Author Topic: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!  (Read 23030 times)

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« on: March 24, 2015, 08:55:31 AM »
Hi there Mac-people  8)

I couldn't find this problem being discussed already, so here goes:
I recently added a Sonnet Tempo card to my G4 Digital Audio (Dual 566 MHz) and connected a new 120GB Samsung Evo 850 SSD to it. The plan is to make this my new system drive. Now, when I start OS 9 and Drive Utility (the programs have German names here, but I hope you get it), I can select the SSD, choose partitions and click "Initialize". Under OS X 10.3.9, the Drive Utility program recognizes the model and size of the SSD and I can select it, choose partitions and click "Initialize" as well. BUT, once clicked, nothing happens - the spinning rainbow circle of doom appears as well as a progress bar filled with diagonal blue and white lines (but no actual progress bar), and it just stays like that. Same with OS 9, the circle being black and white instead of rainbow, of course  ;)
I tried it first with OS X, waited for over an hour, then reboot, tried with OS 9, waited just as long, then again reboot to OS X again and left it running over night (at least 8 hours). But when I checked again this morning, nothing had changed. Still rainbow and blue/white/diagonal.

Now, I have to mention, at the third try it kind of recognized 2 different partitions, but they were greyed out and couldn't be selected from the list on the right side of the drive utility window. And, they didn't show up in the finder/desktop. Also, in the system profiler, the Sonnet card is recognized (but named Seritek something), the SCSI tab is empty, and the ATA tab shows nothing but a search that also doesn't end  :o

It seems, the Mac ran into an error almost at the beginning of the initializing process and just froze there  :'(

What's wrong? Any ideas? How to fix this?


I'm not a computer pro, so I'm sorry if I made some stupid mistake along the way, but I think I did everything as described to me before by you guys...


Thanks alot  :)

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2015, 09:25:20 AM »
which sonnet tempo card is it ?

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2015, 09:33:12 AM »
Oops, sorry. It's the Sonnet TSATA Tempo Serial ATA - the first one mentioned in this thread: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=306.0

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2015, 09:34:22 AM »
u have to use a tiger 10.4.11 cd or newer to repartition this as it is pre-partitioned in GUID partition map format
this was something new, and the old systems are unaware of what this is..

solution: get a leopard or tiger install dvd.. boot up with the dvd and use disk utility to reformat the drive

or

insert the drive into a newer intel computer (pc or mac) and repartition it to either MBR or APM partition type..

then you can put it back in the g4 and the g4 will be able to repartition it to APM which is what u need it to be for a ppc computer.

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2015, 09:40:40 AM »
technically you should be able to repartition it under any osx version because you destroy the old layout and replace it with whatever you choose anyway. but there is only 1 card compatible with os9 and im not sure about boot ability.

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2015, 10:04:15 AM »
Wow, this was fast - way cool  -afro-

So there's 3 options, I do have an aluminium MacBook running 10.8.5, but I'm not too happy with opening it up, since right now I do all my work on it. Or, I could buy myself a Tiger/Leopard DVD, which are pretty pricey - around 50 bucks  :( . Maybe I know someone who has one, I'll ask around. Or I could ask a civilian (aka PC person) to do this for me...

I'll keep you posted, since this might happen to others as well...


Thanks so far  :D



p.s. there's a "Tiger Upgrade DVD" on eBay right now, saying it only works if Panther is installed already (which it is), would that work?

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2015, 10:09:43 AM »
upgrade means you need panther on the machine to be able to upgrade. you could download a hackintosh image and do it at home with your own machine.
when it asks you to initialize hit ignore and open disk utils !!!
did you partition the disk in osx first and change to apple partition ? open disk utils and repartition the disk and dont forget to choose os9 drivers.

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2015, 10:27:09 AM »
Well, Panther is installed on the G4 - and OS 9 as well - so this Upgrade DVD should work, right? It's at one Euro right now, but there's still 5 days left  ::)
I didn't partition anything so far, because it didn't work. Right at the beginning of the process it froze. So whatever it did, it wasn't much...

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2298
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2015, 10:27:28 AM »
Under OS X 10.3.9

not that this would be common knowledge or something, but you should try OS 10.4.x (or at least its disc utility version), because that is normally needed to format drives on that controller.

i dont think this is the case with the evo, but back in the days i have seen harddisks which could not be initialized on a mac (OS 8 ), because they were preformatted for DOS and locked.

we had to put them in a PC and wipe the partitioning there to make it work for HFS.

so theoretically it could also be something like that. because it is most unlikely that the combination of a SATA card and a SATA SSD will not work.

however,many of us here are running HDs with the sonnet card, and using new SSDs on the IDE controller(s) is also proven and works fine.

