Just got a Power Mac G4 !

[belzrebuth]

Hi all,
I've got a G4 at a thrift store almost for free as non working.
The problem was the power supply and I've replaced it with an ATX one.
Now it boots fine.
It's a 450mHz model with 1gb ram installed and it also has SCSI (db25 port so perfect for ZIP drives for my old samplers ) and 120gb hard disk (the disk doesn't look stock)
It runs OS 9.2.
Since it has plenty of the previous owner(s)' files I thought about restoring the OS installation and start from there.
I've already downloaded the 9.2.2 CD from the public downloads section.
Now my question is:

How should I go about restoring the installation?

I own two macs; a mbp with 10.6.8 and a powerbook G4 running 10.5 but both are not within reach until the rest of the week so I'm stuck with only Windows machines for now.

Should I wait until I have access on a mac to burn a bootable cd-rom or there is a way (say ultra iso ,power iso etc)  to make a bootable 9.2 cd with Windows?

Since I've never used 9.x OS I really had to answer!Maybe older machines are touchy about these things.

Also ,is there any 'easier/faster' way to restore the installation or I should somehow burn that CD and perform a clean install?
Thanks everyone.

[belzrebuth]

Oh and if there's any way to dual boot the system with panther/tiger and OS9 feel free to post a guide or something.
I really don't miss Tiger that much but I wouldn't mind a dual OS machine.
Getting OS 9.2 right would be my primary concern though..

[GaryN]

There are those who have managed to create a bootable CD-ROM for an old Mac on a Windoze machine.
There are far more who have tried and tried and tried and tried…and failed.

You own two Macs either one of which will make a bootable CD with NO trouble at all.

Patience is a virtue. A few days is only a few days.

[belzrebuth]

Τhanks Gary!
I'll probably wait a couple of days.
On a mac I don't think I've ever written anything besides audio disks with iTunes.
Should I install something like Toast Titanium?
Or even Disk Utility would do ?
I have an .iso image of 9.2.2

I also thought about getting an old DVD-R drive and install it on the power mac itself but from what I've read around it's not that simple.

Bad thing is that the previous owner among a pile of programs and files has also some Adobe software(photoshop,illustrator etc) installed that seems genuine and I'm probably going to lose those by reinstalling.

[GaryN]

You might want to give this a try:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2716.msg16520.html#msg16520

This is our reverend DieHard's "Instant DAW" download. It contain 9.2.2 and everything you need for a complete OS9 DAW inatsllation. It is focused on Cubase but you can certainly download any other DAW app you like as well. I recommend it because it includes Toast and other useful utilities and it's as close to instant gratification as you can get. With your 120Gb disk, you don't have a space problem.

What I would NOT be inclined to do in your case is dual-boot the machine. At 450Mhz, later versions of OSX will run like molasses and you have other more OSX-capable machine to use. Not to say you absolutely shouldn't, but if you really want to dual-boot, install OSX first, then partition the HDD and keep the OS9 install separated. I addressed this here:

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3424.msg23551.html#msg23551

Enjoy!

[MacOS Plus]

  Get another hard drive to fresh install to so you don't have to blow away the original drive.  You'll find it extremely helpful to have two different boot drives available so you always will have something that boots if one gets messed up or you want to defrag one.  There's no point in losing all the original files, plus it's a hell of a lot easier to troubleshoot your new install if you have a known-working boot drive to fall back on.  The last thing I would do if it were me is trash the existing boot drive.  Only do that if you truly can't afford an extra hard drive.  You'll likely thank me later.

[belzrebuth]

@MacOS Plus I have an older ata drive so I'll try it when I get home.

BTW Is the m-audio audiophile 2496 compatible with OS 9.2?

I may have found one for about 20€ (21$) so I'm thinking to get it just for the power mac.

I'd like to have midi out for starters until I find a Unitor mkII .(I actually have one but it's in my main rig so I won't be messing with it)

My plan is to get this mac running some midi modules ;their audio outs going to a mixer and the master going back from the mixer to the mac to get recorded.

Pretty simple just to get the hang of it and I'll go from there.

I think the 2496 might be up to the task although I've never used it and never used os 9 so I don't know if the play well together if at all.
I've seen some posts on the forum about it so I thought it might be a safe choice and easy on the wallet too.

