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[sos_mac]

Some really powerful AGP cards for sale on ebay right now....for really powerful prices:

Geforce 4600 Ti AGP - the best OS9 card you can buy, for $599 USD:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/323242155148?hash=item4b42bbdc8c:g:7HUAAOSwwARgl9wG

And a couple of 9800 Pro's - the more expensive of which could be yours for a cool $1699 USD. Perfect AGP card for OSX, and I presume would work OK for 2D in OS9:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255662162342?hash=item3b86a701a6:g:QugAAOSwDgFi7I~X

Cashed up? Won the lottery? Got a tax rebate burning a hole in your wallet? Upgrade your AGP vid card today!

ps not a buyer or seller or in any way with an interest in these, other than noting the incredibly high prices these are now going for.

EDIT: not a bot - here is my introductory post http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1991.msg48150.html#msg48150

[tunedbytad]

Bot???

[IIO]

i sometimes wonder if this kind of clowns actually ever sell anything.

he wants 600 bucks for a geforce, 280 for a keyboard, 350 for a floppy drive and 30 for a mac mini power cable.

30 euro is what you usually pay for a complete G4 or core2duo mini package including everything, and i´d say anyone who pays more than 20 bucks for a keyboard - or mabye 35 if it is new - must have even more mental health problems than such sellers do.

if i had 600 bucks left to upgrade to a ti, i would rather pay a forum member to solder me one!
 
 
i recently saw an offer for a porsche cayman, 21 years old, no extras, for 35,000 euro, right beside another ad for exactly the same type of car, which was offered for a more realistic 4800.

i consider such offers an attempted fraud.

[IIO]

hilarious.



make me such an offer on a flea market and you will meet either my fist or two friendly police officers.

[sos_mac]

Bot???

Me? No. I'm not a bot - it just so happened to be my first post, having picked up a MDD G4 (1Ghz) a couple of weeks ago, with the sole purpose of having an OS9-bootable machine.

Since the 9000 Pro the machine came with has bad graphics artefacts, I've been desperately searching ebay for a card capable of 3D acceleration in OS9, and came across the cards above (and these forums!). I've been fortunate to pick up an 8500 in the meantime for a *much* lower price than the cards above, thankfully.

Intro post: http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1991.msg48150.html#msg48150

 

[alphaTECH]

i sometimes wonder if this kind of clowns actually ever sell anything.

he wants 600 bucks for a geforce, 280 for a keyboard, 350 for a floppy drive and 30 for a mac mini power cable.

30 euro is what you usually pay for a complete G4 or core2duo mini package including everything, and i´d say anyone who pays more than 20 bucks for a keyboard - or mabye 35 if it is new - must have even more mental health problems than such sellers do.

if i had 600 bucks left to upgrade to a ti, i would rather pay a forum member to solder me one!
 
 
i recently saw an offer for a porsche cayman, 21 years old, no extras, for 35,000 euro, right beside another ad for exactly the same type of car, which was offered for a more realistic 4800.

i consider such offers an attempted fraud.

It costs nothing to leave these listings up in perpetuity. While I hate that listings like these drive up the market value considerably, it only takes one bored stock trader/YouTube star/whatever to press Buy It Now, so I understand the reasoning.

[IIO]

the business model is complete transparent to me. but in germany it would be simply illegal.

[alphaTECH]

the business model is complete transparent to me. but in germany it would be simply illegal.

Please explain how selling your property in the free market under capitalism for a price of your choosing is illegal? This is not a smallpox vaccine that will save lives, it's a decades old video card.

[IIO]

it is illegal when there is a law which says it is illegal.

[refinery]

Reminds me of the guy who came on here trying to fleece hobbyists for like $900 for a 8500 + g3 card. I enjoyed watching each progressive relist on eBay get cheaper and cheaper until it came down to prices that, while still inflated, were far more reasonable for that specific hardware. Nobody should be paying more than $200 for a g3 upgrade and even that's being highly generous and understanding of the vintage market.

[GaryN]

it is illegal when there is a law which says it is illegal.