Quote
Also, in the system profiler, the Sonnet card is recognized (but named Seritek something)

that is correct - it is a seritek.

Quote
, the SCSI tab is empty, and the ATA tab shows nothing but a search that also doesn't end  :o

a SATA-connected drive should show up as "IDE" or "ATA" in OSX, and as "SCSI" in OS9; at least thats what my HDs do.

for my part i am finished here, try 10.4 and report back if the problem doesnt go away.

but mabye others have to say more than me.

p.s. oh yes and booting might not be fully supported with that card.

[/quote]
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
  • keep it simple
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2015, 10:37:45 AM »
I have different SATA controllers and two Samsung EVO SSDs working without any problems,  you should try to format the SSD with Drive Setup 1.9.2 under Mac Os 9, in my opinion.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2015, 10:50:11 AM »
Hmmm, okay... Where do I get Drive Setup 1.9.2? I couldn't find it here. I don't know which version I have and my G4 is about a 40 minute drive away. But with my version it didn't work.
Is Drive Setup 1.9.2 part of this here: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2109.0
I have downloaded and burned it already, since I wanted to put that on the SSD.

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2015, 10:57:46 AM »
u wont be able to do it with drive setup for os9..
u have to use osx disk utility with tiger or leopard
u can use drive setup once the partition map is changed to apm or mbr

u could also take the drive to any pc repair technician place and have them do it for you.. to simply repartition the drive to apm or mbr is a very simple 2min fix

i beleive u could find a tiger 10.4.11 cd to do this yourself..
(comes in a set of 4 cds. u only need the first cd)

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2015, 11:06:37 AM »
Yeah, those CDs are ridiculously expensive - at least over here  >:(
There are cheaper ones, but those are for specific Macs. I do have the Leopard Disks that came with my MacBook (late 2008) - but I think the G4 won't take those...
Our keyboarder is some professional computer wizard guy, he's willing to help. Hopefully it won't take until 2018  :o

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2015, 11:12:54 AM »
the file is here on the macintoshgarden

http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-osx-mac-os-10-ppc

http://macintoshgarden.org/sites/macintoshgarden.org/files/apps/Tiger_CD1.toast_.zip

burn the cd + reboot holding c

and say thanks to knez;)

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2015, 11:56:41 AM »
Thank you knez!!  -afro-

Downloading now. Thanks to all so far, I love this place  :D
I'll get back to you as soon as I have time to check it out...

Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
  • keep it simple
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2015, 12:19:31 PM »
u wont be able to do it with drive setup for os9 ...

Of course you can. I have done this hundreds of times. And in fact it is the most reliable way of doing it, if the disc is to be used with Mac Os 9 of course, and you should keep away the disk from Mac Os X if you wish to live troubles free, as DieHard is tired to tell ...
The only important point is the Drive Setup version, it must be the 1.9.2 version, because the next version 2.0 was intentionally limited by Apple to avoid to be used with most Hard drive ( and SSD ) brands. ( well, there is hack to avoid this limitation in the 2.0 version, if my memory serves... )
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2015, 01:03:50 PM »
Ok, there can never be enough options. But again, where do I get Drive Setup 1.9.2 ? I couldn't find it anywhere...

Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
  • keep it simple
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2015, 01:12:20 PM »
Here you have (attached)  ;)
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2015, 01:19:28 PM »
mactron...
his drive was shipped with GUID partition map..
i dont think drive setup will work untill after this partition map has been overwritten with an APM or MBR partiton map type.

however checking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table it does say that GUID/GPT dates back to the late 1990s so perhaps you are correct. but as far as i know panther is unable to recognize and overwrite this, and therefore this is also true with all previous versions of mac os.

Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
  • keep it simple
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2015, 02:23:48 PM »
mactron...
his drive was shipped with GUID partition map..
i dont think drive setup will work untill after this partition map has been overwritten with an APM or MBR partiton map type.

however checking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table it does say that GUID/GPT dates back to the late 1990s so perhaps you are correct. but as far as i know panther is unable to recognize and overwrite this, and therefore this is also true with all previous versions of mac os.

Drive Setup 1.9.2 will erase and build APM, no matter what kind of partition scheme was the drive previously formatted with.

