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[mrhappy]

I've been using the keyboard that came with my G4 400 mainly because it has a dedicated button to start the the computer... I suppose I COULD 'slum it' and actually reach down to the tower itself ... I have another keyboard that I wanted to use without this button...

My question... Is there a keystroke combination, on a keyboard WITHOUT the dedicated power button, that will start the computer??

[Philgood]

I only know that kind of keyboard from my G3 iMac and the power key is not working when i connect it to my MDD tower. I read that Apple designed it with a non-standard USB connection.

[GaryN]

Searching "Apple Keyboard" in Wikipedia returns:

On Apple Desktop Bus keyboards, a power key (◁), used to turn on computers that supported it (and to type the Mac three-finger salute). On keyboards with function keys, it was placed either on the left or right edge of the same keyboard row as the function keys; on keyboards without function keys it was placed in a central location above the other keys. The power key was replaced with a more conventional power button on early USB keyboards, thanks to a proprietary pin wired to the Macintosh's power supply in Apple's early USB implementations, subsequently eliminated on the Pro Keyboard along with the special power supply pin. Most of its functions were transferred to the eject (⏏) key in such later keyboards (holding down the control key simultaneously to make the eject key act like the power key).

So, you can shut DOWN the computer with a keystroke combo, but not ON.

[mrhappy]

interesting info there Gary... I have the power button keyboard routed through a USB switcher and it will turn on my G4 400, DP 500 and I THINK it also works on the MDD... I'll have to confirm that.

[Syntho]

This is one reason I love my 9600s 

[MacTron]

If you have an Apple Cinema Display, the computer starts from the power sensor on the display.



This is one reason I love my Apple Cinema Display. 

[GaryN]

I think the problem is that in order to use a key-combination over USB to turn the machine on you need to provide USB 5vdc to the connector AND have a powered-on-standby circuit in the computer. Also, having power on the USB connectors with the machine off can cause other issues with outboard gear that turns on and off with the supplied power. Complicated enough yet? Wait, it gets better; Like MacTron, I too have those glorious old Cinema Displays. They use the short-lived Apple ADC everything-in-one connector which DOES have a standby power pin to turn on the computer from the display (because, that's obviously MUCH better than from the keyboard…right?).

It gets even weirder when you use a second display with a DVI > ADC brick, but that's REALLY for another thread…

[mrhappy]

If you have an Apple Cinema Display, the computer starts from the power sensor on the display.

This is one reason I love my Apple Cinema Display. 

Yes, I happen to have one of those at present and it starts the MDD just fine however, I've been using a 42" Plasma that's hooked through a DVI switcher to multiple computers... along with the USB switcher for the Keyboard. Whenever I have multiple keyboards, I always seem to be typing on the 'wrong' one and wondering why the computer isn't responding!!

The Keyboard I've been using is the M2452 and It will NOT start my MDD... I KNEW there was a reason I started this thread!!!

[mrhappy]

I've tried a whole bunch of Key combinations but will give it another shot with the ones that Gary posted. 

[Protools5LEGuy]

The last "keyboard booting" G4 mac was the AGP?

Maybe the right question is:

How to mod all the PMG4 to allow them to boot with the keyboard?

I also tried to boot the G4 DA and MDD with the "blue" keyboard with no success. Even tried with the iMac G3 Indigo with no success.

My Blue&White PM G3 can boot with any keyboard. ADB and USB ones.

[supernova777]

like mactron said. the power button was moved from the keyboard to the monitor button or more specificallly the ADC
moved from the keyboard to the apple display connector mechanism...

but its not that big a deal to press the power button "manually" mr happy or should i call u mr lazy ??  lol

[mrhappy]

but its not that big a deal to press the power button "manually" mr happy or should i call u mr lazy ??  lol

Haha... but it's just SOO COOL to start it up from the keyboard... reaching down to the tower is like having to get out and crank the car to start it in 1920!! haha!

I vote for Protools5LEGuy's idea!!!

Maybe the right question is:

How to mod all the PMG4 to allow them to boot with the keyboard?

[supernova777]

it wont work with any ADC capable g4 because it wants the command via the ADC connection

[mrhappy]

maybe Knez can make some sort of 'ADC Desktop ON Switch'!! 

I'll be damned if I have to bend down to fire up the MDD!!!😁😁

[Protools5LEGuy]

I'll be damned if I have to bend down to fire up the MDD!!!😁😁

I have my MDD on a different room than the monitor, the keyboard and the mouse. Let's say in a "machine room". With just a VGA and a USB extender I get rid of the noise coming from the dual 867 original PSU.

