Author Topic: powermac g4 CPU Upgrades  (Read 69846 times)

supernova777

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powermac g4 CPU Upgrades
« on: November 16, 2013, 05:57:12 AM »
Archived copy of ppc mac upgrade cpus on everymac: (web archive links tend to be slow  :o)
http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/
http://web.archive.org/web/20061201152704/http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/index.html
by manufacturer:
http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/by_manufacturer/
by processor:
http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/by_processor/powerpc7400.html
by system:
http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/by_system/

heres the link for powerpc g4 74** upgrades
>>>>> http://web.archive.org/web/20061111091700/http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/by_processor/powerpc7400.html

ALL SONNET UPGRADES:
http://www.sonnettech.com/support/kb/kb.php?cat=120#position_content



http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=g4+upgrade+%28processor%2C+newer%2C+powerlogix%2C+OWC%2C+sonnet%2C+encore%29+-microsoft+-intel+-hp+-amd+-samsung&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xg4+upgrade+%28processor%2C+newer+technology%2C+powerlogix%2C+OWC%2C+sonnet+encore%29+-micro.TRS0&_nkw=g4+upgrade+%28processor%2C+newer+technology%2C+powerlogix%2C+OWC%2C+sonnet+encore%29+-microsoft+-intel+-hp+-amd+-samsung&_sacat=0

check the link above to browse listings on ebay for upgraded processors up to dual 1.8ghz g4 i believe !

DUAL:

http://www.imagebam.com/image/fc6c3c290206637

pdf: http://web.archive.org/web/20051219042501im_/http://www.sonnettech.com/publicfiles/pdfs/pdf_datasheets/duet_datasheet.pdf
keep in mind theres some type of app u have to run to check to see if your g4 motherboard will support a dual processor upgrade or not
this would be visible on the box if the pic was larger

SINGLE:

http://www.imagebam.com/image/20bd18290206638

pdf: http://web.archive.org/web/20051221062456im_/http://www.sonnettech.com/publicfiles/pdfs/pdf_datasheets/encore_stg4_datasheet.pdf

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sonnet-Encore-ST-G4-PowerPC-1-GHz-1000-2M-CPU-for-Apple-Mac-/271320297018?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 01:47:15 PM by chrisNova777 »

Knez

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2013, 02:12:37 PM »
The Sonnet Dual G4's are a bad option for a MDD or FW800 G4. The Sonnet CPU's simply lacks L3 cache (and has less L2 cache than Apples CPUs) which makes for instance the dual 1.8ghz slower than a dual 1.42ghz G4 when doing CPU intensive tasks that uses alot of FPU power (using VSTi's, RTAS, rendering audio files etc).

I have an "original" Dual 1.25ghz board overclocked to 1.5ghz in my MDD. Have worked great the past two years I'v had it, even during the warmest summer days.

Go buy yourself a $50 original Dual 1.25ghz board and overclock it. It's the fastest and cheapest way to maximize the power of your MDD ;)


Offline MacTron

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2013, 02:50:32 PM »
The Sonnet CPU's simply lacks L3 cache (and has less L2 cache than Apples CPUs) which makes for instance the dual 1.8ghz slower than a dual 1.42ghz G4 when doing CPU intensive tasks that uses alot of FPU power (using VSTi's, RTAS, rendering audio files etc).
The sonnet Dual 1.8 is faster than any [email protected]. I'd tested my [email protected] against Sonnet Dual 1.8 upgraded MDD of a friend of mine and the Sonnet was always faster. The things only become more equal when I'd overclocked mi MDD to 1.66. But the [email protected] is unstable, at least in summertime :(

I have an "original" Dual 1.25ghz board overclocked to 1.5ghz in my MDD. Have worked great the past two years I'v had it, even during the warmest summer days.
I have a 1.25 (beige ring chip) overclocked to 1.5 working hard since 2005 without any problems too. But I have another 1.25 that can't pass 1.42 (grey ring chip). I also have another 1.25 with grey ring chip to test −when I have time− if the color of the "chip ring  " has something  to do with oveclock ability.
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Knez

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2013, 02:57:22 PM »
That's strange. We benchmarked my friends 1.6ghz G4 against my dual 1.5ghz and mine allways came out faster.
What did you use to benchmark it? I just assumed that the 1.8ghz was a bit crap too :P

supernova777

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2013, 03:54:16 PM »
perhaps one of you guys can do a thread for us on overclocking the mdd?
i have a dual 867 mdd... is it possible to do a safe overclock on it?

and re: The Sonnet Dual G4's are a bad option for a MDD or FW800 G4.
i think you are right thats probably why they dont list compatibility with these models on the front of the box
aiming the product at the lower g4s instead
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 01:34:13 PM by chris9Lives »

supernova777

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2013, 04:46:27 PM »
The sonnet Dual 1.8 is faster than any [email protected]. I'd tested my [email protected] against Sonnet Dual 1.8 upgraded MDD of a friend of mine and the Sonnet was always faster. The things only become more equal when I'd overclocked mi MDD to 1.66. But the [email protected] is unstable, at least in summertime :(

the sonnet duet is a 7447A chip right i think??
7447A cames after 7455 i think?