... if Drive Setup 1.9.2 (nor Os X Disk Utilities) can format the drive, I guess that we have a hardware problem: a bad connection cable, a bad SSD or a bad PCI card.
In some occasion I had a similar weird problem, and the culprit was a cheap and bad SATA cable, and in other occasion every thing work OK after reinstalling all the hardware.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2015, 07:42:22 PM »
i find it hard to believe that drive setup would be able to do this when panther 10.3.9's disk utility was unable to.. considering 10.3.9 was released as late as april 2005... but if u have done it then i guess you know!!

so are we to also take from this that any drive setup prior to 1.92 will fail at this while 1.92+ will succeed?

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2015, 07:52:48 AM »
Thanks MacTron for the Drive Setup thingy  :)
The only thing I know for sure is that with 10.3.9 it doesn't work. Also, it doesn't work with my OS 9 Drive Setup, but I don't know which version it is. I'm gonna check MacTron's suggestion first, as this is the easiest way for me. If it doesn't work out, I'll try the way of the Tiger  8)
Anyway, I'll let you guys know - probably on the weekend.

Hopefully we'll find a good solution for this. The Samsung Evo is a quite popular SSD at a good price, so others might consider this too. I wanted to go for an OWC Legacy first, but with shipping and all I would have payed twice the price of the Evo.

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2015, 09:47:49 AM »
interested to know how this works out;)
i have a feeling it wont work  ::) but mactron might be right hehe :o

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2015, 08:57:02 AM »
Alright, here we go:

I went to my studio yesterday, armed with an USB-Stick containing MacTron's Drive Setup 1.9.2 and a CD with OSX Tiger Disk 1 as linked by chrisNova777. I checked out both solutions and the winner is........NEITHER!! tadaa  :'(

By the way, my Drive Setup version was 2.0.7 (or 2.0.2, can't remember). However, I used version 1.9.2, the drive was recognized as a <not initialized> SCSI drive, so I clicked "Initialize", decided on 3 Partitions with 37GB each and clicked "Initialize" again. What I got was a "writing driver on the disk..." and a black/white circle. And it just stayed that way - exactly as mentioned above. The only way to get out of it was the tiny reset-button on the front of the G4.

Then I started with the Tiger CD, went to the Utilities tab, selected Disk Utility. It recognized the drive with manufacturer and model. I tried "Partition" first, then did a reset, same deal, tried "Erase" this time - and: nothing. I've attached a screenpic of this last try, but I don't think it is of any help.

Anyway, tomorrow I'll give the SSD to our keyboarder, he's a professional PC-and-network-programmer, we'll see how it goes. So far, this sucks big time!


Still, thanks for all your help and ideas  :)
If nothing works out, there's still the option of trying it with my MacBook...


the quest continues....


supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2015, 09:44:03 AM »
unless u saw this screen.. and changed the partition map type
 u didnt do it right

(you need to change to apple partition map)

if that option doesnt show with tiger.. you may need a leopard dvd

it should be under partitions > options

Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
  • keep it simple
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2015, 10:24:47 AM »
Maybe there is something in this new Samsung’s new 850 EVO SSD model that make it incompatible with our old systems:

"... Samsung’s new 850 EVO SSD product line is powered by the company’s new MGX controller, The defining element of the 850 EVO is its three-dimensional flash that host three bits per cell.
The 850 EVO's 256-bit AES encryption is compliant with the TCG Opal 2.0 and IEEE 1667 standards, meeting the requirements for Microsoft's eDrive system..."
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2015, 10:52:57 AM »
I did not buy an Evo 840 on purpose, because I've read a bunch of customer reviews that said it had a problem accessing older data due to a firmware bug that Samsung couldn't solve. So I went for the 850 instead, because it's supposed to be the same thing, but without the bug. Depends on the source of information I guess  :o

@chris: I don't think I missed the "Options", I'm not 100% sure, though. The only screen that showed up was the basic Disk Utility window. If there even was an "Options" button, it might have been greyed out. Otherwise I'm quite certain I would have clicked it. Damn! Maybe I should take the G4 home until everything runs smoothly. It's a pain in the behindypart that I have to drive 44 kilometers (however much this is in your weird unit) for every teensy bit of checking  >:(

So yeah, maybe I made a mistake - I don't think so, but who knows.
I'll download the Leopard disk and try again tomorrow...



Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
  • keep it simple
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2015, 12:09:46 PM »
I did not buy an Evo 840 on purpose, because I've read a bunch of customer reviews that said it had a problem accessing older data due to a firmware bug that Samsung couldn't solve.
I had one unit with this issue, but nowadays it is solved with a firmware update.
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2015, 10:35:14 PM »
the ability to do this partition type change of GUID would have been added in the tiger disk version that also supports intel installation.. i think it would have to be the 10.4.6 install dvd u may have downloaded the original 10.4.0 install cd (1/4) and that may be the reason why it was greyed out or non-existant because this option was not yet implemented.  (im guessing.. im unsure of this)

the option for GUID is definately 100% on the leopard dvd..

Quote
To check the external drive's partition scheme, open Disk Utility, select the drive in the list, choose File > Get Info, and look for the "Partition Type." If you can't see the "Partition Type," you may have selected the volume instead of the disk. (Drives are flush left, with their volumes indented to the right below them.)
You can change the partition scheme for the disk drive by repartitioning it. It's OK to create only one partition.

heres some instructions..
i would start by rebooting into the tiger install dvd and following the instructions here to view the partition type. using the "Get info" command detailed above. once u confirm that the drive is in GUID rather then APM then u will have confirmed the source of the problem, or ruled out the partition type as a cause altogether.

but, if the tiger 10.4.0 (original version of tiger) is 100% unaware of GUID partitions then it may not even be able to recognize the partition type.

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2015, 10:43:38 PM »
i just noticed there is also the option to download the 10.4.6 dvd from the same page i linked above.. (aswell as leopard, but i dont advise u download the leopard dvd because a) its huge.. b) u need to have a 8gb dual layer DVD to burn it.. and c) your dvd drive may or may not be able to read DL dvd)

this chart from wikipedia on GPT guid partiton types details that its supported since  10.4.0 but also "some features since 10.4.6"


Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2015, 06:25:48 AM »
Ah, thanks for this additional info  :)
The plan is to meet tonight with my PC-wizard-guy. I'm bringing my MacBook and the Tiger DVD, he's bringing a PC-laptop and a USB to SATA adapter (at least that's what I understood) and then - with all the options right there - we're gonna get this mofo  8)





....hopefully  :o

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2015, 08:11:19 AM »
Woohoo, it finally worked  -afro-

My buddy needed to prepone our date, so there was no time for me to download 10.4.6. First thing I tried was 10.4.0 again, but as you can see in the first attached pic, there was no options button and therefore no way to change the partition type.
Then we connected the SSD via an USB - SATA adapter thingy to his windows laptop. He formatted the SSD with a MBR map, then I booted with OS9, but Drive Setup didn't work*. I did a reset, tried 10.4 - but nothing either (same deal as in my first post). Probably because Drive Setup kind of messed it up and 10.4 then had nothing to work with. So we did the exact same thing again and tried 10.4 instead, but again no luck. The SSD showed up on the desktop (first time ever), but it couldn't be initialized because Disk Utility could not unmount the drive :o My friend tried to unmount it with Terminal and also typed a few other weird letter combinations, but he was as clueless as I  ???

Next try was to connect the SSD to my MacBook (again USB - SATA thingy) running 10.8.5 - I then used Disk Utility to format the SSD with an APM, no problem. Then by accident booted the G4 with the installed 10.3.9 (instead of the Tiger CD) opened Disk Utility and initialized the SSD with OS9 drivers and 3 partitions of 37GB each. This finally worked, although OS9 showed up some errors with First Aid on those partitions (something like B-Tree header yadayadayada). I repaired them and voilá - everything seems to be perfectly fine now.

I'm off to put the OS9 on it and install MOTU drivers, Cubase and such in a couple of hours...  :D

I've attached a pic with the SSD info after the formatting with 10.8.5.


So here's a quick rundown of what worked in the end:
1. used a USB-to-SATA-adapter to connect the SSD to a MacBook running 10.8.5
2. Initialize the SSD with Disk Utility
3. Re-Initialize the SSD with Disk Utility of 10.3.9 to write the OS9 drivers and partition it the way I wanted
4. Use First Aid to repair those partitions (this last step seems a bit weird to me, but hey......)


I'm really thankful to you guys for helping me out  :D . Hopefully this thread can help others as well. I'll order myself a USB-SATA adapter thingy now - those are just a few bucks and true works of art  8)




*actually, Drive Setup showed a different thing. Instead of <not initialized> as before, it showed <not activated>. But it still froze after I clicked "initialize"...

