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Author Topic: Digidesign Sound Designer II  (Read 29055 times)

ght4361

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Digidesign Sound Designer II
« on: September 04, 2020, 07:39:51 AM »

Greetings. I have been looking for information about Digidesign's Sound Designer II but I can't seem to find a lot on the Internet. Is there a manual available somewhere? Does anyone have a working system that could perhaps offer any insight?

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ssp3

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2020, 05:15:08 PM »

Greetings. I have been looking for information about Digidesign's Sound Designer II but I can't seem to find a lot on the Internet. Is there a manual available somewhere? Does anyone have a working system that could perhaps offer any insight?
Did you ask Siri? No?

OK, except a few Read Me's and manual supplements, SDII manual was only available in printed form. At first as a binder, later as a book. I think I had three different editions over the years.
As to the working system and insight - I haven't fired up my SDII system for at least 5-6 years and probably have forgotten many things, but can you at least formulate your question?
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daddyjeff

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2020, 07:33:03 PM »

I made contacts with the FBI, NASA and the CIA, none could solve the search, but SIRI told me to look at these available links.

thanks SIRI you are the best !!

-afro- :o 8)


http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/sound-designer-ii-283

http://archive.digidesign.com/download/legacy/sd2/
« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 07:50:16 PM by daddyjeff »
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ght4361

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2020, 03:44:26 AM »

Greetings. I have been looking for information about Digidesign's Sound Designer II but I can't seem to find a lot on the Internet. Is there a manual available somewhere? Does anyone have a working system that could perhaps offer any insight?
Did you ask Siri? No?

OK, except a few Read Me's and manual supplements, SDII manual was only available in printed form. At first as a binder, later as a book. I think I had three different editions over the years.
As to the working system and insight - I haven't fired up my SDII system for at least 5-6 years and probably have forgotten many things, but can you at least formulate your question?

Well, I found a few older topics on the Avid DUC forum where they were discussing how practical the software was, especially when it came to crossfade live recorded music or creating seamless loops.

This is primarily what I would like to know. How flexible are the editing tools? Can you adjust the crossfades in detail? Does it support more than one files open at once, copying and pasting back and forth? Can you mix-paste a segment to another sound file like in Soundforge or Bias Peak (meaning, without moving the rest of the waveform further to the right)?

I'm looking to set up a dedicated audio editor and since I am also interested in classic Mac software, I thought maybe this would be a good choice. We normally use a Mac Pro with Pro Tools HD in the studio.

I made contacts with the FBI, NASA and the CIA, none could solve the search, but SIRI told me to look at these available links.

thanks SIRI you are the best !!

-afro- :o 8)


http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/sound-designer-ii-283

http://archive.digidesign.com/download/legacy/sd2/

I checked both of these before. Macintosh Garden does contain the software but wouldn't you need dedicated hardware to be able to run it?
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ssp3

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2020, 09:25:51 PM »

.. but wouldn't you need dedicated hardware to be able to run it?
Before answering all your questions, consider this.
1. To make SDII work, you will need Audiomedia III card. Do you have it?
2. To make Audiomedia III card work in post-beige Macs you will need a card with PCI Matchmaker chip Rev.QC or later.
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=1671180&postcount=2
3. SDII is not officially qualified for OS9. (It does not run correctly (no record) in my Digital Audio G4/9.2.2. The AMIII card itself works fine with other software that I use.)
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/faq/sd2.html

Still wanna go down that route?
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ght4361

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2020, 04:04:05 AM »

I have a Powermac G4 MDD 1.25 ghz. I know that you need an Audiomedia III card (or Audiomedia II for that matter) to run SDII, but can't it also be used with the Pro Tools DSP cards of that era? The Digidesign archive page mentions that in can be used with Pro Tools III PCI too. I assume that SDII came as a supplementary editor to PT.

In addition, I know that it is not supported officially in OS 9 but there is mention in this thread http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=278606  of a working configuration with an AMIII on a G4. Of course, I don't know what "working" means in this case. You mentioned it cannot record, right?

I don't mind spending some time to configure a system but given the lack of a demo, I'm trying to gather as much info as possible to find out if this would be ideal for my workflow, hence the questions about usability.

