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darthnVader

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Noob building DAW
« on: March 01, 2023, 11:48:24 AM »

Hey guys help me out, my roomy has a bunch of music equipment and I want to help him setup an OS 9 DAW, but I know nothing of this stuff.

The main equipment he has is a Roland VS-1680 and a Yamaha YPG-535 and some other mixing boards we haven't unpacked yet along with 10's of high end guitars.

Looking to set him up with OS 9 on a dual 867Mhz MDD just to get his feet wet in some of the simpler software before we move hm to the latter stuff that has way too many options to learn for a noob if that makes sense to you guys?
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GaryN

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2023, 02:48:50 PM »

So, he’s a guitar player with lots of money, guitars, a big Roland workstation he may (or may not) know how to use at all and “tons” of other stuff?

You’re asking a huge question here, you know. It’s really:
“Although I don’t really know anything about this stuff, how should I point this guy toward a (new to him) home recording situation with a bunch of equipment I haven’t identified yet using his unknown aptitude for it?”

AND (I’m guessing)
“I have an old MDD so why not start with that, buy the additional necessary interface(s) and other hardware to try to mate it to the much newer stuff he already has?”

AND
“Thereby force him to learn to operate the “obsolete” Mac OS 9 on vintage software and get comfortable enough on that to be creative before having him change up all of it entirely to move to newer hardware, operating system, workflow etc and learn all of that all over again.”

Sounds kinda nuts when I put it that way, huh?

Seriously… I know everybody has their own reasons for hanging on to OS 9 world - personally, I started there, got very efficient and comfortable with the workflow and I was never forced to deal with PoorTools and it works well for me - BUT I doubt I would advise anyone to start out there now - especially a guitar player (well, drummers even more so LOL) unless they have a high functioning brain and cannot afford much of anything at all so that all of the abandonware can make it all happen for them at very little cost. That does NOT seem to be the case here with what little info you’ve provided. Look… I know you know it takes a certain mentality to deal with all of the ins and outs and kinks and tangles of this old Macworld universe with it’s lack of support, unobtanium parts etc. Making someone learn all of that while simultaneously learning to use everything else and develop a comfortable work process at the same time just may be a perfect recipe for failure.

I’m a musician. I know lots of other musicians. In my too many years of experience, I have found that there is NO correlation between musical talent / aptitude and engineering proclivity. (damn, I just love to get to use words like that). Despite what Roland, Tascam, Avid and everyone else would have the world believe, it’s NOT just a piece of cake to wander into Guitar Center, walk out with some wiz-bang gizmos and software and become a YouTube star next week. It makes little sense to handicap ones progress and chances of success by starting in the unsupported past thereby making things more complicated and difficult that they need to be.

If you actually were an OS 9 DAW expert yourself and could guide him through the bumps and potholes of self-recording and using OS 9 today, interfacing it with all that he has and could save him from having to learn it all the hard way, it might be a different, workable situation, but based on what you’ve said so far, I strongly suggest you first find out what else hes has that's not unpacked yet, try to determine (as well as possible) if he's a guitarist, an engineer/producer both or neither and most importantly, how he expects to use it all and what he hopes and expects to get out of it all. Far more people fail at this than succeed and it's often because they simply start out incorrectly with unrealistic expectations that lead to early frustration with the process.
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ssp3

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2023, 03:26:55 PM »

Hear, hear!

Another, quite often overlooked aspect, is computer noise. We're dealing with music, right? For hours.
As much as I love OS9 (and I loved OS7 even more), I'm not sure I can tolerate even single fan noise in G4 DA PSU these days. Even after switching to SSD system drives.
Unless you have a complete ProTools rig lying around, I'd say, get your friend a used Intel MacBook Pro or Mac Mini ($100 or so), used Firewire interface that fits his budget and be done with it. He will appreciate the silence. As to the software - there are tons of it around. Let him start with Garage Band, if he's noob.

I'm sorry, folks, for saying this on the OS9 forum.  :)
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DieHard

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2023, 04:22:43 PM »

If he actually did tracks with the Roland VS-1680, he should be able to export the tracks via burning CDs; he can then use any DAW, such as Cubase VST 5 and import all the audio, he can mix with effects and other plugins all "in the box"

He can also, get a cheap interface and add more audio tracks and/or MIDI (Virtual instrument tracks); the "Instant DAW" has all effects and Virtual instruments pre installed and ready to go...

