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[(S)ATAman]

No matter, what money you spend on drives, adapters or what-not it is still much less, than the damage you get if you spend that money not wisely.
Buy brand new rotating drives in retail packaging and certified for 7/24.

Certify them with SoftRAID (additionally!) and take every issue very seriously. RAID-10 is the safest and always have spare drives.

I have two Thecus 8800 set-ups, each of six drives, RAID-10 and in two different countries.

Both are identical and mercilessly mirrored after every travel between both locations.

It works... Maybe sounds a bit expensive, but better not to be sorry after a disaster.

[IIO]

Wow, just checked eBay and the Acard ARS-2133 IDE-to-SATA Bridge is Still holding at $99 plus shipping

3 years later the prices are ranging from USD 20 to 2000

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACARD-AEC-7923-SATA-II-to-IDE-Bridge/252444624449?hash=item3ac6df4641:g:NtUAAOSw7aBVGdVI

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACARD-ARS-2160H-Ultra160-SCSI-to-SATA-II-Bridge-Box-80-Pin/263823727507?hash=item3d6d1e9b93:g:pIYAAOSw34FVGeK7

[GaryN]

I recently bought this from Newegg and it works flawlessly. Brand new with a warranty…

https://www.newegg.com/startech-ide2sat2-ide-to-sata-with-odd-support/p/N82E16812400465?Description=sata%20ide&cm_re=sata_ide-_-12-400-465-_-Product

[IIO]

whoa, expensive

i am still looking for a good solution how to mount/fix/isloate converters like that in a QS desktop.

current solution is taping the SSD to the floor.

[(S)ATAman]

whoa, expensive

i am still looking for a good solution how to mount/fix/isloate converters like that in a QS desktop.

current solution is taping the SSD to the floor.

If you notice the PCB - they are made at the same factory where most if not all FT cards used to be made.
But for small numbers and in particular to fit in small place they aren't the best: to expensive and to big.

I tried with good success JMicron-based design of eBay. There are several designs.

The one with two large condensators is a very bad design:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-PATA-IDE-To-Serial-ATA-SATA-Adapter-Converter-For-HDD-DVD/253296862444

This design is good (and only this one!)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SATA-to-IDE-adapter-converter-2-5-SATA-Female-to-3-5-inches-IDE-male-40-pin/273076839233

Unfortunately I don't know the manufacturer.

From China directly, same good thing, for much less:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SATA-ssd-hdd-female-hard-drive-to-ide-3-5-40-pin-male-converter-card-adapter-KQ/183966961780

The one for 2.5" IDE drives is similar, but still bad.
Remember: the moment you see two large cylinders next to each other poking out of PCB - run away. These are awful.

Occasionally bad adapters do happen, so the safest way is to buy few more (if you need a pair - buy two more).
The price is $3.31 (U.S.), so the total for four cards would be 4 x 3.31.

If you are not lucky one maybe will be a "lemon". If you are lucky, use two and sell the rest or just put them away as spares.
You always may need some extra.

The risk is very low, is exactly $13.24


Update: noticed that the above seller does not sell to the U.S.
This one does:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SATA-ssd-hdd-female-hard-drive-to-ide-3-5-40-pin-male-converter-card-adapter-WL/233228050977

They are probably the same, selling for same price just playing different games. Never understood the shipping policy of these sellers.
Some sell to Germany, some not. Some sell to U.S., some not. And if they announce that an item is "negotiable" they spend 10-15 minutes to write an e-mail why they won't accept your $3.30 offer for what is on display for $3.34.

Notice this seller, too:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SATA-ssd-hdd-female-hard-drive-to-ide-3-5-40-pin-male-converter-card-adapter-BI/183771688630
Same thing, except that there is $0.29 shipping for a $3.05 item, yielding the same $3.34 as above. Funny these games. And I bet, none of them knows really what they sell.

[DieHard]

This design is good (and only this one!)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SATA-to-IDE-adapter-converter-2-5-SATA-Female-to-3-5-inches-IDE-male-40-pin/273076839233

Unfortunately I don't know the manufacturer.

