Author Topic: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book  (Read 470 times)

Offline SonikArchitects

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ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« on: April 11, 2017, 09:37:31 AM »
Hey guys!

I'm looking to build something I never used back in the day so could use OS9'ers advice. I've got a tia book, loading it with ram and software...going to try an SSD (anyone done this?) and am looking to make a little (i.e. no rack gear) portable Logic Audio 6.43 (my fav)/Protools TDM/Audiosuite portable rig. I know there is a PCM/CIA to magma chassis solution. This doesn't interest me (to big).

I'm looking for something M-Box size that I have access to TDM/Audiosuite in Logic. I know it won't be uber-powerfull like my studio rig (blown out dual magma chassis PT/Logic rig) but it's something to use on the road.

It seems M-Audio made a bunch of interfaces that may accommodate this when they bought avid but this may be early OSX days. Would love you guys help on this! I'd like to make the most blown out, stable OS9 PT/Logic rig possible.

Also, I should probably start another thread about this. I have about 4x 100 CD cases of software and system disks I want to archive for historical purposes. Anyone on here up to the task that everyone nominates as trustworthy, I'd send them too and am happy for them to be shared with the group as disk images. I've got stuff that 10000000% for sure, no one on here has and are definitely not on the internet. I'd like these to be shared only privately on this list.

Anyway, help on the above appreciated and hope your guys are all great.
Best,
_BT

Offline DieHard

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 10:29:37 AM »
BT, I cannot tell you how inspiring your "Electronic Opus" stuff is to my old brain; makes me dream in color :)

Anyway, the best small TI PCMCIA road setup is:

1) RME HDSP CardBus Audio Interface
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RME-HDSP-CardBus-Audio-Interface-/252773577570?hash=item3ada7ab362:g:NlAAAOSwCU1YpaLg
2) Hammerfall DSP I/O-boxes Digiface, Multiface and RPM

I used it with a multiface
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RME-Hammerfall-DSP-Multiface-/232282265120?hash=item36151a1620:g:fI0AAOSw-0xYho3d

I used this setup after MacWord 2000 when I traveled to some project studios that had Manhattan NY clients interested in Cubase VST/5.  It tracked and Mixed solid as a rock, and produced an end result with the level of quality you are used to... anything else I tried from Motu to M-Audio paled in comparison on the TI.

Offline mrhappy

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 11:46:35 AM »
going to try an SSD (anyone done this?)

Just put one of these into a 1 Ghz Alu 17" Powerbook and it DOES feel very snappy! ;D

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Mercury_Extreme_Pro/Legacy_Edition

It's setup as a dual boot with Tiger/ "Unsupported OS 9"... Planned on running the 'Instant DAW' on the OS 9 side but haven't got it going yet.  If that doesn't work out I'll probably try Logic 4.8whatever.

That rig that DieHard outlined looks pretty cool!

I've been looking at a Digigram VX card (440??) ... so that I could run s/pdif or AES into the PB... want to use OS 9 version of Spectra foo for some signal analysis. 


Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 03:57:25 PM »
A sure bet for U is the small Magma chassis for only one or two  3 PCI cards, one being a TDM Mix Core, and a 882 or 1622 Digi interface. It should be the smallest Magma rig for "portable" Audiosuite.

http://magma.com/products/classic-pci-expansion/3-slot-pci-expansion/

the best small TI PCMCIA road setup is:

...

I used this setup after MacWord 2000 when I traveled to some project studios that had Manhattan NY clients interested in Cubase VST/5.  It tracked and Mixed solid as a rock, ...

Jerry, BT is a Master using Logic with Protools Mix hardware mostly for its Audiosuite plugins.

Hey guys just saw this. Basically this yields a really unstable system (not to mention confusing with Direct I/O and output M/S l/R) configuring. I never had a stable system to do this on. What I did back in the day was run VST's on a seperate computer and had an autoload on both w/Midi and audio in/outs. This worked a treat. The whole draw to OS9 Logic 6.43 PT24 is not VST/VSTi it's destructive RTAS editing (premier too to a lesser extent). I use this system today, everyday.

If the goal is VST my recommend is set up a dedicated rig. Honestly there are such better softsynths now I'd do this on a modern computer (I do!). Again for me Logic 6.43/OS9 is the absolute sweet spot for destructive editing. Any computer system PC/Linux/Mac any OS and any DAW can't hold a candle to the speed and ease/joy of use on my OS9 rig for this!

Happy OS9ing!
_BT
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 04:24:34 PM »

I'm looking for something M-Box size that I have access to TDM/Audiosuite in Logic. I know it won't be uber-powerfull like my studio rig (blown out dual magma chassis PT/Logic rig) but it's something to use on the road.

It seems M-Audio made a bunch of interfaces that may accommodate this when they bought avid but this may be early OSX days. Would love you guys help on this! I'd like to make the most blown out, stable OS9 PT/Logic rig possible.


