Author Topic: Mac Os 9 booting on: xServe G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 35032 times)

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #75 on: June 21, 2016, 08:06:39 PM »
  Keep in mind that while the ATA100 version of the Promise chip, PDC20270, had a functional OS 9 equivalent ROM, the ATA133 PDC20271 never did.  This would make it far more likely that a stock Xserve "Tray-load" with the ATA100 can be made to work than the faster one in the Xserve "Slot-load".  Not that it's impossible, but Sonnet did go with a completely different vendor's chipset for their ATA133 RAID card for some reason.  At the very least you might be able to simply swap an ATA100 bridge board into a "Slot-load" machine if we can get that controller working in the first place.  Otherwise just go with a PCI card for now.

  On that note, a reminder to all that we're still seeking a Sonnet Tempo RAID ATA100 PCI card for testing on this project.  Also, if anyone scraps an Xserve "Slot-load" I'm interested in acquiring the front bezel plate and possibly some other bits.

Okay, time for some pictures... 'cause it happened!  Check out the epic unintended lens flares:

Xserve meets 9serve - they seem to have the same taste in websites!  (TenFourFox vs Classilla - PPC browsing at its finest.)  They also like similar keyboards.


Xserve "Tray-load" - but wait, swapped in a vastly better slot-load DVD drive.  Four-channel fan speed controller tamed the noisy beast!  Bluetooth keyboard on ancient Kensington USB BT dongle.


9serve "Tray-load" - also with a slot-load drive (no faceplate - 'borrowed' from Powerbook Ti).  Booting SSD from front firewire.  Lacie USB floppy and Macally 'floating-apple' mouse.


Bestest desktop picture ever!   "G4 WITH VELOCITY ENGINE"  Really awesome but makes no sense at all - just like most Apple marketing!


Xserve "About This Mac":


9serve "About This Computer":

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #76 on: June 22, 2016, 05:39:16 AM »
  Keep in mind that while the ATA100 version of the Promise chip, PDC20270, had a functional OS 9 equivalent ROM, the ATA133 PDC20271 never did.  This would make it far more likely that a stock Xserve "Tray-load" with the ATA100 can be made to work than the faster one in the Xserve "Slot-load".  Not that it's impossible, but Sonnet did go with a completely different vendor's chipset for their ATA133 RAID card for some reason.  At the very least you might be able to simply swap an ATA100 bridge board into a "Slot-load" machine if we can get that controller working in the first place.  Otherwise just go with a PCI card for now.

I was digging around on this, I couldn't find anything on the Sonnet ATA Raid 100 on their site, but I did find the ATA Raid 133 and it was supported as a bootable device in OS 9.  So their may be hope yet on both of those.
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Offline MacTron

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #77 on: June 22, 2016, 06:51:12 AM »
At the very least you might be able to simply swap an ATA100 bridge board into a "Slot-load" machine if we can get that controller working in the first place.
Interesting idea.
I was digging around on this, I couldn't find anything on the Sonnet ATA Raid 100 on their site, but I did find the ATA Raid 133 and it was supported as a bootable device in OS 9.  So their may be hope yet on both of those.
Even better idea :)

We have to face a several issues, find the firmware with Mac os 9 drivers compatible with this ATA133 bridge board  and know how to install them inside the board  (I guess we have to reflash an EPROM or something similar)
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Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #78 on: June 22, 2016, 07:23:40 AM »
At the very least you might be able to simply swap an ATA100 bridge board into a "Slot-load" machine if we can get that controller working in the first place.
Interesting idea.
I was digging around on this, I couldn't find anything on the Sonnet ATA Raid 100 on their site, but I did find the ATA Raid 133 and it was supported as a bootable device in OS 9.  So their may be hope yet on both of those.
Even better idea :)

We have to face a several issues, find the firmware with Mac os 9 drivers compatible with this ATA133 bridge board  and know how to install them inside the board  (I guess we have to reflash an EPROM or something similar)

Sonnet has a firmware update for the ATA 133 Raid.  I am considering trying to flash that one, hoping that it will fix the firmware properties.

The firmware properties seem to be the only issue so that it can be initialized properly.  Once booted I'm pretty sure drivers won't be an issue.
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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #79 on: June 22, 2016, 10:03:04 AM »
  As I mentioned, the Sonnet Tempo RAID ATA133 doesn't use a Promise chipset.  It's a completely different foundation.  Just to confuse the issue, the Sonnet Tempo ATA133 (non-RAID) did use a Promise chip but not the same as the one in either revision of the Xserve.  The boot code block within the firmware is probably the same between the RAID and non-RAID chips however.  This might mean 'grafting' that block of code into the another firmware file and possibly recalculating the checksum.  This isn't my area of expertise but I'm sure there is someone out there with experience editing video card ROMs who could help.

  You are most likely right that the firmware is probably the only issue, not drivers.  The only thing I'm unsure of is how this plays along with the fact there are actually two Promise controllers in the Xserve, one on top of and one on the bottom of the bridge board.  It may not matter at all or it might mean only one can be enabled at any time.  We will see.

  It shouldn't affect OS X support after the change, but I'd like to get a spare bridge board to experiment with so I don't permanently screw my current one.  If it somehow creates a situation where OS X doesn't like it any more then at least I would have the option of swapping bridge boards at any time.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #80 on: June 22, 2016, 04:35:27 PM »
Found some cards in the storage room...

I have a Promise Ultra100 PCI, PDC20267.

Probably PC only, can you flash it mac ?

Yours if you want it...

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #81 on: June 22, 2016, 09:07:20 PM »
  I imagine either the Mac flasher has to be tricked into accepting the PC card as a valid destination, or, if we can extract the Mac ROM from Sonnet's flasher, flashed on a PC using the Mac ROM.  Having another close Promise 'family member' probably wouldn't hurt.  The only thing I'm not sure of is if it's better to go to me or to nanopico.  I guess I'll ask him.

