some startup items from long ago...

Thanks for the hub recommendation. If I have one around that doesn't work well, I'll look into that one.

IIO · « **Reply #1384 on:** January 11, 2023, 10:02:56 AM »

the current state of the discussion is that you should try to select another speed than "normal" in usb overdrive to see if third party mouse issues go away.

jackoverfull · « **Reply #1385 on:** January 11, 2023, 10:44:50 AM »

About virtual memory, keep in mind that you can’t give more than around 1GB to a single program, so if you already have that much using virtual memory seems overkill anyway.

gregbuchner · « **Reply #1386 on:** January 12, 2023, 03:20:36 PM »

So, updates...

Realized my ex-roommate had left a PowerMac G3 downstairs. (He'll probably pick it up one day...) Brought it up, plugged it into display, keyboard, mouse, network and power and it powered up. To a folder with a flashing question mark and some questionable sounds from a hard drive. Didn't have time to deal with it then, but do today.

Removed HD from my G4 MDD. Figured the 80 GB one had to be the one I had for Mac OS 9 on that machine, took it out, plugged it into the G3, powered it on and walked away for a bit as I had other things to do. Came back and it was on my OS 9 screen with the stuff I remember. Hook up FW400 drive, start copying games folder over to it. Look around for other data, nothing really important.

Check networking. And the 10/100 networking on the G3 didn't work either. Has to be something with the switch I'm using that is close by as Gigabit has been working.

I'll be set to start playing some old OS 9 compatible games when I can get off work early tomorrow. And play around with any needed settings that might need to be changed, like in USB Overdrive.

Thanks everyone.

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Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts) (Read 404457 times)

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