Thoughts on the future of Mac OS 9 Lives

[DieHard]

I'd really love to see the website extended. Remember the 2000's Mac websites with daily news and how-to tutorials? I'd really love to see a website that is a good bookmark to keep and visit after you've booted up your OS 9 machine. A page you can link to whenever somebody asks: "What is Mac OS 9 and why should one use it?".

Also potentially offer the website multilingual as in various languages if there's enough interest. (English language content being translated into French, Spanish, German etc.)

Fully aware here that not everybody will like all the changes. I'll always try to incorporate suggestions and ideas what everybody is making as long as I feel they are beneficial. But I'd also ask to accept that I can't simply make everybody happy.

What I'd like everyone to remember is that if we can pull this off, it'll be ultimately beneficial for all of us Mac OS 9 users - be it us musicians, creatives, gamers, tinkerers or whatever.

Well, an idea I had about 7 years ago, but never got to implement it, was to incorporate all the PPC stuff, System 7/8 thru Early OS X into one common site; but I actually was going to go a step further when I came to the realization during COVID that Apple repeats it's own historical mistakes over and over. 

As we all know, Apple's never ending quest to move forward is a blessing and a curse.  New technologies get established then become "yesterday's news". New hardware seems to always be missing a "port" or feature that would really come in handy.  As humans, we like things that are familiar and when change comes too quickly, we feel like we can't catch up.  With BOTH the hardware and the software changing at record pace, it's a game of "catch-up" for most of us.  This has all been said before and is obvious, but when I was still setting up ProTools rigs on snow Leopard in 2021, I was like a light bulb went off; PT10/Snow Leopard on now antiquated Intel, is Cubase on OS9 PPC.  Same story.... so my idea...

One big resource for Gamers, Artists, Musicians, Video enthusiasts called "Applegraveyard.com" or some other catchy name !

Always evolving, always changing, as Apple casts old hardware / software in the garbage bin (or graveyard cause it's dead), the site picks it up.  Old ProTools on Intel (like PT10 HD) no problem, resources here... Mac OS 9... resources here... old scanner working on Tiger... resources here... etc

One Mega-Site that basically picks up all the pieces as an invaluable resource of Mac hardware help guides, driver software, configuration tips, OS specific help and resources spanning all the "stuff' that seems to vaporize as all the little sites disappear.

[IIO]

https://ethics.org.au/ethics-explainer-deontology/

besides that it is somehow funny who were reacting to this discussion first, you obviously have no practical experience in what you suggest here.

"rules" do not even work in closed groups, and in a public forum there is simply no legitimation for anyone to set up those.

furthermore there are millions of rules already regulating all of that called civil right, netiquette and so on.
and people still upload files infected with viruses because they are dumb and lazy, insult each other because they are emotional, and violate a third party´s copyright because they do not understand the difference between 20 year old cracked software and 20 months old cracked software.

and you can kick people without written rules at any time.

and people who got kicked can come back 20 seconds later with a new email adress and continue their destructive mission.
 
 
"copyright is for sissies" - banksy

[IIO]

Well, an idea I had about 7 years ago, but never got to implement it, was to incorporate all the PPC stuff, System 7/8 thru Early OS X into one common site;

i can follow you, but somehow i dont think this will happen.

the majority of active users here have something to do with programming/hacking, hardware, or pro audio/music.

and if there would be interest in a discussion forum for MacOS9 games, there would probably be such a site already.

so if we would care for that, too, it would mean that we tried to provide a service for potential new members in a field which is not really our own interest.

you do not even get a single answer here in 5+ years when you attempt to ask if someone wants to swap graphics plug-ins. for audio it is like 40 active users plus all the lurkers.

you can f.e. also not link to the garden all the time, this would undermine the garden policy to fly under the google radar.

[IIO]

and sorry but one more post. last one, i promise.

something like a frontpage, something like FAQ stickies, something like tutorials would be nice to have, there is a lot of agreement about this.

but before we ask theo to decide how it should be implemented, everyone who wants this should first write an article, and then we can decide what to do with it.

[ssp3]

you obviously have no practical experience in what you suggest here.

