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[darthnVader]

These drivers are pretty buggy, but they work for 2D/3D.

I did not include the ATI Video Accelerator, as it hangs the system and requires to force quit.

I tested Rave with Unreal Tournament, and OpenGL with Quake 3.

Quake 3 did crash the system at higher screen res.

YMMV, these are pre-alfa drivers. I haven't done a lot of testing, and sometimes the 2D accelerator may hang when it loads at boot.



 

[MacOS Plus]

  Thanks for that, I'll try it out.  I have three additional ATI files present that weren't part of your set nor mentioned:

- ATI Driver Update 2.4.4
- ATI MPP Manager 1.2
- ATI ROM Xtender 1.2

  Do you have these installed also unmodified?  Do I even need any of these present?

[MacOS Plus]

  So this is certainly a big improvement, especially having functional acceleration.  As it stands, I would have immediate applications for this machine even with the remaining bugs.  It's nice to see a nearly correct set of resolutions offered, although I can't use 1920x1080 60Hz properly because something is wrong with the timing tables.  On VGA the image is the wrong width and shifted quite a bit to the right.  My LCD can't adjust enough to compensate fully.  I'm going with 1280x960 75Hz for now to keep the image centered and proportional.

[ELN]

Great work!

I suggest https://github.com/elliotnunn/patchpef for editing PEFs. And dig up a copy of MacNosy if you want a very sophisticated interactive disassembler.

[ELN]

2D acceleration works for me. I can select between three sensible-looking resolutions for my cheap Asus LCD.

Fantastic!

[darthnVader]

Turns out that the trouble with Quake 3 was it not finding any sound device. Now that we have sound working on external power speakers, it works great.

Does anyone know of a full list of OpenGL/Rave games for OS 9?

Also any links to where I might find some of these games:

MOHAA
MOHAA:Spearhead
JKII

Also, if anyone is running OS 9 on an iBook G4 with Radeon 9200 graphics, I can likely get 2d/3d working on those too. Just need to know the Device ID of your 9200.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Also, if anyone is running OS 9 on an iBook G4 with Radeon 9200 graphics, I can likely get 2d/3d working on those too. Just need to know the Device ID of your 9200.

Long time lurker here

its very cool watching you guys get Mac OS 9 booting on various unsupported hardware configs and then proceed to get all the hardware working

I was only properly involved at the very beginning of all of this (I think i was the first Person to boot Mac OS 9.2.2 on a 7447A unsupported Mac ) and I have managed to Get Mac OS 8.6 ( and OS X Server 1.2v3) booting on some un-supported systems (Mac OS 8.6 on a Dual 1.42Ghz MDD was a fun one, after doing tests in OF confirming Mac OS 8.6 could indeed boot, I then more or less applied iMics Mac OS 9 ROM patches to the Mac OS 8.6 ROM from the Sawtooth system image so you you dont have to Mess around in OF, heres a video of it booting on My Pismo https://youtu.be/41Qvg82CZJM on the MDD I had to Fake the CPUs PVR to that of a Rev 2.7 7400 before it would boot FYI )

out of curiosity if you dont mind me asking, how are you enabling 2d/3d acceleration? are you adding the device id to the drivers or is there more too it?

(I know there also has to be an NDRV too, IIRC iMac got an NDRV working on the iBook G4 Radeon Mobility 9200 but we never had 3d/2d working)

anyways heres a dump from my 14 inch PowerBook6,5 Late 2004 iBook G4 1.33Ghz 7447A(B? not pulled the system apart to check)

Hope it helps it would be Awesome to see 3d/2d working as I think that was the only thing (apart from airport) that was not working under OS 9 on these iBook G4s, with 2d/3d working they would make for quite the potent Mac OS 9 system

Code: [Select]