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2716.0.html

if for some reason it's "way too complex" he can still imports his audio and go for the very easy "CuBasis" found here

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,845.0.html

UPDATE: I just read what Gary said... and I have to agree...

If he is really just starting, garage band is an excellent choice, hell it doesn't even have a complex mixer to deal with, I still recommend a "Mac Pro" 5,1 (get a 6 core 4,1 and upgrade firmware to 5,1) why... a Mac Pro

1. you can run almost every era of Mac OS 10.8 thru 10.13 cheaply and higher 10.14, 10.15 if you can afford a metal graphics card
2. Optical Drive (import the Roland tracks)
3. get it for about $200
4. Add cheap mechanical drives, 2.5" SSDs, RAID large SATA drives for Backup, use NVMe SSDs on $25 cards
5. Add tons of cheap RAM
6. Go with USB, Firewire, or even thunderbolt interfaces (with not so cheap) pCIe cards
7. Dual Ethernet
8. SO quiet you won't know it's on
9. Dual monitor support
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 04:39:11 PM by DieHard »
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darthnVader

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2023, 04:48:27 PM »

So, he’s a guitar player with lots of money, guitars, a big Roland workstation he may (or may not) know how to use at all and “tons” of other stuff?

You’re asking a huge question here, you know. It’s really:
“Although I don’t really know anything about this stuff, how should I point this guy toward a (new to him) home recording situation with a bunch of equipment I haven’t identified yet using his unknown aptitude for it?”

AND (I’m guessing)
“I have an old MDD so why not start with that, buy the additional necessary interface(s) and other hardware to try to mate it to the much newer stuff he already has?”

AND
“Thereby force him to learn to operate the “obsolete” Mac OS 9 on vintage software and get comfortable enough on that to be creative before having him change up all of it entirely to move to newer hardware, operating system, workflow etc and learn all of that all over again.”

Sounds kinda nuts when I put it that way, huh?

Seriously… I know everybody has their own reasons for hanging on to OS 9 world - personally, I started there, got very efficient and comfortable with the workflow and I was never forced to deal with PoorTools and it works well for me - BUT I doubt I would advise anyone to start out there now - especially a guitar player (well, drummers even more so LOL) unless they have a high functioning brain and cannot afford much of anything at all so that all of the abandonware can make it all happen for them at very little cost. That does NOT seem to be the case here with what little info you’ve provided. Look… I know you know it takes a certain mentality to deal with all of the ins and outs and kinks and tangles of this old Macworld universe with it’s lack of support, unobtanium parts etc. Making someone learn all of that while simultaneously learning to use everything else and develop a comfortable work process at the same time just may be a perfect recipe for failure.

I’m a musician. I know lots of other musicians. In my too many years of experience, I have found that there is NO correlation between musical talent / aptitude and engineering proclivity. (damn, I just love to get to use words like that). Despite what Roland, Tascam, Avid and everyone else would have the world believe, it’s NOT just a piece of cake to wander into Guitar Center, walk out with some wiz-bang gizmos and software and become a YouTube star next week. It makes little sense to handicap ones progress and chances of success by starting in the unsupported past thereby making things more complicated and difficult that they need to be.

If you actually were an OS 9 DAW expert yourself and could guide him through the bumps and potholes of self-recording and using OS 9 today, interfacing it with all that he has and could save him from having to learn it all the hard way, it might be a different, workable situation, but based on what you’ve said so far, I strongly suggest you first find out what else hes has that's not unpacked yet, try to determine (as well as possible) if he's a guitarist, an engineer/producer both or neither and most importantly, how he expects to use it all and what he hopes and expects to get out of it all. Far more people fail at this than succeed and it's often because they simply start out incorrectly with unrealistic expectations that lead to early frustration with the process.

If you don't want to be helpful, just don't reply.

He has lots of money in the equipment and instruments he has and I have a MDD that will run OS very well. THIS IS AN OS 9 FORUM and I've done lots here to help people out, but if you don't want to help then just move along.

