Mac OS 9 Discussion > Mac OS 9 on Unsupported Hardware
Mac Mini G4 display compatibility
ssp3:
This table has been created and moved to the top for those who don't want to read the whole thread but are after quick answers.
The table will be updated as soon as there is any new data.
NOTE 1. OS9 tests were run using v8 ROM file and appropriate extensions.
NOTE 2. v8 ROM file + ATI Via driver + patched ATI extensions = v9 ROM file + original ATI extensions as they are present on RossDarker's v9 installer CD for Mini. ATI Via driver is integrated into v9 ROM.
Note the strange setting required for Dell P190S and LG L1730P to work with RockHopper driver.
Samsung SyncMaster 203B also have problems with the same driver.
And, in contrast to both Dell 22" full HD displays, Fujitsu 23" model doesn't work with RockHopper on DVI port at all.
* I made this table in Apple's Numbers. If someone has other test results, just let me know and I will happily add them.
Original thread starts here:
I think it's time that we share our experience using Mac Mini G4s with various displays.
I own several Dells:
1x P2212H - 22", 1920x1080 @60Hz, TN type panel ("Office grade"), VGA + DVI inputs
3x U2412M - 24", 1920x1200 @60Hz, IPS type panel ("Ultrasharp), VGA + DVI + Display Port inputs
I also have 1.25; 1.42 and 1.5 GHz Mac Minis, so, lets test them and see how they work with these displays in OS9.
All System parts from RossDarker's v9 installer.
1. P2212H + 1.25 GHz or 1.42 GHz Mini
a) Using original, Dell supplied DVI to DVI cable.
This one is very odd - on the very first cold boot, when display has been disconnected from G4 and mains for a day or so, it boots into OS9 and displays at full resolution for a few minutes. Then tiny horizontal lines appear on the display and soon thereafter it goes black. On all subsequent reboots it remains black. I have to wait another day to bring back this condition. Maybe something discharges inside the display? Some sort of PRAM?
Obviously, this way of connecting is no go. :(
b) Using "el cheapo" DVI to VGA adapter at Minis' end and original, Dell supplied VGA to VGA cable. No problems whatsoever.
Displays at full resolution (1920x1080 @60Hz). Only at start-up it shows ugly looking Mac logo at 640x480 for a moment, before switching to full resolution.
I was able to take a few screenshots when using DVI to DVI cable, before display went black, so here's the proof.
2. P2212H + 1.5 GHz "Silent upgrade" Mini
a) Using original, Dell supplied DVI to DVI cable. Does not work. No matter what I do, it displays the message below.
b) Using DVI to VGA adapter + VGA to VGA cable - works as expected
3. U2412M + 1.25 GHz or 1.42 GHz Mini
a) Using original, Dell supplied DVI to DVI cable - works as expected.
b) Using DVI to VGA adapter + VGA to VGA cable - works as expected
4. U2412M + 1.5 GHz "Silent upgrade" Mini
a) Using original, Dell supplied DVI to DVI cable - doesn't work, see message below.
b) Using DVI to VGA adapter + VGA to VGA cable - works as expected
5. Sony Bravia TV, HDMI input + any of the 1.25; 1.42 or 1.5 GHz Minis
Display resolution - 1360x768 @60Hz
Using DVI to HDMI adapter at Minis' end and HDMI to HDMI cable.
All work, although I have a feeling that 1.5 GHz model hangs on boot with spinning ball more often than the others.
ssp3:
I forgot to mention. If you hold the option key, when you boot the 1.5 GHz mini, at least with my 22" Dell connected to DVI, it displays everything correctly - 1920x1080. Cursor and icon sizes as they should be.
I've spent a good part of my afternoon patching things and modifying ROMs. All I can say at the moment is that it's the ATI stuff that messes things up.
Jubadub:
--- Quote from: ssp3 on April 02, 2024, 10:51:37 AM ---I forgot to mention. If you hold the option key, when you boot the 1.5 GHz mini, at least with my 22" Dell connected to DVI, it displays everything correctly - 1920x1080. Cursor and icon sizes as they should be.
I've spent a good part of my afternoon patching things and modifying ROMs. All I can say at the moment is that it's the ATI stuff that messes things up.
--- End quote ---
Yes, not just the "alt-boot" Boot Picker menu, but even Open Firmware looks fine in 1920x1600@60Hz, and even the Happy Mac logo when booting OS 9. The problem starts however right after the Happy Mac logo is done displaying. Of course, OS X 10.2 ~ 10.5 (and probably 10.6 alpha) all show fine, too.
It'd be awesome if that issue was solved with Mac OS 9 for the 1.5GHz mini.
Also, as per request, I'm reposting my experiences here, as well, so that information on this specific issue is not "lost" in the huge Mac mini G4 megathread:
One part of me is still not 100% sure if the following is an overall "revised" / "silent upgrade" mini issue, OR a specific 1.5GHz "Super mini" issue. In other words, I don't know for sure if the 1.33GHz mini is also affected or not. I highly suspect it is, BUT... Only someone with a 1.33GHz mini can tell us for sure.
In my case, I have a DELL U2412M, it's a 16:10 aspect ratio, 24", 1920x1200 @60Hz monitor. Used with the 1.5GHz Mac mini G4 (AKA "Super mini") model.
After using these ATI Extensions, which are different from what's on both v8 and v9, I got it to recognize a lot of resolutions and frequencies, via DVI. Even 1920x1200, but only @ a frequency higher than 60Hz. But my monitor is limited to 60Hz maximum. I get a black screen if I try such higher frequencies. However, at 60Hz, I do have the option to use 1600x1200 still, which is 4:3, and it just adds some black borders to the side, but otherwise it's a pixel-native resolution that works well, as long as I configure my monitor to display everything with a 4:3 aspect ratio.