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2015, 11:33:33 AM »
Alright, this is a bit freaky and weird...

After my last post, it all crashed down on me again  :'(
One of the three partitions I made on the SSD showed an error that could not be repaired with First Aid, so I tried partitioning the SSD again and had the same problems as in my posts above. On my way home then I brought the G4 along and bought a USB-SATA-adapter-thingy (Icy Box; 9,- bucks) and at home connected it to my MacBook and first erased, then partitioned the SSD anew. But as soon as I connected the SSD to the G4, there was no way of doing anything to it, because it could not be unmounted.
I'm trying again right at this very moment, erasing and partitioning the SSD with the MacBook, but this time connecting it to the G4 with the USB-adapter and that works. The funny thing is, Disk Utility (1st CD of 10.4) even shows up the "Options" button and I can select a partition type. It doesn't do that when the SSD is connected internally. Compare the picture of my last post and these two here.

This is weird, but it also means that the connection itself has to be the problem - meaning the Sonnet Tempo card, right? Once the SSD is connected to it, it can't be unmounted  :o and therefore not partitioned in either Drive Setup or Disk Utility. Does this make sense at all? And - more importantly - is this gonna be a problem? Is unmounting necessary for anything else than partitioning a drive?

I'm now gonna boot up with OS9 and see what happens...

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2015, 11:47:13 AM »
Ich weiss das klingt ein wenig lustig aber hast du je nach einer pata/ide SSD gesucht ? das koennte besser funktionieren ist aber etwas limitiert fuer die alte maschine. Der bus ist der flaschenhals.

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2015, 11:53:03 AM »
Ah, ein Landsmann  :D
Nun hab ich die Sonnet Karte aber schon und die SSD auch. Ich hab gerade die SSD wieder eingebaut und OS9 hochgefahren. Es werden zumindest mal alle Partitionen angezeigt. Mal kucken, was Erste Hilfe sagt...
...HA! Alle 3 Partitionen sind OK.
Dann versuche ich jetzt einfach mal, OS9 auf die SSD zu installieren...

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2015, 11:54:14 AM »
viel glueck

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2015, 11:59:38 AM »
Pech gehabt  :(
Konnte nicht installieren und das Volume ist nun beschädigt. Also das Ganze nochmal von vorn...

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2015, 12:03:54 PM »
Ich denke das spiel kannste ewig so machen und es wird nicht enden. Check mal die firmware von deiner sonnet und lies mal im handbuch was die limits sind weil die sind von os zu os anders. wie gesagt such dir ne ide version. nebenbei da ist nur eine sonnet karte mit os9 kompatibel von der ich weiss.

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2015, 12:07:55 PM »
Den einen Versuch mach' ich noch und dann knobel ich mir was anderes aus...
Zur Not setz ich die SSD in's MacBook und kauf mir ne kompatible. Dumm nur, daß ich die OWCs bei uns nicht finde und mit Versand und MwSt aus Amiland schicken lassen, ist mir zu teuer...

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2015, 12:11:03 PM »
Lass den wert auf dem papier runter setzen dann kannste beim zoll vorbei kommen :D (ich lebe in den usa)

Versuch mal was anderes. anstatt installieren hol dir das dmg file von os9 und benutze (osx) disk utils um das auf die platte zu schreiben.

geh mal in den chat

Offline IIO

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2298
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2015, 12:23:22 PM »
in this case, when the problem comes back after everx volume failure, formatting the thing elsewhere is no option of course.

was den flaschenhals angeht: er benutzt eine PCI to SATA-150 karte, und die ist nicht unwesentlich langsamer als der hauptspeicher eines solchen rechners es auch ist. (oder mit anderen worten: SATA-300, das schnellste was es für OS9 gibt, macht ausschliesslich auf rechner mit DDR 3 RAM sinn.)

im übrigen seid ihr herzlich eingeladen, das german language forum zu benutzen. :)

"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com

Offline MacTron

  • Global Moderator
  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2087
  • keep it simple
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2015, 12:28:14 PM »
The non English post, should be accompanied of an english translation. Otherwise it should be placed in to the "Basic World Help for NON English speakers" sections, with our new German native moderator.  ;D

IIO: do you accept to be de moderator of the German section?

if there is nobody else, then yes. but lets see first if there are any posts. :)
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2015, 12:48:10 PM »
Of course. I will report any findings in English. This just got carried away, because it was happening quite fast...
Off to a meeting now.
We discovered, that a downgrade of the Sonnet Tempo TSATA card might be necessary and that I could try to install another OS9 image than the one I tried. Babysteps.
I'll keep you posted...

