Author Topic: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)  (Read 540003 times)

Offline jackoverfull

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1380 on: January 09, 2023, 09:56:22 PM »
Regarding your original mouse, have you tried installing USB Overdrive?

Offline Bolkonskij

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1381 on: January 10, 2023, 03:04:30 AM »
Thanks for sharing your story!

Don't worry about TRIM. OS9 isn't in the habit of constantly writing to disk (if you keep Virtual Memory off; which is advisable) like some other Apple branded OS (not naming any names). I've got an SSD in my G4 for three years now and it sees daily use and no problems whatsoever ...

As for a hub, I just use a "Delock 87445 USB 2.0 4 Port" that works just fine with my printer, speakers and Christmas lights plugged into it ;-)
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Offline gregbuchner

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1382 on: January 11, 2023, 09:32:03 AM »
Regarding your original mouse, have you tried installing USB Overdrive?

Yes, did install it, just haven't had a chance to play too much with things since then. Work can be a PITA when Microsoft screws up your organization for the day by mysteriously deactivating paid for licenses.

And my G4 MDD apparently died so now I have to figure out if I have a FireWire or USB adapter to PATA drives around so I can move data. I think I had one or two in the past, but no idea where they are.

Offline gregbuchner

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1383 on: January 11, 2023, 09:36:47 AM »
Don't worry about TRIM. OS9 isn't in the habit of constantly writing to disk (if you keep Virtual Memory off; which is advisable) like some other Apple branded OS (not naming any names).

As for a hub, I just use a "Delock 87445 USB 2.0 4 Port" that works just fine with my printer, speakers and Christmas lights plugged into it ;-)

I wasn't too worried and yes, I had no plans to turn on Virtual Memory. With OS 9 taking up about 60 some MB of my 1 GB, I don't think it's needed. Although that might grow once I remember some startup items from long ago...

Thanks for the hub recommendation. If I have one around that doesn't work well, I'll look into that one.

Offline IIO

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1384 on: January 11, 2023, 10:02:56 AM »
the current state of the discussion is that you should try to select another speed than "normal" in usb overdrive to see if third party mouse issues go away.
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Offline jackoverfull

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1385 on: January 11, 2023, 10:44:50 AM »
About virtual memory, keep in mind that you can’t give more than around 1GB to a single program, so if you already have that much using virtual memory seems overkill anyway.

Offline gregbuchner

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1386 on: January 12, 2023, 03:20:36 PM »
So, updates...

Realized my ex-roommate had left a PowerMac G3 downstairs. (He'll probably pick it up one day...) Brought it up, plugged it into display, keyboard, mouse, network and power and it powered up. To a folder with a flashing question mark and some questionable sounds from a hard drive. Didn't have time to deal with it then, but do today.

Removed HD from my G4 MDD. Figured the 80 GB one had to be the one I had for Mac OS 9 on that machine, took it out, plugged it into the G3, powered it on and walked away for a bit as I had other things to do. Came back and it was on my OS 9 screen with the stuff I remember. Hook up FW400 drive, start copying games folder over to it. Look around for other data, nothing really important.

Check networking. And the 10/100 networking on the G3 didn't work either. Has to be something with the switch I'm using that is close by as Gigabit has been working.

I'll be set to start playing some old OS 9 compatible games when I can get off work early tomorrow. And play around with any needed settings that might need to be changed, like in USB Overdrive.

Thanks everyone.

Offline PowerBookG5

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1387 on: June 01, 2023, 02:45:07 PM »
Wow this is so great to find this OS9 community!  8) And thank you for your effort to make it possible to install OS 9 to the PPC MacMini!

After that, I had a script which was intended for upgrading those on v8 of the Mac mini System to v9, but it should also work on any standard install of OS 9.2.2 to make it compatible with the Mini; it updates the ROM and has other patches for example.
(...)
The updater is here
Quote
Update to v9.sit: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbfZEfYgbhWLGK2JY_xbGjlxrvzzWdSX/view?usp=drivesdk

Do I unterstand it right, that with that patcher I can make an already existing OS9 System, which was used for the Classic Environment unter Tiger, natively bootable? If so, from where I have to run that script? From OS X or from the OS9 Boot-CD? Does it matter that this OS9 is a German version?

Thanks for the help!

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1388 on: June 02, 2023, 10:49:03 AM »
Quote
Do I unterstand it right, that with that patcher I can make an already existing OS9 System, which was used for the Classic Environment unter Tiger, natively bootable? If so, from where I have to run that script? From OS X or from the OS9 Boot-CD? Does it matter that this OS9 is a German version?