Please explain the German law that makes selling items you own at a price you set illegal. It's a fascinating concept… 

BTW… I've sold stuff on fleabay for years. What's going on now is these idiots fall across something "vintage" they think might be saleable for a higher than reasonable price but they don't know exactly what that price might be. Trouble is:
1) If they list it in an auction, well, it's an auction. It might just sell for peanuts and that would suck.
2) If they list it in an "offer" or "best offer" format, fleabay sees that as a way to just have a pseudo–auction with the seller having all the leverage, so all kinds of fleabay rules and time limits etc. come into play and everything gets complicated and that would also suck. So…
3) They just list it at an obscenely high price figuring someone who really wants it will contact them with a decent offer… OR
4) They might just get lucky and some fool will actually grab it for the obscene price.

[torvan]

Growl.  I got two of those Geforce 4600 Ti AGP cards from an ebay seller for $129 each.  Asking $599 is just fracking insane.

But given "retro computing" is all the rage, it does not surprise me that questionable sellers are asking that much.

[IIO]

Please explain the German law that makes selling items you own at a price you set illegal. It's a fascinating concept…

we have something here called "politics" or "state" - i know that you have to explain that to citizens of cocacola-apple-walmart-amazon-exxon.

alltogether there are about 50 different laws full of interesting norms which are regulating everything, including how you may annonce prices, whom you may sell things, under which conditions you may make contracts, how you have to explain your prices, that you may not stay anonymous, that you may not trick other into whatever, and so on.

that system prevents us from living in a "free market" which ignores that humans have rights and needs.

when somebody offers a graphics card for 800 bucks which is normally traded for 30, and somebody buys it because he is a bit stupid or thought it might be brandnew or extremely rare, then the seller commited a federal crime after §219 StGB (actually in all european countries)

not sure if i get it right...

"Any person who uses [...] the inexperience, lack of judgment, or significant weakness of will of another party to exploit them for himself or a third party [...] 3. for any other service [...] for pecuniary advantages which are conspicuously disproportionate to the service or its provision shall be punished with imprisonment not less than three years or with a fine."

where "any other service" includes offering a contract to buy goods.

BTW… I've sold stuff on fleabay for years. What's going on now is these idiots fall across something "vintage" they think might be saleable for a higher than reasonable price but they don't know exactly what that price might be.

sold as new. "replacement part, never used!"

price is higher than from manufacturer.



one should just drive there and beat them up.

4) They might just get lucky and some fool will actually grab it for the obscene price.

unfortunately these offers are not illegal, only if somebody is dumb enough you can act.

but when somebody calls a dozens of such prices, we all know what he is trying to pull.

[refinery]

He is not kidding. There are some very specific laws about putting things on ebay in the EU and Germany.
Just read this:
https://musictech.com/news/industry/man-ordered-pay-12000-cancelling-sale-studer-tape-recorder/

[ssp3]

We all know very well what happened. 

One guy tried to play the system, but got outplayed by the other guy, who played the different system.
This is what can happen when you play by the laws and rules set out in one country (US), but you reside in a country where different laws and rules may apply (UK, EU, DE etc). Ouch!

The Mirror article has more details on this.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/german-court-orders-british-pensioner-29550461

Funnily, the name of the "pensioner" rings the bell. I think, I've dealt with him about 10 or even more years ago. It was also Studer related and I wasn't particulary happy with the outcome.

Also, it is well known that UK is the motherland of all Studer A-80 recorders, where every pensioner has one or two (or ten) of those sitting in the basement. 

[IIO]

that buyers also can be idiots is not an excuse for illegal business models of sellers.

[alphaTECH]

He is not kidding. There are some very specific laws about putting things on ebay in the EU and Germany.
Just read this:
https://musictech.com/news/industry/man-ordered-pay-12000-cancelling-sale-studer-tape-recorder/

That is not the same context, not even close. That man ran afoul of contractual law. There was no exploitative actions involved.