This is only a personal project. I don't depend on it to do regular, paying work.
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IIO

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2020, 04:54:27 AM »

AM III works great with PT 4 (DAE) and Cubase VST 4 (ASIO) - and with soundmanager, too - but i am not sure about MacOS9 and G4 processors? i wouldnt dare to try. it´s system 7 stuff.
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ssp3

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2020, 05:51:46 AM »

I have a Powermac G4 MDD 1.25 ghz.
... can't it also be used with the Pro Tools DSP cards of that era? The Digidesign archive page mentions that in can be used with Pro Tools III PCI too.
Yes, it can, but that's another, even bigger can of worms. Requirement of Rev.QC PCI Matchmaker chips on all cards still apply and, they are scarce.
Quote
In addition, I know that it is not supported officially in OS 9 but there is mention in this thread http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=278606  of a working configuration with an AMIII on a G4. Of course, I don't know what "working" means in this case. You mentioned it cannot record, right?
DAE/DSI 5.1.1 ... That's interesting. I never used anything past 3.4.2. Next time I power up that particular machine, I'll try the newer ones out. And yes, I could not record (there was no file produced).
Quote
I'm trying to gather as much info as possible to find out if this would be ideal for my workflow...
Here's the link to manual of Atari version of SDII. All functions are the same as far as I can see.
http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-st-sound-tools_s17566.html

« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 04:18:04 PM by ssp3 »
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ght4361

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2020, 12:07:26 PM »

I will take a good look at the manual and see if I can get a better overview of the software. Thanks for the input so far. :)
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daddyjeff

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2020, 06:58:55 PM »

.. but wouldn't you need dedicated hardware to be able to run it?
Before answering all your questions, consider this.
1. To make SDII work, you will need Audiomedia III card. Do you have it?
2. To make Audiomedia III card work in post-beige Macs you will need a card with PCI Matchmaker chip Rev.QC or later.
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=1671180&postcount=2
3. SDII is not officially qualified for OS9. (It does not run correctly (no record) in my Digital Audio G4/9.2.2. The AMIII card itself works fine with other software that I use.)
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/faq/sd2.html

Still wanna go down that route?

Sound Designer II ™ + 2.8.3 works with hardware digidesign, which has audiomedia III for example digi001 that has this interface.

digi001 has drivers for os8 and os9. Sound Designer II ™ + 2.8.3 works with os7 os8 onwards, it was never tested on os9, but those who have a digi001 for os8 will be able to use it.

http://archive.digidesign.com/download/sndrvr/
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 07:10:38 PM by daddyjeff »
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ssp3

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2020, 11:30:37 PM »

Why are you posting this nonsense and confusing people?

Sigh..
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AtariMan

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2020, 08:41:27 AM »

Sound Designer works with Pro Tools 3, Audiomedia 2, Audiomedia 3 - no plugins.
Everything else is fantasy.
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ght4361

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2020, 09:08:22 AM »

Alright. I finished checking the manual but there are a few things I don't get.

1. Perhaps I have overlooked this, but I don't understand if the various processes are performed in real-time or if they function more like Audacity (set up the parameters, render the clip and if you don't like it, undo, change the parameters, render again etc). The discussion here has led me to believe that they are real-time: https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=218838 .

2. From what I see, the maximum audio resolution is 16-bit, 48khz with the Audiomedia III. Could the Pro tools III provide 24-bit, 48khz through its own converters or is the bit depth limited by Sound designer itself?

3. There is no mention of DSP plugins in the manual. Maybe they weren't compatible with the Atari version. I've read that the Waves suite was available.


Sound Designer works with Pro Tools 3, Audiomedia 2, Audiomedia 3 - no plugins.
Everything else is fantasy.

Supposedly it did support plugins according to this thread: http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=331578 . But I really don't know the details. That's what I've been trying to figure out.
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ssp3

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2020, 10:40:17 AM »

Crossfades and individual region's gain adjustments are in real time (in playlist window).
Normalize, change gain, EQ(?) etc. are all rendered "offline".

Plug-ins are not supported on PCI hardware, only on NuBus.
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/faq/sd2.html

Audiomedia III is full 24 bits on digital in/out. Analog part is 18bit in/out, limited by the A/D and D/A chips used. If recording to 24 bit file, remaining bits are filled with zeros.
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/propix/AM3.html

Sound Designer is 24 bits, if set up that way.
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IIO

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2020, 08:10:48 PM »


2. From what I see, the maximum audio resolution is 16-bit, 48khz with the Audiomedia III. Could the Pro tools III provide 24-bit, 48khz through its own converters or is the bit depth limited by Sound designer itself?

when SDII app came out that was before OS 8 - and some 7 or so years before PT had 24 bit file support.

so even if it would work to work with 24 bit files, what is it good for to have an editor on an operating system where there is no multitrackrecorder and no dac with 24 bit? and which was targeted towards 8- 12- and 16-bit samplers and allows rates down to 8khz.
not to speak of the RAM and storage options in these days.