  Meanwhile, I found a firmware/ROM flash program for the Sonnet Tempo RAID ATA100 in an archive DVD disc I have.  Not sure why I ever saved this program two years ago, seeing as I never owned one of these cards, but it may very well be what we need to make the Xserve work.  (I must have been psychic!)  I'd like to post it in the downloads so nanopico can get his hands on it (and for anyone elses' benefit).  How might I go about uploading it?

  The parallel ATA conversion adapters for the optical drive bus arrived in the mail yesterday.  They have a generic sticker on them that says "SATA" but they most definitely are PATA-to-PATA.  I'm now booting the Xserve from the SSD in this carrier instead of the external firewire.  No issues and slightly faster of course.  The only thing I don't get any more is an activity LED, but I could use one of the menu bar drive light utilities I have on all my other OS 9-and-earlier machines.


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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #82 on: June 22, 2016, 09:45:04 PM »
I was just digging around in storage here and found the following Promise PC-ROM cards from the same generations as the Mac ones:

- Ultra100 ATA (PDC20267) - physically modified and flashed to work as FastTrack100 RAID
- FastTrak100 RAID (PDC20267)
- Ultra100 TX2 ATA (PDC20268)
- Ultra133 TX2 ATA (PDC20269)

  I thought I had a FastTrak133 RAID somewhere but I can't find it right now.  Anyway, it seems I'm good for Promise cards, but see if nanopico want the one you have.

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #83 on: June 23, 2016, 07:57:39 AM »
I was digging around looking at how to flash these cards from PC to Mac.

I'm not sure I fully understand the process correctly, but it seems to involve moving chips around between various cards and such, and I'm just not sure that's something I want to tackle.

On the plus side, (excuse the babbling, I'm just thinking out loud here) I have some add on cards for sata in other machines.  Even though they are not the same, they are setup in the same manner in open firmware (directly on the pci bus) and bootable to 9 only they report as SCSI devices (as is well known).
The big thing with these is that it reports the chip as the compatible flag and contains the OS 9 firmware driver on the card.

The initialization issue is related to interrupt initialization.  So a Promise raid controller for Mac (even if not the same one) would at least probably point out the things we are missing in firmware besides the driver side of it.
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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #84 on: June 23, 2016, 08:59:14 AM »
  Agreed, there should be some common code in the various OS 9 bootable ROMs/firmware images.  If it becomes necessary I have the equipment and skills to do chip exchanges, but there most likely are other ways to deal with this in software/firmware only.  Further, we definitely want to try to keep these changes within the skill level of the average user so we maximize the value of our effort.

  That said, I'm prepared to do soldering if it helps with proof of functionality.  I'll wait and see where we get with the flashing aspect first though.  It shouldn't be that big a deal to flash an existing Mac chip with another Mac ROM.

  I had a thought yesterday that maybe someone more familiar with Apple's development timeline could answer.  The MDD motherboard had all the landing points for firewire 400 & 800 ports and ICs.  The OS 9 bootable version simply omitted the FW800 parts.  The first Xserve has all the landing points for FW800 components but they were omitted.  Given what we know already about what all now works when booting 9 on the Xserve, is it possible that in early development Apple actually considered making OS 9 support official but then later rigged it to fail?  This seems quite plausible.

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #85 on: June 23, 2016, 09:56:13 AM »
  I had a thought yesterday that maybe someone more familiar with Apple's development timeline could answer.  The MDD motherboard had all the landing points for firewire 400 & 800 ports and ICs.  The OS 9 bootable version simply omitted the FW800 parts.  The first Xserve has all the landing points for FW800 components but they were omitted.  Given what we know already about what all now works when booting 9 on the Xserve, is it possible that in early development Apple actually considered making OS 9 support official but then later rigged it to fail?  This seems quite plausible.

Considering these machines came out during the OS X time frame I don't think they gave any thought to enabling FW800 to OS 9.
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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #86 on: June 23, 2016, 10:03:02 AM »
There's a thread from 2014 on this forum that was discussing this issue in regards to the PCI cards:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1926.0.html

  One thing I took note of in the dialog window that comes up when starting the Sonnet firmware flasher is they say their product was actually based on FirmTek's cards that were themselves Promise-based.  (In the case of the ATA100 RAID, from the "FirmTek UltraTek/100T2".)  So it was actually FirmTek that wrote the OS 9 compatible firmware for the Promise chips, I guess.  I have to look into it further but it appears FirmTek made Promise-based OS 9 bootable cards in 33, 66, 100 and 133MHz variants.  So it seems we might have another avenue afterall both for ROMs and flashing programs and also for the 133MHz.  I will have to try to confirm if all of these were Promise-based.  FirmTek says on their website that they only produced these cards on a OEM basis for other companies and don't provide any direct support or downloads for them.  So the big question is, was the FirmTek UltraTek/133 Promise-based and what brand were they sold under as a Mac product?

  In a weird twist there was a quote from an article in that thread saying FirmTek was partly founded by former Apple employees.  In the end we may just be finishing Apple's work, in a sense.  I like irony.

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2016, 10:16:45 AM »
  I had a thought yesterday that maybe someone more familiar with Apple's development timeline could answer.  The MDD motherboard had all the landing points for firewire 400 & 800 ports and ICs.  The OS 9 bootable version simply omitted the FW800 parts.  The first Xserve has all the landing points for FW800 components but they were omitted.  Given what we know already about what all now works when booting 9 on the Xserve, is it possible that in early development Apple actually considered making OS 9 support official but then later rigged it to fail?  This seems quite plausible.

Considering these machines came out during the OS X time frame I don't think they gave any thought to enabling FW800 to OS 9.

  That's not what I was suggesting - rather the opposite.  What I meant was the intentional omission of FW800 parts from the board, even though all the landing points and tracings were in place to allow for it, may have meant that the FW400-only version of the board was intentionally made that way if Apple were initially considering official OS 9 support for the Xserve, then subsequently the OS 9 support was dropped before the public release.  I really don't see any other reason why they would make all the spots for it in the production board and then leave it out.  In the later MDD they did exactly the same thing but did make OS 9 support official in one of the late motherboard revisions after substantial commercial customer outcry.  It just seems like too much of a coincidence not to consider a similar story with the Xserve.