Should I be looking for something else or the m-audio will be fine?
I don't know what DAW I'll be using.
In my main rig I use Ableton 9 and I also have an ATARI STF running an ancient version of Cubase but I don't use it much.

I've never used Logic or Cubase.But If I had to choose I'd probably go with Cubase.

For audio interface rack MOTU units like the 2408 might be the best deal as far as number of I/Os is concerned but they are still expensive (even the older FW models) and I wouldn't want to spend much untill I'm certain I'm going to actually use the G4 for something.

@Gary N  I'm downloading now!Plenty of stuff to get me started.Thanks:)

[belzrebuth]

I wonder if the m-audio will be compatible with my G4 since it has two "cuts" on the PCI connector.

EDIT:I found relevant  info in this thread but it's a bit unclear to me if the two notches on a PCI card make it G5 and G4 compatible or only G5 compatible.
I read on wikipedia that these notches indicate that the card can work on 3.3V and 5V PCI slots so I may be good to go for a G4 machine.

[MacOS Plus]

  Dual-notch PCI cards work in pretty much anything.  It's some of the single-notch cards that won't play nice with the G4, but usually for reasons completely unrelated to voltage.  With Macs it's generally a 'try-it-and-see' situation with compatibility.  You can at least be assured it's virtually impossible to cause any physical damage - either it will work or it won't.

  One thing I do remember related to PCI voltages is that some expansion chassis don't have 3.3 volts provided by the power supply even though some cards will fail to operate without it.  In my two SBS chassis, one has a 5-volt-only supply and the other has a fully-capable supply with 5 and 3.3-volts.  The only difference is the power supply because both backplane boards have the input connectors present.  If a dual-notch PCI won't work in a chassis with a 5-volt-only power supply you should still be able to install it directly in the G4 instead.  Check your chassis first to be sure of whether or not you even have to worry about this consideration.

  BTW, which model G4 is it you have?  I'm guessing it's a first-generation AGP graphics model aka Sawtooth.  If you end up with any other hardware questions I'll know better how to advise you if I know that because each model has its own little 'quirks' and OS/extension requirements.

[belzrebuth]

My model is the Gigabit Ethernet (I attached a picture with its specs below)
Currently I have 1gb of ram,120g hard disk and a psu from a pc so no 28V for ADC and that sums all the differences from a stock model.
So,
Should I buy this card or I'm going to face problems with drivers etc?
I read a lot of horror stories on the net about the audiophile 2496 and drivers for 1.4 and 1.5 OSX but I've not found much about 9.2.2 that I'm planning to use it for.
On this forum member Diehard (from what I've read) highly regards this model concerning its price/sound quality ratio but I'm not really sure if it will play well with my system.
Do you have any experience with it and my model or similar?

[belzrebuth]

If a dual-notch PCI won't work in a chassis with a 5-volt-only power supply you should still be able to install it directly in the G4 instead.  Check your chassis first to be sure of whether or not you even have to worry about this consideration.

What do you mean by "chassis" and "install it directly in the G4"?
Should I check voltages on the PCI slots themselves while the machine is on?
I think the power mac G4 has 33MHz 64bit PCI slots that correspond to the "5V" illustration of the attached picture.


edit:I added a picture of my actual PCI slots for direct comparison.

[MacOS Plus]

  My only experience with M-audio has been with a USB interface model on Windows, and it was hopeless for recording because of a driver issue that would drop samples at random which was never corrected by them.  I will leave it to others to comment on the Audiophile 2496.

  The PCI audio hardware I have is from MOTU, Digidesign, and Sonic Solutions.  The 'chassis' I mentioned wouldn't be an issue for you right now because you don't have a PCI expansion chassis for enlarging your system.  I only brought it up because of the voltage and compatibility questions and should you choose to buy an expander later.  Your computer itself has all needed voltages present in the internal slots.  Sorry if I was unclear.

[belzrebuth]

Okay thanks for clarifying what you've meant by chassis.

I guess I'll wait for someone to chime in about the 2496 before buying it.

I don't want to take any chances and buy a lemon.

I've only used RME, Focusrite, Apogee and EMU interfaces with no problems on macs and windows.
Never tried any M-audio stuff but this particular model is very cheap so that alone would make it a good candidate for my G4 but I really don't want to mess with weird configurations,different driver versions testing etc to make it work.