Offline DieHard

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2013, 11:31:45 PM »
Wow... I never noticed the "color" ring theory... I will look at all my MDDs (5 total) to check that out...

From personal experience, I spent many a late night up trying to hunt down some small Application issue or system instability due to 3rd party CPU upgrades...

I am now older and less bold, so I stick to stock apple CPUs only... I also agree that CPU cache is the key with audio apps & VSTis... bench a 733 QS against a 733 DA and the DA
will run circles around the Quicksilver... A Quicksilver 933 is the best (with no mods) when you compare the "Acoustic Noise to Power" ratio.  The MDD (if quieted down enough to be is the same room as a microphone) is still by far, my favorite  ;D

Back in the day, I setup many dual processor G4 systems for Video and graphic artists with awesome results, but as far as DAWs go, they seem to be more stable on single CPU G4s....please let me know if you guys have had luck with Cubase or PT being very stable on a Dual G4, and if so...what config ? (cause I tried many)

supernova777

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2013, 01:27:31 AM »
The Sonnet CPU's simply lacks L3 cache (and has less L2 cache than Apples CPUs)
are you sure? review the info posted here re: L2 + L3 cache, its an image screengrab of the pdf also linked now:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/20bd18290206638

Knez

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 06:38:46 AM »
If you look at that PDF at the bottom left you see what I mean. The high-end CPU's  (1.8ghz single and dual) only have L2 cache, which is 512kb.
The Apple CPU's have 256kb L2 and 2mb L3 cache, this makes a HUGE difference when doing for instance FPU intensive tasks.

Hence the Dual 1.5ghz (overclocked 1.25ghz) being the over all winner in speed and in price.

EDIT:
MacTron, what did you use to benchmark the machines?

Here's a selection of my benchmarking of my computers running Geekbench 2 (OSX):
http://browser.primatelabs.com/user/32648

What I know, theres not one benchmarking app for OS9 that benchmarks accuratly.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 06:46:53 AM by Knez »

Offline MacTron

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2013, 12:36:50 PM »
Here we have the table with the results of the test "Cinebench 2003"

[email protected][email protected]
Rendering (Single CPU): 1631583.16%
Rendering (Multiple CPU):3092974.04%
Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 181190-4.74%
Shading (OpenGL Software) : 473494-4.25%
Shading (OpenGL Hardware) :474511-7.24%

The test was done in two MDD with Mac os 9.22. One with sonnet [email protected] dual and the other with [email protected] Dual overclocked to 1.66.

The [email protected]  win against the [email protected] the "Rendering (single CPU)" test by a short 3.16 %. If 7455 are overclocked  at 1.5, the [email protected]  win by 15%.
So in a MDD the sonnet [email protected] is comparable to a [email protected] and faster than a [email protected] and of course even more faster than a [email protected].
If the diffence in speed worth the price of the sonnet, is other business.
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Offline MacTron

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2013, 02:13:37 PM »

yeah u would think they dropped the L3 cache because they noticed that it wasnt making that much of a difference..

I don't know for sure, but removing L3 cach
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supernova777

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2013, 02:19:48 PM »
http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/sonnettech/encore_g4/encore_st_g4_1.2.html

i have an opportunity to grab this for 30$ and the bonus is it comes inside a whole new sawtooth hehehe
its got 256kb / 2mb cache so it should def be a huge improvement over 450mhz with 0kb L2 /1mb L3

 ;D

heres the list of other sonnet chips that were made:
http://www.everymac.com/upgrade_cards/sonnettech/

Offline MacTron

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2013, 01:17:10 PM »
Wow... I never noticed the "color" ring theory... I will look at all my MDDs (5 total) to check that out...
Well, I'm not sure... but I have overclocked three single 1.25 CPU's, two of them achieve easily 1.5 Ghz and have both "gray ring" and the other one only hardly achieve 1.42 Ghz and have the "beige ring".
May be casual, but I think that the ring color has something to do with it. May be the gray ones were better series...
I have attached two pictures to better explain what grey and beige rings mean.
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Offline DieHard

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Hmmm... Arctic Silver Leakage...
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2013, 08:36:17 PM »

I could be wrong, but I think your "Gray ring" version is simple a sloppy Arctic Silver job by Apple (or done later)... the beige ring is probably how they all looked at one time

I have personally seen this on many g4s and it is actually a real problem since the over application of Arctic Silver (which is conductive by the way) gets under the clear coating that surrounds the CPU on the daughter board and is now impossible to get out... too much conductive paste can kill the CPU if it spreads under the film to a large area... so the rule of thumb is to apply a very small amount that will spread just cover the CPU and not over-flow and to use the new high-tech non-condutive versions...

