Author Topic: G3 & movies  (Read 45890 times)

Offline Graveyard

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G3 & movies
« on: March 21, 2014, 01:54:07 AM »
Hey guys. I was wonering if any o you have experience in converting movies to be watched on older machines like the iMac G3 or old iBooks. I am planning to convert some movies for a friend of mine that has one of my old iMacs. He's using both OS9 and Tiger. I am more interested in the OS9 part. What player would you use and how would you convert the files, in which format? I'll be doing the video conversion on my i5 iMac so it doesn't take ages.
27" iMac Intel Core i5 3,1 GHz, 16GB ddr3, 1TB hdd, Radeon HD 6970 1GB gddr5
MacPro 8 core Xeon 2,8 GHz
PowerMac G5 Dual Core 2,3 GHz
17" iMac G5 1,6GHz
PowerMac G4 Quicksilver dual 800MHz
PowerMac G4 MDD, Dual 1,25GHz
PowerMac G3 B&W 400MHz
iMac G3 Ruby 400MHz
IMac G3 Blueberry 400MHz
PowerBook G3 400MHz, AirPort
Macintosh Quadra 610
Macintosh Classic II
SGI O2 R10000SC 175MHz, 192 MB ram, 4GB hdd
Other stuff:PS4 slim, PS3 slim, Xbox classic, Xbox 360, Nintendo 64, Nintendo DSi XL, Gameboy Advance, Original GameBoy, GameBoy color.

supernova777

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2014, 03:27:56 AM »
im not sure id want to use a g3 for that!!
i use an ipad first generation for watching vids on my local network.
im stuck using this app called AVplayerHD and it always crashes watching videos over the network
but its cool u can also connect to the ipad via FTP + upload movie files directly onto the ipad..
i STILL cant install VLC on the stupid thing because the new version requires iOS 6+ and im stuck using iOS 5.1.1
(typical apple tactics bullshit to make u buy a new one when u dont need to)


anyway.. maybe someone else has some ideas for u mr graveyard!
i would think any workable solution for video watching on a g3 would be very reliant upon hardware accelleration
and what format you are decoding better not require too much cpu;)

Offline Graveyard

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2014, 04:51:37 AM »
I still have some really old discs with movies. I downloaded them ages ago when the G3 was still in its prime. They are all encoded using divx. Maybe i can find out the resolution, bitrate and codec they were made with since all of them play perfectly on the G3.
27" iMac Intel Core i5 3,1 GHz, 16GB ddr3, 1TB hdd, Radeon HD 6970 1GB gddr5
MacPro 8 core Xeon 2,8 GHz
PowerMac G5 Dual Core 2,3 GHz
17" iMac G5 1,6GHz
PowerMac G4 Quicksilver dual 800MHz
PowerMac G4 MDD, Dual 1,25GHz
PowerMac G3 B&W 400MHz
iMac G3 Ruby 400MHz
IMac G3 Blueberry 400MHz
PowerBook G3 400MHz, AirPort
Macintosh Quadra 610
Macintosh Classic II
SGI O2 R10000SC 175MHz, 192 MB ram, 4GB hdd
Other stuff:PS4 slim, PS3 slim, Xbox classic, Xbox 360, Nintendo 64, Nintendo DSi XL, Gameboy Advance, Original GameBoy, GameBoy color.

supernova777

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2014, 05:04:58 AM »
I still have some really old discs with movies. I downloaded them ages ago when the G3 was still in its prime. They are all encoded using divx. Maybe i can find out the resolution, bitrate and codec they were made with since all of them play perfectly on the G3.

sure u can do that, but personally, if i had a g3 i wouldnt try to do Multimedia type things with it...
in my mind, g3s = MIDI tracking, sequencing... or doing text programming work.. actual coding..
rock some applescript;) or help us hack some rom firmwares;D
watching movies is for the tired, stoned,drunk+ braindead;) lol
jk i watch movies;P actually i tend to watch full seasons of 90s shows because im nostalgic about the 90s;)
but honestly i bet my ipad decodes movies better then a g3 would.. maybe not if it had a 1ghz zif upgrade
+ A good radeon 9250 video card..
what video card do u have? are u talkin about ibook g3 or desktop g3?


