Author Topic: OS 9 does not start.  (Read 2096 times)

Offline ohtakajacky2

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OS 9 does not start.
« on: December 04, 2023, 06:16:11 AM »
Mac OS 9 no longer starts. If you press the power button, a "?" mark will appear and you will not be able to proceed from there. I booted from the installation CD by pressing "C" on the keyboard. It only worked once, but that time I did nothing and restarted. Now it won't boot from the installation CD either. somebody help!

Offline Mat

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2023, 11:36:27 PM »
? mark menas no OS found that can be booted. As you lost the boot capabilities of your CD later as well, I would suspect the internal IDE (?) bus. First check all the internal cables to your HD and CD drive.

Offline gert79

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2023, 07:52:07 AM »
I will chime in here with my issues.

Whenever i restart the machine by the menu bar or the reset button i get the ? and it doesnt boot.

After that i pull the power plug and re-attach and turn it on, it boots normal.

Sometimes mouse and keyboard doesnt work after a reboot so i pull the plug again and it boots and works normal again.

I already reset parameters by pushing the red button on the motherboard, as described in apple manual, which did not help.
The onboard battery is new.

Offline ssp3

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2023, 08:03:54 AM »
How about pointing to a valid boot volume in 'Startup Disk' CP? Does that help?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2023, 09:08:25 AM by ssp3 »
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Offline GaryN

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2023, 02:03:02 PM »
I'll bet BOTH of you have SATA–IDE SSD adapters that are effing up.

Offline gert79

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2023, 12:37:52 AM »
Indeed i am using a SATA-IDE adapter with a SSD.

So this adapter cannot handle the reset.

Is there anything i can do to fix it?

Offline gert79

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2023, 03:51:54 AM »
I will take out the SATA adapter and compare with findings here on the forum, also check hdd jumpers

Offline gert79

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2023, 10:23:37 AM »
ok my adapter looks similar to the RXD-629A7-7 mentioned in other threads but has different writings and chip on it, the component layout is the same.

i noticed the parallel cable was plugged in reverse, blue at hdd black at mainboard, i reversed it but no change.

also adding a master jumper did not help.

Offline aBc

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2023, 11:48:36 AM »
Okay…

2002 Quicksilver with an 820-1342-B motherboard?
[NOT a 820-1276-A motherboard.]

Just tested here with a 933 GHz QS and “B” mobo.

Had it set up as Cable Select with a Western Digital 3.5”
80 GB HDD on bottom and a Crucial 500 GB SSD on top
(with a StarTech adapter also set to Cable Select.) OK.

Changed Western Digital jumper to “Master w/ Slave Present
and the Crucial SSD attached to an RXD-629A7-7
its’ jumper set to “Slave”. NO boot problems.


Check all actual available jumper settings for your “bottom”
drive and set accordingly
. (This Western Digital also offers
“Single or Master” setting… which would be wrong.)

Problems persist? Provide pic of that “similar to” adapter.

What gets me is that you said it will boot with no problem
if you remove the power cable between boots. This could
be a possible symptom of another un-related problem.

IF you follow the blue text section above and it still will not
boot… try booting again from a loaded installer CD to see
if either HD or SSD will appear as a selectable boot disc -
and if so, reboot after that selection.

Also, I know that you have reset PRAM.
Have you pressed the PMU?



And then there’s always the Apple Hardware Test 1.2.6



http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,818.0.html (Toast CD Image)
https://archive.org/details/applehardwaretestpowermacg4sw126_6913623a   (.iso)

Offline ssp3

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2023, 11:56:06 AM »
Does it have working battery?
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Offline aBc

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Offline gert79

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2023, 11:26:59 AM »
@aBc

I confirm it is a QS version B motherboard, i am running MacOS 9.2.2 with 9.2.1 boot rom as i have read that lower version number boot roms should work better for this machine and OS.

I am running only one 128GB SSD with defined boot partition in startup disk, the drive is jumper free, runs on my cheapo SATA adapter, see attachments below.
Label on the chip is
VPD chips
VCB0S003-0000

I reset PMU per given instructions and also reset PRAM by alt cmd P R keycombo at startup.

No matter how i set the jumper on the adapter (master, slave, without) it will give questionmark on reset, but as described it will boot after a powercycle.

i left the OS9 install CD in the drive and it showed questionmark first but then booted into OS9 from cd and also showed my SDD on the desktop, i was not able to enter any kind of boot select menu on startup.

thank you for posting the hardware test cd, this will be interesting.


Offline gert79

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2023, 11:31:20 AM »
i really have issues attaching the photos here so i uploaded them: https://ufile.io/f/1xz6t

Offline aBc

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Re: OS 9 NO start.
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2023, 12:37:16 PM »
Really hate to say it but it could be a PSU problem as the machine will boot once you disconnect the power and then plug it back in. But we won’t dwell here on that possibility.

