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[oldtimer]

[I see no different stuff from Macintosh Garden. Last time I checked were even less content. But please enlighteen me.

That's because they crawled all of Macintosh Garden, took the files, screenshots and file info the users of Macintosh Garden contributed with and started Macintosh Repository. Nowadays at least the file info from the Garden is gone, but the screenshots are still there.

What a weasel. I will do my "shopping" at the Macintosh Garden, NOT at the Macintosh Repository.

[devils_advisor]

the key is they do not credit/mention at least the source. very disappointing. taking is one thing but not even mention who and where from is another one.

[macStuff]

re:macintosh repository site;
ben + alex are good people.. trying to do what they can,
i met them on their sites chat room,  they have helped me find a few rare things i was after
so i am in their debt for their assistance..

maybe they did start out their site by cloning alot of the content from the macintosh garden..
they do have alot of the same content it is true; but for me personally;
i have found that they are actively working to add things that are not included on the garden.
re: "payments" i never even bothered to take notice of that but it looks like donations are voluntary, not a requirement,
similar to the way that diehard asked for donations, if they helped you out and you feel so inclined..  i think theres nothing
wrong with leaving the door open to donations, some people really do want to reciprocate and feel that its the right thing for them to do
when they have been helped after struggling to figure something out or find certain abandonware they were searching for etc..
i know that i have done that on many occasions to others who have helped me track down rare items, cant help it when im happy! i like to pay my debts!
paying it forward! keeps things rolling

i think its immature to take offense to "the cloning of the garden" i mean anything that is public domain, can be duplicated + reposted by anyone, if anything vintage mac users should be glad that we have a redundancy in place
garden vs repository, if one is down, (as was the case just this week? when garden was moved + taken offline for some time?) + the other is still up...



the garden has its own fair share of amazing contributors aswell
there is more than enough room on the internet for more than one vintage mac abandonware site.

the topic of this thread re: gloryhole https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=glory%20hole is far far more unneccessary
+ offensive then the macintoshgarden being cloned im sure there are some women users here that would not appreciate reading that

[devils_advisor]

listen cloning the material they buy at yard sales and on amazon or ebay, craigslist just to name a few is one thing. taking somebodys pictures along with it and the very same description is another. how do you like it your work is claimed by somebody else? please dont complain if that happens to you just keep it rolling and pay up.

[GaryN]

re:macintosh repository site;
ben + alex are good people.. trying to do what they can,
i met them on their sites chat room,  they have helped me find a few rare things i was after
so i am in their debt for their assistance..

maybe they did start out their site by cloning alot of the content from the macintosh garden..
they do have alot of the same content it is true; but for me personally;
i have found that they are actively working to add things that are not included on the garden.
re: "payments" i never even bothered to take notice of that but it looks like donations are voluntary, not a requirement,
similar to the way that diehard asked for donations, if they helped you out and you feel so inclined..  i think theres nothing
wrong with leaving the door open to donations, some people really do want to reciprocate and feel that its the right thing for them to do
when they have been helped after struggling to figure something out or find certain abandonware they were searching for etc..
i know that i have done that on many occasions to others who have helped me track down rare items, cant help it when im happy! i like to pay my debts!
paying it forward! keeps things rolling

i think its immature to take offense to "the cloning of the garden" i mean anything that is public domain, can be duplicated + reposted by anyone, if anything vintage mac users should be glad that we have a redundancy in place
garden vs repository, if one is down, (as was the case just this week? when garden was moved + taken offline for some time?) + the other is still up...

the garden has its own fair share of amazing contributors aswell
there is more than enough room on the internet for more than one vintage mac abandonware site.

Damn! Just when I was starting to warm to this a little bit, thinking: "hmmm…agree or not, for once he's actually making a cogent argument in a rational manner without firing on anybody… there's still hope"

And then you just couldn't help yourself, could you? You had to:

the topic of this thread re: gloryhole https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=glory%20hole is far far more unneccessary
+ offensive then the macintoshgarden being cloned im sure there are some women users here that would not appreciate reading that

I made a one-line reference to the Repository site in April of friggin' 2016. It was read over 1400 times and just sat there for almost two years apparently without offending anybody until you, yes you decided to expand upon it. Still, all was well until Knez, who has put more sweat and effort into the Garden than you'll ever realize, noted that much of his hard work was being appropriated wholesale without credit.

Everybody on the internet indulges in some degree of content appropriation - even especially you. Every time you copy and paste something from somewhere else, you're appropriating someone else's labor for free. There's fine line between fair use and plagiarism and it looks very different from the other side of that line. Cat pictures or screenshots of catalog pages, it's all very similar.

You were doing great man, holding up the other side of what was a mannered philosophical debate but you just had to finish with a cheap shot and declare yourself the champion of women and stand up for them like you're a charter member of the #MeToo club…
You know it takes two persons to operate a "glory hole" and one of them is usually (not always, but usually) a female. That requires that both participants are willing and so neither gender should be offended by seeing the term in print on the friggin' internet. There is absolutely no reason for women to be "more offended" by it. One reason the term came to mind when I posted it was because back then, the site seemed pretty anonymous and looked as though it could easily disappear as suddenly as it appeared - you point your browser at it, one day there's content there and the next time there isn't…

So don't try to muddy this any more with cheap shots. Nobody is offended by the term "glory hole" except…hmmm…wait…OMG!