I here what you say about newer Mac's and software but this is the stuff we have and I know OS 9 is perfectly fine to use as a DAW, people still use it everyday.

He knows how to use his equipment and had a PC setup, but the PC meet some beer one night and that's gone and I don't help people with PC's other than to tell them to get a Mac if they want my help.

We've got a few Core2 Duo iMac's to work with later and hoping we can get him a new MacBook Pro soon as he learns some basics.

But I'm learning too, and I've never had an issue teaching people about what I know here on these forums so I don't really like the way you just took attitude with me for asking some basic questions.

 :o
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darthnVader

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2023, 05:02:16 PM »

If he actually did tracks with the Roland VS-1680, he should be able to export the tracks via burning CDs; he can then use any DAW, such as Cubase VST 5 and import all the audio, he can mix with effects and other plugins all "in the box"

He can also, get a cheap interface and add more audio tracks and/or MIDI (Virtual instrument tracks); the "Instant DAW" has all effects and Virtual instruments pre installed and ready to go...

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2716.0.html

if for some reason it's "way too complex" he can still imports his audio and go for the very easy "CuBasis" found here

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,845.0.html

UPDATE: I just read what Gary said... and I have to agree...

If he is really just starting, garage band is an excellent choice, hell it doesn't even have a complex mixer to deal with, I still recommend a "Mac Pro" 5,1 (get a 6 core 4,1 and upgrade firmware to 5,1) why... a Mac Pro

1. you can run almost every era of Mac OS 10.8 thru 10.13 cheaply and higher 10.14, 10.15 if you can afford a metal graphics card
2. Optical Drive (import the Roland tracks)
3. get it for about $200
4. Add cheap mechanical drives, 2.5" SSDs, RAID large SATA drives for Backup, use NVMe SSDs on $25 cards
5. Add tons of cheap RAM
6. Go with USB, Firewire, or even thunderbolt interfaces (with not so cheap) pCIe cards
7. Dual Ethernet
8. SO quiet you won't know it's on
9. Dual monitor support

See, I know nothing about this stuff other than some basics, I mean I know what a track is.....

The Roland has a SCSI port and I think it was made to handle SCSI ZIP, do you think it could do SCSI CDR? I have such things a SCSI 100MB ZIP anyway, but not the cables and external SCSI case.

I know how to use SCSI and that stuff, I was kind of hoping it could interface with the Mac somehow but I don't really see any ports for that other than the SCSI.

So that's why and what I'm asking, what is the best setup for this Mixing board with a MDD?

I'll have to ask him how he was doing thing with a PC to get a better understanding so I can ask better questions.

I also have SCSI cards that work with the MDD.

SCSI external cases are hard to find these days but I don't know anyway to get the stuff off the Roland and onto/into the Mac.


Is there another way?

I know the Keyboard has USB and a bunch of other ports.

I also still have the M-Audio FW Audiophile you gifted me, so maybe we need to just leap to Tiger as this was the Audiophile we never could get to work with OS 9, and I did try EVERYTHING to fix that issue with no luck.
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IIO

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2023, 09:07:31 PM »

I'm sorry, folks, for saying this on the OS9 forum.  :)

yeah, but you are right. a mac mini 1.25 with SSD and firewire interface is all he needs for now.

the requirement for dual processing, multiple monitors and whatever PCI extension cards does not exist for a beginner (or a for a guitarist), and when it comes later, he would be better off with a mac pro 2012.

the only thing a mini cant "do" is pro tools.

in DAWs other than protools he has to understand the difference between a track and a channel, whereas protools works exactly like a tape recorder, but this is not a problem.
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smilesdavis

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2023, 09:40:45 PM »

get a emagic emi/a/26m or 62m or get both

thats what i did for my silent update minis
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GaryN

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2023, 11:20:00 PM »

If you don't want to be helpful, just don't reply.

He has lots of money in the equipment and instruments he has and I have a MDD that will run OS very well. THIS IS AN OS 9 FORUM and I've done lots here to help people out, but if you don't want to help then just move along.

I here what you say about newer Mac's and software but this is the stuff we have and I know OS 9 is perfectly fine to use as a DAW, people still use it everyday.