Offline Graveyard

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2014, 06:57:54 AM »
I gave this friend one of my G3 iMacs. 400MHz model. He can't afford anything else and i thought that since i had two of them, he could use one. If i could give him a newer one, i would have done so. So he'll have to use it for a while.
27" iMac Intel Core i5 3,1 GHz, 16GB ddr3, 1TB hdd, Radeon HD 6970 1GB gddr5
MacPro 8 core Xeon 2,8 GHz
PowerMac G5 Dual Core 2,3 GHz
17" iMac G5 1,6GHz
PowerMac G4 Quicksilver dual 800MHz
PowerMac G4 MDD, Dual 1,25GHz
PowerMac G3 B&W 400MHz
iMac G3 Ruby 400MHz
IMac G3 Blueberry 400MHz
PowerBook G3 400MHz, AirPort
Macintosh Quadra 610
Macintosh Classic II
SGI O2 R10000SC 175MHz, 192 MB ram, 4GB hdd
Other stuff:PS4 slim, PS3 slim, Xbox classic, Xbox 360, Nintendo 64, Nintendo DSi XL, Gameboy Advance, Original GameBoy, GameBoy color.

supernova777

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2014, 10:24:38 AM »
thats called scrapin the bottom of the bucket;) lol
:D  :-X
i think i was always amazed seeing computers play movies back around that time... late 90s..
it never worked that well from what i remember..
not like vlc works nowadays thats for sure..

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2014, 04:08:32 PM »
Hey guys. I was wonering if any o you have experience in converting movies to be watched on older machines like the iMac G3 or old iBooks. I am planning to convert some movies for a friend of mine that has one of my old iMacs. He's using both OS9 and Tiger. I am more interested in the OS9 part. What player would you use and how would you convert the files, in which format? I'll be doing the video conversion on my i5 iMac so it doesn't take ages.

Read this from the Great Zen http://powerpcliberation.blogspot.ca/2012/08/video-on-powerpc-part-2-playback-on-g3.html
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline Graveyard

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2014, 01:23:15 AM »
Thanks for the link. I had read that article a while ago. It has some useful info though.
I'm really amazed by how much the world has changed around us. Flash has become a resource hog, video codecs likewise... In 2006 i had an almost identical iMac as i described above, on my desk and i could still download torrents and watch a movie on the damn thing. Youtube still worked like a charm. What the hell is happening? I don't see any improvements to the video quality in general when i access youtube. I don't want all that crap in HD all the time. And video codecs... The usual video file you find on the web is still about the size of a cd. ~700 MB. Quality? Still the same i had back in the good old days when i started watching movies on something else besides my tv. If i want better quality, i get myself a 1080p file and that's it. I know you guys are audio professionals, but maybe someone can shed some light on this. Maybe i am just too damn ingnorant to see some hidden facts in all of this...
27" iMac Intel Core i5 3,1 GHz, 16GB ddr3, 1TB hdd, Radeon HD 6970 1GB gddr5
MacPro 8 core Xeon 2,8 GHz
PowerMac G5 Dual Core 2,3 GHz
17" iMac G5 1,6GHz
PowerMac G4 Quicksilver dual 800MHz
PowerMac G4 MDD, Dual 1,25GHz
PowerMac G3 B&W 400MHz
iMac G3 Ruby 400MHz
IMac G3 Blueberry 400MHz
PowerBook G3 400MHz, AirPort
Macintosh Quadra 610
Macintosh Classic II
SGI O2 R10000SC 175MHz, 192 MB ram, 4GB hdd
Other stuff:PS4 slim, PS3 slim, Xbox classic, Xbox 360, Nintendo 64, Nintendo DSi XL, Gameboy Advance, Original GameBoy, GameBoy color.

Offline Dane D.

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2014, 07:08:34 PM »
Hey guys. I was wonering if any o you have experience in converting movies to be watched on older machines like the iMac G3 or old iBooks. I am planning to convert some movies for a friend of mine that has one of my old iMacs. He's using both OS9 and Tiger. I am more interested in the OS9 part. What player would you use and how would you convert the files, in which format? I'll be doing the video conversion on my i5 iMac so it doesn't take ages.
In my experience, the G3 is not good at playing movies unless there are low-quality. My solution is to get the movie onto a DVD, than the G3 with a 900MHz - 1.1GHz after market CPU and at least a ATi 9200 card will play back just fine.