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #88 on: June 23, 2016, 10:36:45 AM »
  I had a thought yesterday that maybe someone more familiar with Apple's development timeline could answer.  The MDD motherboard had all the landing points for firewire 400 & 800 ports and ICs.  The OS 9 bootable version simply omitted the FW800 parts.  The first Xserve has all the landing points for FW800 components but they were omitted.  Given what we know already about what all now works when booting 9 on the Xserve, is it possible that in early development Apple actually considered making OS 9 support official but then later rigged it to fail?  This seems quite plausible.

Considering these machines came out during the OS X time frame I don't think they gave any thought to enabling FW800 to OS 9.

  That's not what I was suggesting - rather the opposite.  What I meant was the intentional omission of FW800 parts from the board, even though all the landing points and tracings were in place to allow for it, may have meant that the FW400-only version of the board was intentionally made that way if Apple were initially considering official OS 9 support for the Xserve, then subsequently the OS 9 support was dropped before the public release.  I really don't see any other reason why they would make all the spots for it in the production board and then leave it out.  In the later MDD they did exactly the same thing but did make OS 9 support official in one of the late motherboard revisions after substantial commercial customer outcry.  It just seems like too much of a coincidence not to consider a similar story with the Xserve.

Makes much more sense now. Sorry I got it backwards.  I wonder if it was a mater of OS X didn't support FW800 yet when the machine was released but it was planed so they left the spots on the board to ease manufacturing when OS X supported it? 
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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2016, 01:36:55 PM »
  We may never know for sure, but it makes for a good story, right? ;)  But in a truly serious sense, there had to be early development that preceeded the across-the-board OS X-only directive.  If anyone can suggest a better reason for the lack of FW800 but spaces for it, I'd be curious to hear it.

Offline GaryN

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #90 on: June 23, 2016, 03:43:32 PM »
FWIW: I know absolute nothing first, second or even third-hand about what actually went on at Apple then, but having once been in charge of developing and manufacturing an electronic product, I do know the following:

Apple is unusual, almost unique in that the company produces both software and the hardware it runs on. In a situation like that, development proceeds along parallel lines in various divisions based on general "orders from above". SO…

1) Execs poll R&D for new latest and greatest
2) Consult Marketing as to best ideas
3) Decide what to do and issue impossible-to-meet target dates
4) Scramble like chickens to pull the thousand different pieces of the puzzle together and actually have a new product to deliver.

Now when this all gets wound up and moving along, a thousand or so factors come into play: design errors, parts availabilities, Chinese supplier political issues, competitors product announcements, sudden new info from corporate espionage, unexpected failures/issues during testing and on and on.

In the FW aspect, if I'm an engineering manager in charge of laying out the board and they tell me "Don't worry, FW800 won't happen until the next model", if I'm smart, I know that the only certainty in the biz is that nothing will go as planned - therefore, if I can, I allow for FW800 if at all possible without compromising my timeline. That way, if things change, when things change, instead of having to tell Execs "Sorry, there's no more room for that, you said it wasn't needed" and having to look for a new job shortly afterward, I can just be the hero who saw the future and said, "sure, no problem…we not only left room for that, but it's already in the layout, just in case…What? a bonus? Oh really, I was just doing my job after all, but thank you.".

Or maybe, the supplier who swore they could deliver the FW800 chip on time didn't - simple as that.

These are obviously only two of a hundred possible scenarios, but you get the idea, I'm sure.

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #91 on: June 23, 2016, 06:26:40 PM »
FWIW: I know absolute nothing first, second or even third-hand about what actually went on at Apple then, but having once been in charge of developing and manufacturing an electronic product, I do know the following:

Apple is unusual, almost unique in that the company produces both software and the hardware it runs on. In a situation like that, development proceeds along parallel lines in various divisions based on general "orders from above". SO…

1) Execs poll R&D for new latest and greatest
2) Consult Marketing as to best ideas
3) Decide what to do and issue impossible-to-meet target dates
4) Scramble like chickens to pull the thousand different pieces of the puzzle together and actually have a new product to deliver.

Now when this all gets wound up and moving along, a thousand or so factors come into play: design errors, parts availabilities, Chinese supplier political issues, competitors product announcements, sudden new info from corporate espionage, unexpected failures/issues during testing and on and on.

In the FW aspect, if I'm an engineering manager in charge of laying out the board and they tell me "Don't worry, FW800 won't happen until the next model", if I'm smart, I know that the only certainty in the biz is that nothing will go as planned - therefore, if I can, I allow for FW800 if at all possible without compromising my timeline. That way, if things change, when things change, instead of having to tell Execs "Sorry, there's no more room for that, you said it wasn't needed" and having to look for a new job shortly afterward, I can just be the hero who saw the future and said, "sure, no problem…we not only left room for that, but it's already in the layout, just in case…What? a bonus? Oh really, I was just doing my job after all, but thank you.".

Or maybe, the supplier who swore they could deliver the FW800 chip on time didn't - simple as that.

These are obviously only two of a hundred possible scenarios, but you get the idea, I'm sure.

Sounds like my normal day with my customers, and having to foresee what they want in their software before they even ask me to develop it.
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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #92 on: June 24, 2016, 10:00:00 PM »
  I have to make a correction to something I said earlier.  After extensive digging around and quadruple-fact-checking I've determined that some of the information I got about the Sonnet RAID cards was bad.  There never was a Sonnet Tempo RAID ATA/100, it was only that some people had confused the use of software RAID drives on the Sonnet Tempo ATA/100 with actual hardware RAID.  The firmware flasher I had was also mislabeled - it is for non-RAID ATA/100.

  The implication of this is Sonnet never had a Promise-based ATA/100 or/133 RAID card, so there was no direct crossover into the chipsets used in the Xserve.  FirmTek apparently made such hardware for other brands but not necessarily with Mac compatibility.  (I still have to determine if OWC was one such client of FirmTek for Mac-supported Promise ATA/100 and/or 133 RAID controllers.  Information is scarce.)