0 > dev screen  ok
0 > .properties
width                   
                        00000400
height                  00000300
linebytes               00000400
depth                   00000008
display-type            4c434400
device_type             display
character-set           ISO8859-1
reg                     00000000 
iso6429-1983-colors     
name                    ATY,Via_A
compatible              ATY,Via
EDID                    00ffffff ffffff00 06103f9c 00000000 0e0e0103 801c1578
                        0a348592 55539226 20505400 08000101 01010101 01010101
                        01010101 01016419 00404100 26301888 36001dd6 10000018
                        00000001 00061020 00000000 00000000 0a200000 00fe004e
                        31343158 420a2020 20202020 000000fc 00436f6c 6f72204c
                        43440a20 202000f7
inverter-current        00000000
backlight-pwm-freq      000061a8
backlight-control       00000001 00000000
built-in               
display-link-type       00000000
display-data-justification 00000001
display-link-component-bits 00000006
display-pixel-component-bits 00000006
display-inverter        00000000
display-inverter-default-cycle 000000cc
display-dither-support  00000000
display-power-sequence  00000000 00000001 00000014 000000fa 000000fa 00000014
                        00000001 00000190 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
address                 9c008000

 ok
0 > dev ..  ok
0 > ls
ff9da3c8: /ATY,Via_A@0
ff9de010:   /i2c         
ff9db330: /ATY,Via_B@1
 ok
0 > .properties
vendor-id               
                        00001002
device-id               00005c63
revision-id             00000001
class-code              00030000
interrupts              00000001
min-grant               00000008
max-latency             00000000
subsystem-vendor-id     00001002
subsystem-id            00005c63
devsel-speed            00000001
fast-back-to-back       
VRAM,totalsize          02000000
ATY,FCODE_MEM           200200ff
ATY,Flags               000000a4
ATY,RefCLK              00006978
ATY,MCLK                0002e630
ATY,SCLK                0002cad8
#address-cells          00000001
#size-cells             00000000
reg                     00008000 00000000 00000000  00000000 00000000
                        02008030 00000000 00000000  00000000 00020000
                        42008010 00000000 00000000  00000000 08000000
                        02008018 00000000 00000000  00000000 00010000
name                    ATY,ViaParent
model                   ATY,RV280M9+
ATY,Rom#                3131332d 78787878 782d3134 3200
ATY,Card#               3130322d 78787878 782d3030 00
device_type             ATY,DDParent
AGP_Address_Range       00000000 ffffffff
AGP_Address_Block       10000000
AGP_Alignment           10000000
AGP_AllowOverlap        00000001
ATY,Fcode               312e3934 00
assigned-addresses      c2008010 00000000 98000000  00000000 08000000
                        82008030 00000000 90020000  00000000 00020000
                        82008018 00000000 90000000  00000000 00010000
AGP_Master             
MVAD                    000000ff 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
                        00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
                        00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 122ab970

 ok
0 >


[MacOS Plus]

  That's really awesome about OS 8.6.  I had actually posted here a while back asking about the possibility of making it work on later machines, but the discussion didn't go anywhere.  I have a very specific thing I need that for.  It would be terrific if you could post exactly what you modded to make it work, and then I can try to replicate it myself.  I have a perfect MDD doing nothing right now that I could use for the task.

[LightBulbFun]

Thanks heres is a post/ramble I made on MR about booting 8.6 on unsupported machines I still need to update it with my Mac OS 8.6 ROM.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-os-8-6-findings-and-ramblings.2021922/

[darthnVader]

Also, if anyone is running OS 9 on an iBook G4 with Radeon 9200 graphics, I can likely get 2d/3d working on those too. Just need to know the Device ID of your 9200.

Long time lurker here

its very cool watching you guys get Mac OS 9 booting on various unsupported hardware configs and then proceed to get all the hardware working

I was only properly involved at the very beginning of all of this (I think i was the first Person to boot Mac OS 9.2.2 on a 7447A unsupported Mac ) and I have managed to Get Mac OS 8.6 ( and OS X Server 1.2v3) booting on some un-supported systems (Mac OS 8.6 on a Dual 1.42Ghz MDD was a fun one, after doing tests in OF confirming Mac OS 8.6 could indeed boot, I then more or less applied iMics Mac OS 9 ROM patches to the Mac OS 8.6 ROM from the Sawtooth system image so you you dont have to Mess around in OF, heres a video of it booting on My Pismo https://youtu.be/41Qvg82CZJM on the MDD I had to Fake the CPUs PVR to that of a Rev 2.7 7400 before it would boot FYI )

out of curiosity if you dont mind me asking, how are you enabling 2d/3d acceleration? are you adding the device id to the drivers or is there more too it?

