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[supernova777]

free download.... a vintage piece of midi / daw history here !!!!!!!!

[supernova777]

special thanks to Nick Dynice for providing the screenshots 

[motosega]

what OS versions did you test this on?

i'm trying to get this to run on a Macintosh Classic, but i'm having quite a few crashes on system7.1 and system6.08, and system 6.0.4(the version in the mac classic boot ROM) mostly with unimplemented trap errors(which normally indicate a wrong os version)

when this came out was the current system was 6.0.4 or was it designed to run on system 5?

i opened the archive in the basilisk ii emulator then copied the files to a hfs formatted zip disk and then unzipped them with stuffit 5.5 before moving the zip disk to my Macintosh classic. the files don't seem to be corrupt. but it crashes way more than i'd expect for a program that actually shipped.

[macStuff]

clearly this version is dated May 9th 1989
but the screenshots are by a guy using it on a modern g3/g4 running OS 9.22 i believe

perhaps its possible that it was hacked/modified in some way to run on more modern systems? thus breaking its proper functioning on the older classic macs? thats just a theory put forward by me to explain what you are experiencing but unconfirmed.
as most people familair with vision know -- it featured copyright protection by way of master floppy disk so thats why im leaning towards thinking that this is not "vanilla" and has been modified to avoid the copyright check somehow, unless nick used a usb floppy enabler + had a key disk? not sure.. scratch that. just rememebered it doesnt even work with a usb floppy, u have to use a real mac with a built in floppy drive to authorize vision properly with a diskettte. sorry its been awhile im rusty on my facts here.

for a guideline to timeline questions of versions you can visit this post made by me:
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php/topic,2519.0.html

did u install oms ?
try this old version: http://oldschooldaw.com/opcode/_OMS/1.1.3/

[GaryN]

…but i'm having quite a few crashes on system7.1 and system6.08, and system 6.0.4(the version in the mac classic boot ROM) mostly with unimplemented trap errors(which normally indicate a wrong os version)

…it crashes way more than i'd expect for a program that actually shipped.

I actually ran Vision on a Plus but it was so long ago I can barely remember. I DO remember using it with 6.08 and by the time i went to 7, I had received updates. I don't think those were absolutely necessary to use System 7 though.

What's more likely and as MacStuff indicated, is a failure to integrate with OMS. It is important now but was critical then to have all of the files in exactly the right places. Because of the typically tiny amounts of memory found in the mini-Macs of the day, the app didn't store any more than absolutely necessary in RAM - preferring to leave it available for sequence data. Vision was made to run all day long on a 512 - and did. So, it would do lookups of stuff as needed. That's probably why it crashes on you sometimes and not others - it depends on exactly what you're doing and whether what it's looking for is found.

Now, do I remember exactly what went exactly where in which folders? Hell no. I hope you have the doc to tell you that, or at least MacStuff does ('cause if ANYbody does, he does). It's not in the manual. Things were supposed to install themselves properly - There was a "ReadMe" on or with those floppies to specify what went where however.

If this doesn't help, take notes about exactly where and where the app crashes and exactly what you clicked etc. that caused it. Maybe that will trigger something in the far back regions of my remaining grey matter…

[macStuff]

i got an original Vision binder that was given to me sittin here; and a bunch of floppy master isntall disks aswell;
also have an original Macintosh Midi Interface (1in 1out)

[motosega]

yes, it seems really weird to see it woring in OS9 but not in system 6 or 7, i suppose i could try loading system 7.5.5 on my classic... i have the maximum 4mb of ram installed, might as well use it for something..

does this version of Vision really need OMS? did OMS even exist in 1989? i'll try installing OMS and see what happens, that would make sense though, since "unimplemented trap" means it was looking for some code which was not available.

[motosega]

i got an original Vision binder that was given to me sittin here; and a bunch of floppy master isntall disks aswell;
also have an original Macintosh Midi Interface (1in 1out)

wow,
what versions do you have?

if i get this running properly i'd love a copy of that manual.....