I think we covered this one... it looks IDENTICAL to the Kingwin we featured, but a good find

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,3576.0.html

[IIO]

If you notice the PCB - they are made at the same factory where most if not all FT cards used to be made.

The one with two large condensators is a very bad design:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-PATA-IDE-To-Serial-ATA-SATA-Adapter-Converter-For-HDD-DVD/253296862444

yes, those are the ones i use, i thought they were the cheapest

i am aware of those similar models without these big condensators, i love that they are smaller, and they seem to have the same price tag, but never saw them on german ebay when i ordered a bunch some years ago.

Remember: the moment you see two large cylinders next to each other poking out of PCB - run away. These are awful.

yes, i know, when used often, one should control how it looks from time to time.

can you tell HOW bad it is? can it damage the drive or the compuiter when it explodes one day?

my optical enclores are only powered on once a week. the G4s are more often...

And if they announce that an item is "negotiable" they spend 10-15 minutes to write an e-mail why they won't accept your $3.30 offer for what is on display for $3.34.

i never saw a chinese talking on ebay. sometimes they refund, sometimes not. until now everything arrived in time and in order. if one day they send me shit or forget me, i will still give them "green" even if i loose the game.

who knows, in the end i am supporting communism by buying this stuff? i wouldnt mind... there are worse countries to buy stuff from.

last week i bought a golden necklace from central china for 1,87 euro and another one for 2,24 including shipping. i have no idea how they do that as normally a postcard already costs more.
in germany the very same product costs 14 euro and every third german ebay shop will send you broken stuff and then explain you that it is your fault.

around christmas i am expecting a superb teabrick from nepal, which i had to order 4 months before i need it. not even the wholesale has it here.

btw, i once tested a chinese knock-off "apple" branded DVI to VGA adapter, which actually looks completely like the original - and makes a better picture than the original.

[(S)ATAman]

If you notice the PCB - they are made at the same factory where most if not all FT cards used to be made.

The one with two large condensators is a very bad design:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-PATA-IDE-To-Serial-ATA-SATA-Adapter-Converter-For-HDD-DVD/253296862444

yes, those are the ones i use, i thought they were the cheapest

i am aware of those similar models without these big condensators, i love that they are smaller, and they seem to have the same price tag, but never saw them on german ebay when i ordered a bunch some years ago.

Remember: the moment you see two large cylinders next to each other poking out of PCB - run away. These are awful.

yes, i know, when used often, one should control how it looks from time to time.

can you tell HOW bad it is? can it damage the drive or the compuiter when it explodes one day?

my optical enclores are only powered on once a week. the G4s are more often...

And if they announce that an item is "negotiable" they spend 10-15 minutes to write an e-mail why they won't accept your $3.30 offer for what is on display for $3.34.

i never saw a chinese talking on ebay. sometimes they refund, sometimes not. until now everything arrived in time and in order. if one day they send me shit or forget me, i will still give them "green" even if i loose the game.

who knows, in the end i am supporting communism by buying this stuff? i wouldnt mind... there are worse countries to buy stuff from.

last week i bought a golden necklace from central china for 1,87 euro and another one for 2,24 including shipping. i have no idea how they do that as normally a postcard already costs more.
in germany the very same product costs 14 euro and every third german ebay shop will send you broken stuff and then explain you that it is your fault.

around christmas i am expecting a superb teabrick from nepal, which i had to order 4 months before i need it. not even the wholesale has it here.

btw, i once tested a chinese knock-off "apple" branded DVI to VGA adapter, which actually looks completely like the original - and makes a better picture than the original.

The bad adapters produce a lot of noise. SATA is a fast protocol and if the noise is bad, the result is bad.
I tried the other adapters in the Xserve RAID replacing the 1TB HGST PATA drives with 1TB WDC laptop drives ("blue") and the PATA-SATA adapters. I let them work for few days in the row. 14 drives - not a single error. So they are OK. The adapters with two large cylinder failed badly within minutes. Nothing exploded, just transmission errors.

I just bought four Kingston SSD-s (240MB) for £19 each, paid something like £5 for shipment, from Slovenia. Hope they are OK. On the auction they looked new and unopened.