No, absolutely not... the "patcher" is specifically for those who installed the "Mac Mini v8" (version 8 custom CD Install) and now want the newer version of the Mac mini CD.  There are no installs or patchers that can be used on PPC minis that are currently running a stock version of OSX that will enable them to natively boot into OS9.  :(


Offline PowerBookG5

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1389 on: June 04, 2023, 06:50:37 AM »
No, absolutely not... the "patcher" is specifically for those who installed the "Mac Mini v8" (version 8 custom CD Install) and now want the newer version of the Mac mini CD.  There are no installs or patchers that can be used on PPC minis that are currently running a stock version of OSX that will enable them to natively boot into OS9.  :(

Ok but I understood the following quote exact like that:

You should be able to install the Spanish Mac OS 9 onto the Mini over FireWire target disk mode from a compatible machine (or just drag and drop with the right connection) and update that installation to 9.2.2 if needed with the correct language update from Apple.

After that, I had a script which was intended for upgrading those on v8 of the Mac mini System to v9, but it should also work on any standard install of OS 9.2.2 to make it compatible with the Mini; it updates the ROM and has other patches for example.

It’d be best to try the v9 updater on a fresh install of the Spanish OS 9.2.2 just to make sure it all works fine; older versions of the updater would update the System Suitcase, which may have affected the language in some way, I would have to check if this one does that still.

The updater is here
Quote
Update to v9.sit: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbfZEfYgbhWLGK2JY_xbGjlxrvzzWdSX/view?usp=drivesdk
Now I am confused. That sounds to me, that I can install or move any OS 9.x System Folder to the Mini and make it bootable with the patcher. What do I understand wrong on this?  :-\
Thanks for the help.

Offline DieHard

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1390 on: June 04, 2023, 09:31:54 PM »
Quote
it should also work on any standard install of OS 9.2.2 to make it compatible with the Mini; it updates the ROM and has other patches for example.
I stand corrected... perhaps you should PM Ross Darker, I was unaware that the patcher could modify a standard install.... yet one is confused how you could have a "standard" OS 9.2.2 install already working on the mac mini. 

I am thinking you can partition the drive (make sure OS 9 drivers are checked under on the initial OS X drive setup); Install OS X on partition 1, then copy the files from here to part #2
Mac OS 9.2.2 Universal (Just Format & Drag files to Install)
http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1859.0.html

Without rebooting apply the patcher to part#2

Then boot to part#2

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1391 on: June 05, 2023, 03:36:43 AM »
It’s possible there would be issues if it’s a German version of Mac OS 9 however, similar to other languages.
See posts #1368 to #1371

Offline zefrenchtoon

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1392 on: June 06, 2023, 04:18:46 AM »
I started to explain the problem of foreign OSes at #1366  ;)


Offline EriolGaurhoth

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1393 on: June 22, 2023, 04:23:32 AM »
I have a weird issue with my install (and forgive me if this has been answered before elsewhere).

I partitioned my 512GB SSD to a few smaller drives, and I intended to put OS 9 on the 1st partition, which is 180GB (FWIW I also tried a smaller partition of 100 GB and I still get the same issues detailed below), and the other partitions will be mostly just data storage with one other one dedicated to a version of OS X.

When I do Apple Software Restore, the process goes smoothly until the checksum part, where it throws an error and says that my disk might not be bootable.  When I check the info on the drive, it's shrunk the drive down to roughly 700MB, with only tens of MB left on the drive.  The good news is, unlike what the error says, the drive is in fact bootable, there's just no storage left on that partition when there should be ~179GB on it.

I tried running Disk First Aid on it, and it tells me "Invalid B-tree node size" and that it can't fix the error.

What would be a remedy for this disk size error?  is there a way to do the install without running the checksum at the end?  I've tried mounting the Macintosh HD.Img and manually dragging the folders onto the disk, but the disk isn't bootable that way, only booting when I do the proper Apple Software Restore.  Alternatively, is there a way that the image file itself could be modified and expanded to 128GB in size, even if it's just some kind of dummy file taking up the extra space to ensure that when it restores, the entire drive size is there?  Or can I do something as simple as running a Norton Utilities disk, and fixing the issue using the tools from that?

Offline zefrenchtoon

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1394 on: June 22, 2023, 04:37:39 AM »
Hi
Your question is missing one information imo:  which version did you try to restore ?  Ross' v8, v9 ? another one ?

BTW, I am not sure that the internal ATA is capable to manage correctly a so big disk safely. I will let others to answer to this point.

I have a weird issue with my install (and forgive me if this has been answered before elsewhere).

I partitioned my 512GB SSD to a few smaller drives, and I intended to put OS 9 on the 1st partition, which is 180GB (FWIW I also tried a smaller partition of 100 GB and I still get the same issues detailed below), and the other partitions will be mostly just data storage with one other one dedicated to a version of OS X.