(I know there also has to be an NDRV too, IIRC iMac got an NDRV working on the iBook G4 Radeon Mobility 9200 but we never had 3d/2d working)

anyways heres a dump from my 14 inch PowerBook6,5 Late 2004 iBook G4 1.33Ghz 7447A(B? not pulled the system apart to check)

Hope it helps it would be Awesome to see 3d/2d working as I think that was the only thing (apart from airport) that was not working under OS 9 on these iBook G4s, with 2d/3d working they would make for quite the potent Mac OS 9 system

Code: [Select]

0 > dev screen  ok
0 > .properties
width                   
                        00000400
height                  00000300
linebytes               00000400
depth                   00000008
display-type            4c434400
device_type             display
character-set           ISO8859-1
reg                     00000000 
iso6429-1983-colors     
name                    ATY,Via_A
compatible              ATY,Via
EDID                    00ffffff ffffff00 06103f9c 00000000 0e0e0103 801c1578
                        0a348592 55539226 20505400 08000101 01010101 01010101
                        01010101 01016419 00404100 26301888 36001dd6 10000018
                        00000001 00061020 00000000 00000000 0a200000 00fe004e
                        31343158 420a2020 20202020 000000fc 00436f6c 6f72204c
                        43440a20 202000f7
inverter-current        00000000
backlight-pwm-freq      000061a8
backlight-control       00000001 00000000
built-in               
display-link-type       00000000
display-data-justification 00000001
display-link-component-bits 00000006
display-pixel-component-bits 00000006
display-inverter        00000000
display-inverter-default-cycle 000000cc
display-dither-support  00000000
display-power-sequence  00000000 00000001 00000014 000000fa 000000fa 00000014
                        00000001 00000190 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
address                 9c008000

 ok
0 > dev ..  ok
0 > ls
ff9da3c8: /ATY,Via_A@0
ff9de010:   /i2c         
ff9db330: /ATY,Via_B@1
 ok
0 > .properties
vendor-id               
                        00001002
device-id               00005c63
revision-id             00000001
class-code              00030000
interrupts              00000001
min-grant               00000008
max-latency             00000000
subsystem-vendor-id     00001002
subsystem-id            00005c63
devsel-speed            00000001
fast-back-to-back       
VRAM,totalsize          02000000
ATY,FCODE_MEM           200200ff
ATY,Flags               000000a4
ATY,RefCLK              00006978
ATY,MCLK                0002e630
ATY,SCLK                0002cad8
#address-cells          00000001
#size-cells             00000000
reg                     00008000 00000000 00000000  00000000 00000000
                        02008030 00000000 00000000  00000000 00020000
                        42008010 00000000 00000000  00000000 08000000
                        02008018 00000000 00000000  00000000 00010000
name                    ATY,ViaParent
model                   ATY,RV280M9+
ATY,Rom#                3131332d 78787878 782d3134 3200
ATY,Card#               3130322d 78787878 782d3030 00
device_type             ATY,DDParent
AGP_Address_Range       00000000 ffffffff
AGP_Address_Block       10000000
AGP_Alignment           10000000
AGP_AllowOverlap        00000001
ATY,Fcode               312e3934 00
assigned-addresses      c2008010 00000000 98000000  00000000 08000000
                        82008030 00000000 90020000  00000000 00020000
                        82008018 00000000 90000000  00000000 00010000
AGP_Master             
MVAD                    000000ff 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
                        00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000
                        00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 122ab970

 ok
0 >


It was just a matter of replacing the Device ID's for the Radeon 9200 Mac Edition with the one for the 9200 in the Mini.

I've got an iBook with 9200 on it's way to me, so I'll be hacking the drivers for the Via soon, and I'll post them if I can get them working.