I was going to recommend an Audiomedia III or Digi 001 as a interface too (with a Magma chassis), but I think you can't access TDM/Audiosuite in Logic with any Protools LE interfaces. M-Box can't go below 256 samples (of Latency, round trip or whatever is called). But Digi 002 can. And you avoid carrying a Magma chassis choosing M-Box or Digi 002 . The 002 (not rack) is bigger than the smallest Magma chassis.  ???

I would make a Dual portable setup, with 2 G4 Powerbooks (you could use the 12" ALU 867 or the 17" ALU 1GHz also) One with Logic and a card that DieHard recommends and One with a Protools LE rig sending audio from one to another. The "Autoload" file on Protools LE would be just a pair of AUX with your favorite RTAS inserted. Maybe 60% of the Audiosuite work you make within Logic is LE compatible and/or RTAS. You would not work on "destructive" mode but on Protools LE as DSP.

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Offline mrhappy

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2017, 06:47:49 AM »
portable Logic Audio 6.43 (my fav)/Protools TDM/Audiosuite portable rig.

It seems like the TDM part of this setup is the stumbling block as you'll need a 'Core' card, which means a small chassis, and an interface that PT/TDM will recognize for the program to even run.

It seems like Logic is the workhorse program here so maybe PT Free? You wouldn't have the same integration but maybe you could figure out a work flow using RTAS/Audiosuite with the logic setup? You could get away with just a small MIDI interface and use the 'built in' if you need actual audio in?

PT Free is only 8 tracks and I'm not really sure what you're up to with the 'destructive' thing so it might not be suitable.

Offline DieHard

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2017, 10:20:11 AM »
Quote
Jerry, BT is a Master using Logic with Protools Mix hardware mostly for its Audiosuite plugins
.

Wow, read too fast... your right :)

Still, RME is still top notch for any "Native" setups, but thanks for the correction, ASIO 2 at very low latency with RME and converters sound so sweet

Offline SonikArchitects

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2017, 01:34:51 PM »
Hey all!

This is fantastic information and DieHard, thank you so much for the kind words. That was a tough record to make. Glad for the experience and glad it's done too, nearly killed me! Lots of OS9 love on that one too as I spent plenty of time digging through old OS9 sessions like Flaming June, Mercury and Solace, Satellite and Dreaming (to mention a few). Man my sessions were messy then, but I digress.

Okay so to clarify (and I should have been clearer), the dream here is to somehow use TDM plugins without an expansion chassis, core card etc. I never owned a Digi 001, or 002 before. Seems like an 001 may do the trick but I've never had a system like this. Also may not be possible.

Basically I'd like to be able to use TDM/Audiosuite with a Tia book with as little stuff attached as possible. That RME card looks amazing (I may even have one of those somewhere) but I don't need any inputs and outputs, just a way to use TDM/Audiosuite/RTAS on a super duper small remote rig.

Again, I've never tried to do this before. Do you guys know of a way to do this? The magma looks great too (I have a bunch of the bigger ones I still use) but not an option for this portable rig. Also tons of DSP power isn't a hangup. I don't need a bajillion plugins at once, this rig will mainly be used for sound design and destructive editing (i.e. my weird, proprietary style of time correcting and frequency/time domain specific eq'ing).

I could live with only Audiosuite IF this would work/show up in Logic. I don't want to use ProTools to do this. I was never very good at it and I can fly in Logic.

So basically the dream is Tia book, small interface (Digi 001, 002??) Logic audio and TDM/audiosuite plugins.

So appreciate the help guys. Also, please nominate someone for me to send about 1,000 CD's too for archival. Obviously I want all of them back so someone amongst you everyone knows and trusts. I've got all the serials as well. There is some WEIRD stuff in there you guys don't have in the software forum. Things that never came out as well.  ;D Thank you guys so much.

Best,
_BT

Offline SonikArchitects

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2017, 01:39:15 PM »
Check this out : "For the location recording, I wanted a portable system that would be light and compact but provide the highest audio fidelity possible," says Landau. He decided on a Digi 001 as the audio interface because of its size, high quality I/O, and onboard headphone amplifier. "I also needed to run Pro Tools and Logic Audio on the Survivor site and I knew that the Digi 001 could handle this."

To hook up the Digi 001 to his 500 MHz Apple Pismo PowerBook laptop, he got a Magma single-slot card bus PCI Expansion chassis. This compact PCI expansion chassis connects to his laptop via the PCM/CIA slot on the PowerBook. For power, says Landau, "The Magma chassis was run off a standard video battery belt." The laptop was powered by its onboard battery, and Landau had three backup batteries charged and ready to go.

"The whole system fit into two compact cases," says Landau. "I had my standard black soft case for the laptop, and a small aluminum briefcase for the Magma chassis with the Digi 001." To set up for recording, Landau says, "I just plugged a Sennheiser MD-441U microphone and some headphones directly into the front of the Digi 001-that was it." For monitoring, Landau used a Y-cable to split the single headphone feed on the Digi 001 into two stereo outputs.

So the question seems, 1. Have any of you done this? 2. Is it possible/hackable to do this without a single card PCMCIA/Magma dealio!