Instead, it may in fact be your adapter. I have had similar behavior from an MCA004 V1.3 in a Mac mini but some have attributed that problem to an older made version of that specific adapter. Upon attempted boot with the MCA004, no SSD or any of its’ partitions would mount or appear. I could then boot from an installer disc and then choose a partition from the SSD (which did appear as a choice) to boot from and it would then reboot to that partition / SSD. BIG FUN.

If you intend to only have one SSD installed in your Quicksilver… the good ol’ Bribge adapters work very well and I know where you can source them inexpensively (especially if you are in the U.S). PM me.

You might consider this low-cost option to first test the overall performance of your QS (and to possibly rule out the PSU problem). Then if all goes well and you intend to use more than one SSD or an SSD + HDD combination afterwards… then actual RXD-629A7-7 or StarTech adapters might be your best choice.

Here’s an interesting testimony about a VPD SATA adapter:
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=85385

*And they do mention some PSU concerns as well. (Sadly)

Offline ssp3

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2023, 12:38:42 PM »
OK, I see three possible scenarios here.

1. You are using 'tall' as opposed to 'slim' adapter. A few years back (S)ATAman reported that 'tall' adapters were of bad design and produced data transfer errors. In his opinion, slim ones were ok. (Search forum for his old posts).

2. Since you apparently have problems at start-up, it might be that some of the components on your particular adapter have wrong values or something like that. Read - bad design. I've described the implementation of JM20330 and its timing requrements in this thread:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5955.msg52009.html#msg52009

The VPD chip on your adapter is probably a variation of JM20330, just like the 'DOF' chip mentioned here:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,6808.msg52194.html#msg52194

3. The SSD drive itself. I remember having problems with some SSDs in my G4 DA:
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5447.msg40111.html#msg40111


My suggestion - try different SSD drive and try different adapter.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Offline gert79

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2023, 12:19:37 AM »
yesterday i ran the hardware test and interestingly it showed an error in one of the rams, i removed it but the problem is still present.

i might once open the psu and look for blown caps.

i consider buying something proper, is this the right kind of startech adapter?
https://www.startech.com/en-eu/hdd/ide2sat2


Offline aBc

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Re: QS OS 9 NO Start
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2023, 04:34:39 AM »
Yes the StarTech adapters have the best all ‘round reputation and
generally, they are the most expensive. Regardless of anyone’s bias,
the JM20330-based adapters (including what might be a variant,
the DOF chip) are well known, lower cost, high value alternatives.
And it all really depends more on the adapters’ manufacturer,
rather than if the adapter is tall or slim - or red or green in color.

(Utterly preposterous and biased drivel.)

Hopefully your PSU’s internals will be fine upon inspection.
If not and you do find some swollen, domed or leaking caps,
here’s another link dealing with some aspects of that:
Gorf's thread: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,5341.msg39039.html#msg39039

At least AHT found bad RAM. ;) Keep at it.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2023, 04:46:26 AM by aBc »

Offline IIO

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2023, 05:30:39 PM »
if you are willing to spend 20 bucks instead of 3, get something which comes with a 3.5" case already. (the one diehard uses, i cannot find the link)
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Offline peeperpc

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2023, 03:45:42 AM »
Mac OS 9 no longer starts. If you press the power button, a "?" mark will appear and you will not be able to proceed from there. I booted from the installation CD by pressing "C" on the keyboard. It only worked once, but that time I did nothing and restarted. Now it won't boot from the installation CD either. somebody help!

If OS 9 is the only OS on the Mac, I would try changing the drive.

When an internal drive is defective but not completely dead is still connected, you will not be able to start from the Optical Drive when they're on the same IDE bus. But if they're on separate buses, I'm not sure what will happen.

But if the Mac has OS 9 and OS X and now it only boots OS X, then it's another story.

Offline gert79

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Re: OS 9 does not start.
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2023, 09:28:46 AM »
During the holidays i had some more time to play with this.

So i totally removed SSD and the SATA adapter and installed OS9 to a spare ancient PATA HDD (3.7 GB, IBM) i had lying around, i jumpered it as master and plugged it to the very end of the hdd flat cable.

To my surprise i have exactly the same behaviour with the PATA drive than with the SATA/SSD - machine wont restart on a "warm" reset from system but restarts without an issue if power cycled off on.

One interesting behaviour i noticed, when i am running the Apple Hardware Test cd and push reset from there the drive is recognized and it boots, in all other warm start cases not.

By now i also reset NVRAM via open firmware and did the PRAM zap once again.

A funny, maybe related issue - i get a lot of weird jitter on the highest graphic resolution, but it looks fine on the next lower one, will look to post a video.

So it seems inavoidable that i will have to take PSU apart and replace capacitors? I have skills and tools to do that, i just thought this machine would be in a better state. Bought it for 250 euro from a collector, thinking it will be top notch state for that price.