I like simple and functional and I'm still using a RME FF400 with a Focusrite Octopre MKII ; everything runs great from day one on a 10.6.8 machine.

[GaryN]

I guess I'll wait for someone to chime in about the 2496 before buying it.

Actually, if you read the download page for the "Instant DAW" I was referring to above, you'll see that it is already set up for the PCI 2496.

It will work.

[belzrebuth]

Yes that's why I searched for that particular model.
But I always try to triple check for potential issues before buying.
Thanks for your help so far!

[belzrebuth]

So ,I put a second hard drive in there and made a clean restore from DIehard's plain 9.2.2 image and then also restored my original hard drive using the other hard drive as startup.

Now the original hard drive is clean and restored although I lost all the nice Adobe Programs (photoshop 7,illustrator etc) and Microsoft Office 98 for Mac!

If anyone know of a place I could find these I'd be grateful.

I also spoke to the person selling the audiophile 2496 and he'll be sending it to me within the week.

The power mac is pretty responsive and the boot and shutdown times are impressive (almost instant shutdown and very fast cold boot)

Sleep also works with the ATX power supply.

My other goal is to max out the ram from 1GB to 2GB although I somewhere read that only 1.5GB is usable on 9.2.2.
Fortunately 2 x 512MB are installed so no ram swapping ;just need to find another pair of 512 dimms.

I also intend to install 10.4 on another drive just to see how it runs on a G4.
My powerbook is running 10.5 since 10.5 came out so I can't really remember how good or bad 10.4 was..

EDIT:Is it possible to install a DVD-R drive on the G4?
Mine is only DVD-ROM playback-only.

I think I have some dvd-r or dvd-rw drives lying here somewhere but will anything be compatible or I need some kind of special or period correct drive?

[GaryN]

Now the original hard drive is clean and restored although I lost all the nice Adobe Programs (photoshop 7,illustrator etc) and Microsoft Office 98 for Mac!
If anyone know of a place I could find these I'd be grateful.

All of that stuff can be found at Macintosh Garden.
Anything that's not there is probably at Macintoshrepository.org

My other goal is to max out the ram from 1GB to 2GB although I somewhere read that only 1.5GB is usable on 9.2.2.

That is true but if you boot OSX you'll want it to be there.

I also intend to install 10.4 on another drive just to see how it runs on a G4.
My powerbook is running 10.5 since 10.5 came out so I can't really remember how good or bad 10.4 was..

10.4 is as far as you want to go at 450Mhz. 10.5 will run veeeeeery slowly.

IMPORTANT!

If you boot 10.4 or 10.5 on your machine, READ THIS FIRST

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3424.msg23551.html#msg23551

Trust me on this! It will save you a LOT of aggravation and save me from having to explain it all over again.

EDIT:Is it possible to install a DVD-R drive on the G4?
Mine is only DVD-ROM playback-only.
I think I have some dvd-r or dvd-rw drives lying here somewhere but will anything be compatible or I need some kind of special or period correct drive?

Many will work - others not so much. There's a lot of help re this at http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/

[belzrebuth]

Wouldn't it be easier to have the two operating systems (10.4 ,9.2) on separate hard drives?

I could try dual-booting on a single disk but with two disks if I decide I don't really need 10.4 I could always remove that one disk and be left with the other.
I'll try things and report back.

Need to check my pile of optical drives for a compatible dvd-r one or just try them all and see.

Thanks for your suggestions GaryN.

I'll post back with any updates.

[IIO]

you dont have to, but booting from different volumes (or disks) has advantages.

however, you dont haveb to decide this now, you can just move the OS9 folder around later.

[s0s]

Congratulations on getting your Power Mac G4! I wouldn't try to measure voltages when the machine is on. The chance of short-circuiting something is too high, even for experienced electronics hobbyists. Just try it and see. Like you found, voltage levels can be found on the internet.

What I don't get is why people insist on keeping the files on the hd. I would just go ahead and format it and install a fresh copy of 9.2.2. You won't have to defrag it for a while, anyway, and when you do you have other Macs you can use until it finishes. For me, keeping existing software would bother me, since it isn't "mine". And you can always DL the software yourself.