He knows how to use his equipment and had a PC setup, but the PC meet some beer one night and that's gone and I don't help people with PC's other than to tell them to get a Mac if they want my help.

We've got a few Core2 Duo iMac's to work with later and hoping we can get him a new MacBook Pro soon as he learns some basics.

But I'm learning too, and I've never had an issue teaching people about what I know here on these forums so I don't really like the way you just took attitude with me for asking some basic questions.

 :o

I'm sorry you have taken offense at my carefully thought out, truly attempting to be helpful reply.
Granted, it's sometimes difficult to be 100% nuanced and carefully magnanimous so as not to offend anyone's ego while also communicating a complex thought in a simple Forum post.  At least without writing an even longer reply that I actually did take the considerable time to write - and I'm generally thought of around here as long-winded as it is.

If you found it totally unhelpful, perhaps you might re-read exactly what you wrote again, consider the information you provided and then re-read my reply and see how I tried to address everything based on what you provided.

If you feel I "took attitude" and offended your ego and / or ability, I'm sorry… certainly NOT my intention. I'll remind you however, that it was you who said "I know nothing of this stuff" and then even repeated later "See, I know nothing about this stuff other than some basics, I mean I know what a track is....."

** You have since added "he knows how to use his equipment" and how to spill beer into a computer. Also, that he's a Windoze guy which is even more reason not to make him learn OS 9 and then OSX as you throw ever-changing generations of hardware into the mix requiring the learning of more and more operating systems, DAW workflows, hardware, interfaces and procedures.

If all you wanted was encouragement and maybe a quick "Just go buy a xyz box, load up the Instant DAW and everything will just fall into place" answer, I apologize for trying to be realistic and address the entire subject rather than telling you to just make sure you get the correct kind of serial cables. Believe me, I know as well or better than anyone how easy it is to get so lost in making the tech work you don't actually produce anything! It's not easy switching hats over and over going from engineer to computer tech to musician to writer and back around again. That's probably the main reason I stay with my OS 9 setup. It took me a long time to get it all "just working" so that I could actually think about the damn music instead of constantly trying to figure out why "X keeps popping an error and Y just doesn't sound right. Maybe yet another plugin?…"

Don't forget it's going to be you that he turns to over and over and over as he tries to get a grip on the process and by your own admission, you're not going to be very helpful to him.
He's your "roomy" and justified or not, it's going to be you that he gets pissed at for steering him wrong and it'll be you having to live in that what is sure to be a really uncomfortable situation.
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darthnVader

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2023, 07:23:05 AM »

If you don't want to be helpful, just don't reply.

He has lots of money in the equipment and instruments he has and I have a MDD that will run OS very well. THIS IS AN OS 9 FORUM and I've done lots here to help people out, but if you don't want to help then just move along.

I here what you say about newer Mac's and software but this is the stuff we have and I know OS 9 is perfectly fine to use as a DAW, people still use it everyday.

He knows how to use his equipment and had a PC setup, but the PC meet some beer one night and that's gone and I don't help people with PC's other than to tell them to get a Mac if they want my help.

We've got a few Core2 Duo iMac's to work with later and hoping we can get him a new MacBook Pro soon as he learns some basics.

But I'm learning too, and I've never had an issue teaching people about what I know here on these forums so I don't really like the way you just took attitude with me for asking some basic questions.

 :o

I'm sorry you have taken offense at my carefully thought out, truly attempting to be helpful reply.
Granted, it's sometimes difficult to be 100% nuanced and carefully magnanimous so as not to offend anyone's ego while also communicating a complex thought in a simple Forum post.  At least without writing an even longer reply that I actually did take the considerable time to write - and I'm generally thought of around here as long-winded as it is.

If you found it totally unhelpful, perhaps you might re-read exactly what you wrote again, consider the information you provided and then re-read my reply and see how I tried to address everything based on what you provided.

If you feel I "took attitude" and offended your ego and / or ability, I'm sorry… certainly NOT my intention. I'll remind you however, that it was you who said "I know nothing of this stuff" and then even repeated later "See, I know nothing about this stuff other than some basics, I mean I know what a track is....."