For example, I shot HD video, import via iMovie and export at highest quality which I think is 960x540. iMovie at least the version I have, will not export in HD. Than I create a DVD in iDVD and burn to disc. Works great.

supernova777

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2014, 07:37:03 PM »
Thanks for the link. I had read that article a while ago. It has some useful info though.
I'm really amazed by how much the world has changed around us. Flash has become a resource hog, video codecs likewise... In 2006 i had an almost identical iMac as i described above, on my desk and i could still download torrents and watch a movie on the damn thing. Youtube still worked like a charm. What the hell is happening? I don't see any improvements to the video quality in general when i access youtube. I don't want all that crap in HD all the time. And video codecs... The usual video file you find on the web is still about the size of a cd. ~700 MB. Quality? Still the same i had back in the good old days when i started watching movies on something else besides my tv. If i want better quality, i get myself a 1080p file and that's it. I know you guys are audio professionals, but maybe someone can shed some light on this. Maybe i am just too damn ingnorant to see some hidden facts in all of this...

its just the codec + encoding that most people + services have moved on to use thats the problem..
some of the "Rips" that u see on torrents and stuff like that.. have been made by 'codec pros' painstakingly testing over and over to get the codecs + options jus right for good playback on lower end systems.. but this is becoming more and more rare now that hardware is getting better and better. people dont care about making the stuff work on lowbie macs because theres a large amt of better macs available at cheap 2nd hand prices... the world has moved on.. so noone cares to make it work. its not that it cant work.. it could. if encoded with the right software with the right options..
but noone will struggle thru figuring it out or doing the wordl to encode it because its easy to have it work non optimized on todays systems..

even back in the time u described. 2005-2006 most thruput on video cards in systems were shit compared to todays pci-express bandwidths. everyone was running AGP video still..
not only that therse been advancedments in compression and better codecs like Mastroska.. MKV
mp4.. what was the standard back in 2006? .wmv .mpeg .flv . mov?

i remember flv was a huge move forward for the internet around 2004-2005
youtube went live on February 14, 2005... i think it was flash player 8
that was the one that made flash video good enough that they could make a site like youtube and before FLV format people were already making video in flash just in basic
.swf files

supernova777

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2014, 12:10:45 AM »

Offline Philgood

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2014, 01:54:02 AM »
Like it is said before. The G3 iMac 400 if it's the firewire one has dvd decoder built into its graphic card but for other video codecs its playback is getting very choppy.
another great blog is
http://ppcluddite.blogspot.com/?m=1
its very linux centric but i got the best results of playing youtube videos with a linux distro called mintppc.
worth a try also it's not that easy to install if you aren't used to linux command computing.
*G4 MDD 1.25GHz (Single 2003)* with 2x 80Gb harddrives, 1Gb RAM, Tascam US-428 and Edirol FA-101 USB/Firewire soundcards-*iMac G3 DV 400MHz* with installs from OS 8.6-OSX Tiger on different harddrives-*Powerbook G4 1.67Ghz* with new SSD ! Love it.

Offline Graveyard

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2014, 03:17:36 AM »
I wouldn't install Linux on any of my Macs. It's not worth it and the advantages are next to none.
I have been an active developer in the Linux community for more than 10 years now, so the installation process of a ppc distribution doesn't scare me. It's just that if i wanted a Linux box, I'd have built one from scratch. I have plenty of PC parts to build a couple of them. I have no desire or time to do that.
27" iMac Intel Core i5 3,1 GHz, 16GB ddr3, 1TB hdd, Radeon HD 6970 1GB gddr5
MacPro 8 core Xeon 2,8 GHz
PowerMac G5 Dual Core 2,3 GHz
17" iMac G5 1,6GHz
PowerMac G4 Quicksilver dual 800MHz
PowerMac G4 MDD, Dual 1,25GHz
PowerMac G3 B&W 400MHz
iMac G3 Ruby 400MHz
IMac G3 Blueberry 400MHz
PowerBook G3 400MHz, AirPort
Macintosh Quadra 610
Macintosh Classic II
SGI O2 R10000SC 175MHz, 192 MB ram, 4GB hdd
Other stuff:PS4 slim, PS3 slim, Xbox classic, Xbox 360, Nintendo 64, Nintendo DSi XL, Gameboy Advance, Original GameBoy, GameBoy color.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2014, 07:11:40 AM »
I wouldn't install Linux on any of my Macs. It's not worth it and the advantages are next to none.
I have been an active developer in the Linux community for more than 10 years now, so the installation process of a ppc distribution doesn't scare me. It's just that if i wanted a Linux box, I'd have built one from scratch. I have plenty of PC parts to build a couple of them. I have no desire or time to do that.
I can not be agree with you.  >:(

