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DrMacenstein

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iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2 universal iso issue
« on: May 01, 2020, 05:45:53 AM »

Hi all! I am the proud owner of a tangerine iBook g3 Clamshell in absolute pristine condition (zero cracks, original battery with low cycles, etc.). So, I want to do my best to take care of this beautiful piece of history and part of that is upgrading it from the very buggy mac OS 9.0 that is currently installed. Unfortunately, the person I bought it from only had the OSX cd for it so I need to install 9.2.2  on my own. I downloaded the 9.2.2 universal installer iso, burned it to a CD-R with Toast 18 Titanium on my 2019 MBP (running catalina) with legacy format ISO 9660. When I put it in the iBook's CD drive it cannot read it. I know the iBook cd drive is functional because it will read the OSX CD from Apple. SO...I have a few questions.

1. Am burning this installer iso correctly? Can I use my MBP to do this?
2. Are iBook drives finicky with CD-R types/brands?
3. Is there another way to upgrade OS 9 to 9.2.2 other than booting to a CD? if so, how?
4. OS 9 and old apple hardware isn't nearly as easy to update as modern stuff (for obvious reasons) so are there any weird settings that I need to ensure are enabled/disabled to upgrade? I guess the better question here is, if I do get a working installer on the ibook, is it as straightforward as upgrading from one OSX version to another?

Here are my iBook specs:
128 MB RAM
Mac OS ROM version 3.1.1
PPC G3 300Mhz
boot ROM ver 2.4f1
model M7718LL/A
36 GB HDD (HFS+)

I have very little experience with older Apple hardware and their quirks but I absolutely love their charm and really want to learn. Thanks for any and all help with this!!
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DrMacenstein

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Re: iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2 universal iso issue
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2020, 07:39:44 AM »

I should also add that this iBook DOES NOT have firewire so booting from an external drive is out of the question from what I've read (usb no good for PPC as a boot location). So maybe a way to upgrade from the os9 operating environment??
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FBz

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Re: iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2020, 08:37:31 AM »

First off - to many, the mere mention of Catalina invokes visions of numerous futile & cursed attempts in the area of backward compatability. And while devout Apple stockholders quickly take immediate umbrage with such a factual notion… other paths of much lesser resistance are available & strongly advised.

There, I said it. Use some other path… like another older Mac OS on some other Mac to download & burn your 9.2.2. disc and then use that to install. For that matter, using the method detailed here (next / below) why not use the Clamshell itself to download OS 9.2.2?

Perhaps out of an abundance of caution… use the original OSX CD to format and dual partition the HD in the Clamshell and install a nice, clean, fresh OSX on one of those partitions. Then afterwards, install OS 9.2.2 on the other partition?

Question: If you have the original OS X install disk for the Clamshell, does it not have a “Classic” OS 9 install option also on that disc? (I don’t know.) But you could determine that upon attempting the above re-installation as noted above. If it does, fine. Not many here relish using “Classic” OS 9 - but install that if you wish on that first partition along with OSX and then… install the OS 9.2.2 download on the other partition afterwards. The famous “Dual Boot” option!

If you’ve already got a “very buggy” version of OS 9 resident, perhaps a nice new install of OS X is a very good place to begin… especially if you do have the original Clamshell install disk. Of course, if there’s something already on that HD that you wish to retain… you’ll need to back up or copy all that beforehand and you’ll need to examine those various copy/backup strategies.

Maximum OS X on the Clamshell = OS 10.3.9 / So, no Spotlight corruption concerns.