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2015, 05:48:40 AM »
Ok, there's a few things I'm gonna try before declaring this whole thing a failure and move on.
First, in my stupidity I never tried plugging the SSD into the second port of the Sonnet card. I don't think this will make a difference (and it shouldn't), but it can't hurt to try. Then, I'm gonna try to downgrade the firmware of the Sonnet TSATA. I've been to the Sonnet website yesterday and there's a FAQ about it - see the attached screenshot.
Since the SSD works fine when connected via USB, I'll try to install OS9 while it's connected that way (no idea if that has even a chance of succeeding) and afterwards connect the SSD to the Sonnet again.
And lastly I'll try two different OS9 downloads: *** Mac OS 9.2.2 Universal Install - ISO CD Image *** - this I have tried yesterday, but it failed after just a few seconds. I'll download and try again, maybe the download was faulty. And then this one here:  Mac OS 9.2.2 General Image - OS X DMG Format.

Onwards...



p.s. I'm gonna wait with the firmware downgrade of the Sonnet. I just read the instructions that come with the firmware and they say version 5.13 is compatible with 10.4 and 10.5 - there's no mention of OS9 at all. So this moves to the end of the list of things to try...
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 06:04:33 AM by twokayprod »

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2015, 06:20:29 AM »
do u have your cpu overclocked? how is it that u have dual 566?
if your cpu is overclocked.. it could be the reason for your problems..
i had problems with a similar overclock, and when i set the cpu back to normal all was ok.

and the 5.13 firmware is fine.. its what is on my card and my card works fine.
(and the clones that i have aswell)

according to my new world timeline (http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php?topic=389.0)
your mac is originally from batch introduced on January 9, 2001
the macs released at the same time shipped with mac os 9.1.. the dual processor was a x server version..   i guess yours was one of the first macs ever to ship with X server installed ... http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_server_g4/specs/macserver_g4_533_dp.html

but it says dual 533. not 566

have u tried connecting a normal sata drive? like an 80gb drive? to confirm the card is functioning properly?

have u tested the sata card inside another mac or pc? it should function in any computer that has a pci slot.

does the ssd/card combo work fine in TIGER osx?

i dont read german so i have no idea what the symptoms were when u tried booting os9 from this SSD.. it would be of help if u could explain exactly what u are experiencing..

i have many of these sata cards and have had no problem.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 06:32:10 AM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2015, 06:35:19 AM »
ok i see now your other post above that i missed..

i think u should try the downgrade of firmware of the sonnet card
do not be afraid of this.. just do it..

if that doesnt work it may be something about this particular ssd model that has made itself incompatible with the sonnet card.. in which case. u should be able to simply return it to the store u bought it from. and purchase a different model of SSD and all will be fine.

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2015, 06:57:45 AM »
do u have any other pci cards installed in this system?

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2015, 07:30:05 AM »
My G4 isn't overclocked, my fault, I meant to say 533MHz, sorry. Specs attached.

Alright, I'll try the firmware downgrade then. First I have to upgrade to 10.4 as there's still Panther installed - downloading now...
I have no normal SATA drive to check out the card. I do have a G4 Quicksilver that I bought for 40 bucks on eBay because I wanted the keyboard  ;D but it's not in working order right now, after the Mac-sound it doesn't boot up but turns itself off again - I'm guessing a broken Harddrive but I didn't have time to check anything yet. So no, at this time no other machine with a PCI slot.
So far, I didn't try booting OS9 from the SSD because I couldn't install it on the SSD. The SSD shows up on the desktop with all three partitions, in First Aid everything checks out fine, no errors or anything, BUT only when it's connected via USB. I just wrote almost 6GB of random data onto it and then erased this data again, so the SSD works fine. But I couldn't install OS9 onto it, not even with the USB connection.

I'm trying to download another OS9 install, but A-drive doesn't let me download right now, it always fails after about 75% of the download is complete...


So the next steps are to replace Panther with 10.4.11, then downgrade the Sonnet firmware and try again...


I'm a bit confused about the PCI cards. I only have an ATI Radeon 9000 and a USB card that makes USB 2.0 possible, but in the System Profiler there's two USB-cards and another card listed that I don't even know about - and all in the same Slot - WTF??  :o    pic attached...