I do, dear IIO, I do I'm just pointing to cause and (potential) effect.

[Jubadub]

I'm personally pleased with things so far, and I really am glad to see the return of the condensed "recent threads" feature back when viewing other threads.

I'm not worried in the least here, because @Knezzen is leading this, and because everyone here has given and is still giving their invaluable input, which helps us steer our ship where we want it to be. Our boat will keep rocking about as we set it to the correct direction, but I'm sure we will reach our destination, because the boat is rocking and not getting dragged away on still water, and because our sailors are awesome and each contributes to it differently.

I believe the few missed features that are still missing that some of us care for will in due time be back, precisely because of this. And I will once again emphasize, I'm really enjoying the forum's newfound responsiveness, and that all our old links, threads and posts are all intact.

I particularly like @FdB/@FBz/@aBc's post, it resonates with me a lot, but again I'm not concerned because I know @Knezzen will keep on doing a generally good job, because he listens to our feedback. So if there is ever a change we are not content with, we will speak up, and @Knezzen will hear and do it because he's awesome. Nearly everyone here is awesome.

One big resource for Gamers, Artists, Musicians, Video enthusiasts called "Applegraveyard.com" or some other catchy name !

Always evolving, always changing, as Apple casts old hardware / software in the garbage bin (or graveyard cause it's dead), the site picks it up.  Old ProTools on Intel (like PT10 HD) no problem, resources here... Mac OS 9... resources here... old scanner working on Tiger... resources here... etc

One Mega-Site that basically picks up all the pieces as an invaluable resource of Mac hardware help guides, driver software, configuration tips, OS specific help and resources spanning all the "stuff' that seems to vaporize as all the little sites disappear.

I believe that would be the Macintosh Garden. And, to some capacity, the "MacRumors PPC" subforum: they started "adopting" people, hardware and software that were being "abandoned" with regards to "early Intel" stuff, since the mods and admins of the main MacRumors forum do not seem to care for them enough for them to have their own subsection. And also because OS X Tiger, Leopard and even partially Snow Leopard are both PPC and Intel-related, like System 7 and Mac OS 8(.1) on 68k and PPC.

I like Mac OS 9 Lives for the fact it is Mac-OS-9-centric. I think your idea is great, but already seems to be well-covered out there (although admittedly audio hardware support may be low in my examples above). The OS 9 focus here gives us more OS 9 input/output specifically. Everything is OS-9-themed. It just wouldn't have been the same if this was "anything old Apple"-themed like TinkerDifferent, Mac Garden or even the ill-fated ThinkClassic that didn't focus on a single system.

Maybe in a few years we will also see "System 6 Paradise" forums and "Lisa & Macintosh XL Sailors" forums somewhere. Something a bit more specific than the 68kmla forums. Although more than these, I wish there was a "MacPPC schematics" forum... so we could print our own PCBs for i.e. brand-new MDD motherboards and daughtercards...

[Bolkonskij]

something like a frontpage, something like FAQ stickies, something like tutorials would be nice to have, there is a lot of agreement about this.

but before we ask theo to decide how it should be implemented, everyone who wants this should first write an article, and then we can decide what to do with it.

I'm regularly deep-diving the forum for threads that I haven't read / can't remember having read (hey, 40+ here! :-) )

Often I'm baffled at the good & sound advice you can find somewhere buried deep down in a thread's page 5. Maybe a start would be to have us identify these helpful bits and ask knezzen to tied them up in a kind of FAQ? (with proper crediting)

Because it feels there's already such good answers out there. It's just hard at times to find it. And sometimes you don't even know you're looking for something :-)

I'd be all open to help with that. Basically already doing it, but keeping the bookmarks to myself so far. Somebody else?

[ssp3]

In addition to "Like" button, that several members requested, a "Ignore user" button would be useful.

EDIT. Search function is also somewhat broken - you can only search current topic. To search the whole forum, you have to go to Home page.

[Jubadub]

Search function is also somewhat broken - you can only search current topic. To search the whole forum, you have to go to Home page.