AND NOW… as you’ve updated your list of Macs… use one of those older Macs to download and burn that 9.2.2 install disk for the Clamshell.
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DrMacenstein

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Re: iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2 universal iso issue
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2020, 11:43:12 AM »

Wow, thanks for the reply! Ok so follow up question: the only other mac I have that is running OS 9 is the rev A G3 which does not have a cd writer and can't burn with a USB cd writer either (usb 1.1 too slow). So, my only option is to use the writer in either a G4 OSX system or a C2D ~ OSX system. If I do that, would you suggest burning it with a PPC system or is an intel system ok? I know catalina is a nightmare for backwards compatibility but would an older C2D system work or should I just hit up macintosh repository, grab a PPC version of Toast and burn the ISO on that to be safe. As for the OSX installation disk that came with the iBook, I made a mistake in my earlier post. They are system 9.0 software disks and the OSX disk he gave me is for a powermac G4 (??? I don't think he meant to give me that one). I honestly want to keep it in it's orginal form so 9.2.2 is as high as i want on the system. OSX just wouldnt feel right (not to mention I've been reading the horror storys of the dual boot issues OSX wreaks upon the OS 9 system).

Second follow-up question; if I use the iBook to download the 9.2.2 iso, how do I go about installing it? The iBook doesn't have a writer either. Is there a way to mount and then go through an install on the local HDD? As always, I appreciate the help!
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DrMacenstein

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Re: iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2 universal iso issue
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2020, 01:59:52 PM »

Ok so I burnt discs on both C2D and G4 systems. The iBook could read the ones from the G4s (burned via disk util @ 4x) but would freeze if I selected any files on the disks and the drive would make loud noises as if the head was slamming around on the tracks and the disk would quickly spin up mulyiple times (like someone revving a motorcycle). I'm thinking the iBook's cd drive may be on its way out or simply doesn't like CD-Rs (I've heard of this being the case as the laser pickup begins to go). Any advice on how I go about upgrading to 9.2.2 from the boot drive? Are there 9.2.2 files that aren't in ISO format? Thanks again!
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FBz

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Re:G3 Clamshell
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2020, 04:09:37 PM »

Don’t suppose that you’ve attempted to insert the end of a compressed air can tube into the CD drive to blow the dust around and maybe from the laser’s lens? You don’t have to touch the lens, just move the dust around a bit inside. Keep in mind that the older CD drives are much slower reading discs. Be very patient and let the drive chunk and spin and whir, stop and start. They are not instant.

And how odd that the OS X install disc doesn’t make all of that noise as it spins up?

You can download to the C2D iMac all day… but eliminate variables and unpack and burn to CD, by moving them to a similar era / type machine to burn those install disks. (Your MDD is a good candidate for this.) If your Clamshell already has a buggy / corrupted version of OS 9… best to wipe it and begin again. Maybe even search and download the original Clamshell (8.6) install disks from Macintosh Gardens or the Macintosh Repository… and then install up to OS 9.2.2 afterwards.

https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-os-86-ibook-g3300-clamshell-original

Still downloading with that Catalina-based Mac? Stop it.

If your MDD is stable and running even only a version of OS X… still easier to download and burn disks from there… for your Clamshell resurrection effort.

BUT, you might again try discs that you’ve already burned… and just give them more time to actually load?
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DrMacenstein

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Re: iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2 universal iso issue
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2020, 12:27:01 AM »

Hey thanks for the advice! So I tried letting the disk sit but same result. Roughly an hour later later it was still searching and whirring (like a DJ didn’t know what they’re doing). I also tried the compressed air trick to no avail (to be fair, the machine is virtually dust free). To clarify my previous post, it has better luck accessing pressed disks (the OS X one and the system 9.0 ones for an iMac) and even then, it’s spotty at best with even those. My thinking is the laser pickup is beginning to go as burned disks are harder to read than pressed disks if I remember correctly. So with all that said, is there a way to upgrade my os 9.0 to 9.2.2 without the use of a burned disk? Bear in mind the following roadblock also applies for me: this iBook has no FireWire port so an external drive is out (which is the the only thing I’ve seen online as a viable cd-less option). Thanks for the help with this!
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iMac G3 Rev A Bondi Blue
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PowerBook G4 Titanium 400 15 inch
MacBook C2D Black-SR 13 inch
MacBook C2D White Unibody 13 inch
eMac (2005) w/ SuperDrive
iMac G4/700 15 inch
iMac G4/1.25 20 inch
Powermac G4 MDD
iMac C2D 20 inch (P7550)
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Re: iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2 universal iso issue
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2020, 02:22:16 AM »

with legacy format ISO 9660

you are generally supposed to burn "images" or "isos" as such - and not copy the data content into some new format using random file systems.
toast should make that easy, you just got to have the balls to ignore its "i cant read that stuff" message.
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DrMacenstein