[motosega]

 

yesterday i tried again with oms 1.1.3.

still the same problem, program appears to work, but upon opening certain windows, it crashes with an unimplemented trap.

i'd really like to get a version of vision working on this old Mac Classic. i already have cubase running but i really want to try out Vision, the sequence workflow looks great.

[macStuff]

what windows opening crashes it?
which specific version of os are u using now?
i have little to no experience with os 6 so i cant really offer much help

sorry my manual is not for sale; it was a gift that im glad to have; from someone who appreciated my effort
in helping the community; you could try to locate one yourslef tho they are out there
or i could look into getting it scanned into a pdf if its not available already

[GaryN]

yesterday i tried again with oms 1.1.3.

still the same problem, program appears to work, but upon opening certain windows, it crashes with an unimplemented trap.

As I said before, specificity would help. "appears to work, but upon opening certain unnamed windows it crashes…"

[macStuff]

do you even have a midi interface setup + working before u load the app?

[motosega]

ok, i'll try to be more specific, sorry for the less than detailed explanation, i assumed the answer would be something simple i had overlooked, like a missing file, it's been a while since i used a classic mac.
thanks for your patience!

vision opens and i can open a sequence, then open the piano roll editor, but if i click the button with the note on it, or the "vortex"button,  vision crashes with an unimplemented trap error. and i return to the desktop and the mac remains stable.
this also happens with a load of other buttons, in other windows.

i have a midi interface, (midiman macman, which is a regular 1 in 1 out mac interface.) the out Led flashes as expected when i try to send midi notes but i haven't actually got it connected to a synth at the moment, i wanted to get it running before installing it in the studio. i have about 20 synths and samplers, and a stack of opcode studio midi intefaces used as patchbays
re organising the studio is a lot of work.

os is system 7.1 and i have 4 mb ram (about this macintosh shows 3,032k free)

as for the manual, a pdf would be fantastic but if i can't get it working then it's kind of pointless convincing you to scan it.(google turns up nothing so far)

[GaryN]

ok, i'll try to be more specific, sorry for the less than detailed explanation, i assumed the answer would be something simple i had overlooked, like a missing file, it's been a while since i used a classic mac.
thanks for your patience!

You're welcome!

vision opens and i can open a sequence, then open the piano roll editor, but if i click the button with the note on it, or the "vortex"button,  vision crashes with an unimplemented trap error. and i return to the desktop and the mac remains stable.
this also happens with a load of other buttons, in other windows.

Clicking on all different buttons causes the same error = Something incorrect, unstable or conflicted in the Mac OS……probably
(Gads this is hard to remember…) Vision originally depended on the OS for timing and associated math computations and all kinds of other stuff.
You need to verify that you have the proper extensions enabled for the System version you're trying…correct versions - no leftover Quicktime from 6.08 running in 7.1 when there should be and would be (if freshly installed) a later revision and stuff like that.

I can not help you there but this info is findable.

That said, it's just as likely there's an extension conflict - the fix for that is a pain - starting with NO extensions and adding them in until the issue rears its ugly little head again, then figuring out why that one is either bad or clashing with another - remember this is early software

I have a midi interface, (midiman macman, which is a regular 1 in 1 out mac interface.) the out Led flashes as expected when i try to send midi notes but i haven't actually got it connected to a synth at the moment, i wanted to get it running before installing it in the studio. i have about 20 synths and samplers, and a stack of opcode studio midi intefaces used as patchbays
re organising the studio is a lot of work.

After reading THIS part, I wouldn't be much of an advisor if I didn't point out that with a roomful of synths and interfaces, the logical thing for you to do is to get a G3 or G4 that will run OS9 and get StudioVision Pro and Galaxy and later OMS (which will talk to ALL of your your Opcode interfaces) and integrate it all together.

I cannot comprehend why on Earth you are trying to run Vision 1……OK, so it's 1.02, THAT'S STILL VERSION ONE!!!
The Opcode guys were really good but version ONE of ANYthing is buggy.
Let's add it up:

Vision ONE
OMS ONE
System SEVEN…on a
RETRO Mac
NO manuals
Almost NO good info about early MIDI issues and conflict and bugs online anymore

You're making it all much more difficult than it has to be. I absolutely guarantee, as fast as you sort the trap error out, another issue will pop up and another after that and on and on until you finally scream, buy a PPC Mac and move to later software and hardware where the basics of MIDI were finally sorted out.
If you have 20 synths and samplers, a PPC Mac is pocket change in comparison.