** You have since added "he knows how to use his equipment" and how to spill beer into a computer. Also, that he's a Windoze guy which is even more reason not to make him learn OS 9 and then OSX as you throw ever-changing generations of hardware into the mix requiring the learning of more and more operating systems, DAW workflows, hardware, interfaces and procedures.

If all you wanted was encouragement and maybe a quick "Just go buy a xyz box, load up the Instant DAW and everything will just fall into place" answer, I apologize for trying to be realistic and address the entire subject rather than telling you to just make sure you get the correct kind of serial cables. Believe me, I know as well or better than anyone how easy it is to get so lost in making the tech work you don't actually produce anything! It's not easy switching hats over and over going from engineer to computer tech to musician to writer and back around again. That's probably the main reason I stay with my OS 9 setup. It took me a long time to get it all "just working" so that I could actually think about the damn music instead of constantly trying to figure out why "X keeps popping an error and Y just doesn't sound right. Maybe yet another plugin?…"

Don't forget it's going to be you that he turns to over and over and over as he tries to get a grip on the process and by your own admission, you're not going to be very helpful to him.
He's your "roomy" and justified or not, it's going to be you that he gets pissed at for steering him wrong and it'll be you having to live in that what is sure to be a really uncomfortable situation.

Anyway.

I guess the Roland was made to be a workstation on it's own and doesn't interface with a computer as I assume in my ignorance that it did.

It did come with a CDR SCSI device that he no longer has to get files and what not CD audio off the Roland, but he said that never quite worked correct for him even when it was new.

He does know how to use the Roland, but I think he's getting a little older and my not fully understand how it was intended to work with a computer.

Or it's maybe I just don't understand it.

He seemed to think that at one point someone had helped him set it up on a PC running CakeWalk and that Cakewalk could control the board from the PC.

Os Gary, DieHard, do you know if this sounds right, I mean it only has a MIDI out that could interface with a PC, but that doesn't really have a control interface does it?

He did at one point mix a few CD's on the Roland and manage to burn them to CD audio, but he said he just used the Roland and his instruments without the aid of a PC at all. Stuff sound good to me, as good as any pro studio mix on retail cds I've bought and owned.

Sadly my roomy Phil is a little older and maybe just misremember a few things, or I'm just not asking the right questions, or my understand of MIDI is just lacking.

He said he'd just reread the manual for the Roland, and I likely I need to read that too so I can ask better questions.

I had. assumed the Roland could be used in a Co-Op mode with a PC but that really isn't the case is it?

It's really more of a standalone device that can interface with MIDI and analog to mix music without any need for a PC, is that correct?
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IIO

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2023, 09:30:12 AM »

maybe it had an editor to remotely control it, and for sure it can do things like sending controllers and have its clock synced to a computer (because the computer is just yet another midi device), or maybe you can even use it as audio or midi interface.

and it is not so unlikely that musicians who own such things do not even know themselves what it is and how it works, and that is not limited to elderly people. :)
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ssp3

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2023, 09:43:47 AM »

Here's discussion about it at some other place:
https://tinyurl.com/mtatavyr

Useful tool for it (PC):
http://www.thegoodlibrary.com/VSWaveExport.php

Syncing to sequencers - see attached. It is probably the same for VS-880 and VS-1680.
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DieHard

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2023, 02:03:11 PM »

Quote
I had. assumed the Roland could be used in a Co-Op mode with a PC but that really isn't the case is it?

It's really more of a standalone device that can interface with MIDI and analog to mix music without any need for a PC, is that correct?

OMG... yes... and NO... we are kinda getting off the beaten path, the "Roland could be used in a Co-Op mode with a PC" is true, but is even complicating things even more, the only advantage of this would be...

Quote
This document will explain different methods of synchronizing the VS-880 with many of the popular software
sequencing programs that are available. Synchronizing the VS-880 with a MIDI sequencer allows you to mix MIDI
instruments with other instruments without actually recording the MIDI instruments on the VS-880. This allows
you to record more non-MIDI tracks (vocals, guitar, etc.) on the VS-880. We will provide step by step instructions
for synchronizing the VS-880 to Cakewalk™, Performer™, Logic™, Vision™, and Cubase™

So this is useful if you are out of audio tracks on the Roland and don't want to record the audio from you MIDI synths or drum machines and eat up audio tracks on the Roland... you simply sync your DAW to the Roland and now it starts and stops your DAW and locks the internal roland song clock and the PC/mac clock together to play in perfect sync.  This is obviously an even more complex setup and a modern computer can handle all the audio/midi tracks with internal and external instruments and no need to learn this ancient stuff.  Remember, the Roland does NOT interface with MIDI as far as triggering sound modules, The "MIDI" was just used as a sync method with the Roland.  It's more common use was to sync to a drum machine (with pre-made song patters) and record the audio in stereo to the Roland perfect sync with the BPM of the Roland Song Tempo... this became your rhythm track.

