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Author Topic: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide  (Read 77420 times)

Raptor007

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Sonnet G4 Upgrade Success
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2018, 12:28:34 AM »

I have another update for my 9600 CPU upgrade saga.  I saw a Sonnet G4 450MHz/1MB upgrade on eBay and decided to go for it.  I swapped CPUs, held the Cuda reset (red button) for 60 seconds, waited 10 minutes, then plugged it back in.  Unlike my previous G3 that usually requires me to cmd-crtl-power after 30 seconds or so, this one booted right away (probably because it's the first time I've done a Cuda reset).

Keep in mind I'm still using the ROM Fixer extension, which I highly recommend for any Old World Mac with a G3 or G4 upgrade.  At first I booted without any Sonnet driver, and the system was stable but had no access to its 1MB L2 cache.  Then I installed the Sonnet 2.3.1 driver, but found instability when copying files or playing MechWarrior 2, and saw in "Gauge PRO" that the Sonnet extension had re-enabled speculative access.  To solve this, I booted up without the Sonnet Processor Upgrade extension (so the system would be stable), made a copy of ROM Fixer called " zzz ROM Fixer" so it would load immediately after " Sonnet Processor Upgrade", and used ResEdit to change its type from "scri" to "INIT" so it wouldn't load before other INITs.  Then I re-enabled the Sonnet extension.  Success!  ROM Fixer now loads once at the very beginning, and again immediately after the Sonnet extension to re-disable speculative access.  The system is now fast (cache works) and stable (no speculative access).

Edit:  First I did this with System 7.6.1, and it worked great.  When I got to OS 9.2.2 (os9helper), I had unfortunately changed too many variables at once.  Last week I installed a Radeon 7000 with the ATI 2005 drivers and didn't test it much before the G4 upgrade arrived.  Today when I switched to 9.2.2, I had frequent lockups if the ATI drivers were loaded.  This was also true with a Radeon 9200LE.  I put back the Voodoo3 3000 with 3Dfx 1.1.3b drivers, and the system is rock solid again (using the Sonnet extension and double ROM Fixer).  I guess this machine doesn't like ATI Radeon drivers, which doesn't surprise me too much after my Umax C600 rejected the Rage128 similarly.  I don't think the G4 was to blame.

Let me tell you, System 7.6.1 on a G4 with an SSD is glorious.  I love that I can do that on this machine.  Folders open fully rendered as you're finishing your second click, and that's without any 2D acceleration from the video card.  I just wish I could trick the 3dfx drivers into loading in System 7.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 04:16:29 AM by Raptor007 »
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Currently Have: 128K on 3.2, 512Ke 2MB on 6.0.8, Performa 575 on 7.6.1, PowerMac 9600 G4/450 on 7.6.1/9.2.2, Beige G3 433 on 9.2.2, iMac DVSE 400 on 9.1, B&W G3 400 on 9.2.2, G4 Cube 500 on 9.2.2, iMac G4 800 on 9.2.2/10.3.9, TiBook G4 867 on 9.2.2/10.5.8, QS2002 G4 Dual 1GHz on 9.2.2/10.5.8, G5 Dual 1.8GHz on 10.4.11
Previously Had: Classic on 7.0, Quadra 605 on 7.5.5, Umax C600 on 8.1

FdB

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Re: Power Mac 9600
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2018, 11:01:07 AM »

Many thanks to Syntho especially… and now Raptor 007, I’ll be trundling out an old Power Mac 9600 to replace a 9500 that was once the primary scan station here.

I corrupted the boot drive on the 9500 recently, partitioning another SCSI drive for someone and I had always considered the move to the 9600. Now with this in-depth (and bookmarked!) expose’ on the 9600, this project shall move closer to the front burner here. Seems that every time I touch that 9500, something "plastic" always breaks. And, I'll probably “stick’ with OS 8.6.

So, another "mythical Phoenix” Mac rises from the proverbial ashes?

Great thread / Grand work!
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WhiteWarlock

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2018, 12:23:32 PM »


That machine looks like my old PowerMac 5260...
not missing it...
except still pissed off "someone" donated it to salvation army without consulting me...
so could intervene after they got PC thus reclaiming my machine
when was in frequent contact with them
had been letting them use it as work/storefront computer
beyond annoying
reminds me of crazy XGF who would always say:
"Good intentions pave the road to Hell!"
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macStuff

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2018, 09:42:51 AM »

its not a powermac its a performa..
i have the earlier model from 1995! performa 5200CD
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macStuff

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2018, 09:55:18 AM »

i still never found a 8600 or 9600 tho.. shame
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torvan

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2018, 09:19:43 PM »

Thanks. I have a 9600/300 that I upgraded to a G4 1.0 GHZ and 1 GB RAM. Also popped in a Sonnet SATA card and an 80GB SATA drive, plus an ATI 9200 card.