You haven't gone evangelical on us, have you?

[macStuff]

gary;
*facepalm*
the point in saying the title is more offensive was only to downplay the rallying hate displayed above towards an actually usefull download resource; saying ok guys relax.. the title is more offensive then that.. to put things in perspective + size context

re: your topic title; the word gloryhole instantly brings to mind a sexual pornographic act; i dont use that word in my day to day vocabulary for that reason alone, maybe u should consider that aswell; alot of women that have been sexually assaulted or abused would find it incredibly offensive.. just because noone took the time to type anything doesnt mean they didnt find it offensive. maybe if you had a girlfriend reading over YOUR shoulder when you are on your laptop you might see my point

thanks for the history lesson re: the macintosh garden;
i was involved in the community on that site long before knez stepped up to take care of hosting;
but i can easily say that both the sites (m9lives.com + garden) are definately alot more dependable and downloads are faster since..   yes; the garden was around long before the other site... in fact if the garden hadnt of existed ; this site + alot of the content here would not exist; the mere existance of the garden was what got me inspired + reminiscing on old software back in 2013; then i found a smaller site with about 35 users that was focused on audio processing software;

the garden is obviously the predecessor + original (with a more creative name);
and the repository is nowhere near as old; but they do have some content that mac garden does not have (as of yet)
in my mind theres no reason to discredit + incriminate;

its unfortunate , but easy to observe that people often try to rally others into hating someone or something; but the majority can easily choose to sidestep that; see past the bulls*** and move past without being tainted by resentment + bitterness

take care
happy new year

[Naiw]

To be honest, I think these flame wars really kills the retro community.

Who cares if site X uses screenshots (or even binaries of site Y) it's not like copyright laws are respected by either site... Cause really if the software publishers were to write either of the site and claim their works they would be gone- but as long as no one does (and there are of course cases where there is no clear owner of the intellectual property anylonger either) but abandoware is legally a gray area and it has not been tested a lot either as far as I know.

That old software spreads to more servers is a positive thing, who knows, tomorrow macintoshgarden or macintosh repository may be gone, isn't it a good thing if the content is mirrored on another site then?

[dr bu]

Gloria. In Excelsis Deo.

[Knezzen]

To be honest, I think these flame wars really kills the retro community.

Who cares if site X uses screenshots (or even binaries of site Y) it's not like copyright laws are respected by either site... Cause really if the software publishers were to write either of the site and claim their works they would be gone- but as long as no one does (and there are of course cases where there is no clear owner of the intellectual property anylonger either) but abandoware is legally a gray area and it has not been tested a lot either as far as I know.

That old software spreads to more servers is a positive thing, who knows, tomorrow macintoshgarden or macintosh repository may be gone, isn't it a good thing if the content is mirrored on another site then?

The problem is not really the software as such (because like you're saying, is in a gray area and not "ours" in the first place), more in the way everything happened. They could have just asked instead of setting up scripts to crawl the whole site. Making uploads and downloads slow for people actually contributing and using it. We actually have an FTP server on another physical site syncing files from the website every night, free for anyone to download everything there is from the site file wise without hogging the main bandwidth. And to mirror and whatnot.

I'm not angry and I'm not bitter. I just wanted to state that this "mirror" of Macintosh Garden as it's sometimes referred to started it's life by taking files, descriptions, screenshots and all uploads from Macintosh Garden and calling it their own.

If someone was to do the same thing to this site, I'm sure the contributors here would get a bit upset. And rightly so.

[macStuff]

when u make something available publically.. its available to EVERYONE. and you have no control over what they are going to do with it... much in the same way u dont have any control over what someone does with a birthday gift you give them, they could misuse it.. sell it.. give it away.. you (meaning ANYONE) cant do anything about that.. that is the nature of giving a gift.

[MacNewbie]

Sorry to be a nerd, but the term "glory hole" is originally from glass making, it is referencing a very very hot furnace used by the glassmaker to shape and craft his work.

Have a look:  http://www.denverglass.com/glory.html

[torvan]

I would also have to add, that in the Gay American vernacular, "Glory Hole" has an even different meaning that described above. It is more or less a hole in a partition or wall that one guy puts his "ahem" in and there is a receptive male on the other end.

The first thing I thought of was that meaning, not any other. Makes kinda sense in that sort of way though---the Garden put their stuff up, the Repository then received it.

[GaryN]

I would also have to add, that in the Gay American vernacular, "Glory Hole" has an even different meaning that described above. It is more or less a hole in a partition or wall that one guy puts his "ahem" in and there is a receptive male on the other end.

The first thing I thought of was that meaning, not any other. Makes kinda sense in that sort of way though---the Garden put their stuff up, the Repository then received it.

I think the term pre-dates any adoption by the gay community. The concept works equally well either heterosexually or homosexually.

I used the term to refer to the exploration of a previously undiscovered place yielding a pleasurable result

Now, had I suspected that so many would be so easily aroused by a simple metaphor, I would have chosen a different attention-attracting word.
If the kids can't stop this obsessing over it, I'm just going to ask the boss to delete the entire damn topic. I posted it two whole years ago and it's no longer "undiscovered territory" anyway.