  Now this isn't automatically a show-stopper because there is probably a section of the non-RAID firmware that could be patched into the RAID firmware to make OS 9 happy, even though the Promise chips are different part numbers.  What it does mean is that the Xserve controllers probably have to be flashed while attached to a PCI card in a PC.  Not easy but not impossible.  Either that or the Sonnet firmware flasher might be tricked into accepting the Xserve hardware as a valid destination device.

  There's also a possibility of porting the OS X Promise driver back into OS 9 if that is the issue.  Validating that approach would probably involve comparing the driver contents for the non-RAID Promise cards between where they are kept in X and in 9.

  I'll do what I can to continue with this research.  What we need at this point is a way to dump the existing firmware from the Promise chips in the Xserve so the image can be compared to the firmware for the Sonnet Tempo ATA/100.

  Sorry for any confusion caused.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2016, 10:21:25 PM by MacOS Plus »

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #93 on: June 25, 2016, 01:15:59 PM »
  I have to make a correction to something I said earlier.  After extensive digging around and quadruple-fact-checking I've determined that some of the information I got about the Sonnet RAID cards was bad.  There never was a Sonnet Tempo RAID ATA/100, it was only that some people had confused the use of software RAID drives on the Sonnet Tempo ATA/100 with actual hardware RAID.  The firmware flasher I had was also mislabeled - it is for non-RAID ATA/100.

  The implication of this is Sonnet never had a Promise-based ATA/100 or/133 RAID card, so there was no direct crossover into the chipsets used in the Xserve.  FirmTek apparently made such hardware for other brands but not necessarily with Mac compatibility.  (I still have to determine if OWC was one such client of FirmTek for Mac-supported Promise ATA/100 and/or 133 RAID controllers.  Information is scarce.)

  Now this isn't automatically a show-stopper because there is probably a section of the non-RAID firmware that could be patched into the RAID firmware to make OS 9 happy, even though the Promise chips are different part numbers.  What it does mean is that the Xserve controllers probably have to be flashed while attached to a PCI card in a PC.  Not easy but not impossible.  Either that or the Sonnet firmware flasher might be tricked into accepting the Xserve hardware as a valid destination device.

  There's also a possibility of porting the OS X Promise driver back into OS 9 if that is the issue.  Validating that approach would probably involve comparing the driver contents for the non-RAID Promise cards between where they are kept in X and in 9.

  I'll do what I can to continue with this research.  What we need at this point is a way to dump the existing firmware from the Promise chips in the Xserve so the image can be compared to the firmware for the Sonnet Tempo ATA/100.

  Sorry for any confusion caused.

Hey no big deal.  I've back tracked on a lot of what I found and assumed as I learned more.  This is part of research and this is a good thing you found this out so we don't go too far down the rabbit hole.   
I should be getting a Tempo ATA/133 here pretty soon so we'll see.
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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2016, 03:22:58 PM »
  I believe that card is based on an Acard chipset.  I imagine the boot ROM section of the firmware would have to be nearly identical though.

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2016, 07:25:55 PM »
hopefully ethernet based copy protection will work. :)

btw, in around march i almost bought a palette with late 2008 Xserve quad-2,66, barebone, 40 servers for USD 3000 from the US.

with shipping and toll and insurance they would have costed me around 130 euros per piece, which is half of what you have to pay here normally.

but 40 was a bit too much, i didnt want to risk to be left with them.
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Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #96 on: June 29, 2016, 08:52:30 AM »
I love ebay (my wallet doesn't always though).
I did win the auction for the Sonnet ATA card. Should be here in a couple of weeks. (Damn them oceans slowing down deliveries.)
So hopefully it helps to identify some options for getting the xserve completely running.
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Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #97 on: July 05, 2016, 09:54:52 AM »
Small hint at the possibilities here.
So early boot hate's this ATA controller.  Primarily it has issues initializing it due to cascading interrupts.
There are some properties that set the interrupt controller stuff on the device.
OS 9 just takes that data for what it is and uses it to do the initialization.  So if the values are specifically changed to non-valid values without manipulation then it will be a no-go and cause errors.
Now when OS X boots it knows about this ATA controller and knows that it needs to take these values and change them to something else before it initializes the devices.
Now the errors seen were in the ATA-6 Device and not on the actual root controller.
So the best source of getting this working is likely the driver code from OS X.
So that's where I started and I found something kind of interesting.

In the child devices (not the root ones) there are two variables that correspond to the two child devices below the root controller.
Each one is used for initializing interrupts.
And now the best part.
These are masks. They are set with the following comment.
Code: [Select]
// initialize the interrupt control bits to mask propogation
After they are set the function to registerInterrupts is called.
This goes to the hardware and setups up the interrupts much like the OS 9's code only in this case it knows more about the device.
So now I just have to dig a little deeper and find where all these mask values come from and I should be able to manual change values to either get the thing working or at least move on to another error to resolve.



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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #98 on: July 05, 2016, 08:54:33 PM »
  It certainly would be nice if we didn't have to mess with the Promise firmware, rather only altering the basic handling by the operating system itself in the Mac OS ROM file or similar.  Whether or not we end up with a bootable device through this route remains to be seen, but we might get it working enough to test the reliability of reads/writes, general system stability, and visibility to the stock disk utility.  If that's successful we can work on bootable firmware after.

  I've been able to confirm that the FirmTek UltraTek/66 was sold by VST.  It was possible to physically modify and flash a PC Promise 66 card with the Mac firmware.  So far I can't sort out exactly where the 'family' went after that.  Supposedly the UltraTek rights were sold to Sonnet who then made the non-RAID ATA/100 card.  I've seen a few spot mentions of later "UltraTek"-marked cards but I don't have any further leads on who would have been selling them and under what brand name.

  What I did find was a possible lead to a person who might (understatement!) know more about these products.  Take a look at the following link:

http://www.beyond.com/766B5949-FB14-420A-BB8C-BD63A36816AC

  The relevant sections in his work experience are as follows:

"Driver supports MacOS-X on both Intel
Multipliers // May '06 - Jan '14

Multipliers.  Driver supports MacOS-X on both Intel x86 and Power PC processor environments.  Product is shipping since May 2006.  Full Port Multiplier support and bootability since October 2006.  Applied for patent regarding proper implementation of drive hot-swap in RAID environment.  The implementation of the drive hot-swap in shipping drivers is based on the ideas disclosed in this patent application.