The 23" Aluminum monitor is currently plugged in and working good too.

My only complaint is how it takes 4x as long in Photoshop 7 to do anything which the G4 MDD does with ease. Sure it is the march of tech between the two, but the 9600 is miles quieter than the MDD!
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15 Macs (13 of them ranging from an SE to a MDD), 2 iPads, 2 iPhones, 1 Hackintosh. Small house getting smaller with each Mac. . . . .  .Husband shakes his head but supports my habit.

Astroman

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2018, 01:37:15 AM »

Most of the MDD's powersupply capability is designed for running a bunch of big HDs in the box, which is not required for most modern/SSD solutions.
When testing with 2 Pro Tools cards I had the side open, running only one of the PSU fans from an external 5V source at low speed and mounted a big fan (also low speed) to the CPU cooler.
I was surprised about the really low heat emission from the PSU case (both case fans were disconnected)
This isn't a proper solution but shows the potential of silence mods if you're careful about specific heat sources.

Also observed the 9600 rarity while checking various online sale sites.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 07:56:28 AM by Astroman »
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Syntho

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2018, 04:58:34 AM »

I probably shouldn't have even posted this thread because now they're more sought-after and I've literally driven up the price of them. This thread has nearly 30,000 views, for example.
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Astroman

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2018, 08:04:03 AM »

call yourself the Jack White of classic MacOS from now on...
(the dude made the prices of guitar trash gear shoot through the rooftop) ;D
But it's a highly specialized domain and most such machines were studio gear anyway.
I recently saw a Quadra 650 with NuVerb card and some other stuff selling for about $300 much less than expected (in Germany), so lucky purchases are still possible.
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DieHard

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2018, 08:06:42 AM »

I probably shouldn't have even posted this thread because now they're more sought-after and I've literally driven up the price of them. This thread has nearly 30,000 views, for example.

Hey my friend
Quote
...no good deed goes un-punished...lol

It has helped many, so don't be like that :) or I won't wrap any more pallets of ProTools stuff that you can't seem to help yourself from buying even when that old junk is out of state and here in CA
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W’rkncacnter

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2018, 10:37:12 AM »

Hi Syntho

Thank you for the fantastic forum post; I have just recently acquired a 9600/350 & this guide is an absolute god-send!

Just a quick question - & this is for all; what sort of video benchmark results do you get from say Norton Utilities Video? The machine right now is giving me around 63 which ranks it around a Quadra 700! (ironically; my first Mac). (Version of Utilities is 3.5.2)

As a TLDR; I've moved the video card to the secondary PCI slot - the primary is taken up with some sort of Audio card which I'm not so affiliated with.

I am currently waiting delivery for Mac OS 8.5; which I shall apply a clean install & update to Mac OS 8.6 in due course since admittedly the machine is still running the same install from it's previous owner.

Many thanks for any responses!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 11:47:55 AM by W’rkncacnter »
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- Power Macintosh 9600/350 604ev | 128MB RAM | 2x 4GB HDD | 8MB ixMicro TwinTurbo | Mac OS 8.6.
- Power Macintosh 5500/275 603ev | 64MB RAM | 4GB HDD | 2MB ATi Rage IIc | Mac OS 8.6.
- iMac 600Mhz G3 | 512MB RAM | 40GB HDD | 16MB ATi Rage 128 Ultra | Mac OS 9.2.2

Syntho

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2018, 07:01:15 PM »

All I can say is that the 9600 will score low on just about everything benchmark wise. I'm using the preinstalled video cards, and even if I used the fastest cards that the 9600 could take, it would be bottlenecked by other system specs. The 9600 has very slow file copying (even from SSD to SSD) as well as the aforementioned, subpar graphics even with the higher end cards, and I STILL haven't gotten a straight answer on why this happens. I think the system bus might be the central bottleneck, so to speak, but I'll let someone else chime in on what they think it is. On a G4 machine, the Pro Tools meters are 60fps constantly with lightning fast file copying. If you'd take those exact same SSDs and video cards out of the G4 and pop them into the 9600, it'd be as slow as molasses.