"Any person who uses [...] the inexperience, lack of judgment, or significant weakness of will of another party to exploit them for himself or a third party [...] 3. for any other service [...] for pecuniary advantages which are conspicuously disproportionate to the service or its provision shall be punished with imprisonment not less than three years or with a fine."

The expensive Ti 4600 listing is not exploitative in the sense that someone will ever be in such dire straits that they need the card to pull themselves out of a hole. That law would apply if the listing was like $150, then somehow the seller found out that I desperately needed the card or I was mentally stunted in some way or just plain dumb, and he decided to jack the price up to $600 because of that.

I realise that you're emotionally attached to this hardware but that doesn't mean that someone is breaking the law by selling it for outrageous prices.

one should just drive there and beat them up.

Now that would be illegal.

[refinery]

He is not kidding. There are some very specific laws about putting things on ebay in the EU and Germany.
Just read this:
https://musictech.com/news/industry/man-ordered-pay-12000-cancelling-sale-studer-tape-recorder/

That is not the same context, not even close. That man ran afoul of contractual law. There was no exploitative actions involved.

I didn't post that because it's the same context of marking up cards to highway robbery prices. I was posting it to support IIOs comment that laws regarding online sales and auctions are very different in Germany than they are in the US.

[GaryN]

This is exactly why I so often just sleep late and never, never touch a computer.

This has, in one single day, managed to go from simple commentary about one single thing to an impossible mash of:
apples, APPLE, oranges, pickles, graphics cards, cherries, German abuse of authority, pregnancy and vintage computer parts.

Wait…… pregnancy ??

Please explain the German law that makes selling items you own at a price you set illegal. It's a fascinating concept…

when somebody offers a graphics card for 800 bucks which is normally traded for 30, and somebody buys it because he is a bit stupid or thought it might be brandnew or extremely rare, then the seller commited a federal crime after §219 StGB (actually in all european countries)

Well, I Googled §219 StGB and got:  https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__219.html

which went to: Criminal Code (StGB) 
Section 219  Counseling for pregnant women in an emergency or conflict situation

OOPS……

Anyway, besides the fact that this "Case of the Mysterious Studer" Has more to do with hurt feelings over Brexit than with pricing graphics cards I'll say only that clearly, the case is - or at least should be - far from over. I suspect you'll see ebay get involved in appealing this clearly idiotic ruling on behalf of Mr. Godden because otherwise, the ruling of a single, obviously politically motivated German jurist will force them to completely alter their auction rules and procedures into oblivion since the ruling sets an untenable precedent for ALL auctions in the future. Mr. Godden may have had to give in for lack of legal funds but ebay is another animal entirely. We'll see…

Meanwhile, the "Case of the Overpriced Graphics Cards" is not, repeat NOT an auction, despite everybody wanting to take the opportunity to bitch about auctions in general. So…

For those too lazy to go back and re-read my points, here they are again:

I've sold stuff on fleabay for years. What's going on now is these idiots fall across something "vintage" they think might be saleable for a higher than reasonable price but they don't know exactly what that price might be. Trouble is:

1) If they list it in an auction, well, it's an auction. It might just sell for peanuts and that would suck.
2) If they list it in an "offer" or "best offer" format, fleabay sees that as a way to just have a pseudo–auction with the seller having all the leverage, so all kinds of fleabay rules and time limits etc. come into play and everything gets complicated and that would also suck. So…
3) They just list it at an obscenely high price figuring someone who really wants it will contact them with a decent offer… OR
4) They might just get lucky and some fool will actually grab it for the obscene price.

If selling stuff at crazy high prices was illegal, Rolls-Royce and Mercedes-Benz would never have sold any cars.

[refinery]

Meanwhile, the "Case of the Overpriced Graphics Cards" is not, repeat NOT an auction, despite everybody wanting to take the opportunity to bitch about auctions in general. So…

People still auction stuff on ebay? I have a lot of saved searches set up for various legacy things I'm interested in and I'd say abouut 95% are all B-I-N listings. The remaining 5% are typically listed so high to start it has the same result, it doesnt sell.