Developed the UltraTek/66, Tempo/100, Tempo/133 PCI card (ATA), SeriTek/1Sxxx SATA (Serial ATA), SeriTek/1Vxxx firmware and device driver families for Macintosh, OpenFirmware (OpenBoot) bootstrap driver, Apple PCI DDK for Mac OS-9 (SIM, SCSI Interface Module), Mac OS-X IOKit kernel-driver.  The products are currently selling under either FirmTek or Sonnet brand.  Programming environment: Metrowerks "C" for Mac OS 9, Apple PCI DDK 2.0, Apple's standard C/C++/ObjC tools or MacOS-X.  Usage of I/O Kit framework under MacOS-X.  Cocoa framework for application (firmware flash utility) support.  Hardware tools used: Innotec ATA bus analyser, Bus Doctor SATA/SAS analyzers."


"Driver Architect for MacOS-X IOKit
FirmTek, LLC // Jul '99 - Nov '12"

Driver Architect for MacOS-X IOKit platform, www.firmtek.com.  Developed the Serial ATA firmware and device driver for Macintosh (Mac OS-X 10.4.0 and up, x86 and PPC) based on AHCI 1.3 SATA API model supporting SATA Port Multiplier at FIS-based switching level.  To support S.M.A.R.T. functionality the driver is based on IOATAController, not on the IOSCSIParallelInterface class.  Developed the Serial ATA firware and device driver for Macintosh (Mac OS-X, Mac OS-9) based on Silicon Image 3132/3124 FIS-based SATA API model.  Industry's unique OpenFirmware (OpenBoot) bootstrap driver supporting booting from any drive attached to SATA Port Multiplier.  Driver and pre-boot firmware fully supports SATA Port."


  Literally this guy developed the firmware and drivers for all the cards we've been talking about.  If anyone's going to know what we need to do it's probably him.  He's even worked extensively for Apple.  You might want to read all the detail sections of his resume because he's got extensive knowledge of drivers, including graphics drivers, and boot code on Mac systems going back to the early 90's.

  He must know plenty that he's not bound by non-disclosure agreements to not talk about.  He seems to have a passion for this stuff and would probably be quite pleased we cared about his work.  I have no idea how we might contact him but hopefully someone else on the forums can help track him down.

  I believe this is his LinkedIn profile also:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-rath-6117a565

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #99 on: July 06, 2016, 06:43:54 AM »
  It certainly would be nice if we didn't have to mess with the Promise firmware, rather only altering the basic handling by the operating system itself in the Mac OS ROM file or similar.  Whether or not we end up with a bootable device through this route remains to be seen, but we might get it working enough to test the reliability of reads/writes, general system stability, and visibility to the stock disk utility.  If that's successful we can work on bootable firmware after.

  I've been able to confirm that the FirmTek UltraTek/66 was sold by VST.  It was possible to physically modify and flash a PC Promise 66 card with the Mac firmware.  So far I can't sort out exactly where the 'family' went after that.  Supposedly the UltraTek rights were sold to Sonnet who then made the non-RAID ATA/100 card.  I've seen a few spot mentions of later "UltraTek"-marked cards but I don't have any further leads on who would have been selling them and under what brand name.

  What I did find was a possible lead to a person who might (understatement!) know more about these products.  Take a look at the following link:

http://www.beyond.com/766B5949-FB14-420A-BB8C-BD63A36816AC

  The relevant sections in his work experience are as follows:

"Driver supports MacOS-X on both Intel
Multipliers // May '06 - Jan '14

Multipliers.  Driver supports MacOS-X on both Intel x86 and Power PC processor environments.  Product is shipping since May 2006.  Full Port Multiplier support and bootability since October 2006.  Applied for patent regarding proper implementation of drive hot-swap in RAID environment.  The implementation of the drive hot-swap in shipping drivers is based on the ideas disclosed in this patent application.

Developed the UltraTek/66, Tempo/100, Tempo/133 PCI card (ATA), SeriTek/1Sxxx SATA (Serial ATA), SeriTek/1Vxxx firmware and device driver families for Macintosh, OpenFirmware (OpenBoot) bootstrap driver, Apple PCI DDK for Mac OS-9 (SIM, SCSI Interface Module), Mac OS-X IOKit kernel-driver.  The products are currently selling under either FirmTek or Sonnet brand.  Programming environment: Metrowerks "C" for Mac OS 9, Apple PCI DDK 2.0, Apple's standard C/C++/ObjC tools or MacOS-X.  Usage of I/O Kit framework under MacOS-X.  Cocoa framework for application (firmware flash utility) support.  Hardware tools used: Innotec ATA bus analyser, Bus Doctor SATA/SAS analyzers."


"Driver Architect for MacOS-X IOKit
FirmTek, LLC // Jul '99 - Nov '12"

Driver Architect for MacOS-X IOKit platform, www.firmtek.com.  Developed the Serial ATA firmware and device driver for Macintosh (Mac OS-X 10.4.0 and up, x86 and PPC) based on AHCI 1.3 SATA API model supporting SATA Port Multiplier at FIS-based switching level.  To support S.M.A.R.T. functionality the driver is based on IOATAController, not on the IOSCSIParallelInterface class.  Developed the Serial ATA firware and device driver for Macintosh (Mac OS-X, Mac OS-9) based on Silicon Image 3132/3124 FIS-based SATA API model.  Industry's unique OpenFirmware (OpenBoot) bootstrap driver supporting booting from any drive attached to SATA Port Multiplier.  Driver and pre-boot firmware fully supports SATA Port."


  Literally this guy developed the firmware and drivers for all the cards we've been talking about.  If anyone's going to know what we need to do it's probably him.  He's even worked extensively for Apple.  You might want to read all the detail sections of his resume because he's got extensive knowledge of drivers, including graphics drivers, and boot code on Mac systems going back to the early 90's.