I haven't touched a G4 machine in about a year and a half, and when I do it's only for testing/diagnostics or whatever. The 9600 is what my whole studio runs off of and will continue to run off of until I can't use it anymore. I unfortunately drove up the prices and scarcity of 9600s, which sucks for me, because I still need another 300 or 350 machine as a backup.

Does anyone here have or know someone with a spare 9600? I need another one. Maybe someone will be kind enough to help since I took a lot of time to get this thread going :)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 07:13:16 PM by Syntho »
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FdB

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2018, 09:50:28 PM »

From July 2014:
Someday as a fun project I want to get a Powermac 9600 refurbished and brought up to date as much as I can.
Then later that year:
I think I'm about to vomit.
 >:( >:( >:( >:(
And then… after all the time and helpful info that he’s posted here, this:
Does anyone here have, or know someone with a spare 9600?
Well, not making any promises here… but I think I may know of a 9600 that’s currently collecting dust somewhere and if I can convince the owner to part with it… well, just maybe… your good deeds shall be justly and appropriately “punished”. PM me your contact info please and let me see what can be done.

(;) ;) nudge, nudge.) -Eric Idle
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Syntho

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2018, 10:43:30 PM »

I just looked it up and turns out my vomiting was because of the MOTU extension and Sonnet extension having a conflict, which is explained in the guide above. As soon as I switched to a NewerTech CPU upgrade there were no problems. I have since stopped using MOTU/FreeMidi altogether though, so no problems ever since  :)
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refinery

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2018, 06:15:31 PM »

i always loved the taller 86/9600 cases. someday i'll get my hands on one.
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got my mind on my scsi and my scsi on my mind

W’rkncacnter

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #55 on: November 12, 2018, 03:19:01 PM »

All I can say is that the 9600 will score low on just about everything benchmark wise. I'm using the preinstalled video cards, and even if I used the fastest cards that the 9600 could take, it would be bottlenecked by other system specs. The 9600 has very slow file copying (even from SSD to SSD) as well as the aforementioned, subpar graphics even with the higher end cards, and I STILL haven't gotten a straight answer on why this happens. I think the system bus might be the central bottleneck, so to speak, but I'll let someone else chime in on what they think it is. On a G4 machine, the Pro Tools meters are 60fps constantly with lightning fast file copying. If you'd take those exact same SSDs and video cards out of the G4 and pop them into the 9600, it'd be as slow as molasses.

Thanks for the reply Syntho - that is absolutely bizarre!

Well as a side note; I'll be updating the machine to OS 8.6 this week (it's currently on OS 8 - ew). Performance difference on a recently updated 5500/275 was night & day difference!

Radeon 9200 look to be in high demand right now; perhaps the 7000 is an option although I both cards require OS 9 to run (If I'm honest; I wanted to keep this machine on 8.6)

Still, will see what happens..
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- Power Macintosh 9600/350 604ev | 128MB RAM | 2x 4GB HDD | 8MB ixMicro TwinTurbo | Mac OS 8.6.
- Power Macintosh 5500/275 603ev | 64MB RAM | 4GB HDD | 2MB ATi Rage IIc | Mac OS 8.6.
- iMac 600Mhz G3 | 512MB RAM | 40GB HDD | 16MB ATi Rage 128 Ultra | Mac OS 9.2.2

W’rkncacnter

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2018, 02:02:51 PM »

Still, will see what happens..

Updated to Mac OS 8.5 this week; clean-install with a freshly formatted drive (HFS+).

World of difference; would appear for whatever reason the graphic drivers had not been installed/ running beforehand. The 9600 is ranked at 699 now - way above the Norton (3.5.2) last recorded specification of a 9600/200MP.

Now just to get 8.6 on there..
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- Power Macintosh 9600/350 604ev | 128MB RAM | 2x 4GB HDD | 8MB ixMicro TwinTurbo | Mac OS 8.6.
- Power Macintosh 5500/275 603ev | 64MB RAM | 4GB HDD | 2MB ATi Rage IIc | Mac OS 8.6.
- iMac 600Mhz G3 | 512MB RAM | 40GB HDD | 16MB ATi Rage 128 Ultra | Mac OS 9.2.2

macStuff

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2018, 06:42:22 AM »

I just looked it up and turns out my vomiting was because of the MOTU extension and Sonnet extension having a conflict, which is explained in the guide above. As soon as I switched to a NewerTech CPU upgrade there were no problems. I have since stopped using MOTU/FreeMidi altogether though, so no problems ever since  :)

i think a better approach would be to not mix oms + freemidi on the same hard drive (OS) and if you do want to run motu/freemidi apps to keep them on a seperate install to reboot to.. just for simplicity sake to save the headache of conflicts between motu + OMS! with the price of hard drives these days, id say mostly everyone has a spare drive solution like a CF card, or SD Card, they can use. alot easier to sidestep the conflicts alltogether.
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Syntho

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2018, 07:21:19 PM »

There is no way to edit my original posts so this one will have to do.