Some full-screen games automatically try to switch it to 1920x1200, though, which my Mac OS 9 can only recognize at a frequency higher than 60Hz, and so I get a black screen with them, despite what I set the resolution to. So even my manual fix is not perfect.
Using an old mid '90s CRT monitor I have, though, those ATI Extensions I mentioned lead me to get no picture.
Switching to v9's unmodified ATI drivers instead, then it "works", but only at 800 x 600 resolution, and only at 256 Colors. Some games crash when I play them like this.
Now, when I switch to v8's unmodified drivers, then it works perfectly for (almost) every resolution option it gives me, which is a lot of them! Then the same games that crashed before don't crash anymore, and I can use Millions of Colors.
I hope this helps us keep track of this issue. As you can see, short of using a 1.25GHz and 1.42GHz mini, graphics and monitors can be messy and complicated. Using precisely these 2 mini models, the issue just disappears.
RossDarker:
Something that had crossed my mind was the fact we’re using the NDRV from 10.3.7/10.3.6 in the extensions/ROM used in v8/v9 respectively. Now of course, the original Mac minis shipped with 10.3.7, but later models with 10.4.2. Perhaps the slightly upgraded graphics unit of the 1.5 GHz model doesn’t ‘like’ something from these versions of Panther.
Those other ATI Drivers from @whoisthisguy, who also has a 1.5 GHz model, use an NDRV from 10.3.9. Good discussion at http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4987.0
Tiger’s NDRV in Mac OS 9 looked promising, but the system hung once ATI extensions loaded. Leopard’s seemed to have issues too. If I recall, there was a reason for using Panther, but it could be something to revisit. https://github.com/elliotnunn/x-ndrv
Jubadub:
--- Quote from: RossDarker on April 02, 2024, 11:34:50 AM ---
--- Quote from: ssp3 on April 02, 2024, 10:14:03 AM ---Model Identifier PowerMac5,1 (Cube) is set in the boot script. BUT!
G4 Cube has one VGA port and one ADC port.
Mac Mini G4 has DVI port.
Maybe this is what confuses Mini?
--- End quote ---
You could give this older ‘Quicksilver’ ROM a try on your 1.5 GHz model. There’s a little problem with the sound being loud and distorted (line out), but it’d be worth seeing if anything with the graphics changes when different combinations of the ATI drivers are used. https://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2408.0;attach=5049
--- End quote ---
I gave this a go. Unfortunately, there were no changes in behavior with regards to video, and the video options.
--- Quote from: RossDarker on April 03, 2024, 04:25:24 AM ---Something that had crossed my mind was the fact we’re using the NDRV from 10.3.7/10.3.6 in the extensions/ROM used in v8/v9 respectively. Now of course, the original Mac minis shipped with 10.3.7, but later models with 10.4.2. Perhaps the slightly upgraded graphics unit of the 1.5 GHz model doesn’t ‘like’ something from these versions of Panther.
Those other ATI Drivers from @whoisthisguy, who also has a 1.5 GHz model, use an NDRV from 10.3.9. Good discussion at http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4987.0
Tiger’s NDRV in Mac OS 9 looked promising, but the system hung once ATI extensions loaded. Leopard’s seemed to have issues too. If I recall, there was a reason for using Panther, but it could be something to revisit. https://github.com/elliotnunn/x-ndrv
--- End quote ---
I tried the "ATI RockHopper2 Driver.sit" attachment from that thread, specifically this post, as well as "MiniG4_ATI9200_1.01.sit" from this related follow-up post. The latter one is the one I was already using to be able to use even the 4:3 resolution 1600x1200@60Hz, since v8 and v9 drivers give me no picture "out-of-range" issues. The former worked as well for me as the latter did. But neither of them allow me to use 1920x1200@60Hz (OS 9 gives me the option to use it at 76Hz, but my monitor doesn't support that).
It was a nice try, though. I also tried combining these with the "QuickSilver" ROM above, but like I said, no changes happened with that.
So basically, we have 3 video settings, so far:
1. modified ATI drivers (v8 and earlier)
2. unmodified ATI drivers (v9)
3. combination of: v8's modified ATI drivers + removal of "ATI Via Driver" + addition of @whoisthisguy's Extension (RockHopper2)
To summarize, my 1.5GHz mini:
With 1.: Works on CRTs, but not with the LCD monitor known as DELL U2412M, at least via DVI;
With 2.: Is buggy on CRTs, working only with 256 Colors at 800x600 and seemingly no acceleration, causes some 3D games to crash. Also does not work with a DELL U2412M, at least via DVI;
With 3.: Works on the DELL U2412M, at least via DVI, although 1920x1600@60Hz is not available, even though it should and even though the 1.25/1.42GHz minis can use it with v8 and I think also v9. Does not work at all on CRTs. Maybe it even crashes the OS when using a CRT?
Hearing @ssp3 on the other thread made me realize, I don't think I tested things out with the VGA port much. There's also the DisplayPort port, although I'm already using that one for something else.
--- Quote from: Jubadub on April 03, 2024, 01:43:53 AM ---After using these ATI Extensions, [...]
--- End quote ---
I put a broken link. This is the correct link. And within that post, another 3 links are referenced, which need the following URL update:
--- Quote from: pixlgeek on August 03, 2020, 07:42:09 PM ---I am running the v9 build of the Mac Mini G4 OS 9 from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=2408.1050.html
The base set of extensions comes from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=4277.msg29392.html#msg29392
and the modified RockHopper driver comes from this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=5009.0.html
--- End quote ---
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version