  He must know plenty that he's not bound by non-disclosure agreements to not talk about.  He seems to have a passion for this stuff and would probably be quite pleased we cared about his work.  I have no idea how we might contact him but hopefully someone else on the forums can help track him down.

  I believe this is his LinkedIn profile also:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-rath-6117a565

I contacted him via linkedin. We'll see what happens.
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Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #100 on: July 13, 2016, 08:55:21 AM »
  I believe that card is based on an Acard chipset.  I imagine the boot ROM section of the firmware would have to be nearly identical though.
Just got the card now.

The tempo ATA 133 uses the Promise PDC20269  Not exactly the same as the xserve, but at least the same manufacturer.
I actually have some free time the next few days, so I will be working on this.
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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #101 on: July 13, 2016, 09:42:40 AM »
I actually have some free time the next few days, so I will be working on this.

We stay tuned ...  ;D
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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #102 on: July 13, 2016, 11:01:04 PM »
  I believe that card is based on an Acard chipset.  I imagine the boot ROM section of the firmware would have to be nearly identical though.
Just got the card now.

The tempo ATA 133 uses the Promise PDC20269  Not exactly the same as the xserve, but at least the same manufacturer.
I actually have some free time the next few days, so I will be working on this.

  Hmmm, weird.  Every image I ever saw of one looked nothing like a Promise chip or layout.  Maybe Sonnet had multiple releases of the 133 card, first Promise-based, then Acard-based?  Very interesting.

  I guess the thing I'm most interested in is finding out how similar the ROMs are between the ATA100 and ATA133 cards (PDC20268 vs PDC20269).

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #103 on: July 14, 2016, 04:54:46 PM »
So here's where I am at.  I haven't spent much time on it yet ( I still have the weekend ahead of me).  The Sonnet appears as a scsi card (as is expected and is noted elsewhere here).  It does contain both OS 9 and OS X drivers in it's ROM.  I've reviewed the other properties in both and on the surface they actually look almost the same.   the drivers on the ROM don't normally effect the boot process at the point we see the error (though I can be wrong there).  So no progress yet, but no attempts at anything done either.

I also have spent some time learning all about the device tree.   Man if that's not a mess of confusion to initially wrap your head around, but now that i understand the relationship between various properties and what the mean (interrupt, interrupt-controller, range,reg, #address-cells, #size-cells, #interrupt-cells, interrupt-parent. etc) I can at least piece together the structures of both cards in the device tree and how they map in and out of the various device and what is missing.  Also taking into account details from the OS X driver.   It's possible it will need an driver loaded during early boot. And although it's not in ROM the trampoline does have the ability to load one from disk.  So all is not lost.  I'm 100% sure that this can be done, just not sure how long it will take and to what extent things need to be done.
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Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #104 on: August 01, 2016, 11:17:13 AM »
UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (with nothing to show for it)

All on board ATA controllers Apple used have special code in the early boot trampoline code.  Since OS X was around when the Xserve was released code of the KIWI never got added to this early boot code.  If you remove the code for any other supported controller you will get the same glorious crashing.  OS X also has special knowledge of this stuff (already acknowledged this earlier) and so being a newer OS it know's how to handle the KIWI (my name for the controller since it's called AppleKiwi in Open firmware).  This is both good and bad news.
The good news is that I know where to patch.  The bad news is I know where to patch.
We do not have any source code for the trampoline executable.  So I am trying to find some options on how to tackle this.
But do not lose hope.  I'm still working on this one (and other things).
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Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #105 on: August 04, 2016, 07:41:45 PM »
Another small tidbit.
First (this is probably already known by some, but for others here you are)
NDRV = For the OS.  Has nothing to do with booting the OS.  Now that's not to say they aren't used early on with the OS start up, but not for booting. (example is graphics drivers.  The machine boots fine with out them, but once the OS is up a bit it switches to using the NDRV drivers.

FCODE Drivers = Needed for the device to participate in boot. This is the troublesome part of the xserve at the moment.

FCODE drivers must be stored in the devices ROM.  NDRV may or may not be in the ROM of the device. If they are they are usually the ones listed with the appl in the name and have like OSX OR OS9 in the name or something.  The FCODE drivers you don't really see exactly.

Now in my last post I noted  the trampoline knows about the ATA controllers Apple used, but it doesn't know about the Kiwi because it was never updated to care about it.  So the combination of knowledge of the ATA controller and the FCODE on the device, the trampoline code can set up the device so that OS 9 is happy to use it for booting and such.

Now comes the fun part. Getting the FCODE driver.    As noted above that driver would be in the expansion ROM of the controller.  So we need to dump that and analyze it and then we will be moving forward.  Now how do we get that FCODE you ask?

http://www.fenestrated.net/~macman/mirrors/Apple%20Technotes%20(As%20of%202002)/tn/tn2000.html

Here is the Apple tech note outline how to dump the expansion rom from a device.

So now this is all fine and good, but what good is it?  Well to help make more sense of it, it would be better in say C or some other language.  Well again Apple to the rescue. In the open source files for OS X there is the bootx project. (Yes I considered modifying that to boot 9, but it does not do enough hardware initialization so it's kind of useless)  In the bootx project files there is a sub project.  This sub project actually is an FCODE to C tool.  How cool. It looks like you just pass it a ROM image and it gives you C code.  I think that is pretty cool.

Now reality becomes a different beast here so we'll see if this actually works.

The other cool thing is this.
http://www.fenestrated.net/~macman/mirrors/Apple%20Technotes%20(As%20of%202002)/tn/tn2001.html
Ways to work with forth code from open firmware and being able to read it from the drive and execute it from the drive.  Why is this awesome? Well it give me a new approach to the early boot issues.  The current method of attack is to reverse engineer (disassemble and make sense out of a bunch of assembly. Doable, but a pain) the trampoline code. Or now my new idea.  Do sort of like GRUB does in linux with a 2.5 stage boot loader.
Essentially we can write a program that does just enough to initialize the Kiwi controller enough, load it through the boot script in the ROM image, run it then continue on and execute the trampoline code.   