Something I've noticed over time is how finicky 9600 machines can be when there is a PRAM battery issue. Sometimes you'll have trouble booting the machine from the keyboard's power button if there is no PRAM battery installed, or if it's weak. I've heard that when you get down to around 3V, it's time to replace it. The batteries should read 3.6V when brand new. One of my 9600s had this exact problem until I changed it.

On top of that, I find that sometimes I have weird trouble with bootup times and things going slow when a PRAM battery isn't installed. It'll take forever to boot sometimes when it's searching for a hard drive. I even had trouble installing some software on an external drive because the PRAM battery wasn't installed! It just stalls or freezes.

All of the above is especially true for the older Tsunami architecture machines. For some reason the 200 and 233 machines suffer from more weird issues when there is a low, dead, or missing PRAM battery. Just random issues that make no sense. This is another reason to try and find a 300 or 350 machine. Whenever you have some issue that you just can't pin down, as weird as it may sound, the PRAM battery can make things go haywire, so check the PRAM battery and see if it clears up the issue even if you think the problem you're having is completely unrelated to the PRAM battery. They're only like $4 brand new. 1/2 AA 3.6V is what you want.

I've also found that you need to make sure you've got good RAM, and that it is seated correctly. Sometimes I'll get a broken glass sound (indicates RAM issue) but all it takes is pushing the RAM down into the slot better. I'm not sure if this has any connection to it, but I noticed this more so on my 200 machine than my Kansas ones.

One more issue is that on my 200 machine, I think there may be an issue with RAM slot order. All of my Kansas machines work fine with the RAM installed as I posted in the original guide: the '6' slots first, working back. However I've found the Tsunami one wanted me to install the first stick vice versa: slots '1' and counting up. Perhaps this was just a fluke and I wasn't seating the RAM correctly, but changing slot order on an older Tsunami machine is another troubleshooting method you can try for a non-booting machine. If you start up and don't hear the chime, fool with the RAM by either switching slot order or reseating it well and see if that helps. I had what I thought was bad RAM (broken glass sound) until I reseated, only to discover that it was actually fine.

Lastly, there seems to be idiosyncrasies from machine to machine regarding PCI slot order. Sometimes a video card won't work in a certain slot on X machine, but it will work fine on another. I've also read reports that other types of cards (Digidesign) work in some slots on some machines, but don't in others. You should shoot for the slot order as I've posted above first and foremost (the PCI Bus Master slot thing), but sometimes you HAVE to go against abiding by the Bus Master thing as noted above, either due to a video card issue, or maybe with some other type of PCI card that won't work. Sometimes your odd slot order configuration is stable for you, but not for someone else. I can't explain it, but it's definitely an idiosyncrasy from machine to machine.

I would like to think that these machines are all uniform, but from all of my experimentation on four different 9600s, and from all the years of posts at the old Digidesign forum, each 9600 seems to be its own beast.

If you can work out the small bugs in these machines, you'll have what I consider to be the best computer Apple ever released. They become rock solid once you hack the hardware as above, prune the extensions to your liking and work out the niggles.

It's my favorite computer of all time.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 08:06:51 PM by Syntho »
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Philgood

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Re: Power Mac 9600 O.G. Guide
« Reply #59 on: December 01, 2018, 09:27:44 AM »

Regarding pram I can second that experience even on my G4 MDD machine.
With a depleted pram battery I got weird issues that I thought we're coming from bad memory as I couldn't even run programs anymore.
So it seems the first to look after.

I definitely learned that the battery are li-on batteries but not rechargeable as I thought so they will have to be replaced sooner than you might think.
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*G4 MDD 1.25GHz (Single 2003)* with 2x 80Gb harddrives, 1Gb RAM, Tascam US-428 and Edirol FA-101 USB/Firewire soundcards-*iMac G3 DV 400MHz* with installs from OS 8.6-OSX Tiger on different harddrives-*Powerbook G4 1.67Ghz* with new SSD ! Love it.
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