For the Mimi we had to use the 'NDRV' from 10.3.7, later 'NDRV' didn't work with OS 9, tho for my iBook G4 with Radeon 9550 the 'NDRV' from 10.5.8 works just fine.

The Mini seems to have trouble with 1920x1080, and I've not been able to figure that out yet.

Nice work getting 8.6 going, I gave it a try in Qemu, but it bombed out during the ROM load with the Mac OS ROM for the Sawtooth. Never thought of trying to boot it native, but I don't think I have any software that would run under 8.6 that won't run under 9.2.2.

I always found 9.2.2 to be more stable, years ago with testing on my 8600. I had 8.5 Retail CD, and updated to 8.6, but I wanted to use iTools, however it required OS 9, and OS 9 was selling for more money than I wanted to give, so I hacked the 9.1 update to do a full install of 9.1 over an 8.6 install rather than 9.0.

9.1 was very unstable with my Sonnet G3 in the 8600, so I figured I'd try 9.2. I didn't use the OS 9 Helper, I hacked the system myself with resedit via info from an old thread that is now gone from the internet. I made a few custom changes to 9.2.2 and it was rock solid for me.

Thinking things on the internet would last forever, and having a backup of my modified System Suitcase, I posted the changes I made back the the forum I read to learn how to hack it.


OS 9 Helper doesn't make the correct changes, it will boot and work, but I always found it highly unstable, my hacked system worked much better, but my backup on CD suffered from Bit rot, and the forum with the info I posted is now gone, so one day I'll have to recreate what I did.

[darthnVader]

BTW, the Quake 3 crashes I was having were do to there being no sound device. Now that we have sound on the Mini it's been 100% stable for me with 2d/3d.

The trouble I was having with system freeze at boot, when loading the ATI 2d accelerator seemed to be linked to the ATI Video accelerator, using a later version seems to work just fine. However, the last thing I've been unable to check is DVD playback under OS 9.

The OS 9 DVD player says the Mini is unsupported and quits, even tho ELN made the Mac OS ROM report the system is a G4 Cube.

So we have to figure out what DVD Player is looking for, so we can test Hardware accelerated MPEG2 playback with these drivers.

I don't remember, was there a MPEG2 extension, or Plugin for Quicktime on OS 9?

 

[LightBulbFun]

Cool good to know have you enabled any other ATI cards this way?

indeed sadly the Sawtooth 8.6 image causes QEMU to crash...

thats pretty cool on the 8600 front id very much be up for hearing how you got 9.2.2 on there exactly, I have a 4400/160 which is not supported by OS 9 helper and as such cant run 9.2.2 sadly... it would be cool if i can get it running 9.2.2 by manually patching it My Kanga Runs 9.2.2 very well via OS 9 helper tho (and Mac OS X 10.2.8 via xpostfacto)

 its funny I have gotten the 4400 to run Mac OS X 10.2.8 but not Mac OS 9.2.2  https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/success-with-the-power-macintosh-4400.2077767/

PS why does ELN make the ROM change the Compatibility and Model properties to PowerMac5,1? I would personally just leave it be as PowerMac10,1... but im curious why he changes it to that of the Cube?

[MacOS Plus]

PS why does ELN make the ROM change the Compatibility and Model properties to PowerMac5,1? I would personally just leave it be as PowerMac10,1... but im curious why he changes it to that of the Cube?

  The issue that arose on my Mini at random, and presumably would have on everyone else's eventually, was that OS 9 believed the Mini was an iBook and would automatically shut down to protect itself when it erroneously 'detected' the presence of a depleted battery and thinking it was running only on battery.  This may have been partially related to the hacked handling of the PMU, which was required to get this machine going in the first place, but as it stood would have made further testing next to impossible.  The simplest fix for now was to force the machine model to be detected as a non-portable type, which ELN selected to be the Cube as cute and mildly appropriate designation - it's the most similar 'flavor' of machine type/packaging, you might say a 'baby cube'/'son of a cube'/cube junior'.