I don't recall it very well, but I think this problem might have been there before migration, too. Nonetheless, that's a good catch.

[Knezzen]

I appreciate the info on what functions are missing or functioning in a different matter compared to before.
This thread is about what to do in the not so distant future and discuss how to gain more users.

I don't think all the like buttons and search functions in the world will drag more users in here.
I have never joined a forum or community based on how well the search function works or what kind of features the forum software has. The discussions and information has always been the selling point for me.

I promise that I will look into the features, but it has only been about 3 weeks since the site moved and I right now other things have a higher prioritization, like the downloads being moved to new hosting.

I'm just one guy. I can't do more than one thing at a time (like any guy)
Have faith in the future and all will be well

And once again, thanks for all the input! It really helps a lot.

[ssp3]

I don't think all the like buttons and search functions in the world will drag more users in here.

No. Never. But, why would they feel the need to come here? All that they need is available on you other site without any extra efforts. Just click, click and run away.

I'm just one guy.

What you're doing is very much appreciated! 

[Knezzen]

All that they need is available on you other site without any extra efforts.

In terms of downloads yes, but nothing comes near Mac OS 9 Lives in terms of information regarding Mac OS 9 mods (running on unsupported machines etc) and music/DAW stuff. There's downloads available everywhere, be it the garden, Hotline, Torrents etc so I don't think downloads is the things that will draw people here by the masses. Not in 2024. Times have changed.

What you're doing is very much appreciated! 

Thank you very much! I'm trying my best to do something great here

[smilesdavis]

I wish I had a dime for every time I've been lectured about the Nyquist theorem by someone who "learned it" from their buddy in a bar!

I’ve had the best discussion with a level software designers in

A bar

Kids: drink responsibly or you might end up with thousands worth  of NFR ilok licenes and a headache the next day

[smilesdavis]

In the long run we need to 🏭 a hype

Like in audio: hardware is dead. Using g4s as outboard is the new thing. Here on os9l you get the 📦.

[Knezzen]

In the long run we need to 🏭 a hype

Like in audio: hardware is dead. Using g4s as outboard is the new thing. Here on os9l you get the 📦.

Yes, exactly!

[Jubadub]

Remember the 2000's Mac websites with daily news and how-to tutorials? I'd really love to see a website that is a good bookmark to keep and visit after you've booted up your OS 9 machine. A page you can link to whenever somebody asks: "What is Mac OS 9 and why should one use it?".

I like this. I already like what DieHard wrote in the front page, but pointing out even further OS 9 strengths, and OS 9 tutorials or "Power Tips" (a wordplay on "PowerPC"/POWER CPU ISA), cannot be bad IMO.

For example, RAM DISKS to remove any disk I/O access. It is far faster than SSDs. A tutorial would be simple ("disable Virtual Memory" and "use built-in RAM Disk system or 3rd party solution"), and this is something you CANNOT do in, say, OS X, because there's no option that I know of to disable VM and, even if there is some hidden way, I doubt it would be stable. (Windows is similar, but you can disable it, although it is a bit convoluted, and the OS screams at you if you try to do this, as do other people online, but it worked just fine for me. Using a RAM disk though necessarily requires a 3rd party solution, and there's the general Windows headache of assigning drive letters etc., but none of that PITA BS applies to OS 9.)

Another OS 9 pitch: Snappy fast, zero bloat, no BS. Maybe could even call it the anti-bullshit OS. It IS a generally-accurate statement. Although admittedly it can be antiquated having to manually allocate memory for programs that don't do it automatically, in particular if your monitor is much bigger than what devs expected in the '90s. (Incidentally, apparently MachTen is one of those few programs that will keep dynamically adjusting it for you?)

System backups? Copy+paste your system folder. THE END. Now try doing that with Windows and others, then see how it goes. Even OS X will require more caution than this AFAIK.

Crazy-good compatibility? Run software from 1984 (even 1983 if you include some special software) to 2005-ish or, if you look at the "Mac OS renaissance" today, things like a ChatGPT client and other new software written just now in 2024? So 1984-2024+ software portfolio? We can literally tell people "JOIN THE RENAISSANCE".