It depends of the uses you want for the PowerMac. If you need to browse in internet bank accounts or unknow pages, a debian install is a need. If you just want to browse in MacOS9Lives! and other forums, maybe you can still use any MacOS with the help of Classilla/TenFourFox. For ONLY videoplayback/multimedia/DAW MacOS  is the OS

I beg any user of PowerPC connected to internet take a look on http://powerpcliberation.blogspot.com.es/2014/07/flash-is-really-dead.html written by RatedWin. I try to read weekly on http://powerpcliberation.blogspot.com.es/ http://ppcluddite.blogspot.com.es/ http://happymacs.wordpress.com/ and http://vivapowerpc.tk/ to see how to use safely PowerMacs in 2014...

If you use Classilla/TenFourFox the blog from Kameron Kaiser is a must! http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com.es/


Back to topic, I am also interested in videoplayback with LowEndMacs on OS9.

I have a G3 B&W originally @350 that could play DVD thru the daughter board (decoder card) of my PCI Rage128GL. I have 2 cards and only one daughter card, so I can emulate one decoderless set. I think it gives MPEG2 acceleration but ONLY on OS9 (?)

Let us have a deep look at http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/video

Apple DVD Player 2.7 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/apple-dvd-player
Cornica SensePack for QuickTime http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/cornica-sensepack-quicktimetm
Seagull Video Player http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/seagull-video-player
3ivx for MacOS 9 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/3ivx-macos-9
DivX 3.11 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/divx-311
DivX 4 codec http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/divx-4-codec
DivX v5.0 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/divx-v50
DivX 5.1.1 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/divx-511-divx%C2%AE-codec-mac-os
Xvid for Mac OS 9 v.4.51 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/xvid-mac-os-9-v451
AC-3 Codec for Mac OS 9 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/ac-3-codec-mac-os-9
QuickTime 6.0.3 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/quicktime-603
QuickTime 6.x http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/quicktime-6x
Final Cut Pro 2.0 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/final-cut-pro-20
Windows Media Player 7 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/windows-media-player-7
iMovie 2.1.2 http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/imovie-212-works-sheepshaver

It is a matter of the right CODECs for the CPU you have and the I/O your hard drive/DVD can give. If you use UNCOMPRESSED video, teorically you can play HD on OS9


« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 09:31:30 AM by Protools5LEGuy »
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2014, 07:26:01 AM »
@Mactron: What app did you used to test the I/O of the harddrives? We need to know the maximum I/O of these systems to find the best CODEC for that bitrate

@Graveyard: iMacs G3s and old iBooks have different harddrives/graphics cards.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/ibook/specs/ibook.html the original ibook have a
Quote
2X AGP ATI Rage Mobility graphics with 4 MB of VRAM packed into a sleek handle-equipped "blueberry" or "tangerine" case with a 12.1" TFT active matrix display (800x600 native resolution).
has     EIDE/ATA-2

The original iMac
Quote
ATI Rage IIc graphics with 2 MB of VRAM or ATI Rage Pro Turbo graphics with 6 MB of VRAM
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_ab.html has     EIDE (ATA-3)
The iMac can handle
Quote
display supports 640x480 at 117 Hz, 800x600 at 95 Hz, and 1024x768 at 75 Hz

Do you want to find a generic codec for a 800x600 res?
I want to find the way to edit HD footage recorded with my Sony Ericson MT-15 XperiaNeo (1280x720 @30fps in H264 - MPEG-4 AVC (part 10) (avc1) Planar 4:2:0 YUV) on FinalCutPro3 on OS9.  :P
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 07:42:42 AM by Protools5LEGuy »
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2014, 07:52:55 AM »
I gave this friend one of my G3 iMacs. 400MHz model. He can't afford anything else and i thought that since i had two of them, he could use one. If i could give him a newer one, i would have done so. So he'll have to use it for a while.
There are 3 @400 models
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_dv_400.html
ATI Rage 128 VR 2D/3D video with 8 MB of VRAM
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_se_dv_400.html
ATI Rage 128 VR 2D/3D video with 8 MB of VRAM
http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/specs/imac_dv_400_indigo.html
ATI Rage 128 Pro (AGP 2X) video with 8 MB of VRAM
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline MacTron