For me is not a question on "bend" myself to the tower to power on. I have to walk 15 meters to get from the "Studio" room to the "Machine" room, even when it is just at 2 meters behind the wall between rooms. When OS9 crashes, I have to take a walk.  Thanks God this rarely happen once I have setup a system. But to Power up the system:15+15 meters. 

interesting info there Gary... I have the power button keyboard routed through a USB switcher and it will turn on my G4 400, DP 500 and I THINK it also works on the MDD... I'll have to confirm that.

I have some powered USB hubs that can "power" the devices with the computer off. Is that the way for the power button on the keyboard to make it work?

I think ALL new world pre-ADC PowerMacs G3/4 can boot with the keyboard, but maybe I am wrong.

To ADC owners: Can you boot the computer also with the keyboard button connected to the ADC monitor?

To ADB keyboard users: Can we use S-Video Male-Female cables to extend the distance from keyboard to tower? To my eyes they are the same cable. Is there a distance limit?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Desktop_Bus

it wont work with any ADC capable g4 because it wants the command via the ADC connection

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Display_Connector

Pin 13    Soft Power    
Pin 21    USB Data+       
Pin 22    USB Data–       
Pin 23    USB Return    


Pin 3 and 11

Power is supplied to the ADC port by an additional finger connector on the video card, which plugs into a slot on the motherboard between the AGP slot and the back panel of the computer; on G4 Macs, some power is also sent through AGP pins 3 and 11. When ADC was introduced, AGP pins 3 and 11 were unassigned. In AGP 8x, pins 3 and 11 were assigned, so because of that, G4s are not directly compatible with AGP 8x. G5 Macs draw all power from the finger connector and therefore are 8x compatible. To use an AGP 8x card in a G4, pins 3 and 11 must be somehow disabled; this can be done by placing tape over the conductive part of the pin, slicing the PCB traces, or on some cards, desoldering surface mount resistors.

So, "hacking" AGP pins 3 and 11 on cards without ADC outputs can get back keyboard bootability? Some flashed PC cards need to be Isolated from these 2 pins. Maybe, on flashed cards, we can retrofit "another" power button?

[GaryN]

I warned you this was going to get complicated.

Short answer - NO. The "soft power" switch on the monitor is a touch switch that's powered on 24/7. That voltage may or may not come via pins 3 and/or 11. The switch output is also most likely logic 0v, which may or may not be the same as the hard switch closure on the keyboard.

Someday when Apple gets its own Edward Snowden, the schematics for these old machines will hit the net and a thousand geniuses with too much time on their hands will make all this stuff easy.

Until then the most direct course of action is probably:

1. Open the kbd - determine the "in and out" of the power switch and how to grab the output.
2. Determine just what triggers the computer on at the front power switch.
3. Build a small (preferably in-line size) interface if/as needed.
4. Add wire(s) to the keyboard or build a new kbd USB+Switch cable.
5. Run the new wire to the computer - or to a off-the-shelf TX RX pair (as in $12.95 remote doorbell) if your computer's in the next room…
    (If the door button part is small enough, you can put it inline right at the keyboard)
6. Connect and debug as necessary, careful not to damage anything.

Be happy and enjoy the fruit of your labor, slowly realizing that all you really need is the doorbell TX/RX pair hooked to the computer switch to give you what you really want: Remote power control of your computer. You can put the thing anywhere it's convenient.

NOW we're havin' fun!

[mrhappy]

AWESOME GaryN!!!!

[supernova777]

maybe Knez can make some sort of 'ADC Desktop ON Switch'!! 

I'll be damned if I have to bend down to fire up the MDD!!!

this is ridiculous man... of all the things we could be talking about.. seriously??


no wonder your fan mod is still on the "to do"

[mrhappy]

Haha... yeah Chris... of coarse I'm being a LITTLE silly with some of my comments but there ARE some more 'serious' benefits as PLTEGuy has stated!

But back to my silliness... I just get such a great feeling when I mosey up to my desk and press that 'magic' button that fires up the system... It's all good in the world when I hear the Apple orchestral startup blast and the happy little Apple 'toaster' pops up on the screen!!

[DieHard]

Hmmm.. do 10 Mods to the MDD Power button board via a soldering gun, glue gun, wires and a doorbell and post full procedure with Pictures or buy a 23" cinema display for $75 bucks on craigslist to Power on that mac in the other room... damn, I just can't make up my mind