All my best,
_BT

Offline mrhappy

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2017, 09:49:44 PM »
TDM is still the problem... If there's no 'Core' card or recognizable interface, TDM won't open! 001 can use RTAS/ audiosuite but NOT TDM. WE have a version of OS9/002 here but it only works with the 002 control surface(mixer) I believe and not the rack unit.

001 uses a pci card ( why Landau needed a chassis).

We have a member here that worked for Digi at some point and he told us of how they debated about releasing a '5' version that didn't require their hardware but decided against it and so intentionally killed it!

There WAS a version pre PT5 that could run on a laptop without Digi hardware... forget what it was called right now... don't know if this would be suitable or not, as far as the audiosuite thing goes  though.

Offline mrhappy

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2017, 09:57:20 PM »
Just remembered... PowerMix... that worked in PT 4.32? Something like that! (sorry.. on my 3rd vodka!) ;D

Offline mrhappy

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2017, 10:08:18 PM »
Are there any specific TDM plugs that you NEED that won't work on Pt Free/ LE or is it mainly the integration of how they work with TDM/Logic?

Offline SonikArchitects

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2017, 05:47:45 PM »
I think I'm going to go for the Magma 3 slot unless anyone here can confirm the Digi002 using TDM (seems no)!

What do the ProTools free plugins run in? (TDM/RTAS/Audiosuite)?
All my best,
_BT

Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2017, 07:36:33 PM »

What do the ProTools free plugins run in? (TDM/RTAS/Audiosuite)?


Only RTAS and Audiosuites that are LE compatible. I mean, In Protools LE (I have 2 001, 1 AM-3 and a M-Box) I can't run a drawner compressor(TDM only), a Reverb-One, Aphex aural exciter , Amp Farm... but I can run McDSP MC-2000 or King of Loud Realverb, or Amplitube, just to name a few. Mostly, the plugs that are only TDM and Audiosuite, can't be found on a LE Audiosuite menu. Rare exceptions like the Arboretum plugs that can be run on an Audiomedia-III.

Reverse a track is inside Logic's Logic. D-Verb is PT Free compatible. What you cant do is run Audiosuite plugs within Logic with a LE system. But you can call PT-Free from Logic to Audiosuite within on a PT-Free, if you want to do so. At least in windows you can call an external app as wave editor.
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2017, 07:46:54 PM »
You could use Logic with a M-Box via the ASIO driver and also have PT-Free running with onboard audio.

If Logic can't call for PT-Free to "audiosuite" it, just import that audio in the PT-Free session, and Audiosuite it at your pleasure. Once you have finished, if the file retains the name, you simply exchange them. Probably your IT guy can write an Applescript that makes most of the work
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2017, 07:52:53 PM »
I think I'm going to go for the Magma 3 slot unless anyone here can confirm the Digi002 using TDM (seems no)!


IIRC there were Magma chassis for 1 or 2 cards also.

Some ADR tracking in Star Wars Episode One were recorded with a Pismo /Titanium and Magma with AM-III and 001.
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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2017, 08:07:28 PM »
Some snapshots of my Digi 001 setup.

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Offline Protools5LEGuy

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2017, 09:20:49 PM »
Just wanted to add a PT 5 Free/LE sessions that acts as a DSP only, using 2 mono AUX tracks with 2 mono to stereo (m/s) Renaissance verb and a Enigma, both from waves. You feed with In 1 the Verb and In 2 the Nigma. That session at 128 bits is just realtime FX with no tracking inside PT. You can only use RTAS (Real Time Audio Suite) plugs in this session/method.

As a guitarist, I always want the original take untouched (un-amped) to mix it with distorted ones (Amplitube/Warp/Nigel). The clean one help earring the pick and the distorted one is for the body (sub-midsub). I want to learn your method but to keep 2 signals and blend them.
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Offline MacTron

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2017, 07:18:33 AM »
... Also, please nominate someone for me to send about 1,000 CD's too for archival. Obviously I want all of them back so someone amongst you everyone knows and trusts. I've got all the serials as well. There is some WEIRD stuff in there you guys don't have in the software forum. Things that never came out as well.  ;D Thank you guys so much.

Thank you for your kindly offer. We have splitted this topic, to be discussed in our inner sections "The Vault Zone".

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3761.msg25102.html#msg25102

Only trusted members can acces to this topic.


Offline SonikArchitects

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Re: ProTools/Logic 6.43 Portable Rig/Tia Book
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2017, 03:23:57 PM »
WOW! Protools5LEGuy, can you use those audiosuite plugins in Logic?????? That would do it for me if yes. PLEASE POST PICTS IF THIS WORKS!

I just scored a 3slot magma for 150$ on Ebay. Next up trying to find a PCMCIA card to 68pin and connect these. I'd love an 001 if that will work though, it's smaller.

I saw the other thread about archivist. I've got so much stuff not listed on this site it's crazy honestly, especially in the sample CD area. That's about another 1,000 CD's.

Best,
_BT