Alright enough thinking out loud.
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Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #106 on: August 09, 2016, 11:12:27 AM »
I will start by saying, I'm learning more about hardware implementations then I ever thought I would.
Found documentation on PCI bus bindings as related to Open Firmware.
 
As of this time here is what I believe to be the requirements to make this ATA controller work.
An fcode driver will be required to aid in the early boot process. This might eliminate the need to reverse engineer the trampoline code (so I really hope this is the correct solution).
An ndrv for the OS.  This may or may not actually be needed. It's yet to be determined.

So the problem here is the fcode driver.  This is stored in the expansion ROM of the card. So flashing would be required to make this work, maybe.  I don't feel it's a reasonable solution to require flashing the device to make it work.  Now the way Open Firmware evaluates the FCode driver during it's start up indicates that it may be possible to load the driver from a file and execute it before doing any further booting.  When Open Firmware runs the code, it loads it to ram rather run from the rom image. There's a couple of things that might hang this up though.  So the boot script in the ROM can be modified to check for the controller and if found, load a secondary file from disk with the fcode driver and some instruction on loading and running it. Then when that returns, the original boot code can continue and if that actually works, then we have a working ATA Controller. 

Just a sidenote for anyone interested.  Fcode is nothing more than forth that has been tokenized to byte code that Open Firmware interprets.  It's pretty much exactly how Javascript and .Net work with compiling to byte code.  Thus making the drivers universal and completely independent of architecture.
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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #107 on: August 10, 2016, 08:07:00 PM »
  I've been away on vacation for a bit but I thought I'd check in.  Quite fascinating stuff!  You seem to be hinting at the possibility of using some sort of 'kick-start' drive to contain the early-boot fcode driver source file for the kiwi, which I suppose could even be a RAM-disk.  I greatly appreciate the elegance of that work-around.  Hopefully creating such a driver isn't too difficult.

  Once I return home next week I'll be paying close attention again. All very interesting!

P.S. In the spirit of all things vintage, this message was composed on an early-2000's tablet PC using a Wacom pen and Windows XP Tablet Edition's handwriting recognition!  Who needs an iPad anyway...

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #108 on: August 16, 2016, 06:12:39 AM »
  I've been away on vacation for a bit but I thought I'd check in.  Quite fascinating stuff!  You seem to be hinting at the possibility of using some sort of 'kick-start' drive to contain the early-boot fcode driver source file for the kiwi, which I suppose could even be a RAM-disk.  I greatly appreciate the elegance of that work-around.  Hopefully creating such a driver isn't too difficult.

  Once I return home next week I'll be paying close attention again. All very interesting!

P.S. In the spirit of all things vintage, this message was composed on an early-2000's tablet PC using a Wacom pen and Windows XP Tablet Edition's handwriting recognition!  Who needs an iPad anyway...

The stage I'm thinking of loading, won't require a kick-start disk.  It would still be in the execution context of Open firmware which has the capability of loading from disk so it would be the build in disk.   I was able to boot from the internal drive but it failed during the trampoline like we saw earlier.  This fix would run far before that.

Not sure when I will get on this as my time is kind of limited at the moment, and I have no reasonable setup and space to work.  This will be resolved shortly after some painting is complete in the work area and I set it all up again.
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Re: Booting an Xserve G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #109 on: January 30, 2017, 02:57:40 PM »
  I have one additional tidbit of information regarding Promise chipsets.  The story goes that due to rampant flashing of cheaper PC cards to Mac ROM in earlier generations, Promise took the step of making crossover impossible on the PDC20268 and PDC20269 non-RAID chips.  They created some sort of customized version denoted by the addition of the letter "M" to the end of the part numbers, by which it was not supposed to be possible to interchange the ROM images.

  Oddly, there doesn't seem to have been a PDC20270M variant, I guess since there was no retail Mac card released.  What this suggests is that the PDC20270 chip in the Xserve should be flash compatible with the PC card chip.  As a last resort, and as I said in an earlier posting, I would be willing to attempt a physical removal/re-solder transfer of a chip from an Xserve board to a PC or Mac PCI card if there is no other means of reading or writing the flash ROM within the Xserve.  Further, all single-chip cards with a 68/68M/69/69M/70 chipset appear to use a virtually identical PCB reference design and identical chip pin count/layout, suggesting any of those cards could host the chip from the Xserve for this purpose.

  Obviously I'm still hoping for a software-based solution. ;)

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #110 on: January 31, 2017, 08:01:06 AM »
Thanks for the update... I really thought you abandoned this in 2017... but you are one tenacious MF and I love you for that :)

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #111 on: January 31, 2017, 09:09:00 AM »
  I'm hoping to hear more from Nanopico and ELN again this year.  They seem to still be working away at the core issues with the OS.  The machine is still fully usable aside from the Promise ATA device.  Now that I finally have a working PTIII config I'm going to see if it plays nice with that.  One way or another, the 9serve will move on from being a curiosity/toy and do some real work.

  Right now I'm in the process of reorganizing my studio space and all the rest of the computers and parts here.  (Mountains, I tell ya!)  Many of my build projects have finished the major testing phases and will be finalized and put into service this year.  I just got another new desk yesterday to help with the 'space crisis' I'd hit for workstation real estate.  It's going to be a good year.

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #112 on: January 31, 2017, 11:33:49 AM »
  I'm hoping to hear more from Nanopico and ELN again this year.  They seem to still be working away at the core issues with the OS.  The machine is still fully usable aside from the Promise ATA device.  Now that I finally have a working PTIII config I'm going to see if it plays nice with that.  One way or another, the 9serve will move on from being a curiosity/toy and do some real work.

  Right now I'm in the process of reorganizing my studio space and all the rest of the computers and parts here.  (Mountains, I tell ya!)  Many of my build projects have finished the major testing phases and will be finalized and put into service this year.  I just got another new desk yesterday to help with the 'space crisis' I'd hit for workstation real estate.  It's going to be a good year.

Sorry it may be a while before you hear more from us on this one for a couple reasons.
1. It's very time consuming.
2. Between work, school and family (that's between the two of us not just me or ELN) it is hard to work on it for very long at a time
3. I honestly have done nothing on this since probably November since I've been trying to stabilize my mood so I can live a normal life again.  Though I have started working on it again.