Quote
Supposedly it did support plugins according to this thread

yeah, but not on AMIII. probably a pure marketing decision. my card came bundled with PT and they wanted you to use that.... and well, most if not all SD plug-ins are also available for AS (not sure about JVP), so could just use PT as your editor app.

as for your "looping" request, you can use infinity for that in a 16 bit world. it is from the same man anway. :)
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IIO

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2020, 08:30:26 PM »

from the 282 readme:

"The application Patch SDII 2.82 is designed to operate on installed versions of Sound Designer II 2.82 and 2.82. Other versions of Sound Designer II are not patched.

Be sure that you have launched your installed Sound Designer II Version 2.82 application at least once.

The updater identifies the files for update by searching on the selected drive. If you have renamed the files, there is a possibility that some files will not be updated. In the event that you suspect an incomplete update, try re-installing from your original master disks (for v2.8 or v2.81), and then repeat the update.

Mt. Digi was not automatically installed by the v2.8 and v2.81 installers for Sound Designer II. If you want an updated copy of Mt. Digi™, be sure that you have a copy (v1.0 or v1.1) in your control panels folder. To install it, drag it off of your Sound Designer II “Install 1” disk into your Control Panels folder.

The application “Update to SDII 2.82” is designed to update installed versions of Sound Designer II (SDII) 2.8 or 2.81 to SDII Version 2.82.  Different authorization keys were used for SDII 2.8 and for SDII 2.81. As a result, this updater will convert SDII 2.8 to a version of SDII 2.82 that uses the appropriate authorization key for SDII 2.8. Likewise, the updater will convert SDII 2.81 into a version of SDII 2.82 that uses the correct key for SDII 2.81."



LOL WHAT?



"For users with both 2.8 and 2.81 versions:
The patch only repairs Sound Designer II Version 2.82 and 2.82 of the English applications and not the Japanese versions. If you currently have Sound Designer II Version 2.8 or 2.81, you must first use the posted Updater".



うまく !


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ssp3

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2020, 10:58:49 PM »

Actually, the ever changing, half-baked, authorization keys losing Pace was the real reason for this clusterfcuk.
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ght4361

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2020, 12:45:11 AM »

Crossfades and individual region's gain adjustments are in real time (in playlist window).
Normalize, change gain, EQ(?) etc. are all rendered "offline".

Plug-ins are not supported on PCI hardware, only on NuBus.
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/faq/sd2.html

Audiomedia III is full 24 bits on digital in/out. Analog part is 18bit in/out, limited by the A/D and D/A chips used. If recording to 24 bit file, remaining bits are filled with zeros.
http://archive.digidesign.com/support/propix/AM3.html

Sound Designer is 24 bits, if set up that way.

So, the only way to run plugins inside SDII would be with the Audiomedia II Nubus card and only with offline processing. That way you had to "guess" how it would sound like. I presume it's the same for the mix function.

I have also found this old article from 1989 about Sound Tools: http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/digidesign-sound-tools/5626 . What was the relation of this software to Sound Designer II? The arcticle mentions it is like an extension to SDII. A preview function appears to be present in it, so I assumed that preview would also be available in the latter.

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IIO

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2020, 06:07:59 AM »

i am afraid there were no realtime plug-in in those days.

soundtools? is just a combination with a hardware.
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ght4361

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Re: Digidesign Sound Designer II
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2020, 12:56:45 PM »

Got it. I notice that sometimes these names are used interchangeably so there is some confusion.

Based on the descriptions, I thought that Sound Designer II was a "predecessor" to Bias Peak, but that program seems to be quite a bit more advanced even in its earlier versions. Maybe I'm asking too much from such an old software.

But then again, how did they do sound design back then? Given the lack of automation or any other envelope tool, I suppose you would use only crossfades to change smoothly from one sound to the next or very fast fade ins/outs for an "impact" sound effect for example.
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