Mac OS 9 Discussion > Emulation
Virtual PC some info
Jubadub:
I finally tried booting JaS, this time with the full 4.4GB image, under OS 9 and OS X, and now the outcome was consistent on both machines and OSes. Now VPC says there was some error and that the machine needs to be restarted.
I also noticed that the JaS image, once mounted, has 2 partitions. Macintosh Garden member MikeTomTom briefly explains what they are in this thread. (We are discussing this JaS + VPC plan there, too.)
In one of the partitions, "osx86dvd", there's a file, "BOOTHELP.TXT", and it reveals to us a few more command-line parameters we can use during boot. The full file says:
--- Quote --- The boot: prompt waits for you to type advanced startup options.
If you don't type anything, the computer continues starting up normally. It
uses the kernel and configuration files on the startup device, which it also
uses as the root device. Advanced startup options use the following syntax:
[device] [arguments]
Example arguments include
device: rd= (e.g. rd=disk0s2)
rd=* (e.g. rd=*/PCI0@0/CHN0@0/@0:1)
kernel: kernel name (e.g. "mach_kernel" - must be in "/" )
flags: -v (verbose) -s (single user mode),
-x (safe mode) -F (ignore boot configuration file)
"Graphics Mode"="WIDTHxHEIGHTxDEPTH" (e.g. "1024x768x32")
For VESA 3.0 graphics, you may append a refresh rate
after an "@" character (e.g. "1280x1024x32@75")
kernel flags (e.g. debug=0x144)
io=0xffffffff (defined in IOKit/IOKitDebug.h)
Example: mach_kernel rd=disk0s1 -v "Graphics Mode"="4096x4096x32@85"
If the computer won't start up properly, you may be able to start it up using
safe mode. Type -x to start up in safe mode, which ignores all cached
driver files.
Special booter commands:
?memory Displays information about the computer's memory.
?video Displays VESA video modes supported by the computer's BIOS.
Additional useful command-line options:
config= Use an alternate Boot.plist file.
platform=ACPI|X86PC Use either ACPI or non-ACPI platform support.
Options useful in the com.apple.Boot.plist file:
"Boot Graphics"=Yes|No Use graphics mode or text mode when starting.
"Quiet Boot"=Yes|No Use quiet boot mode (no messages or prompt).
Timeout=8 Number of seconds to pause at the boot: prompt.
--- End quote ---
Using the -F argument (ignores boot configuration file), we get to see this:
It won't get past that, and in fact it barely got started booting, BUT, there's some element of divine justice about this sight. :)
If I understood things right, it seems to be crashing during System:Library:Extensions.mkext (from disc partition "JaS 10.4.8 AMD Intel SSE2 SSE3", which is essentially the Tiger partition) being read. By following the BOOTHELP.TXT file and changing "Boot Graphics" from "Yes" to "No" in the com.apple.Boot.plist file (full path being Library:Preferences:SystemConfiguration:com.apple.Boot.plist), we get to see where exactly it seems to be crashing at, or right before the actual crashing point (assuming it is not being shown, and would be shown next):
Based on that, I tried adding "platform=ACPI" or "platform=X86PC" to my command-line arguments, but I got the same outcome regardless.
Then I thought of deleting whatever it takes to let things at least boot, but being unfamiliar with OS X files, I wasn't quite sure what to remove. I tried removing a lot of files from the disc, but my efforts did not change the outcome.
I was also checking the plist files and seeing if there was some node/attribute I could try changing, but I didn't find anything that caught my eye. Then again, there are tons of plist files to check...
So that's where I stand now. I wonder if VPC is doing everything with the first partition, "JaS 10.4.8 AMD Intel SSE2 SSE3", and is not making use of the ever-important boot files from the other partition, "osx86dvd"? Edit: Nevermind, if I unmount "osx86dvd" from desktop, then it doesn't even begin to boot.
Anyone, especially someone with more OS X knowledge than me (basically anyone), willing to give this a shot, too?
DrNo7:
--- Quote ---from disc partition "JaS 10.4.8 AMD Intel SSE2 SSE3",
--- End quote ---
If I rmember properly, VPC emulates a Pentium2 or equivalent. Unfortunately, as the disk image name reminds us, Tiger x86 does require SSE2 & SSE3 vector units on the CPU (similar to PPC AltiVec).
So if the CPU emulated does not have the capability, it will never boot. If you are lucky, some hackintosh dev wrote a kext or a patch to enable SSE2 only CPUs but I don't think there will be a chance to find also the same to "translate" SSE2 calls into lesser instructions.
The attempt was interesting (running Snow Leopard or newer could have been fun) but would require some darker magic than currently available...
Jubadub:
--- Quote from: DrNo7 on May 11, 2022, 09:36:36 PM ---
--- Quote ---from disc partition "JaS 10.4.8 AMD Intel SSE2 SSE3",
--- End quote ---
If I rmember properly, VPC emulates a Pentium2 or equivalent. Unfortunately, as the disk image name reminds us, Tiger x86 does require SSE2 & SSE3 vector units on the CPU (similar to PPC AltiVec).
So if the CPU emulated does not have the capability, it will never boot. If you are lucky, some hackintosh dev wrote a kext or a patch to enable SSE2 only CPUs but I don't think there will be a chance to find also the same to "translate" SSE2 calls into lesser instructions.
The attempt was interesting (running Snow Leopard or newer could have been fun) but would require some darker magic than currently available...
--- End quote ---
I thought the exact same thing. Yet, over at that Garden page I linked to, user MikeTomTom said that it isn't a problem since, despite what the ISO file name suggests, he was able to boot JaS in the past on a Pentium 4, which, from what could be inferred from the conversation, lacks both SSE3 and even SSE2.
About what Virtual PC emulates, I can confirm that, at least as it is, VPC 6.x lacks SSE2 support, as the latest version of Firefox for Windows XP (52.9.0esr 32-bit) will inform us. The (hidden) "Scripts" menu item from VPC seems to suggest at least MMX is supported (which can be disabled from there), and no idea about SSE (SSE1), but I'm under the impression there's no SSE either due to there being an option to switch on/off MMX, but not SSE.
Actually, after writing all this, I just took a look and saw that this page says Pentium 3 introduced SSE, and Pentium 4 SSE2. Meaning MikeTomTom would have booted by having SSE2 support, after all... And it also supports your claim that VPC 6 emulates a Pentium 2.
It does seem like further dark magic and wizardry might be indeed required...
teroyk:
--- Quote from: Jubadub on May 12, 2022, 01:05:01 AM ---Actually, after writing all this, I just took a look and saw that this page says Pentium 3 introduced SSE, and Pentium 4 SSE2. Meaning MikeTomTom would have booted by having SSE2 support, after all... And it also supports your claim that VPC 6 emulates a Pentium 2.
--- End quote ---
VPC 6.0.2 emulates Intel CPU Family 6 Model 8 Stepping 4...and now comes good question what CPU is it exactly?
I think it is Intel Pentium III Coppermine without SSE, but I am not 100% sure. Has somebody stepping information to that Intel Family and Model?
DrNo7:
It is difficult to cross reference exactly by stepping (but it is usually internal bugfixing) but I ended up with P3 coppermine:
http://www.paradicesoftware.com/specs/cpuid/index.htm
According to Wikipedia, it has SSE:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_III
However, OS X requires SSE2 and SSE3 (I think there is a kext/patch to run SSE2 only but don't know how maintained it is).
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