The Roland is designed as an alternative to a having a mixer, audio interface, and computer.  Quality is quite good and you can make some great projects without learning a DAW and computer OS.  However, fully utilizing all the features of the roland is not as easy as it sounds; things like EQ, punch-in, etc can be hard on the little screen.  Also, you can actually create more tracks (or takes) of a vocal or guitar on the Roland then the stated 16 tracks, you make alternates and mark is as a "Virtual" track, meaning you can pick and choose which ones to mix when completing the project. 

Many computer-phobic musicians loved these machines back in the day and they were NOT cheap.  They were definitely superior to the many versions of the cheaper Tascam Porta-Studio series that were very popular.

If his SCSI CD drive works, the individual tracks can be exported as wave files and burt to a CD-R and then imported into any DAW via the computers CD drive.  Been a few years, but I did this many times myself for various clients and I did it all thru the menu of the Roland, no computer needed for the exporting.

Lastly, if you are recording and tracking a full band on the road then the Roland is still a great machine, but for a Guitarist/songwriter GarageBand is obviously invaluable when adding drums to your song, the whole "make external drum patterns, glue them together, and then record them" gets pretty annoying, I mean Gary and I will never get back the hours we wasted programming drums back in the day :(
« Last Edit: March 02, 2023, 04:57:28 PM by DieHard »
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GaryN

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2023, 04:09:53 PM »

FAQ, facts and potential potholes re: the VS-1680

As suspected, it was never designed to and does not interface with a computer in any way

Rather, it was built to be a standalone workstation
    * The problem with that is (very common back in the day) the complexity and incomprehensible operating system and workflow that results from cramming lots of stuff into a small package at a targeted retail price
    ** The "squint at me for hours 'till you go blind" ancient LCD screen is an example of this

The only practical way to move anything either from or to it is via the SCSI port
    * This is likely to be a BIG problem since you say he no longer has the Roland CDR drive unless:
    ** You can find another working one in the wild (possible - you can now buy an entire VS on fleabay for $100-$150) - probably the only way since the manual (yup…I read it) says "You can connect a CD-R drive which is designated by Roland" to the SCSI…

It does have extensive MIDI implementation
    * It sends and receives sync to and from a sequencer and such
    ** With a good MIDI controller and time & patience to map the commands in the controller, you can get external control of almost everything - certainly enough to be helpful although such a controller ain't cheap
    *** There doesn't appear to be a Roland approved computer app of any kind for this function and while you could record MIDI control commands into a sequencer to get an automated mixdown of sorts, the VS doesn't appear to be capable of transmitting them itself in realtime - so that good outboard MIDI controller is mandatory.

You cannot directly mixdown to CD-R… AND:
    * Any audio tracks you DO export to CD will be in proprietary Roland RDAC format (because, why not…right?) and must be converted to standard WAVE files with the Windoze-only "VSWaveExport" app
    ** The only other digital mixdown is over the coaxial or S/PDIF connectors to DAT (ehhh) or to your computer via a decent sound card

CONCLUSION

I think the VS1680 and its brethren have officially reached EOL. It's a textbook example of obsolete equipment with almost no useful purpose going forward. You can now load even a halfway decent DAW app into a laptop, add a basic audio + MIDI interface and have more than twice the capabilities of the VS with fewer than half of the issues and get current support too.
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darthnVader

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2023, 04:39:39 PM »

So I'm a little confused still, sorry I'm a noob!

The VS-1680 can sync via SPIDF Optical to Logic Pro 8 for the Mac and that will allow some added functionality?

Maybe file transfer? or even just 2 track digital import into Logic Pro?