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2015, 07:34:01 AM »
Ah, I remember, there was a WLAN-card that I took out when I cleaned the G4, because it's no longer needed. But that wouldn't explain the two USB-cards. Is there a way to reset this list somehow?

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2015, 08:15:15 AM »
i would suggest you remove all the pci cards that u have installed temporarily to test with the sata card by itself only once u have downgraded the firmware

but this may not be neccessary as i think the firmware downgrade will fix your problem. none of my cards have this firmware (dated november 2007 by the looks of it on your pic?)
and they all work 100%, perhaps this firmware edition was specialized for mac os x leopard on G5 / intel machines.. or windows vista on pc.. (remember this card is mac/pc compatible)

it looks like they updated firmware to fix some later compatibility or perhaps trying to maximize performance .. and they seem to have broken some type of compatibility with the older 2000-2003 systems.. this is normal.. hence the reccommendation to downgrade the firmware to ensure proper compatibility with the legacy systems.. the firmware i have is definately not from 2007.. i think it dates to 2002 or 2003.

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2015, 08:33:24 AM »
I agree, I was searching the web a little and this looks like the source of the problem (the firmware of the Sonnet).
I opened up the G4 and there's 3 cards total, wait.....let me take a pic....

- There's the ATI Radeon Mac9000 in the green slot - I guess it's an AGP?
- Then I left one slot free for better air circulation around the ATI (or is this wrong?)
- Next is the USB 2.0 card
- and closest to the camera is the Sonnet TSATA

that's it. But why does the System Profiler get this wrong? And how can I correct this? Maybe there's a problem as well. If the PCI-slots/cards are not recognized correctly, then this could create troubles, or not?

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2015, 08:40:27 AM »
take that usb car out for a test and have the sonnet flashed (older firmware) im not aware of any working usb2 solution under os9 anyway

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2015, 08:42:43 AM »
take that usb car out for a test and have the sonnet flashed (older firmware) im not aware of any working usb2 solution under os9 anyway

exactly u dont want this card installed while running mac os 9.
u want to use firewire for mac os 9.
firewire kicks usb's ass anyway (even 2.0) because it is not cpu-dependant.. imho this is the real reason why steve jobs didnt allow mac os to use USB... he didnt want them making the processors look slow.

but usually its ok to leave this usb card in.. i have one inside my MDD 1.25 (2003) - mainly because one of the usb ports on the back of this machine is damaged.. the ports will work fine but are useless for anything but mouse/keyboard + midi/audio interfaces that use usb1.1... such as the mbox etc

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2015, 08:44:50 AM »
the card will provide usb 1.1 but whats the point having another tower heater if you can use the onboard plugs

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2015, 08:47:23 AM »
Will do. The card is still in there, because there's both OS9 and OSX installed. I'll take it out now and once Toast finished burning Tiger I'll replace Panther with it and flash the old firmware on the Sonnet...

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2015, 08:50:29 AM »
This G4 used to be my everyday Mac AND my studio machine. So I needed USB 2.0 and OSX. But now it's gonna be for studio work only, so in the end I want only OS9 and no ballast whatsoever. Taking the USB card out now...

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #56 on: April 03, 2015, 08:57:17 AM »
well if you need the card leave it in the machine but for the test run to isolate your problem take out what you dont need.

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #57 on: April 03, 2015, 12:12:46 PM »
Well, it didn't work  :'(
I took the USB card out, so the Sonnet was the only card left. I installed 10.4.11 with all updates to the internal harddrive. Then I rebooted and downgraded the Sonnet firmware to 5.13. Everything good so far.
Now I put the SSD back in the G4, connected it to the Sonnet and the three partitions show up on the desktop. So I used Disk Utility and checked the SSD with First Aid - and lots of red, errors, errors, errors  :(
Right now, I'm trying to erase the SSD - and nothing. Rainbow disk of doom...

Ah, now it says: Erasing did not work, because of the following error: "Resource busy"

I'm pretty sure now the Samsung Evo 850 SSD is just not compatible with the Sonnet TSATA, I don't know what else to try. When connected via USB I can use the SSD (I can't write a system on it, but other than that it works just like a huge USB stick), but as soon as I plug it into the Sonnet, I get errors. This sucks   >:(

Offline devils_advisor

  • Platinum Member (500+ Posts)
  • *****
  • Posts: 765
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #58 on: April 03, 2015, 12:21:05 PM »
use the restore function and the general image

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2015, 07:40:19 PM »
wow thats really screwed up..

u sure your sata cable is ok??

it must be something to do with this specific ssd
just return it + get a diffferent brand/model



Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2015, 10:03:27 AM »
Yeah, the cable is one last thing I can try. I'll try the General Image as well, but I seriously doubt it'll work. I'm away for the weekend, will try and let you know on monday.
I found a source for OWC SSDs over here, so I guess I'll get one of those...