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2014, 09:29:29 AM »
@Mactron: What app did you used to test the I/O of the harddrives? We need to know the maximum I/O of these systems to find the best CODEC for that bitrate
To test the I/O of the hard drives I use QuickBench 1.5.
But forget about Hard Disk throughput, Video card and so on.
800 - 1500 Kbps compressed video, can be played even from a floppy disk! LOL.
And the video card help on video decoding may be hard to measure, despite DVD playback that use a different mechanism.
The most important part is the CPU (to decode video) and the path from CPU,memory and video, that follow the uncompressed video.
So around 500Mhz G3, and 50/66 mhz (or even 100 mhz) memory buses and PCI video cards may be hard to decode video mp4 (or divx/xvid) around to 640*480 24fps.
My first and only advice is to use 3IVX 4.5 to decode mp4 or divx/xvid as is the faster decoder under Os 9. 25%-50% faster than divx 5.1.1 and 100% faster than Apple MP4! (I'm writing from memory...)
Quote
I want to find the way to edit HD footage recorded with my Sony Ericson MT-15 XperiaNeo (1280x720 @30fps in H264 - MPEG-4 AVC (part 10) (avc1) Planar 4:2:0 YUV) on FinalCutPro3 on OS9.  :P
There isn't h264 or x264 in Mac Os 9.  :'(
Please don't PM about things that are not private.

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2014, 09:56:20 AM »

Quote
I want to find the way to edit HD footage recorded with my Sony Ericson MT-15 XperiaNeo (1280x720 @30fps in H264 - MPEG-4 AVC (part 10) (avc1) Planar 4:2:0 YUV) on FinalCutPro3 on OS9.  :P
There isn't h264 or x264 in Mac Os 9.  :'(
I know, but we are talking about convert videofiles on  Intel machines to be "G3" playable. And I talk about converting them on Win/OSX to be editable with FinalCutPro3 on OS9...
http://www.macworld.com/article/1001461/finalcut.html
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00005TRYQ/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Final-Cut-Pro-3-Professional-Video-Editing-Mac-OSX-OS9-Brand-New-/261548533980?pt=US_Image_Video_Audio_Software&hash=item3ce581e8dc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Final-Cut-Pro-3-w-DVD-Studio-Pro-1-5-M8562Z-A-BUNDLE-/251603091521?pt=US_Web_Desktop_Publishing_Software&hash=item3a94b68041

I want to find what files are final cut "native" or premiere "native" to work on 720p30. I donĀ“t need 1080p still  ;D

https://web.archive.org/web/20021216231820/http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/specs.html
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4

Offline MacTron

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2014, 10:03:22 AM »
Mjpeg codec or mp4/divx/xvid with Avid Videoshop v3x or 4x and forget about FCP.
FCP Its painfull slow, even in some of my "High End G4s" (1.5/1.66/.2.0 Ghz!)
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: G3 & movies
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2014, 10:19:09 AM »

To test the I/O of the hard drives I use QuickBench 1.5.


Where?

Mjpeg codec or mp4/divx/xvid with Avid Videoshop v3x or 4x and forget about FCP.
FCP Its painfull slow, even in some of my "High End G4s" (1.5/1.66/.2.0 Ghz!)

Mjpeg codec is alowed in FCP3. I thought a software for G4 500-667 minimum would support 720p at least fluidly on a GHz dual/MDD.

It worth looking http://elvirasweeney.com/oldmac/ for video editing SD on G4s Low End

My question is: What video CODEC is PowerPC/OS9 friendly and aware of the RISC arch.? There should be codecs "easy" for G3 cpus... I know 68020 macs can play 320x200 video at 15 fps. Uncompressed video is too much info to be handle by onboard IDE but the DA/QS/MDD, but with SCSI/IDE66/SATA raids it should be achieved even on G3s.

Firewire can sustain 400Mbts/s and for HD uncompressed is needed less using the DV codec (G4 friendly)
Looking for MacOS 9.2.4