[GaryN]

whoa, expensive

i am still looking for a good solution how to mount/fix/isloate converters like that in a QS desktop.
current solution is taping the SSD to the floor.

Expensive? $16 ??
Maybe I should add that I previously bough a similar one on fleabay for $10.

Guess what? It did NOT work

[(S)ATAman]

whoa, expensive

i am still looking for a good solution how to mount/fix/isloate converters like that in a QS desktop.
current solution is taping the SSD to the floor.

Expensive? $16 ??
Maybe I should add that I previously bough a similar one on fleabay for $10.

Guess what? It did NOT work

I bought probably 30 or so on fee-Bay for the two Xserve RAID-s, under $4 a piece and they do work.
It's not the price (sometimes it tells us nothing), but technology.

The two chips which are known to work are from either JMicron or Marvell. There used to be from SiliconImage, they are pretty good - but nowhere to find.
Than the manufacturer has to follow certain procedure. To make a bad adapter is not really cheaper than to make a good adapter.

To employ bad engineers is, however, cheaper at first - but ultimately very expensive.
Quite a few companies learned that. To bad, in the U.S. the culture favors managers, not engineers.

The funny twist: in USA the managers prefer to drive German and Japanese cars.
In Germany and Japan the managers prefer to drive German and Japanese cars.

In America, Germany, Russia the managers try to force down the throat of customers Indian software.
In India, in most critical places American, German, Russian software is deployed.

Something about engineering culture ;-)

[GaryN]

I bought probably 30 or so on fee-Bay for the two Xserve RAID-s, under $4 a piece and they do work.
It's not the price (sometimes it tells us nothing), but technology.

3 dollars, 4 dollars, 5 dollars and on and on and on……

If I was buying a bunch to set up a RAID or similar (as you were) I might actually give a damn about a few bucks.
I was buying ONE. So, I just wanted it to work because I have other things to do besides debug every little thing I buy.

That said, the reason the cheaper one didn't work was because they didn't bother to include a cable select setting - only master and slave.
This did not show in the pics or description and I didn't stop to think about it…possibly partly because it was so cheap.
Could I have made it work? Possibly / probably. But rather than start chopping cable and such, I chose instead, to use it somewhere else entirely.
I replaced it with something that did work and honestly, appears to be of far better construction as well.

[macStuff]

(S)ATAman do you work for Firmtek?

[(S)ATAman]

(S)ATAman do you work for Firmtek?

No, I don't. But obviously I did. Long time ago. All their software and more is written by me. And my name is inside of the drivers.
Either they are electronically signed by me (post-Sierra requirement) or it's just straight there (FCode). Not difficult to find either out, just use ASP for Sierra or later.
But please no names here.

Otherwise I am not with them since almost 10 years. And the Thunderbolt development is not what I did. I think, their Thunderbolt development was unique because it was done by a SINGLE PERSON (I have nothing to do with it) and not a team. It was probably an enormous effort - which wasn't valued as much as much money and effort was put there. Sad. But that wasn't my work anymore. I am afraid, that ultimately the Thunderbolt was what consumed the resources. A very much unjust thing - why should a 2-man company (yes, all FirmTek was about TWO people. And after I had to go - essentially ONLY ONE!) finance the R&D of Intel and Apple combined?

So there is the secret... FirmTek even in it's best days was only two people. And the third (M***) was / (is?) working for free. At least when I was there, he did not get a Cent.

[macStuff]

SATA to PATA adapters  provide no additional speed increase
a 64bit PCI or PCI-X card such as the Acard 6885M or the Firmtek cards provide a huge increase over the built in ATA speed
180-190MB/s  is double (probably triple) the Bandwidth any built in ATA connection can ever hope to provide with a SATA/PATA adapter

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,2542.0.html

if its connected to a 64bit SATA150 pci card, 2 drives will cap out around 190-200MB/s
if its connected to a 32 bit SATA150 pci card, its gona cap out around 90-105MB/s
if its connected to a native ATA100 port, it should cap out somewhere near 60-65MB/s
if its connected to a native ATA66 port, it should cap out somewhere near 45-50MB/s
if its connected to a native ATA33 port, it should cap out somewhere near 25-30MB/s

i dont see anyone posting any disk benchmarks for SATA/PATA Adapters.. and with good reason because they are not very impressive.

even if it was possible to SOFTRAID 2 drives using SATA/PATA Adapters, that speed is going to cap out at around the same speed a single drive would on a PCI Adapter (120Mb/s - 60MB/s x 2)

[macStuff]

(S)ATAman
so you are the same guy who i saw posting on https://www.macgurus.com/forums/ ? back in the day?
if so; i was hoping you would show up some day;) happy holidays to you sir

[(S)ATAman]

(S)ATAman do you work for Firmtek?