I think the VS-1680 can do everything Phil really wants to do as a stand a lone workstation he just really doesn't like the screen on the Roland or the interface controls for the menu system.

He seems to think Cakewalk will allow him a virtual interface on the PC's screen.

Anyone know if that is true or false?
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DieHard

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2023, 05:08:04 PM »

Think we are getting knee deep in the weeds...

1) If he has NO old projects that he wants to transfer, Just use the free Cakewalk (Bandlab) on a modern Windows PC and put the roland in the closet

2) If he has precious stuff that is on the VS Hard drive, then get a method to transfer the audio, THEN put the Roland in the closet

Gary is right, perhaps only the VS-2480 exports to .WAV, it's been a long time since I used these machines...

VS-2480CD

Quote
Exporting:

    Insert a blank CD-R or CD-RW into the CD or DVD drive.
    Press the CD-RW MASTERING button. Press F5 (TrkExp) for "Track Export". The TRACK EXPORT "Select Track" screen is displayed listing the tracks in the current song. The boxes to the left of the track represent recorded material.
    Use the TIME/VALUE dial to highlight the desired track.
    Press F4 (MARK) to select the track.
    Once tracks are selected, press F5 (NEXT) to go to the TRACK EXPORT "CD burning" screen. All previously marked tracks should be listed under SOURCE in the "Track" box.
    CURSOR to the "Verify" box and switch it to "On".
    CURSOR down to "CD Speed" and then use the TIME/VALUE dial to select "MAX".
    Press F5 (OK) to begin exporting the tracks as .WAV files to CD.
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ssp3

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2023, 06:36:12 PM »

On the other hand, let him use his VS-1680 as it is. If an artist insists on using some specific piece of hardware, even if all others think that it's outdated, who are we, techies, arguing with? If it helps him to generate creative output, so be it.
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smilesdavis

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2023, 08:47:44 PM »

Hard disk recorders were a budget alternative to record 16 tracks in 1996 compared to a full pro tools iii system and everyone of them including ptiii are EOL.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/roland-vs1680

If it hasnt saved you money to record a full band by now
Save yourself the headache and abandon it

That being said, i just got my 8100 recapped and its ready for some nubus ptiii action 🤣
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GaryN

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2023, 09:32:08 PM »

So I'm a little confused still, sorry I'm a noob!
So what? That's what Forums are for.

The VS-1680 can sync via SPIDF Optical to Logic Pro 8 for the Mac and that will allow some added functionality?
NO. S/PDIF carries digital audio only. No data - sync or otherwise.

Maybe file transfer? or even just 2 track digital import into Logic Pro?
Again, NO… and no "importing" either. The only thing you can do with it is play (realtime, not data transfer) stereo audio out into whatever - which could be an amp with a digital ADC for playback or even a computer (with an audio interface) running Logic.

I think the VS-1680 can do everything Phil really wants to do as a stand a lone workstation
The operative word here is "standalone".

He seems to think Cakewalk will allow him a virtual interface on the PC's screen.
Anyone know if that is true or false?
That is absolutely false. Neither Cakewalk or any other app will do that.

* Clarification: In my last reply I said "while you could record MIDI control commands into a sequencer to get an automated mixdown of sorts, the VS doesn't appear to be capable of transmitting them itself in realtime - so that good outboard MIDI controller is mandatory.

What I mean is: Although the VS will transmit control changes over MIDI as you make them, because of the layers-deep menu system for accessing EQ, effects and such, it's impossible to send many changes in real time other than simple fader changes, so lost of stuff becomes a game of "get the VS to spit the change then move it in the sequencer to the place where it's needed" which is almost as odd as it sounds as I'm typing it.

Once again, I can't say this too firmly:

A decent computer running Logic or any other contemporary DAW will do everything the VS can and do it much better without the hassle that comes with operating the VS.

One last time for luck:

A decent computer running Logic or any other contemporary DAW will do everything the VS can and do it much better without the hassle that comes with operating the VS.
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IIO

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Re: Noob building DAW
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2023, 11:50:00 PM »


NO. S/PDIF carries digital audio only. No data - sync or otherwise.


digital audio is a form of "sync", too, as soon as it supports certain types of drivers.
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