Seriously, I think you should stop and re-evaluate your overall concept here.

[hageir]

LOL that took a quick turn, I'm looking for Opcode Vision 2.08 or 2.5 (NON-Studio; i.e. no audio support. Just straight up MIDI)
I've found so many Opcode Studio files, have to scrounge through the bunch. Also working on other things (FireWire MIDI Interface in Tiger working with Classic Mode ≈ + Basilisk and SheepShaver + MIDI IN/OUT, there must be a way to obtain a solid system -since this 15" PowerBook 1.67 G4 has AGP graphics I'm currently looking into ROMs for SheepShaver that support that? -minimizing discrepancies)

Anyways, still haven't bumped into Dr. T's port of KCS Omega for the Mac nor the Yamaha C1 Music Computer - still looking though.

I have another PowerBook 165C, just need to get a SCSI2SD for it, that will run 7.5.3 natively + OMS and all that jazz'

Keep on trucking new guy!

[GaryN]

LOL that took a quick turn, I'm looking for Opcode Vision 2.08 or 2.5 (NON-Studio; i.e. no audio support. Just straight up MIDI)

Good luck with that. The biggest problem with those old versions is they were on copy-protected floppies that enabled TWO valid installs. Those invariably were lost in HDD crashes and such. So, if you can actually find a genuine Opcode floppy, you can run the app but copies and clones etc usually do NOT work.

[motosega]

I cannot comprehend why on Earth you are trying to run Vision 1

let me explain...

i am fully aware that this is a silly idea,  i found this mac classic broken at a fleamarket and replaced its capacitors to get it working, it already runs cubase and passport alchemy, (for my ensoniq mirage sampler)

it's not because i don't have a sequencer, i have 3 hardware sequencers in the studio, an akai mpc, an arturia beatstep pro and an alesis mmt8, and some computer based sequencers too :a windows 98 lapatop running Studio Vision, and an amiga 500 with octamed.

i like doing things like this, i do things like reprogram the PCM Rom chips of my drum machines, make midi processors with arduino and things of that nature. my day job is Programming computer games.

in other words, doing things wrong is my hobby.

Vision 1 is technically a version 2 software, since it's based on MidiMac.  but you are totally right about software from this era being a nightmare to get working.

i think i'll try again with  fresh install of system 6 and a clean extensions folder, then probably call it a day. Cubase runs fine.

[macStuff]

motosega i might be able to hook you up with a floppy disk install of v1.4
let me check to see how many i have

in the meantime, theres plenty of other versions of vision that you can try to install other than 1.0
have u tried any other versions?

have u tried installing v3.06?
http://www.oldschooldaw.com/forums/index.php?topic=2632.0
http://web.archive.org/web/19961113040714/http://www.opcode.com/products/visionmac/
are u able to update to system 7 or would that break your other apps
3.06 is gonna require oms in the 2.x flavour though.. i should have posted it along with the other files i guess

[motosega]

thanks for the offer of a disk of 1.4 if you have a spare one i'd be really grateful.

there probably is some way of copying these disks by now.
i'll look into this

unfortunately vision 3.0 needs a 68030 cpu and a 32bit clean rom. the mac classic only has a 68000.

as far as i can tell it's only  vision 1.x  that will run on a 68000 with only 4 mb ram.

[GaryN]

i am fully aware that this is a silly idea, 

in other words, doing things wrong is my hobby.

Well……finally it all starts to make sense!

So maybe now we're at the place where we need yet another new category for postings titled "Wannabe Dr. Frankensteins" or "Cybermasochism".

OR maybe just an entire "Experimental" division for this and the endless exchanges by the hacker / programmer artistes that reside here.

Don't misunderstand, my feeling is "more power to ya". I just would have very much appreciated a little more insight into your reasoning before I spent so much time trying understand why any musician would burn so much time trying to drag something so primitive and trouble-prone into the present.