No, I don't. But obviously I did. Long time ago. All their software and more is written by me. And my name is inside of the drivers.
Either they are electronically signed by me (post-Sierra requirement) or it's just straight there (FCode). Not difficult to find either out, just use ASP for Sierra or later.
But please no names here.

Otherwise I am not with them since almost 10 years. And the Thunderbolt development is not what I did. I think, their Thunderbolt development was unique because it was done by a SINGLE PERSON (I have nothing to do with it) and not a team. It was probably an enormous effort - which wasn't valued as much as much money and effort was put there. Sad. But that wasn't my work anymore. I am afraid, that ultimately the Thunderbolt was what consumed the resources. A very much unjust thing - why should a 2-man company (yes, all FirmTek was about TWO people. And after I had to go - essentially ONLY ONE!) finance the R&D of Intel and Apple combined?

So there is the secret... FirmTek even in it's best days was only two people. And the third (M***) was / (is?) working for free. At least when I was there, he did not get a Cent.

Why I am saying that - just FYI: the certification of a Thunderbolt device even today costs something like $40K. For a small company this is insane burden. They may take a risk of playing with Thunderbolt - but it is a huge risk. The chances to survive being hit by a Thunderbolt are small not only during a thunderstorm.

[(S)ATAman]

(S)ATAman
so you are the same guy who i saw posting on https://www.macgurus.com/forums/ ? back in the day?
if so; i was hoping you would show up some day;) happy holidays to you sir

Thanks! The MacGurus story actually ended with some misunderstanding (regarding the word "Orthodox"), hope one day I will tell Rick that he totally misunderstood that word. I did not communicate with him since maybe 6-7 years.

As for my relationship with Apple community: I am far more fanatic and insane than just disappear. Hope, my most rebellious days are ahead of me

[macStuff]

we are all indebted to your work
i have a number of cards , sonnet, firmtek, acard etc
i hope that you can help Daniel out to achieve some great result for the benefit of all  of us retro users

[(S)ATAman]

we are all indebted to your work
i have a number of cards , sonnet, firmtek, acard etc
i hope that you can help Daniel out to achieve some great result for the benefit of all  of us retro users

Thanks! ACard starting with "66" was my personal competition. The late Sonnet cards were made by Joel of Sonnet (now Apple), competing with me - and doing a better job with advanced Marvell SATA chips, than I did later on with same. So it's by far not just me.

Regarding "retro":
- The deal with Promise/100/133 alias UltraTek/100/133 with Sonnet was done, they don't care less, so I am going to "open" all Promise Parallel ATA cards with the factory flasher. This will be done immediately as I get the Kingston 240 SSD drives. Four new are on order from eBay, i expect them to arrive before the holidays.
So the PATA is a done deal. If anyone wants to do some hacking on Parallel ATA - please wait few weeks, maybe days.

- What to do with SATA is a different story. 3124 is a possibility, will either help Daniel or make something on quick, simply preferring what yields the fastest result.
I am undecided because I know how bad 3124 internally is and how bad and useless (for the future) is it's programming interface. Marvell 6042 is much better but there are barely any cards and there is no FCode. Some other ideas are floating in my head but it could happen we just land up with 3124 for MacOS 9.x

[FdB]

Just when you might think that it’s quiet enough to take a nap…
                              yet another “rogue” enters the proverbial fold.

That MICROPΩLIS is still here and working (but gathering dust).
Could possibly be in (S)ATAman’s future, minus the SCSI drives.

If we all hang around here long enough, who knows who…
                                                 and what might just show up?

Welcome aboard, glad that you're here!