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Re: iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2 universal iso issue
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2020, 03:57:28 AM »

???...so ISO 9660 is the data/file structure in which the data is written to the burned disk. It’s still in iso format, just structured via iso 9660 standard which happened to be the standard most compatible with old cd drives. So in this instance, I did burn the disk directly from the iso image in toast while checking to option for legacy format compatibility (iso 9660). I absolutely did NOT “copy the data into some new format.” Also, there’s no “balls’ to be taken; Toast isn’t the problem, nor am I afraid to try any option available; the disks burn fine. I also used disk utility to burn the disks as well just to rule out any program related issue as I previously stated in the thread. This isn’t even the case, the destination iBook just freezes and continually attempts to read the disk to no avail. Again, has nothing to do with the data structure as it’s how the disk is supposed to be burned (Apple retail disks are pressed with the data in the same structure). Here’s a good write up if you wish to learn more about CD file systems:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9660
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020, 04:08:54 AM by DrMacenstein »
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DrMacenstein

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Re: iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2 universal iso issue
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2020, 04:00:11 AM »

Moving forward, I believe the drive is going bad and I would hate to get caught mid-install where it fails. Does anyone have any experience doing a 9.2.2 upgrade from 9.0 without the use of a CD or external drive (again, I have no FireWire on this iBook). Thanks in advance!
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eMac (2005) w/ SuperDrive
iMac G4/700 15 inch
iMac G4/1.25 20 inch
Powermac G4 MDD
iMac C2D 20 inch (P7550)
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FBz

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Re:Clamshell Hell
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2020, 10:08:59 AM »

If you are bound and determined to update your admitted & prior-reported “buggy” OS 9 on the Clamshell, you might try downloading the sequential OS 9 updates from Macintosh Repository - direct to your Clamshell and then updating OS 9 in that manner. I doubt that the update downloads are still available direct from Apple, but you could search for them there as well.

Here’s a pic of the Apple updater files that I did download & install... from Apple back in 2003.


And here’s that Mac Repository link for the updaters…
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/814-mac-os-9-updaters-us-english-

If these downloads and desktop installs are successful on the Clamshell and it is still unstable / buggy, here are some very good videos from David Murray (via YouTube) detailing disassembly, HD removal & replacement AND OS install methods for the Clamshell.

Thank you Mr. Murray!

(1). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCdO4eaE4xE&vl=en
(2). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pU6aaReqxE
(3). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyJG4RKP1VQ
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DrMacenstein

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Re: iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2 universal iso issue
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2020, 10:53:36 AM »

Hey thanks! I think the bugs are just software related so maybe the updates will correct. In a perfect world, I'd wipe and do a fresh install with 9.2.2 but as far as I can tell there is just no way to do that with the CD drive being unreliable, no firewire port and the HDD still in the iBook. I had researched a post on here about netboot images but it's very involved and not really meant for this particular machine so I am not really inclined to try. Because the shell is in such good condition, I am VERY hesitant to do anything that would force me to disassemble the iBook as that is how the cracks begin. I know some day I will most likey have to (when the hdd eventually needs to be replaced) but I want to avoid it as long as possible. When that day comes, I'll replace the HDD with an SSD, do a fresh 9.2.2 istall and try to replace the CD drive with a new one. Thanks again for your help, I'll use these update files for now.
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FBz

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Re:Clamshell Hell
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2020, 11:07:50 AM »

Well, best of luck and do keep us posted
...successful or not. ::)

After watching those videos, I might attempt
a disassembly (and I avoid such laptop stuff).
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DrMacenstein

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Re: iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2 universal iso issue
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2020, 05:39:50 PM »

Ok...Solved. So here's everything I did:

1. Downloaded the update files, loaded them on to a USB drive and attempted to execute them from it (failed) and then from the HDD itself (failed). Apparently they also need to be executed from a CD (well, shit).
2. More research - according to some iBook experts out there in the interwebs, the CD drives and OS 9 on these machines are EXTREMELY picky and yes, the laser pickup has trouble as the drives age. They also only like certain CD-R media burned at certain speeds due to this finicky pickup (basically, its ability to compensate for disc wobble is diminished and it loses its place on the disc). Most people had success burning from toast from an OS 9 environment. Older OS X environments are very hit and miss (more often than not, misses) and it’s definitely a no-go for any intel mac.
3. With that knowledge, I fired up my PowerMac G4 Titanium (has a CD writer, PPC, and the ability to boot OS 9 natively), completely wiped its SSD, partitioned it unter OS X Jaguar which allowed for the install of OS 9 drivers to said partitions (must be done from a clean drive hence the wipe) and re-installed OSX.
3a. Once Jaguar installed, followed this post: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1859.0.html and restored the second partition with the OS9 "drag&drop" DMG. Then, made sure to re-bless the System folder, rebooted with option key held and booted the powermac G4 into OS 9.
3b. From there, went to Macintoshrepository.org (via classilla..thanks to whomever baked that one in!!) and downloaded Toast 3, then downloaded the 9.2.2 universal iso and burned it via toast 3 at 1x speed (dear lord).
4. Fired up the iBook, popped the newly minted CD in, crossed my fingers and said ten hail mary's and...it read it!!!!. Quickly restarted holding C key to boot from CD, wiped the HDD and installed a fresh minty copy of OS 9.2.2!!
5. Cracked open a beer and enjoyed the classic OS goodness.

Thanks to everyone who help me out with this, I definitely learned a lot throughout the process and have a newfound respect for the classic mac whisperers! I absolutely love this thing though and it's a great addition to my collection so totally worth it.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 12:39:00 AM by DrMacenstein »
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iMac G4/700 15 inch
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Powermac G4 MDD
iMac C2D 20 inch (P7550)
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Re: iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2 universal iso issue
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2020, 07:06:50 PM »

???...so ISO 9660 is the data/file structure in which the data is written to the burned disk. It’s still in iso format, just structured via iso 9660 standard which happened to be the standard most compatible with old cd drives.

when you burn an image file with toast as image ("copy" or however it is called) you are usually not confronted with the file structure at all - except when the sector size differs from PC media (such as with akai discs)

so when you mentioned that you are using this format it sounded bad like you copied the content of the mounted image - and you wouldnt be the first one.
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DrMacenstein

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Re: iBook G3 Clamshell 9.2.2 universal iso issue
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2020, 12:37:19 AM »

???...so ISO 9660 is the data/file structure in which the data is written to the burned disk. It’s still in iso format, just structured via iso 9660 standard which happened to be the standard most compatible with old cd drives.

when you burn an image file with toast as image ("copy" or however it is called) you are usually not confronted with the file structure at all - except when the sector size differs from PC media (such as with akai discs)

so when you mentioned that you are using this format it sounded bad like you copied the content of the mounted image - and you wouldnt be the first one.

Then it sounds like selecting iso “9660” on the data tab must’ve been a needless step as I did use the disc copy tab to burn it. Lol, Oh well. To be honest and from what I’ve read, apparently old Macs often require voodoo and certain planets to be in alignment to do what you want them to do. As you can see from my previous post, there were quite a few hoops I ended up having to jump through in order to get this to work.
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Currently owned systems:

iMac G3 Rev A Bondi Blue
iBook G3 Tangerine 300mhz
PowerBook G4 Titanium 400 15 inch
MacBook C2D Black-SR 13 inch
MacBook C2D White Unibody 13 inch
eMac (2005) w/ SuperDrive
iMac G4/700 15 inch
iMac G4/1.25 20 inch
Powermac G4 MDD
iMac C2D 20 inch (P7550)
MacBook Air 13 inch (2010)
iMac 27 inch 5K (2015)
MacBook Pro 15 inch (2019)
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