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2015, 10:04:21 AM »
Maybe there is something in this new Samsung’s new 850 EVO SSD model that make it incompatible with our old systems:

"... Samsung’s new 850 EVO SSD product line is powered by the company’s new MGX controller, The defining element of the 850 EVO is its three-dimensional flash that host three bits per cell.
The 850 EVO's 256-bit AES encryption is compliant with the TCG Opal 2.0 and IEEE 1667 standards, meeting the requirements for Microsoft's eDrive system..."

i think this drives internal controller must be incompatible with SATA150 spec

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/ssd850evo/specifications.html
http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/whitepaper/whitepaper02.html

why dont u just get a 840 by samsung? mactron has one i think and he knows it works
but.. he has a different sata card then you.. which uses a different chip controller (either thris one http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1ve2plus2/ or this one http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-1v4/)

also please keep in mind there is also the possibility that your SATA card is defective.. doubtfull but it is a logical possibility untill u test it to prove otherwise!

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2015, 06:43:11 AM »
I couldn't find any differences in the specs of the 850 and 840 - maybe I didn't look closely enough. But the 850 is downwards compatible with SATA II and SATA, so this shouldn't be a problem...
Anyway, the 840 is more expensive than the 850 and just 8 bucks away from the OWC Mercury Electra 3G, so I'll get the latter. I already found a different use for the Samsung.
At least we found a combination of SSD and SATA card that doesn't work, so others don't fall into the same trap. I have no way to check the Sonnet card in another machine and it will be a few days before I can check a different cable - this easter weekend threw my whole timetable overboard. But I don't think it's the card or the cable. Once I get the OWC we'll know for sure.

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #63 on: May 11, 2015, 08:09:13 AM »
 -afro-
Alright!! It took a while, but I finally got the OWC Mercury 3G 120GB SSD. Just put it in the machine, started it up and used Drive Setup to partition the thing. Then I simply copied all the files/folders from my recently done clean installation of the OS9 I downloaded from right here aaaaaaand.......tadaa! Works like a charm  :D

So there really was a communication problem between the Samsung Evo 850 and the Sonnet TSATA. With the OWC, everything was done in about 5 minutes. And I got it for 80 bucks from Amazon.de, even cheaper than the Samsung 840 would have been.

Good times  :)
Thanx again for your help, guys!




p.s. By the way, how cool is it that with OS9 one can just copy the system stuff and get another startup drive? I know, this is old news, but it still ROCKS!! I put a new HDD in the G4 recently and installed the latest OS9, so my old HDD is just for backup now. Then I installed Cubase and a bunch of plugins, as well as the MOTU drivers needed for my interfaces. And now, all I had to do was to drag all that over to the SSD. AWESOME!! AAAAAAAWESOME!!  8) 8) 8)

supernova777

  • Guest
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #64 on: May 11, 2015, 12:49:41 PM »
it can be a bitch to figure out what the cause of problems are..
process of elimination.. but when thats all sorted +D one.. and the computer works well.. mac os 9 is pretty rock solid ;D  8)

just yesterday i went thru about 30 boot ups to figure out that a few hard drives were bad and once they are out of the config, everythings working like a champ... what really screws u up is when u think something is compatible and it is in fact, not. but u try like hell to make it work before finally giving up.. i had the same problem with this stupid radeon 7000 pci card yesterday..
of course using the same card in os 9.0+ & 10.x works fine,everytime, on the same hardware. 

anyways.. moving forward.. on to bigger + better things.. :D
« Last Edit: May 11, 2015, 02:15:42 PM by chrisNova777 »

Offline twokayprod

  • Enthusiast Member (25+ Posts)
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • new to the forums
Re: My G4 won't initialize the new SSD - please help!
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2015, 07:00:23 AM »
Hi guys,

I didn't want to open a new thread, because this seems to be related.
Since I'm using the SSD as system drive, most of the times when I startup the G4, I get the "Your computer wasn't turned off properly"-screen  :o
What's the deal with that? Any ideas? Is this a problem or should I just ignore it?

Thanx