We have a lot of work to do on that early trampoline/boot stuff that is hanging it up right now, but we do have a very good idea of what needs to be done, but not exactly how to do it right now. So no fear it will be worked on.
1.5 GB limit right now is our current goal.
Mac Mini and Xserve are probably shortly after that, but I'm not sure yet.
And I still poke around with my G5 to see how far that can get, though I'm a little hesitant right now to poke around too much after bricking my iBook :'(
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Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #113 on: January 31, 2017, 11:38:52 AM »
  Finally, just to throw it a challenge, I put the 64-bit LSI fibre channel card this machine originally came with into the remaining slot in the riser (next to the Magma bridge card).  The machine took longer to get through the start-up disk detection, again because it was now scanning the fibre channel bus for a link and drives.  After the long pause it again booted as normal!  System Profiler shows the card present.  I don't know if it would actually communicate with an FC chassis under OS 9 though.  Unfortunately I don't have any other FC gear around any longer to test that with.

Yes I know I'm quoting an old post, but...
I just got one of those cards  for my G4 xserve.  I have an xserve raid (maxed with all 14 slots filled with 750 GB drives).  I'll see if it can boot into 9 from that.  Would be kind of neat.
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Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #114 on: February 01, 2017, 06:06:22 AM »
  Finally, just to throw it a challenge, I put the 64-bit LSI fibre channel card this machine originally came with into the remaining slot in the riser (next to the Magma bridge card).  The machine took longer to get through the start-up disk detection, again because it was now scanning the fibre channel bus for a link and drives.  After the long pause it again booted as normal!  System Profiler shows the card present.  I don't know if it would actually communicate with an FC chassis under OS 9 though.  Unfortunately I don't have any other FC gear around any longer to test that with.

Yes I know I'm quoting an old post, but...
I just got one of those cards  for my G4 xserve.  I have an xserve raid (maxed with all 14 slots filled with 750 GB drives).  I'll see if it can boot into 9 from that.  Would be kind of neat.

My XServe is not in a place I can turn it on at the moment so I did some tests on a DA and MDD.

So yes as MacOS Plus says the card is recognized by OS 9.  With it installed the boot time was terrible.  I didn't directly time it, but getting it so I could click on anything took close to a minute.

OS X works fine with it and does not hang up booting.  This to be expected.
Connected the XServeRaid and tried again, same long boot in OS 9 and no drive detected. No activity even on the XServeRaid.  Boot OS X and drives in the Raid are all recognized and work as they should.

I have not tried booting from the drive yet.

So conclusion, the card shipped with the XServe is not usable in OS 9, but does work with OS X in a MDD and DA.

If I get a chance this evening I will try booting from it and see if it finds it as a boot device. I suspect it will hang and fail at some point, but will load and start, much like what the internal drive can do.
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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #115 on: February 01, 2017, 08:52:06 AM »
  Are you saying the LSI card seems to make the machines run horribly slow?  If so that sounds similar to what happened with my Medianet card on OS 9 versus working properly under OS 8.6.  If so, I wonder if the same sluggishness would persist if the LSI card were in a Sawtooth or earlier model booting 8.6?

  I also had a similar experience with a GeForce 2MX card in a Quicksilver booting OS X the other day.  All I wanted to do was re-flash the ROM, but the system was unusable with it installed even though it would eventually complete a boot.  Different issue but similar result.

Offline nanopico

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #116 on: February 01, 2017, 09:22:40 AM »
  Are you saying the LSI card seems to make the machines run horribly slow?  If so that sounds similar to what happened with my Medianet card on OS 9 versus working properly under OS 8.6.  If so, I wonder if the same sluggishness would persist if the LSI card were in a Sawtooth or earlier model booting 8.6?

  I also had a similar experience with a GeForce 2MX card in a Quicksilver booting OS X the other day.  All I wanted to do was re-flash the ROM, but the system was unusable with it installed even though it would eventually complete a boot.  Different issue but similar result.

The LSI card did not cause any problems in OS X.  Machines appeared to run at the same speed with no issue.  In OS 9 the machines ran just fine once booted, but during boot/startup it seemed hung.  You would see the desktop, and move the mouse (I've seen this in a hung system as the mouse is handled by hardware and won't be broken by a hang), but I could not click on anything and have it do anything. After a little over a minute, it was fine and everything worked with no issue.
During start up I could see the LSI card lights flickering like it was trying to find something, the raid was having nothing to do with and showed no activity at all with it's fibre channel lights.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it, or break it so you can fix it!

Offline MacOS Plus

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #117 on: April 26, 2017, 11:45:25 AM »
  Very minor update - I finally have in transit to me two Sonnet Tempo ATA133 PCI cards (Promise PDC20269M chipset), a spare Xserve G4 Rev.1 ATA bridge board, and a Sonnet MDX Dual 1.8GHz CPU upgrade all destined for one of my G4 Xserves.  (Now I no-longer have to consider ripping the MDX out of my MDD FW800 9.2.2 system.)

  One other thing I really still would like to get hold of though is a couple of the metal CPU airflow baffles from the Rev.2 1.33GHz Xserve G4 CPU modules.  If anyone can help out with that please let me know.  A longer shot would be a front bezel for the Rev.2 Xserve G4 Slot-load since I want to see if it can be fit to the Rev.1 chassis with a substitute slot-load optical drive in place without the need to hack up anything severely.

  More OS9-on-Xserve experiments to come...

Offline IIO

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Re: Booting a xServe G4 into Mac Os 9.
« Reply #118 on: July 10, 2017, 09:04:38 AM »
i am looking forward for a solution for the mini G4. just got one for 17 euros.
would be great to avoid classic enviroment to run koblo studio. headless if neccessary.
"It is true that the "pre-emptive multitasking" advantage present in OS X can be illustrated by downloading CD-ROM ISOs and rendering chaos theory formulas while simultaneously instant messaging and posting on FaceBook what you ate... but in reality, what did you create?"
- DieHard, random forum troll at macos9lives.com