Software ranging from System 1 to Mac OS 9.2.2? And it is not visually broken like even OS X 10.3 Panther / 10.4 Tiger are when running them? And that too assuming it CAN be run in ANY OS X version at all? Where is Diablo 1 and Escape Velocity running on even OS X 10.2 Jaguar, which had better so-called "Classic" than 10.3 and 10.4?

Miss UNIX and other POSIX? Try Power MachTen. Need GPU acceleration on it? No worries, Power MachTen ships with the Conix OpenGL add-on, for which we have a registration code in the Garden. Still not good enough? Try MacRelix. ToolDaemon. Even MPW. Shoving a tiny NetBSD install or the like on VirtualPC is also always an option.

What else? Cohesive, coherent, visually-illustrative, modular OS like no other? Not backdoored into oblivion like Windows, GNU/Linux and OS X? Cooperative multitasking = less wasted CPU cycles for when you want to run one specific program (due to no preemptive overhead, as computing is not magic nor miraculous), and/or a set of programs coded to work cooperatively = faster OS than all those that don't adopt this multitasking model? Preemptively-multitasking "Pink" API still available since OS 8.6 for anyone wanting to make such programs? Respectable memory protection since OS 9.1? Compatible with really damn good hardware that holds up well even today with the likes of a dual 2.0GHz G4? The list goes on-- each one of these points can be picked up and expanded upon. Any volunteers? I might volunteer for one or two of these... *ahem*

Does any of this help for ideas?

[DieHard]

In addition to "Like" button, that several members requested, a "Ignore user" button would be useful.

When I read stuff like this I am glad I passed the torch.  We all all adults here, we are all here (in theory) because of "like minds" or at least a common interest in Mac OS 9.  I always felt this alone commands respect to our fellow members. 

An "Ignore" user is just plain divisive and can't an adult do this on their own by simply making a choice ?  Politics, egos, and self-righteous bullshit should be the last thing injected into a forum that was created to "help" those that needed guidance in regards to getting their OS 9 machine up and running. 

Did I always agree with a post... no... did people always agree with me... no; the reason the early days of the forum with Nova are invaluable (even though there were countless arguments) is that there was a goal of making things work; we did not always agree on the direction, but it was a fact-finding mission.  Chris tracked down the creator of the ASR and Mactron and I implemented the testing bed.  This turned out to be the best tool in cloning and creating disk images with copy protection.  We were breaking the barriers in BOTH the software and hardware arenas (imic ROM) even though we had very different personalities that often clashed.  The point I am trying to make is that... respecting another member who is also trying to guide a user on the right path, even though you have a different approach to the solution, is paramount. So my last 2 cents is... if you need an "ignore member" button, then you really are not interested in the worth of others or their opinions... surely we can ALL learn from another.

[GaryN]

In addition to "Like" button, that several members requested, a "Ignore user" button would be useful.

You know what they say … "Be careful what you wish for"

[ssp3]

if you need an "ignore member" button, then you really are not interested in the worth of others or their opinions... surely we can ALL learn from another.

I the so called "others" are rude crybullies or someone posting nonsense, then no, I am not interested.  Ignore button cleans up threads nicely and makes reading more enjoyable.

If using a faul language is accepted norm here, then fine, from now on I will remove my politeness hat.

[aBc]

Bears re-posting?
     Abridged.
(Underlining mine.)

When I read stuff like this I am glad I passed the torch.  We are all adults here, we are all here (in theory) because of "like minds" or at least a common interest in Mac OS 9.  I always felt this alone commands respect to our fellow members. 

An "Ignore" user is just plain divisive and can't an adult do this on their own by simply making a choice?  Politics, egos, and self-righteous bullshit should be the last thing injected into a forum that was created to "help" those that needed guidance in regards to getting their OS 9 machine up and running. 

The point I am trying to make is that... respecting another member who is also trying to guide a user on the right path, even though you have a different approach to the solution, is paramount. So my last 2 cents is... if you need an "ignore member" button, then you really are not interested in the worth of others or their opinions... surely we can ALL learn from another.

Quite simply because I could not have said all of this better!