When I do Apple Software Restore, the process goes smoothly until the checksum part, where it throws an error and says that my disk might not be bootable.  When I check the info on the drive, it's shrunk the drive down to roughly 700MB, with only tens of MB left on the drive.  The good news is, unlike what the error says, the drive is in fact bootable, there's just no storage left on that partition when there should be ~179GB on it.

I tried running Disk First Aid on it, and it tells me "Invalid B-tree node size" and that it can't fix the error.

What would be a remedy for this disk size error?  is there a way to do the install without running the checksum at the end?  I've tried mounting the Macintosh HD.Img and manually dragging the folders onto the disk, but the disk isn't bootable that way, only booting when I do the proper Apple Software Restore.  Alternatively, is there a way that the image file itself could be modified and expanded to 128GB in size, even if it's just some kind of dummy file taking up the extra space to ensure that when it restores, the entire drive size is there?  Or can I do something as simple as running a Norton Utilities disk, and fixing the issue using the tools from that?

Offline EriolGaurhoth

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1395 on: June 22, 2023, 06:39:43 AM »
Hi
Your question is missing one information imo:  which version did you try to restore ?  Ross' v8, v9 ? another one ?

BTW, I am not sure that the internal ATA is capable to manage correctly a so big disk safely. I will let others to answer to this point.

Sorry, I'm using v9, the newest one. I've heard of other people using relatively large drives, at least ones over 200GB, I'm just not sure how they pulled it off. Another thing I probably should add is that Drive Setup seems to max out at 128GB so I had to partition the drive using the Disk Utility of a Mac OS X 10.4 setup disk, and when booting into Ross' v9, all the drives are recognized just fine and appear to hold information just fine, and the install goes smoothly, outside of the checksum error shrinking my 128GB partition down to 700MB.  Not only is the partition perfectly bootable, but once in OS 9, it sees all the other partitions I made, recognizing the full size of each partition as well. 

My last-ditch solution might just be to create a 1GB partition to install OS 9 on, and use other disk partitions to store all the applications and such, I'd just rather have some more space on my boot partition for things like additional extensions, as the system only shows me having about 30MB left on the boot partition.  What I might like to try is modifying the "Macintosh HD.img" to include some kind of large-size dummy file that can be deleted after the install so the partition can be stretched, I'm just not sure how to do so without breaking the bootability of the image.  And I'd have to keep the image on my secondary FireWire drive, because it wouldn't fit on my burned v9 CD.

Offline zefrenchtoon

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1396 on: June 22, 2023, 06:49:26 AM »
there should be a trick because I did quite the same install on mine with a 120GB SSD splitted in 3 almost equal partitions so each of them is about 30GB and all went fine if I remember well   ???

Offline RossDarker

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1397 on: June 22, 2023, 07:21:56 AM »
You could try initialising the drive with Drive Setup 2.1 instead (1.9.2 launches by default). It's in the Applications folder on the CD when you boot from it.

Otherwise, the drag and drop method you described should work. Perhaps you just need to bless the System Folder afterwards:
Quote
...it may be necessary at times to re-bless a copied System folder. A Mac OS 9 System folder must be 'blessed' in order for it to be recognized as a bootable OS (this “blessed” status is indicated by the System folder icon displaying an added glyph of the Mac OS logo). Re-blessing a system Folder is simple; first, drag the two files “Finder” and “System” out of the System Folder and close it. Now, drop these two files back onto the closed System folder. The closed System folder should display the Mac OS logo indicating it is blessed.

Offline EriolGaurhoth

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1398 on: June 22, 2023, 09:23:51 AM »
You could try initialising the drive with Drive Setup 2.1 instead (1.9.2 launches by default). It's in the Applications folder on the CD when you boot from it.

Otherwise, the drag and drop method you described should work. Perhaps you just need to bless the System Folder afterwards:

Played around with this a bit, and using 2.1 was good advice as it did see the entire disk size this time.  I tried to make the 180Gb partition for OS 9 and it still kept failing on me.  Then I thought, maybe the issue was with the CD and/or the CD drive, because I was having trouble with it lately.  So I dragged the "Macintosh HD.img" and Apple Software Restore over to my attached Firewire drive, restored using that, and everything worked perfectly!  Mostly...no checksum errors, the drive is the correct size and the volume boots.  Unfortunately now I can no longer move my mouse, which iirc, was an issue with this install before, so I'll have to check and see how that was eventually resolved to see if I can fix it here as well.

Offline gregbuchner

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Re: Mac OS 9 booting on: Mac mini G4 (Detailed Posts)
« Reply #1399 on: June 22, 2023, 10:45:29 AM »
I believe you need to use the Disk Utility on the CD to partition it for things to work properly. I know I did with a 128 GB SSD (PATA) and it went smoothly.