See Japmacs approach here...

http://www.jcsenterprises.com/Japamacs_Page/Blog/9AE7FE0E-0CF2-4A7C-8003-489B282582BC.html

Offline MacTron

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Re: Hmmm... Arctic Silver Leakage...
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2013, 08:23:42 AM »

I could be wrong, but I think your "Gray ring" version is simple a sloppy Arctic Silver job by Apple (or done later)... the beige ring is probably how they all looked at one time

I have personally seen this on many g4s and it is actually a real problem since the over application of Arctic Silver (which is conductive by the way) gets under the clear coating that surrounds the CPU on the daughter board and is now impossible to get out... too much conductive paste can kill the CPU if it spreads under the film to a large area... so the rule of thumb is to apply a very small amount that will spread just cover the CPU and not over-flow and to use the new high-tech non-condutive versions...

See Japmacs approach here...

http://www.jcsenterprises.com/Japamacs_Page/Blog/9AE7FE0E-0CF2-4A7C-8003-489B282582BC.html

The ring color remains after a careful thermal compound removal, even in those areas and below capacitors protected with transparent plastic.
I will attach a better picture when I can.
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Offline DieHard

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2013, 01:24:01 PM »
Wow...we have to look into this ring thing... maybe there are 2 different revs of the CPU daughter boards and one overclocks better

Offline MacTron

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Re: CPU Upgrades
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2013, 03:58:34 PM »
Wow...we have to look into this ring thing... maybe there are 2 different revs of the CPU daughter boards and one overclocks better
That's my theory. But I'm not sure −of course− I've tested it only in three 1.25 single.
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supernova777

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Re: powermac g4 CPU Upgrades
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2014, 10:03:57 PM »
i think what was missed here is that there are many different versions of the encore ST duet .. because i see this one on ebay and it has a different box design etc:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-G4-1-8-GHZ-UPGRADE-/251425662240?pt=CPUs&hash=item3a8a232520



compared this with:


supernova777

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Re: powermac g4 CPU Upgrades
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2014, 10:48:55 AM »
http://solitudo.net/hardware/manuals/encore_stg4_datasheet.pdf

heres the data sheet on the 1.2ghz cpu i hope to  be getting for nearly free..

from what i understand this cpu provides a geekbench score of 614.. in a sawtooth.. running at 100mhz fsb
which means it could probably perform alot faster in a 133mhz digital audio or qs

note the cache chart which indicates that the sonnet cpus all feature 2MB L3 up till the 1.4ghz model
and then afterwards on the 1.6ghz + 1.8ghz models the L3 is omitted but the L2 is bumped up to 512kb (double that of any stock apple cpu?)
perhaps in sonnets opinion... the performance gain of 512kb L2 makes 2MB L3 redundant?? ..  i think we've discussed this before tho;)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 11:05:53 AM by chrisNova777 »

supernova777

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Re: powermac g4 CPU Upgrades
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2014, 09:41:19 AM »
G-Celerator G4/1.3 Dual AGP/100 (5D-1213G) Specs
Giga Designs G-Celerator Dual
   
The Giga Designs G-Celerator G4/1.3 Dual AGP/100 features dual 1.3 GHz PowerPC 7455 (G4) processors (1.2 GHz overclocked to 1.3 GHz) each with AltiVec "Velocity Engine" vector processing units, 256k on-chip level 2 caches, and 2 MB backside level 3 caches. The card plugs into the processor socket provided by AGP-based, 100 MHz bus models in the Power Macintosh G4 series, replacing the original processor card. All upgrade cards in this series are designed so that both the bus and backside cache ratios can be adjusted.
   

G-Celerator G4/1.2 Dual AGP/133 (5D-1212Q) Specs
Giga Designs G-Celerator Dual
   
The Giga Designs G-Celerator G4/1.2 Dual AGP/133 features dual 1.2 GHz PowerPC 7455 (G4) processors (1.0 GHz overclocked to 1.2 GHz) each with AltiVec "Velocity Engine" vector processing units, 256k on-chip level 2 caches, and 2 MB backside level 3 caches. The card plugs into the processor socket provided by AGP-based, 133 MHz bus models in the Power Macintosh G4 series, replacing the original processor card. All upgrade cards in this series are designed so that both the bus and backside cache ratios can be adjusted.
   

« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 09:45:50 AM by chrisNova777 »