  When the underlying issues get figured out, sure, it would be lovely to have the OS display a proper identity for the PowerMac10,1.  That would likely require more complex changes to prevent the 'portable phantom battery' behavior from happening, but for now we're served sufficiently well with the "Cube" designation for the sake of working through the rest of the major fixes we need to accomplish (minor remaining video bugs, correct sound device handling in control panel, better PMU support).  To some extent the Mini is a learning exercise that will help with compatibility fixes on other machines too, so the more stable a test bed right now, the better.

[darthnVader]

Cool good to know have you enabled any other ATI cards this way?

I modified the drivers for the 9550 device ID, the ATI Graphic Accelerator doesn't load, but the system reports 3D Rave and OpenGL to apps, however Rave games just freeze while testing for 3D, and OpenGL games go to a black screen.

I was hoping the R3xx and RV3xx would work in some sort of backward compatibility mode, but thats just not the case, ATI must have changes the way the registers are mapped from R2xx to R3xx.

No great loss, tho having a fully accelerated  9800 under OS 9 would be so cool, it just wasn't to be.

[macStuff]

having a fully accelerated  9800 under OS 9 would be so cool, it just wasn't to be.

are u saying we would need to find whoever worked for ATI and employ them for a few weeks to get this done?
that sucks :/

[ELN]

Hi LightBulbFun. Great work on getting 8.6 to boot on unsupported hardware! I have been able to replicate your work up to a blinking "?" on a floppy, but couldn't quite be bothered moving my hard drive to the KeyLargo bus.

Your work got me thinking about how I could adapt my build system to older Mac OS ROM versions. I have branched my newworld-rom repo to produce ROMs that are functionally identical to the Sawtooth 2.5.1 ROM: https://github.com/elliotnunn/newworld-rom/tree/version-2.5.1. The binary diffs are pretty clean.

[LightBulbFun]

@dathnvader

Cool, shame the R/RV3xx cards dont work with the drivers, for gits and shiggles it would be fun to try the same sort of patch with/for something like a Flashed FireGL X3 (I have a picture somewhere of that card running in OS 8.6 flashed to an X850 XT no drivers of course tho, you check out how I flashed the X850 XT ROM to the FireGL X3 here here https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/eeprom-replacement-and-flashing-x850-xt-rom-on-firegl-x3.2016538/

@ELN

Thanks! im glad its working on your machine, Just wondering whats the specs of your machine exactly?

For the record I have also been able to Boot Mac OS 8.1 on a Rev A G3 BW by using the Mac OS 1.2 ROM from 8.5.1. sadly it freezes during extension load but boots up fine (and very quickly) in safe mode, iv not been able to track down which extension is causing it to lock up tho.

[ELN]

It's a FW800 MDD that I flashed with the FW400 ROM.

darthnVader, I've been having a peek inside some of these ATI binaries and I notice that a lot of them have debug symbols, perfect for patchpef. Could you furnish us with a write-up on the function of each file and the exact patches required?

[LightBulbFun]

Got round to trying Mac OS 9.2.2 on my Mac mini (with Darthnvarders drivers)

can confirm it boots fine on my end I had a quick game of Quake 3 and it ran very well at max settings, I have to say while as an OS X box the Mac mini G4 aint the best, as an OS 9 Box it runs VERY nicely, I just need an SSD and this should be off its tits quick in 9 

only "Major" issue is Just as finder loads Monitor goes to sleep mode when connected via DVI, works fine via VGA tho. (I only sadly 1680x1050 via VGA but thats a Quirk between my monitor and Mac OS 9.2.2 in general with all systems, so working DVI would be nice)

I too would be interested in a write-up on how to patch the extentions with the Device IDs etc (Id like to test my iBook G4 Radeon Mobility 9200 with the same patches, and I know someone with an 1.25 eMac with Radeon 9200 I might be able to rope in for testing )

in OS X adding device IDs to drivers is easy just add it to the relevant place in the info.plist file LOL!

[DieHard]

That image is hilarious, the "G4 Cube" running at 1666 Mhz... this is getting too fun... going on ebay to buy a Mini... sold at least 4 for peanuts ($75) is 2014, may I can buy them back

I was going to wait for Internal Audio Support, but Time to get a FW interface out